Giulio Cesare to be changed to T6.

[ForlornSailor]

10 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Also: Do you think it is normal that you have about the same average damage in GC that you have in KGV and DoY, both tier VII ships?

 

Well, I also have the same damage with Haruna. Granted, played her only once, but still managed to pinpoint my ~60k.

KGV - I had tons of roflstomp wins in the first games, where I wasnt needed at all, because my team pretty much took the win, thus giving me a high winrate + rather low damage. Also, please keep in mind, that Ive played the KGV stock and during some games, I lacked the ranged to get some more damage. I know, im expecting you to take my word for it on that case, but thats my recent / 21 days in KGV however:

 

 

Oh yea: and buff DoY please ;) I love that ship but the longer reload compared to KGV isnt fair.

 

19 minutes ago, MrConway said:

My take-away from this is that we should nerf Orion, holy crap. ;)

 

Hands off muh waifu ;)

[Balin333]

Mr Conway if notser or ichase review GC at lvl 6 and tell us its meh or just another tier 6 will you be happy? and do you think all the people who payed money for it originaly would still do so?

[MrConway]

1 minute ago, Allied_Winter said:

WG sold her that way so... if you give me means to do so, why shouldn't I use them. I mean ... who's a fault here? He who sells broken products? Or he who uses broken products.

 

In all fairness, it may be a bit of both.

 

 

But ok, you (as in WG) want to rectify a mistake. I can understand that ... but neither do I want (yet another) T6 BB NOR do I want/need dubloons as they've become mostly useless by now. Nothing to spend them on. 

 

And while I'd love to get a cash refund IF this change goes through, I can see that it'd be very difficult for WG to do that. 

 

 

So ... what to do? I'm still brainstorming on that one.

 

 

Quote

WG sold her that way so... if you give me means to do so, why shouldn't I use them. I mean ... who's a fault here? He who sells broken products? Or he who uses broken products.

 

I'm not blaming him, just pointing out that his stats support what we are doing :)

 

Quote

But ok, you (as in WG) want to rectify a mistake. I can understand that ... but neither do I want (yet another) T6 BB NOR do I want/need dubloons as they've become mostly useless by now. Nothing to spend them on. 

 

This is something we are aware of (lack of things to spend doubloons on) and have started addressing by adding more items to the arsenal that are available for doubloons, like the Lunar bundles. This is something we are planning to expand on in future which should help alleviate your issue.

 

Quote

And while I'd love to get a cash refund IF this change goes through, I can see that it'd be very difficult for WG to do that. 

 

Yes, even if we decided to go down that route it would be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to pull off logistically.

[MrConway]

3 minutes ago, Winged_Cat_Dormant said:

Why is it an upgrade when you have to face T8 BBs??? 

It is a downgrade!

 

 

More XP gain, more credit gain, more damage potential.

 

If she needs some love (apart from the changes already talked about) then we can give her some more love to make her fun tier 6 ship.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

2 minutes ago, MrConway said:

And I would certainly hope it sets a precedent by which we can start addressing other problematic ships - but this remains to be seen.

 

As someone who has pretty much all of the premium ships, let me give you an honest feedback though:

 

The thought that a premium ship could be removed from sale, but will stay as it was for you to keep, is an important factor for "collectors"/"whales", that should not be underestimated. 

[Tekay85]

2 hours ago, MrConway said:

And if this change, that is still in TESTING, actually happens, you might end up with a tier 6 premium BB. 

 

What is the point if i have enough T6 Ships and bougth the Gulio explicit as t5 ship to have an t5 BB?

[cuddlesRO]

19 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

how to get me to never ever buy something in this game again......

Pretty much.

 

This game is an ongoing experiment with  an extremely volatile environment , it makes no sense to spend money into.  It's an amazing business model. Imagine you sped 50 EUR on a steam game you'd probably play for years and where the gameplay will remain mostly the same and you will have ~ the same joy. 

 

Now imagine spending 50 EUR in WoWS and your ship gets nerfed one year later or suffers from power creep. Stop spending money in this retarded environment until either management understand why consistency is important  or they go bankrupt and remain the same [edited] as before.

[von_chom]

14 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Those that got GC could (if it happens) be getting an upgrade to a tier VI ship or the doubloons back if they don't like this.

if someone bought the ship with money, you should return money

you cannot talk WG out of this

[Allied_Winter]

3 minutes ago, MrConway said:

like the Lunar bundles. This is something we are planning to expand on in future which should help alleviate your issue.

You know my stance on the lunar bundles, but I keep my hopes up, that there will be something fun and usefull in the future to spend dubloons on.

 

And since I try to be more reasonable and less emotional on the topic, I'll leave it at that.

[Verblonde]

20 minutes ago, MrConway said:

be getting an upgrade to a tier VI ship or the doubloons back if they don't like this.

Personally, I wouldn't mind magically getting a T6 GC, where I had a T5 before, *provided the new incarnation doesn't suck* (compare the T6-T8 move for Cleveland). Then again, I only bought GC because she looks pretty (and is historical), rather than because she was good - I suck in almost all BBs, OP or not.

