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You_Overextended

What do you do in this situation?

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So, I am in a match, I am on a DD, I manage to secure a cap or two while trying to force some enemies to turn broadside for easy targets for my teammates. The entire time I am knife-fighting DDs and discouraging them from advancing. Meanwhile, the entire team around me evaporates within the first 5 minutes of the match. All of that effort leads to a defeat.

 

This was about 80% or so of my matches the past few days. I just want to know what to do in this situation...

 

There must be something, right? Aside from not playing DD and switching to BB or CA (which allows me to have a bit more influence, given my style of calculated play). I just want to be a good DD player, because I like the zippiness of these ships.

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Using torpedos in smoke will not make you blink inside the smoke, from the CV player sky perspective.

Small blinking (firing) ships in smoke are not worth the threat and work from a CV players view, however... Sometimes its for the thrill to perform an attack on a small blinker with rocket planes or a CV torp guesstimate drop.

Smoke camping and blinking (firing) behind a hill is too much work for the evaluating and observing CV player.

 

Cruising with CVs, Jean Bart(s) or any bunch of ships helps a lot, but amassing ships will trigger a CV mass torping the bunch with multiple 360 degree distance launches, if nobody of the ship bunch is using smoke and/or massive broadside AA.

 

1 Jean Bart, a CV and 1 smoking DD is already neat AA power. There does not need to be communication between those ships in random matches, just go along.

 

Best is to play and learn CVs with the new system, attacking lots of ships, players not using CVs dont understand what they are doing wrong and then come to the forum in rage mood :D

 

IMHO 5% of players currently understand how to team play in random matches, those cruising together can wipe entire tier 10 plane formations from maxed out talented CV players. Map navigation and surrounding friendly ships AA capability + friendly smoke actions and situational awareness are equal to aiming and firing.

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Did you reply in the wrong thread @puffpuff134? I cant see how that, what you wrote, is related to the questions in the OP...

 

@mlgomez its always hard to give advice without actual footage from ingame. Upload a few replays from your recent games - you will find them in the folder World_of_Warships\replays

I had a short look on your stats. Drawing conclusions from that is always a little bit sketchy, since it can give a wrong impression. However, your torpedo hit rate seems a little low across the board. Especially with the IJN DDs, thats something you want to work on. Now why you miss a lot of your torps, I cant tell from the stats, thats why im asking for a replay. Then I and others can give you better advice. Maybe its position, maybe your need more practice on selecting targets.

 

Your spotting damage seems ok, so Ill take it you are not sitting in your own smoke but spotting for your team. Thats a good thing.

 

Also: can you post your captains builds? Maybe there is something to optimize aswell. It is very easy right now, since you can reskill your captains for free. You should make use of that, if there is room for improvement.

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Hey, thanks for your reply and analysis.

Im not at stats player, as an example I'm a big fan of ship ramming and other funny ingame experiments. Other methods are creating a decent damage with the first 5 minutes of a match, performing a lot of matches per hour.

This results in bad looking stats from a traditional point of re(view).

Another example: Relaxed 20 km luck torping with the cat, one handed whilst drinking coffee. My stats are not readable but I appreciate the review :)

 

My current fav is a dual CV chain strike with rockets with the first 60 seconds. It always rattles the enemy cage and the other team starts panicking :D

 

Cross torping ships with 360 degree rotation runs are also superb fun and a challenge to master with the new system. It freaks the ship victim like hell.

 

The new CV rework allows tremendous high gameplay performance, can't wait to play CV again in a week...

If a player decides not to go for score, he can keep all unprotected old school. playstyle enemy ships busy like a swarm of wild wasps for the entire match duration. 2 top CV players can sink one enemy CV withing the first 90 secs... Great fun :D

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19 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Did you reply in the wrong thread @puffpuff134? I cant see how that, what you wrote, is related to the questions in the OP...

 

@mlgomez its always hard to give advice without actual footage from ingame. Upload a few replays from your recent games - you will find them in the folder World_of_Warships\replays

I had a short look on your stats. Drawing conclusions from that is always a little bit sketchy, since it can give a wrong impression. However, your torpedo hit rate seems a little low across the board. Especially with the IJN DDs, thats something you want to work on. Now why you miss a lot of your torps, I cant tell from the stats, thats why im asking for a replay. Then I and others can give you better advice. Maybe its position, maybe your need more practice on selecting targets.

