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valrond

CVs about to get nerfed to the ground (yay, rejoice all CV haters)

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[NKK]
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Well, this might be an unpopular opinion, but I had to say it. After the anouncement of the "hotfix", CVs will become nearly useless.

Yes, we have seen so many CV videos of the CC, which, btw, they play almost exclusively the Hakuryu or the Audacius, that is still unrelease. A few the Midway. None play the lower tier CVs. 

Do you know why? cause they suck. And they will suck even more.

If you don't believe me, try to do something in a Langley, Hosho, Ranger, Lexington, Shokaku or Enterprise. Saipan and Kaga aren't that bad, GZ held on quite well. Ryujo actually improved.

 
All I see here are nerfs for the CVs. Haku is a bit OP. Yes, a bit. I'll throw some cold, hard facts here. Stats from wows-number, damage rounded to the closest K.
Average damage before and after patch 8.0
Haku 95k-106k +11k
Midway 97k-77k -20k
Shokaku 56k-51k -5k
Lexington 54k-45k -9k
Enterprise 63k-50k -13k
GZ 69k-67k -2k
Ryujo 40k-44k +4k
Independence/Ranger 32k-32k 0K
Hosho 39k-23k -14k
Langley 27k-22k -5k
 
Kaga and Saipan don't count cause they were uptiered.
See that? All CVs went down in damage, some of them very significantly. Just 2 went up, the Haku with +11k, and the Ryujo with +4k. On average, damage is -4.3k for the cvs across the board, but some have been hit harder than others. Midway, Enterprise and Hosho are hit really, really hard.
 
Now a CV is not only less capable in terms of doing damage, but also spotting. Yes, DDs are crying, but it is only because now there are MORE cvs in games (nearly one in every game, sometimes two), and the planes have no cooldown from the start.
 
And what do we get? nerf the ijn torps, nerf the F button, buff the AAs
 
Non tier 10 CVs are already very hard to play, the AA just destroys your planes, doing more than ONE pass is just suicide, specially overtiered. But no mention to that whatsoever. Nope.
 
For reference, here are the ships of the same tier with most similar average damage:
Hosho- Svietlana
Langley-Svietlana
Ryujo-Dunkerque
Ranger-De Grasse
GZ-None. (Best in class, not counting Alabama ST)
Kaga-Massachussetts
Saipan-Richelieu
Shokaku-Asahio B/North Carolina
Enterprise - Kii
Lexington-Kutuzov
Hakuryu-Stalingrad
Midway-Zao
 
So, you see that in lower tiers, they are basically cruiser like damage, and in higher tiers, BB damage (well, except for the Midway), but without the tanking.
 
Might as well just remove all CVs from the game and be done with it.
 
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I don't think the damage is the whole story.

 

It's the crazy spotting and the way it's made the meta an ultra camp fest. But if the tweaks lower CV numbers then we might see a return to more active gameplay.

 

Maybe CVs being balanced are an impossibility? Either too strong and they ruin games or they're so weak that no one plays them? 

 

Give it time I guess...

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[SM0KE]
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Have those figures been adjusted at all to take into account who was playing them before/after?

 

Presumably, the before figure (almost by definition) has a rather higher proportion of competent players...

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I disagree

 

I ve been in lower tier games several times and you know....you measure here everything with damage counts.

But thats not the mainpoint.

 

First eveny CV player will need to adapt to the new patch. And im sure after time they have mastered the gameplay in such a way that the Overall outcome will be surprising to you. These are the first days of the patch! And when 2 Cv s show considerable improvement it says a lot!

 

Then we come to the other point. The damage they cause because of the spotting of DD s s  without being blown out of the sky. Especially DD s yes.  Btw  From the vids we learn they now even like to attack ships formerly known as reliable AA cruisers and of course DDs  which both have considerable lower HP pools than BBs ; which were in the older days their favourite slower targets. THis of course will result in lower DMG rates.