 

That said, this insistence on offering doubloons refunds is asking for trouble - you have to acknowledge that doubloons are much less valuable than they once were (especially for longer-term players), and even more especially now that a key thing to spend them on - premium ships - is (potentially) no longer going to remain largely unchanged in the future, if the precedent is set with GC. Besides annoying people (never a good look, especially right after turning their favourite game upside down), you've made any premium ship purchase a lot riskier - not only are they liable to significant change, but you get a less valuable thing back if you don't like the change.

 

The precedent that changing GC *and not offering real money refunds* sets is that any premium ship you buy (for, objectively, a lot of money for what it is) may well offer far poorer value than it might currently. Let's say I play the game for another two years; thirty pounds (or whatever) for something that will last those two years sounds a lot less stupid than the same amount for something that may get messed with in six months...

[SlingaDing]

If this happens I will be demanding a CASH refund, I bought shed loads of Santa crates purely to get the ‘OP’ ships, I have no need for doubloons nor do I want them, I WILL want my money back!

you cannot start adjusting premium ships that people have purchased with real money, that is bang out of order!

[quickr]

I'm trying to write a reply to MrConway, but I just can't find the words without using sarcasm and insults.

This is wrong on so many levels and it's blowing my mind that WG doesn't see anything wrong going thru with this.

It has nothing to do with balancing. It's a precedent that shouldn't be happening and timing for it is perfect.

[Redcap375]

27 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

It's not really right to throw the responsibility onto paying customers 

 

People will buy and use what gives them the best experience.

 

 Whilst it isn't your fault personally, it's pretty bad of WG to sell GC for so long which has allowed many to use and enjoy the ship.

 

If the changes do come it sets a very bad presidence as no Prem ship is safe from changes unless you're going to offer cash refunds which I'd dearly like for my 3 Prem CVs.

 

This ^^

 

You do this @MrConway and there is no going back.  The stigma will always be attached to premium ships and make people very weary of buying them. 

 

You wanna know how to fix it? DON'T BRING OP SHIPS OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE.  Or is your testing team short of staff?

 

Every man and his dog said the Belfast was OP before it even came out! This trend has continued. 

 

Here endeth the lesson.

 

From this day forward, don't bring out OP ships.  All is good in the world again. 

 

23 minutes ago, MrConway said:

And I am sure that all of the owners of any premium ships would be very unhappy if they could no longer use them in ranked battles, ignoring the fact that this would not help the situation in random battles.

 

Like not being able to use CV's in CB.  Oh the irony. 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

31 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

Correct, which is why we also look at the ship's performance relative to that player base.

 

If we can then see that the players are all performing much better in GC than they do in similar ships we can tell that there is an issue.

Was there ever a doubt that GC was... superior... when compared to its peers?  It was sold, knowingly by WG, as a superior ship.  How superior is of course debatable.

 

Many have pointed out the selling ships that are clearly superior, is in their opinion, pay to win; and for the most part the player base oppose this. Isn't the real issue/fault WGs; so, why is it the customers Burden To Bare on this problem?

 

WG sold a near OP ship to customers, then changed its mind, is taking that item away, while keeping the money.  Why not refund the money and allow the customer to decide if they want the T6 version?

[Zen71_sniper]

1 hour ago, MrConway said:

 

Given how much she is overperforming we would have to nerf her quite significantly to balance her properly at tier 5, which would probably make her feel quite different.

 

We feel a more elegant and player-friendly approach is to buff/balance her on tier 6 where she will still be just as fun to play.

Dear @@MrConway

 

I think you are missing the point, it is not about if the ship is overperforming or not. It is about trust. We have trusted you that we are buying a product according to certain specification, as advertised. If you do this, trust is broken. WHY would anyone buy a premium if you know that it can change at a whim.

 

Not to mention questionable practice: WG knew that GC is OP, then you sell it, then to create rarity - remove it from shop, then ADVERTISE it as a special premium that can be won in Santa containers, just to be nerfed two months later.

 

All I am saying, I think you guys are playing with the fire - my advice is - don't. You will break the trust on which any good business relationship is based.

 

 

 

 

[Tyrendian89]

out of curiosity, would everyone's reaction to this change significantly if WG were to offer exchanging the ship in question not just for (useless) dubloons, but for a same-tier Premium of the player's choice? iirc Tanks did something relatively similar recently with their Preferential Matchmaking premiums, so on a much much larger scale than just the one ship at a time we're talking here...

 

Now, that selection of ships would have to be good of course - not just the few ships available in the tech tree, but probably every (non-exclusive? Wouldn't want everyone to swap out their GCs for the arguably MUUUUCH MUCH worse Gremlin...) premium WG ever released at that tier...

[TheAlba2014]

Friendly question MrConway, this topic has certainly distracted from the CV rework, but given that the adjustment to that is ongoing how can you possibly change the GC under the current conditions? I'd assume any changes won't be happening until you've assessed the outcome of patch 0.8.0 and any subsequent updates to fix issues from that patch?

