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Saltface

Why all the fuss?

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Why all the Fuss?

The optimistic point of view

 

Dear All,

 

It is only day two of the new patch. I will not call it CV rework despite the fact that all call it like that. It is a lot more.

The way we view the game has changed. What we knew, and considered as standard is no longer there.

I will understand anyone that claims that they are frustrated. Actually, the roles we all had in mind for what is and how every ship is played, has somehow changed. Among others, Carriers realize that their aircraft are being decimated easily, Destroyers lost their traditional role of being a stealthy distributor of torpedoes and the term "perma-spotted" entered our colloquial, Cruisers think they might have a new role as formidable anti aircraft platforms and Battleships are the least to say confused. Ships that no one would consider (like the Kii for example) are now in the spotlight. Who would think the Kii is attractive? Now, with her buff and her serious AA ability she is rather an attractive alternative.

 

A second observation is that many complains have emerged. Some of our fellow forum members cast anathemas, others want their money back, many just feel lost in the new game environment and, it wouldn't be far from reality to say that, we are all confused.

 

Cheer up. Every coin has two sides. We just saw one side. I have imagined the other and it is a nice one (I am optimistic by nature). 

 

From what I observed in my more than 50 battles yesterday, unless players cooperate no battle will be fun. I seems that players have to cooperate (either in divisions or ad-hoc) if they want to have any kind of fun in battle. Any ship that wonders out alone and does her own thing is doomed to be eliminated a lot faster than before. For example a lone DD could be the case (and successful) before the new patch. Now? Impossible. Stealthy Cruisers that camp and island hug and shoot from their comfortable cover or behind smoke? Nope, sunk before they even think about it. Battleships that wonder alone far back and snipe thinking they are protected by range? Oh no. 

 

Obviously, a team of two, three or more ships is far more safe and effective. A battleship with the ability to project power, escorted (now the word has meaning) by a potent AA platform cruiser and maybe by a Destroyer that is either a good gunboat or a good torpedo boat to keep fast moving things at bay sounds as a workable idea. Many more combinations, e.g. a Sharnhorst with a Gneisenau together. One with emphasis on secondaries and one with emphasis to AA could also work. It wont be long before we see posts that treat this subject popping up in our forum. I can only imagine the post title "best three ship division for T7" or "Balance your division". Oh my, one can only rejoice with the heated debate, the arguments, the stats, etc. 

 

However, the most important and positive thing that I have noticed is that players will have to cooperate. Objectives, strategy and cooperation will rule. Isn't it what all complained about? No team work. No team objectives. No strategic thinking. Each one playing alone as a lone wolf. I guess this will be in a way a story of the past. Players that cooperate will enjoy the game, the others will feel such a frustration  that will drop it. 

 

Looks like a good scenario. I hope it comes true.

 

Optimistic regards

Saltface

 

P.S. Please look at the following graph. This is what is going to happen during the next month or two. 

 

learning-graph.thumb.jpg.08bc71b948d1a14c15d83ef2f530f6ea.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Saltface said:

A battleship with the ability to project power, escorted (now the word has meaning) by a potent AA platform cruiser and maybe by a Destroyer that is either a good gunboat or a good torpedo boat to keep fast moving things at bay sounds as a workable idea.

Shows how you don't quite understand the AA rework.

 

Cruisers are no longer the premier AA platforms, BBs are due to the sheer density of long and medium range flak bursts they can throw up, combined with the largest concentration of assured damage from shortrange autocannons. It's the battleship that ought to be escorting other ships for AA support, but then again given the universal shortening of AA ranges such things as AA escorting is hardly practical unless you literally move in one dense blob of ships.

 

Also lol at DDs. DDs far enough away from allied ships to actually have a practical range to scout ahead for DDs are also far enough away from allied AA that they can be dropped by a CV without much trouble. A DD close enough to allied AA to make attack runs unfeasible on the other hand isn't going to be much of a help to its team, better want another cruiser with even more AA and general dpm to add to the firepower.

 

Any form of aggressive DD gameplay is so heavily punishable by even Average Joe CV players with their rocket attack craft, it's not even funny. You just feel sad for the poor sod as he's either losing most of his HP and gets mission killed in the first minute of the game or is forced to hug allied ships so close he can't even properly do his job and scout, cap and harass other ships with torps (since it's pretty easy to dodge torps once you no longer have to worry about catching some into your sides as you pay more attention to the other enemy ships).