 

Your spotting damage seems ok, so Ill take it you are not sitting in your own smoke but spotting for your team. Thats a good thing.

 

Also: can you post your captains builds? Maybe there is something to optimize aswell. It is very easy right now, since you can reskill your captains for free. You should make use of that, if there is room for improvement.

I think the worst thing I do is actively get into knife fights. I lose those quite easily on IJN DDs and I should instead try to focus first and foremost on attempting to secure caps with the right support. My frustrations cooled down after a little bit of self-reflection. I'll try playing a match right now with the Akatsuki then upload a replay on YouTube and link it here.

 

Also, suggestion to our kind moderators: Could we have a match analysis section in the forums? I'd love to be able to have a place where I could be constructively criticized on my performance, and others could probably also learn from that.

 

I know I am a pretty potato player on DDs, which is why I seek out advice =)

 

Edited to add: If it's any help to BB players, I noticed something that made me stop being SO potato on BB: When the enemy is abandoning a flank, go with them! Because you can't hold off cross-firing enemies alone. Kite and try to score pot shots to get a bit of damage instead of trying to be a hero.

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I (wrongly?) assumed that mlgomez is talking of the team promptly dying of CVs...If that's not the case, hey... Nice to hear that a DD has no CV pain. Somehow posting in mobile leaves huge spacing beneath my posts, which I cant delete - Sorry for that. 

Happy WoWs everyone :) 

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Slide around the caps, and never knife fight unless you are well supported and fighting a much inferior or damaged DD. Spotting is the main thing, don't reveal yourself by capping and keep an eye on your team in case they all run away. Things change in a division, but mostly play for yourself. Mid game once you have an idea where everyone is, then start capping while avoiding other DDs. I find generally I can land torps on ships because they don't expect a DD that far forward without being in a cap.

 

DD play is 90% map awareness and spotting, but you will get nearly all your XP from landing torps on sleepy BBs. 

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7 minutes ago, mlgomez said:

I think the worst thing I do is actively get into knife fights. I lose those quite easily on IJN DDs and I should instead try to focus first and foremost on attempting to secure caps with the right support.

 

Yea, you want to avoid that with IJN DDs, especially with the lower tiers ones that you are playing recently (Minekaze/Isokaze I saw). Id also suggest, when you notice, you have problems with knife-fighting, to try to avoid it. What you can do, to activly not get into those situations is f.e.: Get only into caps, where your team - especially cruisers - are near and ready to support you. Turn inside or even before entering the cap, so you show your stern towards the direction, where the enemys would come from. This way, you can disengage faster. And remember, when you shoot your guns, you will be detected usualy for atleast 20 sec. So often its a valid option to just stay silent and run. Goes especially for IJN DDs.

 

8 minutes ago, mlgomez said:

Also, suggestion to our kind moderators: Could we have a match analysis section in the forums? I'd love to be able to have a place where I could be constructively criticized on my performance, and others could probably also learn from that.

 

Thats actually a nice idea. I love it! How does this sound @MrConway @Crysantos ?

 

14 minutes ago, mlgomez said:

I know I am a pretty potato player on DDs, which is why I seek out advice =)

 

Oh we have plenty of awesome DDs players around here that are more then willing to offer advice. Im sure by tomorrow you will tons of helpfull tips.

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OK so I took a few lessons from matches I was very potato in and implemented some of your advice, and this happened:

 

 

Untitled.png

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That's a scoreboard which let's a CV players heart glow :)

 

... It also indicates that non CV can master the skill of survival and team play.

 

The other side still has CVs, in a week I'm glad to join the fun. Sinking CVs as CV is great joy.

 

 

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14 hours ago, mlgomez said:

OK so I took a few lessons from matches I was very potato in and implemented some of your advice, and this happened:

 

 

Untitled.png

Yeah, now go and use a T8+ DD against a T8 or 10 CV and report back how much fun you had.

