[RATM] Grumpy_Shark Players 300 posts 22,938 battles Report post #1 Posted February 5, 2019 After patch most premium ships AA is pathetic. Especialy Arizona's is almost non existend. At least make it equal to New Mexico. De Grasse too has non existend AA. Before patch it wasn't so bad. So please fix. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAN0] HaachamaShipping Players 8,474 posts 10,052 battles Report post #2 Posted February 5, 2019 Arizona never had good AA. Why expect it to now have good AA? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TORAZ] El2aZeR Beta Tester 15,786 posts 26,801 battles Report post #3 Posted February 5, 2019 If anything the new AA system could be seen as a buff for low AA ships. If the enemy CV is dumb and doesn't evade flak you can farm far more plane kills than you could previously. Meanwhile if the enemy CV evades flak it doesn't really change anything compared to before. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bortasqu Beta Tester 939 posts 14,845 battles Report post #4 Posted February 5, 2019 Texas would like a word with you. 3.5km AA zone yo. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferry_25 Players 4,392 posts 12,107 battles Report post #5 Posted February 5, 2019 Errr OK. Being a strong advocate to the "CV please P*ss off" faction I still need to react on this. Arizona has always been a sucker with AA. Don't know really about De Grasse. For me it's a "meh" ship. Not shining nor sucking in anything (MY POV, not meaning it is a fact). So in pre 8.0 I knew I was in trouble with a CV match with Arizona. Disregarding the fact pre 8.0 CV matches were already decided in the match making before the match even started. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NOCIT] EgyptOverseer Players 650 posts 6,924 battles Report post #6 Posted February 5, 2019 Having a lot of De Grasse Battles as my sole premium ship for credit farming for a while, I can say confidently that nerfing De Grasse AA is a mute point. Still remember the many times taking DefAA a full action time to take down a single RTS T5 IJN plane. It never had an effective AA and the DefAA was solely to spread drops. Also, AA talk is sort of redundant at the moment, because it's perhaps the most broken part of the whole update. It literally makes no sense how they deployed the concept. Side reinforcement has no impact on planes that can go to the non buffed side and drop before you can even switch. Then you have the non-sensical part of the highest damage guns deploying flak that follows pre-determined predicted paths instead of a chance to burst in front of a selection of optional paths (totally fine to have bot ships know the exact hit spot of your torps from the moment you launch, but God forbid having flak that is an actual threat to a CV player that doesn't even once alter the heading of the planes). And to top it all off, the weakest guns are the ones that do continuous damage, whilst still insufficient to take down same tier or above plane HP. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RATM] Grumpy_Shark Players 300 posts 22,938 battles Report post #7 Posted February 5, 2019 Arizona was slightly weaker than New Mexico and De Grasse was like Furutaka but after the changes seem much worse on AA department. They were never good in AA but now they got even worse. On the other hand take a look at Queen Elizabeth that after the update is an absolute AA monster now... Doesn't make sense. I didn't say make Arizona a champ of AA defense. Just fix them as they were before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BUSHI] Odo_Toothless Players 5,402 posts 24,784 battles Report post #8 Posted February 5, 2019 32 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said: De Grasse AA(...)never had an effective AA and the DefAA was solely to spread drops. De Grasse with AA range module + manual AA +consumable active + flag (no AFT becouse IFHE and CE) had very competitive AA about 2000 points (sum of all ranges x DPS) when for example very good AA VIII tier ship - Gneisenau with the same setup without (def AA of course) had 2380. For exaple IX tier BB Jean Bart with impressive AA without any skills and modules have 2080 rating. In both cases VII tier CV planes was decimated. But - yes, without manual AA (AFT instead), DeGrasse was poor AA ship with only max 1200 points of AA and fully maxed for AA Arizona had 1150 (but who did such build for still weak AA ?) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[501L] DrMechano Players 381 posts 4,327 battles Report post #9 Posted February 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, pali_tz1f0s said: Arizona was slightly weaker than New Mexico and De Grasse was like Furutaka but after the changes seem much worse on AA department. They were never good in AA but now they got even worse. On the other hand take a look at Queen Elizabeth that after the update is an absolute AA monster now... Doesn't make sense. I didn't say make Arizona a champ of AA defense. Just fix them as they were before. With an AA specced captain the Queen Liz was ALWAYS an AA monster. She has the highest AA rating of a tier 6 BB and can even rival tier 8 BBs for the amount of damage she could put out if fully AA specced with ManAA. Done it myself once and a tier 6 carrier decided to try their luck with all their waves...which they lost. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RATM] Grumpy_Shark Players 300 posts 22,938 battles Report post #10 Posted February 5, 2019 I don't know. My initial impression after patch was as if those ships they forgot to update them or something. Example with De Grasse i always had AA consumable and it was doing okish, and on Arizona i had points to spare for Advanced Firing Training since the captain was from my Montana. In Arizona although having weak AA i never had any particular problem with CV's of similar tier and on De Grasse with the AA consumable i could survive most attacks or at least make the enemy CV think twice about attacking me again. Now it feels as if i am completely defencless. Bah in any case i don't care so much i have other ships to play. It just feels now as money gone down the drain although Arizona has given me great moments and is very pretty and i wouldn't exchange it for doublons even now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #11 Posted February 6, 2019 16 hours ago, Sturmtiger_304 said: Texas would like a word with you. 3.5km AA zone yo. Before this revork - yes, not so sure it will help you much now at least not against a competent cv ok remains to see the effects of upcoming "hotfix" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panocek Players 13,176 posts 13,617 battles Report post #12 Posted February 6, 2019 Da Grasso gains A LOT from AA mod1, as she have TWO long range auras, thus with modest investment of 500k credits you go from 2 flak bursts to 6. Atlanta with the same upgrade have 7 bursts on her long range 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,199 battles Report post #13 Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Yedwy said: Before this revork - yes, not so sure it will help you much now at least not against a competent cv ok remains to see the effects of upcoming "hotfix" Better be sure. Texas is still 'killer'. You do lots of damage but you do not shoot any (CV players press F very quickly...). I have Texas and in a T7 game (T6 CVs, double!) I managed to get into enemy base... OK then I died, the whole team came attacking me. But it was me and a KGV moving in together, we took out one CV, 3 cruisers and later I managed to kill 2BBs as well. If he hadn;t gone too fast (and stayed under my AA) the 2nd CV would maybe not have got him.... we won, of course. T5 slow US BB crowning top of the winning pile. I have only Langley CV so far... but I'll stay clear of Texas at least 7km... attacked one with rockets (fastest), manoeuvered like a nut, still Texas shot down ALL planes even before I could pull the first load of rockets..! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #14 Posted February 6, 2019 Oh ill make sure I try it out 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THESO] asalonen Privateer 791 posts 15,219 battles Report post #15 Posted February 6, 2019 30 minutes ago, Panocek said: Da Grasso gains A LOT from AA mod1, as she have TWO long range auras, thus with modest investment of 500k credits you go from 2 flak bursts to 6. Atlanta with the same upgrade have 7 bursts on her long range I bought the Grasse just after the release of 0.8.0, and my experience has been that the AA does jack *hit. Since I didn't play it before 0.8.0, I can't compare before and after. I've been running BFT and AA Mod 1 since the first battle, and usually the signal as well, and I'm averaging 1.65 planes shot down over 20 battles. Every game has had one or two carriers. More often than not the defensive AA fails to down anything. The dude is my Terrible skipper so he's not getting AFT or Manual AA (which feels worthless anyway right now), no matter how much he wants it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #16 Posted February 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, Panocek said: Da Grasso gains A LOT from AA mod1, as she have TWO long range auras, thus with modest investment of 500k credits you go from 2 flak bursts to 6. Atlanta with the same upgrade have 7 bursts on her long range Wait I though only one aura is active at any given moment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,199 battles Report post #17 Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Yedwy said: Oh ill make sure I try it out Try out Hood and Sims while you're at it... Spoiler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #18 Posted February 6, 2019 Just now, BLUB__BLUB said: Try out Hood and Sims while you're at it... Reveal hidden contents I ll try hood no worries its sheduled, got it already kitted with modules just didnt come around to taking it out just yet. Sims? Naah i took out kidd the other day it was quite underwhealming 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,199 battles Report post #19 Posted February 6, 2019 Just now, Yedwy said: I ll try hood no worries its sheduled, got it already kitted with modules just didnt come around to taking it out just yet. Sims? Naah i took out kidd the other day it was quite underwhealming Might be because in Kidd you're 100% sure fighting T10CV. I think currently anything without nukes is underwhelming there. Maybe try same we did with Hood/Sims division: spot CV and then nail it with BB AP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #20 Posted February 6, 2019 Nope it wasnt t10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAN0] HaachamaShipping Players 8,474 posts 10,052 battles Report post #21 Posted February 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said: Try out Hood and Sims while you're at it... Reveal hidden contents How cute... Spoiler And then you have to keep in mind that even still, the CVs barely felt the impact... