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Europizza

Fix Atlanta AA please

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I love my Atlanta. I've played 270 matches in it so i know the ship well. I don't recognise her any more.

 

The screenshot below is the result of 1 attack by 1 bombersquad of a tier VI Ranger on my full HP Atlanta. My Atlanta is fully AA specked. The captain is fully AA specked with the exception of the Manual AA ability. The bombersquad started the attack from my activated AA sector and I activated my defensive AA consumable at 5.5 km. The squad was able to complete all 3 runs, hit me successfully with ever run, took out several modules and guns in 2 of the runs, removed 11.000 HP from my healthpool and started fires.

 

I had a Scharnhorst and a New Mexico within AA range with me.

 

I shot down 3 planes. This abismal AA result is not an exception on my Atlanta.

 

2019-02-03.png

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I know right. AA is simular to opening crates currently. 2 matches later for example, I completely wiped out 1 squad of bombers at max range without even trying, DEFAA was not activated. It's shizofrenicly inconsistant.

2019-02-03 (2).png

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DFAA increases your continuous damage and the damage of the flak bursts. Continuous damage isn't devastating and probably won't stop a squad anymore. Flak bursts will, but if they can dodge them, the effect of DFAA is nothing at all. There are also AA auras to consider - below 3k Atlanta's AA isn't as good as several US destroyers of the same Tier or below. The "closer they get, the more damage you do" rule no longer applies  so what used to shred planes - the cumulative value of all her AA - no longer works.

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2 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

DFAA increases your continuous damage and the damage of the flak bursts. Continuous damage isn't devastating and probably won't stop a squad anymore. Flak bursts will, but if they can dodge them, the effect of DFAA is nothing at all. There are also AA auras to consider - below 3k Atlanta's AA isn't as good as several US destroyers of the same Tier or below. The "closer they get, the more damage you do" rule no longer applies  so what used to shred planes - the cumulative value of all her AA - no longer works.

Thank you for your explanation, really appreciated. It helps me understand part of what happened.

 

Still, it doesn't help me understand this: He was able to execute all 3 strafes of this 1 squadron with the complete 3 planes per strafe. Let that sink in. ALL 3 strafes hit me succesfully with 3 attack planes per strafe while I had DEFAA enabled, sector activated, and 2 BB's close by. The 3 planes i killed were killed after they had ran their attack, which makes the kills pointless. I did 4- 5k fully repairable plane damage. He did 11 k unrepairable ship damage to an uptierted AA platform.

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He dodged your flak. Probably by flying a curve on the way in and using his speed controls to be either ahead or behind of the flak bursts. This is what tends to happen -  CV players use their speed boost/air brake to make the attack successfully and then don't really worry about an exit strategy. They can press F to return the squad to the CV automatically, you might get a couple of kills if they forget to do so, but you've taken the damage. It's a good trade for them .

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33 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

He dodged your flak. Probably by flying a curve on the way in and using his speed controls to be either ahead or behind of the flak bursts. This is what tends to happen -  CV players use their speed boost/air brake to make the attack successfully and then don't really worry about an exit strategy. They can press F to return the squad to the CV automatically, you might get a couple of kills if they forget to do so, but you've taken the damage. It's a good trade for them .

Why is a tier VI CV able to do this to a full AA tier VII DEFAA activated Atlanta accompanied by 2 BB's? And what am I to do about it other then pray to on RNGezus and wiggle my ship?

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42 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Why is a tier VI CV able to do this to a full AA tier VII DEFAA activated Atlanta accompanied by 2 BB's? And what am I to do about it other then pray to on RNGezus and wiggle my ship?

If you'd got your long range AA auras to interlock it would have been devastating. But who is going to do that? You should probably try and team up with a ship with better mid/short range AA, though. 

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Do not forget that there are skills that upgrade your continus fire damage plus remember that DFAA works with increased sector. So if you get 150% on one sector and use DFAA it gets a lot stronger.

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I've been playing the 0.8.0 Ranger quite a lot, and from my end too, the Atlanta feels weird.

 

I can't check because I don't own the ship, but is the continuous damage of her long-range AA relatively weak?

 

I've been able to circle right around an Atlanta with my Wildcats and put all my rocket salvos into her without losing planes. If this is an AA cruiser, I am not impressed.

 

It's not like AA is generally weak, or always avoidable. Something like a Cleveland shreds my planes so reliably I won't even try.

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53 minutes ago, gizaman said:

Do not forget that there are skills that upgrade your continus fire damage plus remember that DFAA works with increased sector. So if you get 150% on one sector and use DFAA it gets a lot stronger.