 

The picture you try to show is not correct and every one knows it. When the rest of the CV players are adapted with the nwe concept the havoc will be worse then we see even now.

 

have a good day; Im finished with this game for now

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[CATS]
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We do not know what they will do exactly. They should focus on the problematic ships.

Tier IV CV could even need some improvement.

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Sorry, but I think that the new cvs Do suck. It's fun to fly the planes around but I played a quick co-op battle before and hit with 9 torps. I still came almost bottom of the heap on my team and sank nothing. Whereas if I play any other ship type I do far better and have a more satisfying game. I think that there is more realism (except for not being able to issue orders to more than one air group) but at the expense of game play. I feel that I'm letting my team down every time I play cvs. I'm prepared to try again some time, but a it stands the new cvs are little better than a novelty option in the game. Such a shame too as I expect the team at WOW have put a lot of hours in programing and testing etc. I sense a further update coming soon...

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[NWP]
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The problem is, they can raise or lower the (damage) numbers the much they want and this won't fix exactly nothing apart perhaps making CV's so insignificant that nobody will be playing them anymore. They need to fix the fundamentals before going for fine tuning or balancing.

 

And even while not playing CVs extensively I can tell at least two key areas they need to touch: Spotting and AA mechanics.

 

The former is causing problems with classes that heavily rely on stealth (DD, CA), the later mostly with classes that need at least some degree of reliable self-defense from planes (CA, BB).

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At the same time, it took 2! days to break the world wide maximum damage, SEVERAL TIMES IN A ROW basicly. Ive seen 470k+ games, with the highest being 550k (!) And it could have been easily 600k with more practice.

Its not only about damage dealing with CVs.

 

50 minutes ago, valrond said:

Might as well just remove all CVs from the game and be done with it.

 

Thats something i agree with however.

This abomination called CVs can never be balanced (atleast i cant see how...).

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50 minutes ago, valrond said:

Kaga and Saipan don't count cause they were uptiered.

 

Rofl. First, you compare damages of old CVs vs new CVs, there you dont have a problem, now you say, its doesnt count cuz they were uptierd. Newsflash: There is exactly one similarity between old and new CVs: the name.

 

Ah you know what - not going to continue wasting to skim through your post. Just delete everything you wrote, you are embarrassing yourself. Especially the part in the headline about the "CV haters".

 

19 minutes ago, Demon_Destructor said:

I feel that I'm letting my team down every time I play cvs.

 

Then dont play them. They A) might not suite your or B) you havent figured them out.

 

19 minutes ago, Demon_Destructor said:

I still came almost bottom of the heap on my team and sank nothing.

 

Well, others rack up 400k to 550k damage and get constantly 4,5 or 6 kills. So it cant be the CV itself, then where do you think is the problem?

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I don't see the "planes' speed will be halved across the board" line in the patch notes, which kinda scares me, because if they don't do that, they won't fix much.

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People keep saying to remove cvs..
Why not remove dds! I HATE then whem im in a battleships! they can spot me! stealth torp! blah blah blah
See what I'm getting at? Most people seem to hate cvs because all of their "advatages" but you do understand in real life navel battles cvs where ment to spot the enemy? and relay it back to the allys? and also do damage?
Look I get it, a lot hate them, but they just need a bit of a balence tweek and you all need to get used to them and play the game how its ment to be played, not going off on your own and sailing to your death, group up, push otgether, be an effective team and learn that.

The time I've been playing, ive been seeing more of this, team work, sure they are camping, but its better then before where people would go out and solo camp and suicide.

Just give it time people, let wargaming balence cvs and let them try, stop throwing hate around untill they have at least tried as game dev.

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Safer just to remove them from the game.

 

CV's were always the square peg trying to fit in the round hole.

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[NKK]
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41 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

I don't think the damage is the whole story.

 

It's the crazy spotting and the way it's made the meta an ultra camp fest. But if the tweaks lower CV numbers then we might see a return to more active gameplay.