 

You guys are amazing edit*

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7 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

Yeah, now go and use a T8+ DD against a T8 or 10 CV and report back how much fun you had.

 

You guys are amazing at licking WGs boots.

Against higher-tier CVs (I've already had T9 matches quite a bit lately), what I usually do is stick around the AA bubble of other cruisers and avoid venturing out too far, acting as an extension of any wolfpack.

 

My biggest problem right now is that I am a sucker for supporting players that are making clear mistakes (i.e., going head-first into a much better prepared enemy and trying to take them on without the numbers). If I can avoid that, my survivability is a lot higher.

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Mlgomez, can you check if I can join your clan and if your mates want to take me on?

I'm a friendly social player :)

I would like to protect you. Ive got all current carriers and 30 ships or so, everything maxed out.

 

I also enjoy playing with CV beginners of the update, it's fun to make up for the team and of course to learn from others. Sailing with others as non CV is also joy, as smoky DD or Jean Bart in a collective cluster of other ships.

 

Im back in the game in a week or so. Would be great :)

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3 minutes ago, puffpuff134 said:

Mlgomez, can you check if I can join your clan and if your mates want to take me on?

I'm a friendly social player :)

I would like to protect you. Ive got all current carriers and 30 ships or so, everything maxed out.

 

I also enjoy playing with CV beginners of the update, it's fun to make up for the team and of course to learn from others. Sailing with others as non CV is also joy, as smoky DD or Jean Bart in a collective cluster of other ships.

 

Im back in the game in a week or so. Would be great :)

Sure. Just letting you know: We're a clan mainly focused on voice chat divisions on Discord. Most of us don't have ships beyond T7 yet (though I am getting there pretty quickly and a few of us are grinding pretty hard). At least one of our most active members does have an Iowa, though. We're not an extraordinarily competitive clan but one focused on growing and honing our skill base, cohesion & cooperation. If you're interested just join our Discord @ https://discord.gg/sGxFAXc

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The video of the battle was just uploaded. Here it is: 

 

Feel free to point out my mistakes. That's what I uploaded it for =))

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Thank you, I will check it out. Its always nice when players share experience. Without bragging my way of playing CV probably look like a hack, too fast...I hope I find some challenging CV enemies in the future and more ground players learn to survive by supporting each other, can't wait to play again in a week ( currently travelling ).

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Generally you spend far too much time watching your torps. If they hit they hit, you should be off planning your next move and not watching them.

Don't open fire when you get spotted by a DD, turn away and hit engine boost. Save repair until you see their torps. Repairing at the right time can save your ship by increasing its manoeuvrability.

Don't sail in front of islands. When you get detected you want room to turn away, being trapped up against an island will make you eat torps. 

 

Basically there is a lot of detail stuff I do differently but none of it really matters. Overall good job. Get better at breaking contact and generally try to rove across the map a bit more and the rest will come. 

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1 minute ago, That_Other_Nid said:

Generally you spend far too much time watching your torps. If they hit they hit, you should be off planning your next move and not watching them.

Don't open fire when you get spotted by a DD, turn away and hit engine boost. Save repair until you see their torps. Repairing at the right time can save your ship by increasing its manoeuvrability.

Don't sail in front of islands. When you get detected you want room to turn away, being trapped up against an island will make you eat torps. 

 

Basically there is a lot of detail stuff I do differently but none of it really matters. Overall good job. Get better at breaking contact and generally try to rove across the map a bit more and the rest will come. 

Thank you! Yes, I was thinking while watching the replay that I am too obsessed with where my torps are going. At this point, I am just experimenting with predicting enemy movements and am interested in seeing how my torps relate to them.

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18 hours ago, mlgomez said:

Thank you! Yes, I was thinking while watching the replay that I am too obsessed with where my torps are going. At this point, I am just experimenting with predicting enemy movements and am interested in seeing how my torps relate to them.

It's mostly about watching the map and seeing when they are actually going. If they are generally heading for a cap they might be turning in so plan for that, or they might plan on settling behind an island. Eventually you will get a feel and be able to exploit it. 