I didn't forget :-) Fully upgraded AA ship and 19 point AA captain. I de-slotted manual AA because I have been in this situation before with manual AA slotted. Planes attacking a ship right next to me and i didnt kill a single plane with sector and DEFAA activated and Manual AA slotted.

 

Also in my second screenshot where i decimated an entire bombsquad in 1 go I was alone and as you can see in the 2nd screenshot i did not activate my DEFAA in that wipeout. They just dissapeared and i had 11 plane kills without any actual confrontation.

 

I am used to actively scout, lure and bait planes into my AA bubble helping my teammates by using AA off/on toggle and the DEFAA. Currently the Atlanta AA is an RNG bubble I have little part in. I can't bait planes into my AA, because if i activate AA/DEFAA when they actually commit it's too late: they already passed my strongest long range flak. And apparantly they can turn and attack two more times with full attack runs. And i cant activate it too early because they arent committed and i run the risk of wasting 1 defAA consumable if they disengage or simply press F. All i do now is leave AA on all the time and hope the pilot is not good enough or has RNG wipe everything away in 1 swoop like in my second example.

 

The result is this: I do not feel I am actively playing a role. It is like the CV is playing a mini game in my general area, and if he wins i get punished for just being there. And if he loses his planes just dissapear.

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aa auras need to overlap, and the continuous damage needs to account for atleast 50% of the total dps, since flak bursts are far to inconsistent.

 

That is a bare minimum change

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47 minutes ago, Europizza said:

The result is this: I do not feel I am actively playing a role. It is like the CV is playing a mini game in my general area, and if he wins i get punished for just being there. And if he loses his planes just dissapear.

I think WG have done this to encourage teamplay. And it does, of a kind. A US DD like Farragut or Monaghan would be a good pairing, or another cruiser like Yorck (DFAA, Fighters, good mid-range AA) or Cleveland. The days of Atlanta as a standalone AA ship appear to be over.

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55 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

I think WG have done this to encourage teamplay. And it does, of a kind. A US DD like Farragut or Monaghan would be a good pairing, or another cruiser like Yorck (DFAA, Fighters, good mid-range AA) or Cleveland. The days of Atlanta as a standalone AA ship appear to be over.

The Atlanta is an AA ship.  That's its role.  I'm sure WG will fix it.

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2 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

I think WG have done this to encourage teamplay. And it does, of a kind. A US DD like Farragut or Monaghan would be a good pairing, or another cruiser like Yorck (DFAA, Fighters, good mid-range AA) or Cleveland. The days of Atlanta as a standalone AA ship appear to be over.

It is ridiculous idea to have separate team mates for short range AA, for mid range AA, for long range AA, and for actually dealing with something else than carriers. In randoms you are happy if you find ONE buddy with a brain, and now suddenly you need 2 or 3? And what about later game, when ships inevitably die or separate? Carriers are still fresh with infinite plane waves... 

 

Also the whole separating of range auras is idiotic, because it lacks simple logic. Why suddenly 127mm guns cannot shoot if the target is still at few km away? But they CAN shoot if there are no short range guns on the ship! Oh wait, but they can NOT shoot if there WERE short range guns on the ship, which are now destroyed.  Installing a short range AA gun on the ship magically makes long range gunners forget how to shoot at close range and changes a good AA to catastrophically weak AA.

 

Who could devise such ideas? Who approved them? Is anyone thinking there? 

Whole AA is a mess now. Not only in absolute terms (different carrier gameplay), but also relatively between ships. How can they have a slightest hope of balancing this now? :fish_palm:

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The game i just had with the Atlanta was horrible. Was doing my best to provide AA cover to my team mates from a enemy Saipan. The entire game shot down two planes despite having engaged the majority of enemy plane squads.

The reliable AA CL i had is gone. It's just a fat Kidd with radar and unlimited use of a consumable that is now pretty much useless.

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13 minutes ago, Hedgehog1963 said:

Yes.  CVs now attack Atlanta and Kidd.  They are laughing their arses off.

Glad I didn't buy the Atlanta or Kidd:Smile-_tongue:

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Quick question @Europizza

 

Have you re-checked that your captain & ship are actually still AA spec'd? With the release of 0.8.0 all AA modules got demounted, and I think it reset the AA captains aswell. If you haven't put them back on... you're not sailing a fully-AA spec'd ship even if you think you are

 

 

And just like it has been said since the 1st day of TST - flak is useless if the enemy CV owns a keyboard. Of course hordes of potatoes ignored that giving overly positive reactions on all the rework polls by WG resulting in what we have now. So enjoy!