 

Maybe CVs being balanced are an impossibility? Either too strong and they ruin games or they're so weak that no one plays them? 

 

Give it time I guess...

What crazy spotting? Now if you want to spot, you can't attack, and vice versa. DDs think they have it bad cause now there are cvs in nearly every game, where before there weren't many, and attacking lone DDs is the only safe way to attack anything in a CV, specially uptiered.

 

As for the damage numbers, aren't those numbers what CCs are complaining about? The data shows the Haku is better, Midway a lot worse. CV role is a lot more dimished here, you can't spot and attack, you can't spot torpedos, you can't defend your fleet. You could do ALL THAT before. Now it is just do damage and damage, and spot a DD here and there sometimes.

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11 minutes ago, omglaserspewpew said:

I don't see the "planes' speed will be halved across the board" line in the patch notes, which kinda scares me, because if they don't do that, they won't fix much.

you whined in WOWp and I see you whine in WOWs

 

Everything change and everything stays the same. 

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8 minutes ago, Vinyl_ScratchPlays said:

See what I'm getting at?

 

No. Well actually Yes. What you are getting at, is this: You dont have a clue how to play against DDs and because you refuse to learn you think its ok, that other people should suffer aswell. Ill give you an idea: Why dont you start lobbying for the introduction of a nuclear bomb? It would drop every game, 5 seconds after the spawn and kill everybody. Then nobody would be better then you anymore AND those mean little buggers called DDs wouldbt hurt you anymore. Doesnt that sound like fun?

11 minutes ago, Vinyl_ScratchPlays said:

stop throwing hate around

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-reflection

Please start improving on that skill.

 

10 minutes ago, rage1750 said:

Safer just to remove them from the game. 

 

Amen my brother. As this point, I really wish WG would finaly admit, that they cant get it right and stop torturing us. Then we could finaly play the game...

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10 hours ago, Vinyl_ScratchPlays said:

you all need to get used to them and play the game how its ment to be played

Where is the holy wows bible that says how i have to play? Developers CANT force their own gameplay on the players. The playerbase decides how the game is played. You see it how players are abusing the new CVs right now. WG didnt think how people could play CVs. Probably they played CVs like numbnuts, and then it worked... somehow maybe.

And FYI, one can just stop playing wows - noone is "forcing" me to play it if i dont like it. Makes me sad, yes, because i like the game in itself *edited*

 

Quote

but its better then before where people would go out and solo camp and suicide.

How would that be even possible :cap_hmm:

 

10 hours ago, Vinyl_ScratchPlays said:

Why not remove dds! I HATE then whem im in a battleships! they can spot me! stealth torp! blah blah blah

Thats called unreasonable whining.

With that sentence, you basicly say "CVs are currently fine, and there is nothing wrong with it". Did you read the forums the last days? 99% of the threads is about CVs, either them being crap, or them being totaly OP/Broken af.

 

10 hours ago, valrond said:

What crazy spotting? Now if you want to spot, you can't attack, and vice versa. DDs think they have it bad cause now there are cvs in nearly every game, where before there weren't many, and attacking lone DDs is the only safe way to attack anything in a CV, specially uptiered. 

 

https://youtu.be/PNQVwOpVScw?t=159

 

Old CV spotted first ships 1:40 into the game. And he is not close to attacking anything.

New CVs https://youtu.be/xBV14I9Yhw0?t=112

spotted 11!!!! ships 1:40 into the game (way earlier than that), and has already attacked couple of times. Take Torpbomber and he would have his 2nd wave attacking right now.

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2 minutes ago, valrond said:

You can't compare a tier 7 ship to a tier 8 ship. But I guess your IQ is so low that you cannot comprehend that, or even read what I wrote.

 

Out of arguments (not that you had any to begin with) and resorting to insults. Might want to read the forum rules or this will be a short visit for you.