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,199 battles Report post #22 Posted February 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Yedwy said: Nope it wasnt t10 So far I didn't find the T8CVs that bad though. Could be they avoided me because there was easier prey...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,199 battles Report post #23 Posted February 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Seiranko said: How cute... Reveal hidden contents And then you have to keep in mind that even still, the CVs barely felt the impact... Good job! But I see at least one CV there that would have liked to be top of the pile, but didn't make it. I bet they felt the impact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAN0] HaachamaShipping Players 8,474 posts 10,052 battles Report post #24 Posted February 6, 2019 1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said: Good job! But I see at least one CV there that would have liked to be top of the pile, but didn't make it. I bet they felt the impact. Not really. In both cases they still got respectable results. If you lost that many aircraft in RTS CV games, you'd basically be deplaned and at the bottom of the scoreboard. The most I managed to accomplish is temporarily force them to switch to aircraft they were a bit less useful with against their preferred target, but overall, shutting down an aircraft carrier that isn't absolute garbage is nigh-impossible and as Minotaur, getting permaspotted by planes naturally reduced my performance drastically and in the end got me killed. It's absolutely retarded that in the best AA platform the game currently offers, I basically can still farm aircraft, but it's empty damage, because while my gameplay very much gets shut down, the CV gameplay does not and my smoke + hydro suddenly turns from tools to get damage and hunt DDs to survivability tools to break vision with BBs that target my plane-spotted ship and early warning to avoid getting deleted in my smoke by Hakuryu torps. Back in RTS, the CV did not risk their ship, but they risked their entire strike capability temporarily if a strike got shot down and needed minutes to recover and regroup, or entirely, if they got deplaned. Now they mostly risk momentary inconvenience. But the ships at the receiving end still get existentially threatened by the plane ordnance and the spotting. It's a far less even situation and unless the hotfix is really drastic in how many planes get downed (to the point of threatening the playability of CVs), there's nothing I see they'd do to address this issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BBMM] BLUB__BLUB [BBMM] Players 8,818 posts 17,199 battles Report post #25 Posted February 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Seiranko said: Not really. In both cases they still got respectable results. If you lost that many aircraft in RTS CV games, you'd basically be deplaned and at the bottom of the scoreboard. The most I managed to accomplish is temporarily force them to switch to aircraft they were a bit less useful with against their preferred target, but overall, shutting down an aircraft carrier that isn't absolute garbage is nigh-impossible and as Minotaur, getting permaspotted by planes naturally reduced my performance drastically and in the end got me killed. It's absolutely retarded that in the best AA platform the game currently offers, I basically can still farm aircraft, but it's empty damage, because while my gameplay very much gets shut down, the CV gameplay does not and my smoke + hydro suddenly turns from tools to get damage and hunt DDs to survivability tools to break vision with BBs that target my plane-spotted ship and early warning to avoid getting deleted in my smoke by Hakuryu torps. Back in RTS, the CV did not risk their ship, but they risked their entire strike capability temporarily if a strike got shot down and needed minutes to recover and regroup, or entirely, if they got deplaned. Now they mostly risk momentary inconvenience. But the ships at the receiving end still get existentially threatened by the plane ordnance and the spotting. It's a far less even situation and unless the hotfix is really drastic in how many planes get downed (to the point of threatening the playability of CVs), there's nothing I see they'd do to address this issue. The main issue in this is the plane speed in higher tiers. They should NERFBAT that first, so the AA can actually work. As long as that isn't done, it will stay broken. Still, you actually managed to get them 'down to decent'. I did too, and I never managed to do that in the RTS version. Respectable score yes. But the only way you get hem DOWN is to actually kill ém. WHich is do-able, at least in the lower tiers. (a bit too easy IMO on Langley... man it's slow...). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