Also a bit ironic how those same potatoes now seem to be the ones struggling on both ends - their upvoted flak doesn't help them in def, but if they try to play CVs it wipes them before they can drop. Oh boi does that make me laugh

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2 hours ago, EdiJo said:

Also the whole separating of range auras is idiotic, because it lacks simple logic. Why suddenly 127mm guns cannot shoot if the target is still at few km away?

Well, you actually can argue that this exactly is realistic. My understanding is that WW2 flak shells had timed fuzes, so the shell would detonate a set time after firing the gun. The volume of fire was low, so they didn't dream of direct hits, but instead hoped that shells would detonate close enough for the shrapnel to damage the plane.

 

So in effect the flak would be creating a barrage at a given distance/altitude. If the attacker made it through he was clear from it, but then soon started getting incoming lead from low-caliber AA. 

 

The timed fuzes could be adjusted, but if you have a plane incoming at 400 km/h, it will get 1 km closer in about 10 seconds. I doubt they even tried reacting to that, but instead hoped that the low-caliber pew-pews could down the plane that got through the barrage. 

 

The allies did experiment with proximity fuzes, but I don't think they saw widespread use during the war. 

 

Of course this is really more a gameplay question, specifically for the 0.8.0 CV players. When you attack, you need to sneak your way through the flak barrage first, and then swiftly drop whatever you're carrying on the target. The gameplay has to be challenging but rewarding. 

 

Before 0.8.0 we didn't have this kind of layered AA because it wasn't needed. The planes didn't have human pilots who could get frustrated, rage quit and uninstall. You just needed to add some AA that in total had the desired punch for the ship. 

 

This seems like a balancing problem, and not an overly complex one. The auras must have sensible relative strengths and distances. Probably Atlanta was poorly tested, and will get fixed in the coming versions. After all it's a premium ship with the strong AA as a main selling point, so I doubt WG intentionally shafted it. :Smile_smile:

 

TL;DR: Working as intended, but undoubtedly poorly balanced for some ships in the current version. 

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2 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Quick question @Europizza

 

Have you re-checked that your captain & ship are actually still AA spec'd? With the release of 0.8.0 all AA modules got demounted, and I think it reset the AA captains aswell. If you haven't put them back on... you're not sailing a fully-AA spec'd ship even if you think you are

@wilkatis_LV Hi mate, yeah I checked the ship and captain before taking her into battle. I changed the captain to test different setups. I always used the full AA build on my Cleveland (VI and VIII version)/Atlanta captain, so I'm very familiar with AA on those two ships. It was my first 19 pnt captain ever :-)

 

6 hours ago, jss78 said:

I've been playing the 0.8.0 Ranger quite a lot, and from my end too, the Atlanta feels weird.

 

I can't check because I don't own the ship, but is the continuous damage of her long-range AA relatively weak?

 

I've been able to circle right around an Atlanta with my Wildcats and put all my rocket salvos into her without losing planes. If this is an AA cruiser, I am not impressed.

 

It's not like AA is generally weak, or always avoidable. Something like a Cleveland shreds my planes so reliably I won't even try.

@jss78Below you'll find the numbers listed on the Atlanta and Cleveland (values are in port witout a captain but with AA guns Mod 1 fitted)

 

Continuous damage

AA Short Range: Atlanta 114 Cleveland 630

AA Mid Range: Atlanta 1103 Cleveland 1397

AA Long Range: Atlanta 2352 Cleveland 2352

 

Flak bursts
Mid Range: Atlanta 3 Cleveland 9

Long Range: Atlanta 7 Cleveland 7

 

Hit chance

Short range: Atlanta 79% Cleveland 81%

Mid range: Atlanta 83% Cleveland 85%

Long range: Atlanta 83% Cleveland 85%

 

At medium range the number of flak bursts of Cleveland are 3x of that of the Atlanta. Avoiding 3 flak pufs is dead easy, 9 at that range is pretty tough.

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7 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

I think WG have done this to encourage teamplay. And it does, of a kind. A US DD like Farragut or Monaghan would be a good pairing, or another cruiser like Yorck (DFAA, Fighters, good mid-range AA) or Cleveland. The days of Atlanta as a standalone AA ship appear to be over.

I disagree politely. In the old build I was able to help my teammates with my 7.2 km AA protection. I actually took pride in that and actively went out of my way to help my teammates.

 

Having to sail along side another ship within 3.5 km range (med-short) isn't teamplay, it's a freight train. I will also completely mess up the dd's stealth play. I already can't support a capping DD with AA while hugging an island with the new AA change. That's fair to me, I can enjoy having to trade risking exposure to great AA support if the AA support is reliable. But sailing within 3.5 km (med/short range) of a DD so they can help me with their AA in random battles? Did you try fighting surface ships in an Atlanta in open waters?

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