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CV rework feedback - I like it, somewhat.

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Beta Tester
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So, the CV rework. From the perspective of a guy who preferably played Graf Zeppelin for the last couple of months at "acceptable" level, and will likely stay a CV main.

 

What has changed, from my perspective, and what hasn't?

- The relatively long arming times of torps on almost all CVs and the only medium alphas on rockets mean I can't wreck DDs as I'm used to, it requires far more skill to cross drop in the new system than it does in the old one. Ships also have considerably more time to dodge than in the old system. Additionally, alphas are lower. Means: DDs in CV games got stronger than before, not weaker.

- AA cruisers got slightly less relevant as the total density of flak bursts spewed in my way is determinant for effective AA, not if they come from cruisers, BBs or CVs. I still can't strike a blob of critical mass (= about 3 ships with reasonable AA), and won't as I almost always find an exposed BB or cruiser somewhere, so I don't need to.

- Low alphas and long turnaround times make it useful to spread drops over multiple targets instead of alphaing off a single ship, making it overall less punishing for a target to get caught out of position (the BB has a chance to get back to the blob of his team. If he does it or not is a question of his skill)

- Because of the above-mentioned points, to be impactful, striking BBs, heavy cruisers and CVs is preferred.

- Damage averages stay largely the same (in my GZ: before rework 127k, now 120k)

- Looking at statistics, on wows-numbers, overall playerbase and percentile damage averages between old and new CVs are largely consistent.

- Winrates for new CVs, curiously, have a tendency to be a few (usually single digit) percentage points higher than old CVs, mostly pronounced at total population. Which implies that the impact of a CV in fact has increased, but only slightly.

Possibly a result of less fighter play/more strike focus.

- In terms of feel: the CV still needs the most situational awareness and meta knowledge to know where he needs to put his strikes. Fighter play and micro has been replaced by AA dodging tactics, which is still engaging in a way and needs its practice. The fear of "dumbing down" has not really come true at all, as I still have to look at the map, imagine AA ranges, find the best targets, and plan for a flight path.

- Graphics look prettier.

 

Overall, the rework has made the CV class easier to pick up for the average player, meaning that the punishing aspect of the skill gap (me punishing the noob directly) has completely disappeared such that he can have an impact in a way. Which of course doesn't mean that it will be that large if one doesn't have the muscle memory and mechanics knowledge. In terms of striking, the meta has only slightly shifted.

 

So, why is there so much bitching on this forum right now? I'd assert, because people are just not used to play in the meta containing the CV, which has evolved now, but was mostly like this for all CV players in the old model. CV players were rare before, so the usual tactics used referred to games without it.

DDs in CV games had an even more horrible fate than they do now with a competent CV on the enemy team. But they likely didn't perceive it as a large problem because the matches with one were so rare. Now, of course, we have 1-2 CVs per game normally, and it likely won't go away, so people will have to adjust their game knowledge. When DDs learn they can only cap when they have an escape or enough close AA ships, or use a preemptive smoke to hard-counter the rocket planes, and BBs and cruisers start sailing in tighter blobs (which they will more likely learn when CVs are the norm, not the exception), the frustration will go away and people perceive it as the normal counter play against the CV they have to do most games to be successful.

What we see now is the frustration that techniques learned in hundreds of games before stop working as the meta has changed abruptly.

If more players had spent in the order of 100 games on the test server, we wouldn't see the current bitching. But, no, we of course mostly had to test against bots. Your own fault, people.

 

In total, reworked CVs are fine, they just might need some value fine tuning to become completely balanced. It is more a question of personal taste if you prefer RTS or the current action CVs.

 

So, see (drop) you from the airs.

Greetings

Physix

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[TPHO]
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2 CV pr game is stupid, try being in a DD and you will be permanently spotted you cant play a DD like its supposed to. Cruiser is a bit of the same, if you try your luck and do what a cruiser is supposed to do you will be killed by both the CV in min.

the main issue is the spotting thing, after that the frustrating task of defending and evading air attacks, on top of that the AA on most ships are nerfed to death, i had more airplane kills before the update, and here we are talking one CV pr game and no stupid infinite planes.