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Quote

 

Feel free to point out my mistakes. That's what I uploaded it for =))

You do not have Concealment Expert on the Akatsuki, which is  not very stealthy to begin with.

This gives the enemy a significant advantage.

 

Think about using premium consumables or at least premium smoke, if you can afford it.

 

When capping, be more passive and careful. You want to cap and not get hit. 

 

Use your AA when spotted by planes, especially when they attack you.

 

Use speed boost to catch enemies running away from you.

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6 hours ago, mlgomez said:

I think the worst thing I do is actively get into knife fights. I lose those quite easily on IJN DDs and I should instead try to focus first and foremost on attempting to secure caps with the right support. My frustrations cooled down after a little bit of self-reflection. I'll try playing a match right now with the Akatsuki then upload a replay on YouTube and link it here.

Hmmm. I'm no huge pro at... Well, any class really, but I think you have hit on something important there: IJN DDs are not exactly knife-fighters. Certainly the Shimakaze line is all about stealth and torps and while you should still use your guns in relevant situations, the slow turret traverse and reload makes them not that great at actively seeking out knife fights. Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are very much gun-focused, but I'll let someone whose actually played them say whether they consider them knife-fighting as such, given poor manoeuvrability.

 

You'll likely find that the USN and some of the PA DDs cater better to a knife-fighting playstyle. As others have said above, though, you still want to make sure you have support or are otherwise going into the fight at an advantage!

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8 hours ago, mlgomez said:

The video of the battle was just uploaded. Here it is: 

 

Feel free to point out my mistakes. That's what I uploaded it for =))

 

1. Most important, you have to get Concealment Expert ASAP! Enemy DDs outspot you by 1km easily, 1,5km if you encounter the wrong one (T5 IJN or lets say a Cossack, the latter will slaughter you, even with CE its hard against one).

2. Dont necessarily shoot your guns right away. On midtiers you often see enemy DDs firing right away at you, that makes it much easier! You can spot him, while being unspotted yourself. Atleast when you have CE it will work, turn away and hope your teammates are shooting him.

3. Use atleast Premium DCP. If you can afford it, use all premium consumables.

4. Work with your concealment, even if its bad with 7,1 now. The time you torp the Myoko. You follow your torps and detect yourself because you are getting too close! He shoots you, and resets the cap ontop of that. You would have almost capped, so it cost you 1 minute.

5. Watch your minimap more often rather than your torpedoes. Soon after the Myoko, B was getting capped (you were behind the island south of B). Your T-22 is fighting the enemy DD, while you ignore it. You should have turned towards B, and fight the DD together. You would have both survived, and killed the enemy DD. You could have smoked up actually and negate the damage from the CV at the same time). You are lucky your CV killed the enemy DD. But this kinda misplay will make you lose games. Look for opportunities like that to fight enemy DDs, especially with IJN DDs. And a general advice: If you can, try to shoot DDs when you are moving behind an island, so that you are not detected afterwards. You want to hurt the enemy DD as much without trading your own health for it.

6. When you approach A, you take too long not getting into the cap. There is no reason to not get the cap.

7. Im not sure if it was useful to follow the BBs in the end. CVs would have dealt with him either way. Ofc you got a bit more damage by hitting a torp. On the other hand, im not sure if going for the enemy CVs would have been smart either :Smile_teethhappy: If they know, that you are on to them, they can just attack you within 10 secs basicly... But probably could have tried, i think this was a win either way, and by following the "dead" BBs, you couldnt get back to the CVs in time. But here we are only talking about dealing more damage, nothing game deciding really.

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Great input, thanks! Also, I am hearing from many people that I should avoid very high-tier battles altogether as a smart Hakuryu player can basically launch what amounts to Shimakazes that travel at 200 kts at you (this is troubling especially when I am playing other classes).

Either that, or I could just grind the CV and grief matches to pad my win rate. =))

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16 hours ago, mlgomez said:

The video of the battle was just uploaded. Here it is: 

 

Feel free to point out my mistakes. That's what I uploaded it for =))

 

Looks to me like you will enjoy Russian and US DDs... :cap_like:

In knife-fights those are absolute murder. 

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