 

btw: what kind of IQ is needed to reach an average damage of 3500 with the Ranger and a 0% WR? :cap_tea:

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10 minutes ago, valrond said:

What crazy spotting? Now if you want to spot, you can't attack, and vice versa. DDs think they have it bad cause now there are cvs in nearly every game, where before there weren't many, and attacking lone DDs is the only safe way to attack anything in a CV, specially uptiered.

 

As for the damage numbers, aren't those numbers what CCs are complaining about? The data shows the Haku is better, Midway a lot worse. CV role is a lot more dimished here, you can't spot and attack, you can't spot torpedos, you can't defend your fleet. You could do ALL THAT before. Now it is just do damage and damage, and spot a DD here and there sometimes.

Well I don't know how else to explain the sudden shift in how the average player plays. It's a camp fest when CVs are in game, even if they don't actually do a huge amount of damage.

 

Somehow it shuts everyone down with just the fear of being bombed. 

 

The RTS CVs had far more map control yet previously people still pushed.

 

Maybe the patch is still young and people need time to get over the CV changes. 

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2 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Well I don't know how else to explain the sudden shift in how the average player plays. It's a camp fest when CVs are in game, even if they don't actually do a huge amount of damage.

 

Somehow it shuts everyone down with just the fear of being bombed. 

 

The RTS CVs had far more map control yet previously people still pushed.

 

Maybe the patch is still young and people need time to get over the CV changes. 

Most likely. I just had two games, one in the Budyonny in a T8 and a Kürfürst in a T10. In both cases the side with the concentrated push prevailed and won.

What was disappointing, was that AA was useless even with DefAA against an equal tier CV. That one need to be balanced better.

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13 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

btw: what kind of IQ is needed to reach an average damage of 3500 with the Ranger and a 0% WR? :cap_tea:

 

In fairness that is only 2 games in the new Ranger; though when I compared his old Ranger stats with my Mogami stats (which I am terrible at!) I will admit, I giggled like a school girl :cap_like:

+1

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19 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Out of arguments (not that you had any to begin with) and resorting to insults. Might want to read the forum rules or this will be a short visit for you.

 

btw: what kind of IQ is needed to reach an average damage of 3500 with the Ranger and a 0% WR? :cap_tea:

No, I just made the argument. They are ships from different tier. Would you compare the performance of a Gneisenau to a Bismarck? A Colorado to a NC? That is why you can't compare them.

And if you can't understand that, well, then you have more serious problems than WOWS.

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[NKK]
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4 minutes ago, rage1750 said:

 

In fairness that is only 2 games in the new Ranger; though when I compared his old Ranger stats with my Mogami stats (which I am terrible at!) I will admit, I giggled like a school girl :cap_like:

+1

Yeah, why don't you look at my previous Enterprise stats ?

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[PANEU]
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well i have been watching the stats this week and they go up every day. also games go faster by the day, 20 minutes games are rare in my vieuw. team work is indeed forced down our throats, tactics have disappeared from the game.

what bothers me the most is the total silence from wg, why is there no explanation or vieuw on how things are at moment. yes i saw the post on a hotfix but thats like stated before not adressing the major shift in gameplay.

why on earth was this needed?

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4 minutes ago, valrond said:

No, I just made the argument. They are ships from different tier. Would you compare the performance of a Gneisenau to a Bismarck? A Colorado to a NC? That is why you can't compare them.

And if you can't understand that, well, then you have more serious problems than WOWS.

 

The only one with problems here is you. old CVs =/= New CVs. They are completly different from each other. They are not the same class anymore. Yet you compare them. And even list BBs, that have the EXACT same gamemechanics as an argument in your favour. Just wow. Its as if you dont play the game and only look at the name "oh yea CV = CV". Only someone, who has no idea about the game, would argue like you do. Sorry, I cant make it more clear, as imo its as obvious as day and night (oh no, now you will tell me, they are the same, right?)

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