 

 

The only optimism that would help against any of that is hoping that the new CVs end up being ditched by almost everyone and we get back to the previous status quo of CVs being a de facto dead class, which is entirely possible mind you, though considering it's WG's stated goal to not make that happen I'd expect them to make CVs even more powerful prior to that happening so it really can only get worse for a good while as WG either keeps tweaking CVs to keep them popular or players stick to them and get ever more better at playing them.

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Dear @Aotearas,

 

Wonderful. Thank you for reading and replying.

 

First of all I shall not claim the depth of knowledge required for such an analysis. Yes, I do not have mastery over AA mechanics as they have been reworked. I guess I did not have mastery of them even before the rework. But that is beyond the point. 

 

My dear Friend, I am sure you just saw the thought process in action.  Now You are thinking how things work together. If the rework is here to stay then cooperation between players is a must. Future will show.

 

Regards

Saltface

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2 minutes ago, Saltface said:

If the rework is here to stay then cooperation between players is a must.

Which is totally the only reason I will be playing CVs so much right. I only want to provide WG with lots of data. There's no other, malevolent reason to it, I swear.

 

:Smile_trollface:

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I feel the rework only adds further to passive game play.

Aggressive play is punished hard particularly for dd's who already had a lot to deal with.

 

Situations where you can deploy crossfires or flank are even more difficult as teams seem to be forced to blob together.

Trying to turn around a losing situation where your team loses a few ships early in the battle is also far harder now.

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Only major problem is DD is spotted too often - and that can be fix very easy by giving spot only to player CV and delay to all other in team like on new radar system ( or not spot at all to other - just player cv that is targeting DD or even all class will see him and no one in team, not spotting for others  ) ..

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39 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Which is totally the only reason I will be playing CVs so much right. I only want to provide WG with lots of data. There's no other, malevolent reason to it, I swear.

 

:Smile_trollface:

Spoiler

Oh good reason AO. 

Same here. The only reason i play CV's now. :Smile_hiding:

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The answer is simple : There are old mechanics in the game that changed a year ago or before that YET  people still do not know how they work (like trying to torp another DD with a deep ruuning torp ,or sitting in smoke and just couldnt figure out how they got detected or the strafe of old CV play ) AND you make a major ptch like this and change things a bit .....Well my friend most couldnt get adepted to the old how you will expect them  to get adapted to the new ?

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People didn't want "rts" CV's (I doubt they tried them) and I wonder what they think now.

I'm a bit on both sides. I think fixing the old CV's would've been easier to do. But that would've been too logical, and they would've listened to feedback. So that was not going to happen.

 

So now we have a rework. I don't think people realized it'll take time to balance this gameplay out, and I do believe WG in that you can't test this all without going to the live server (I've heard it from supertesters as well). I try to be open-minded. This is the heading WG has decided, and since I think chances for the return of the old carrierplay are very slim, I would like to see patience. But people react like WG beheaded their pet, whithin a few hours after the patch went live. Before all this, I jokingly wrote I would like to play carriers only to crap on the haters, and I'm not disappointed by the amount of salt. It's almost threatening my kidneys.

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4 minutes ago, Robber_Baron said:

I think fixing the old CV's would've been easier to do.

So very much this. UI and QoL improvements, proper tutorials, and balance adjustments (e.g. removing or adjusting AP bombs) could have made enough of a differnece to the problems at much less cost, but there we go...

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2 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

So very much this. UI and QoL improvements, proper tutorials, and balance adjustments (e.g. removing or adjusting AP bombs) could have made enough of a differnece to the problems at much less cost, but there we go...

 

...like lipstick on a pig...

 

Fixing the terrible user interface of the old system doesn’t make it attractive all of a sudden 

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4 hours ago, Saltface said:

Why all the Fuss?

The optimistic point of view

 

Dear All,

 

It is only day two of the new patch. I will not call it CV rework despite the fact that all call it like that. It is a lot more.

The way we view the game has changed. What we knew, and considered as standard is no longer there.