The result is that most stay far behind lobing HE 15+km not much close combat, it boring, its a arcade game now.

 

they could just as Well have introduce GPS guided missiles the result would be the same....

 

this should be a boat game not a flying circus.

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Beta Tester
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From a balance point i think they are fine ( if you are not a dd).

But gameplaywise they become boring way to fast

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5 hours ago, PhysixGER said:

DDs in CV games had an even more horrible fate than they do now with a competent CV on the enemy team. But they likely didn't perceive it as a large problem because the matches with one were so rare. Now, of course, we have 1-2 CVs per game normally, and it likely won't go away, so people will have to adjust their game knowledge. When DDs learn they can only cap when they have an escape or enough close AA ships, or use a preemptive smoke to hard-counter the rocket planes, and BBs and cruisers start sailing in tighter blobs (which they will more likely learn when CVs are the norm, not the exception), the frustration will go away and people perceive it as the normal counter play against the CV they have to do most games to be successful.

What we see now is the frustration that techniques learned in hundreds of games before stop working as the meta has changed abruptly.

If more players had spent in the order of 100 games on the test server, we wouldn't see the current bitching. But, no, we of course mostly had to test against bots. Your own fault, people.

I did not mind CVs pre-rework as a DD because my own CV had the means to help me (fighter squadrons). Post-rework he does not have an effective way to help me anymore.

 

Pre-rework, the only reliable way to get killed by a CV were torp cross drops and I had a high chance to evade. Post-rework I cannot do anything against rocket planes and they will kill me.

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[BHSFL]
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The only problem i encounter is that as CV you are comletely powerless if enemies DO group up in at least 3 ships and stay close together. They are virtually immune to air attack then.

 

More and more players in game seem to realize that, and use it. I see this happening, and i lose complete squadrons in a single wall of flak explosion far before the attack run can begin. And that while there is much complaing AA is too weak !!!

 

I take it WG will keep stats on damage and effectiveness, and will finetune any unintended effects so im not too worried. But my performance varies extremely, i cant say CV are underpowerd because i can rack up good XP and credits, but with smart enemies that stay together in groups i experience complete ineffectiveness. And high negative credits.

 

 

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Players
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I don't think finetuning will do it here.

Playing a CV is quickly becoming boring (and I really wanted to enjoy the new gameplay).

Playing against a CV is plain frustrating as even with a full AA build and Def AA you still get hit all the time. And don't start with "stay together in groups" as that's not an option on most maps, unless you want really boring and dull gameplay like KotS where everyone just keeps hiding behind islands. If I wanted that, I would just open a spreadsheet and enjoy the action there.

Also, T8 is now completely pointless due to M8/M10 MM and 4 CVs per battle. At least limit CVs to ONE per team. That would be a start.

And for the love of god: Take T8 out of MM with T10s!!

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[DREAD]
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3 hours ago, bai7200 said:

2 CV pr game is stupid, try being in a DD and you will be permanently spotted you cant play a DD like its supposed to. Cruiser is a bit of the same, if you try your luck and do what a cruiser is supposed to do you will be killed by both the CV in min.

the main issue is the spotting thing, after that the frustrating task of defending and evading air attacks, on top of that the AA on most ships are nerfed to death, i had more airplane kills before the update, and here we are talking one CV pr game and no stupid infinite planes.

The result is that most stay far behind lobing HE 15+km not much close combat, it boring, its a arcade game now.

 

they could just as Well have introduce GPS guided missiles the result would be the same....

 

this should be a boat game not a flying circus.

 

Well we don’t know how many will stay on carriers. Spotting was a problem before but now we just have more carriers. In case this remains a problem WG can buff DDs to compensate.