 

As I've said before I don't believe making changes to GC is good business practice and sets a bad precedent. It's a matter of trust

[Allied_Winter]

2 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

out of curiosity, would everyone's reaction to this change significantly if WG were to offer exchanging the ship in question not just for (useless) dubloons, but for a same-tier Premium of the player's choice?

Personally? No, since there's nothing interesting on T5 for me.

 

In fact, there's currently no other premium that is of interest to me. MAYBE the Exeter. BUT: If they bring that thing into the game as OP as she's now, ... well ... talking about fuel to the fire. IF they readjust her pre release to more reasonable T5 levels: No more interest on my end.

[Verblonde]

11 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

out of curiosity, would everyone's reaction to this change significantly if WG were to offer exchanging the ship in question not just for (useless) dubloons, but for a same-tier Premium of the player's choice? iirc Tanks did something relatively similar recently with their Preferential Matchmaking premiums, so on a much much larger scale than just the one ship at a time we're talking here...

In my case, my reaction would be the same, for the rather dull reason that I have all the premium ships (well, excluding a couple of Kami variants, and the beta test ones) already.

Like I said earlier, I don't mind the idea of a T6 GC, but that's just me; as someone who 'does' customer service for a living, I'm pretty confident that doubloons-only refunds in this context would be what is technically known as a major bollock-drop...

 

Edit: if you're going to offer people alternatives (rather than real money) in a situation like this, you basically have bribe them heroically to make the problem go away. e.g. five times the doubloon value, enough steel to buy a discounted Flint, any premium ship up to and including T8 (say) - that sort of magnitude (and preferably more than one option). By doing so, you reassure the customers that they will be taken care of *properly* if the same thing happens again (Kami, Belfast etc.), and restore trust - in most cases - that buying a premium isn't a completely stupid decision.

[Karl_567]

Vor 1 Stunde, MrConway sagte:

 

Given how much she is overperforming we would have to nerf her quite significantly to balance her properly at tier 5, which would probably make her feel quite different.

 

We feel a more elegant and player-friendly approach is to buff/balance her on tier 6 where she will still be just as fun to play.

 

Playing the GC against T7 is not that much of fun, especially when meeting 406mm guns. And there are even more 406mm guns at T8.

 

Suggestion: Just pull the GC from sale like you did it with Belfast, Kutuzov and Nikolai. And we old loyal customers, who payed REAL money (not dubloons) for the GC, stay happy while taking her out for a ride from time to time in T5. Power creep will take care of the rest over time. When the russian BBs are released, nobody will talk about GC any longer.

 

Promised.

 

Cheers

 

Karl

[Redcap375]

3 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Personally? No, since there's nothing interesting on T5 for me.

 

In fact, there's currently no other premium that is of interest to me. MAYBE the Exeter. BUT: If they bring that thing into the game as OP as she's now, ... well ... talking about fuel to the fire. IF they readjust her pre release to more reasonable T5 levels: No more interest on my end.

 

P...R..E..C...I...S...E...L...Y

 

[Aragathor]

@MrConwayaddresing the lack of doubloon "sinks", why aren't there any permanent camos T5 and down?

As a collector and fan of WWI ships I'm just disappointed that I can't get any for my doubloons. I play mostly in coop with them and I just don't seen any reason, not to have a spiffy permanent camo on a ship like Wyoming or Karlsruhe.

[Tyrendian89]

6 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Personally? No, since there's nothing interesting on T5 for me.

 

In fact, there's currently no other premium that is of interest to me. MAYBE the Exeter. BUT: If they bring that thing into the game as OP as she's now, ... well ... talking about fuel to the fire. IF they readjust her pre release to more reasonable T5 levels: No more interest on my end.

yeah not a solution to everyone - some of us (me kinda included) have all they want at a certain tier... but would you at least feel better if that was the practice and the precedent they set for the future, even if you wouldn't get excited about it this specific time? For me that'd be the case...

And the second part - well that's a whole different but related problem isn't it? We're so jaded about overpowered premiums that we expect them and dont even care about balanced ships anymore...

[BanzaiPiluso]

19 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

More XP gain, more credit gain, more damage potential.

 

If she needs some love (apart from the changes already talked about) then we can give her some more love to make her fun tier 6 ship.

If she survives T8 encounters, of course. Otherwise this reframing speech technique is just sales talk to hide what is going to happen, GC is being made a mediocre ship in a tier where she can't disturb new players.

 

But enough of this, too much energy, I can only hope my other Italian ships are not changed into something worse.

 

[Redcap375]

Just now, Karl_567 said:

 

Playing the GC against T7 is not that much of fun, especially when meeting 406mm guns. And there are even more 406mm guns at T8.

 

Suggestion: Just pull the GC from sale like you did it with Belfast, Kutuzov and Nikolai. And we old loyal customers, who payed REAL money (not dubloons) for the GC, stay happy while taking her out for a ride from time to time in T5. Power creep will take care of the rest over time. When the russian BBs are released, nobody will talk about GC any longer.

 

Promised.

 

You would have thought that would be the human touch wouldn't you.

 

However mate, that wouldn't make any money would it?