 

Eg. Reducing detection range from air for DDs

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[BHSFL]
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I agree atm there are too many CV in matches. But WG ofcourse have to deal with thousands of players that want to experience the reworked CV's. Should they be kept in waiting queue's for 5 minutes ore more  ? Especially if they return from not playing the game for some time ? Think of this through WG eyes....returning players are more potential paying customers....

 

This is probably the least evil WG could decide on. But be assured, you KNOW that after the first week there will be less CV players and everyone and WG knows this. Probably they have some confidence they will not lose too many players over those they can gain.  Especially if it is true they did this to make the game more suitable for console control.

 

CV are far from overpowerd, and you have to work MUCH HARDER to get a decent XP and credit return for it. Suck and lose credits big time. This alone will drive non dedicated players off. You will enjoy a more reasonable balance soon enough. 

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Players
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New CVs with their endless plane squadrons and the reworked AA defence of the rest of the ships RUINED the entire game.

Ships that with captain's skills could shoot down 10-20 planes in an entire battle now can only shoot down 2-3! Also it takes to much of attention to monitor air strikes in the middle of a naval gun battle in the same time! 1st the abillity of HUGE in numbers plane squadrons to attack from different sides (already existed) can not allow player to have in mind which sector will enforce in his AA defence while recieves fire from guns and torpedos from DDs!!! After the OP DDs we have the OP CVs ! What will be next? The OP imaginary Soviet BBs that will end up having STYX missiles?? You have ruined the AA difence!!!!

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[ICON]
Beta Tester
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Soon the cv population will drop back to 10% like before.
Soon the gap between good and bad cv will be worst than before.
Soon the game will be so boring and static and therefore no fun.
Soon the game will appear at consoles were the money is and that was the purpose of the update.
Soon you will hear more community contibutors state that in order to get this balanced it will take over a year.
Soon WG will realise that the losses would be more than the profits.
Sooner or later another company will take advantage of this with another game.
THERE  IS NO FIX to the lost strategic aspects of the game what so ever and anyone who thinks they will roll back lives in a illussion.

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[UA-NF]
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So you compare Graf Zep that was oblviousely OP before patch to new CVs and tell us they have similar impact on the game. So... still OP. 120k average damage seems well above average dmg for other tier 8 ships.

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[BHSFL]
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I really had to work hard for presented results, as you can see with the amount of ribbons, still didn't do a lot of damage and still lost the match. The two sinkings were dead already from allied ship attacks, just hit the last remaning health points. There are no overpowered CV's.

 

And this while the enemy did not stay together and gave me ample oppertunity to make pass after pass on them. In maches where the enemy is smarter and actually uses all options available to them i get NEGATIVE credits !

 

 

results.jpg

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4 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

The only problem i encounter is that as CV you are comletely powerless if enemies DO group up in at least 3 ships and stay close together. They are virtually immune to air attack then.

 

More and more players in game seem to realize that, and use it. I see this happening, and i lose complete squadrons in a single wall of flak explosion far before the attack run can begin. And that while there is much complaing AA is too weak !!!

 

I take it WG will keep stats on damage and effectiveness, and will finetune any unintended effects so im not too worried. But my performance varies extremely, i cant say CV are underpowerd because i can rack up good XP and credits, but with smart enemies that stay together in groups i experience complete ineffectiveness. And high negative credits.

 

 

Haku long range torps outrange all AA ... just a hint ...

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[CROTZ]
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I like the first foundation steps on the CV rework, IMHO, its much more immersive and I love the fun and speedy action style of playing CV`s - It now feels like a real Theater of War.

 

The plane restock rate of CV`s could be reduced by 50%, to avoid excessive plane spamming, and WG checking what the best AA improvements or AA system changes could be + making ship`s sea level concealment more effective against nearby and approaching planes.

 

Wishful hopes:

I would welcome an increase to 36 players in random matches someday in the future years, where each team has max  4 CV`s and ( someday ) max  4 submarines per team.

 

Happy WoWs everyone, those which are unhappy should hopefully get some patch joy in the nearby future. :cap_rambo:

 

 

 

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