I will understand anyone that claims that they are frustrated. Actually, the roles we all had in mind for what is and how every ship is played, has somehow changed. Among others, Carriers realize that their aircraft are being decimated easily, Destroyers lost their traditional role of being a stealthy distributor of torpedoes and the term "perma-spotted" entered our colloquial, Cruisers think they might have a new role as formidable anti aircraft platforms and Battleships are the least to say confused. Ships that no one would consider (like the Kii for example) are now in the spotlight. Who would think the Kii is attractive? Now, with her buff and her serious AA ability she is rather an attractive alternative.

 

A second observation is that many complains have emerged. Some of our fellow forum members cast anathemas, others want their money back, many just feel lost in the new game environment and, it wouldn't be far from reality to say that, we are all confused.

 

Cheer up. Every coin has two sides. We just saw one side. I have imagined the other and it is a nice one (I am optimistic by nature). 

 

From what I observed in my more than 50 battles yesterday, unless players cooperate no battle will be fun. I seems that players have to cooperate (either in divisions or ad-hoc) if they want to have any kind of fun in battle. Any ship that wonders out alone and does her own thing is doomed to be eliminated a lot faster than before. For example a lone DD could be the case (and successful) before the new patch. Now? Impossible. Stealthy Cruisers that camp and island hug and shoot from their comfortable cover or behind smoke? Nope, sunk before they even think about it. Battleships that wonder alone far back and snipe thinking they are protected by range? Oh no. 

 

Obviously, a team of two, three or more ships is far more safe and effective. A battleship with the ability to project power, escorted (now the word has meaning) by a potent AA platform cruiser and maybe by a Destroyer that is either a good gunboat or a good torpedo boat to keep fast moving things at bay sounds as a workable idea. Many more combinations, e.g. a Sharnhorst with a Gneisenau together. One with emphasis on secondaries and one with emphasis to AA could also work. It wont be long before we see posts that treat this subject popping up in our forum. I can only imagine the post title "best three ship division for T7" or "Balance your division". Oh my, one can only rejoice with the heated debate, the arguments, the stats, etc. 

 

However, the most important and positive thing that I have noticed is that players will have to cooperate. Objectives, strategy and cooperation will rule. Isn't it what all complained about? No team work. No team objectives. No strategic thinking. Each one playing alone as a lone wolf. I guess this will be in a way a story of the past. Players that cooperate will enjoy the game, the others will feel such a frustration  that will drop it. 

 

Looks like a good scenario. I hope it comes true.

 

Optimistic regards

Saltface

 

P.S. Please look at the following graph. This is what is going to happen during the next month or two. 

 

learning-graph.thumb.jpg.08bc71b948d1a14c15d83ef2f530f6ea.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was tempted to post the change curve myself after all the fuss and whine here.

 

But than I remembered: it’s the internet. Ppl like to jump on the “sky is falling” train.

 

For all of these there is a saying:

 

EVERYTHING WILL BE GOOD IN THE END - AND IF NOT EVERYTHING IS GOOD THEN ITS NOT THE END 

 

Cheers :cap_horn:

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How about this crazy idea? Planes can not spot at all, ships need to spot for them, because "planes can not see ships through clouds", lol :cap_haloween:

 

PS. This is specifically funny when only 2 carriers left in the game..

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so you say, all our ship builds and captain skills need tweaking? because with a new play style you have to adept your ships.

but wait, 45 ships in dock, say 20 need a rework, how many doubloons  will i need?????

dont tell me i spend 3 years working on game play and ships and suddenly wg decides it will all be different now and cope with it.

i love dds but now? i rarely play bbs, my cruisers do not have aa builds and here you are telling me that in 2 months i be happy.

send me the stuff wg development team smokes and i will be happy i bet.

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9 minutes ago, sircomealot said:

so you say, all our ship builds and captain skills need tweaking? because with a new play style you have to adept your ships.

but wait, 45 ships in dock, say 20 need a rework, how many doubloons  will i need?????

dont tell me i spend 3 years working on game play and ships and suddenly wg decides it will all be different now and cope with it.

i love dds but now? i rarely play bbs, my cruisers do not have aa builds and here you are telling me that in 2 months i be happy.

send me the stuff wg development team smokes and i will be happy i bet.

 

 Captain respec doesn’t cost a single doubloon at the moment 

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23 hours ago, Saltface said:

Obviously, a team of two, three or more ships is far more safe and effective. A battleship with the ability to project power, escorted (now the word has meaning) by a potent AA platform cruiser and maybe by a Destroyer that is either a good gunboat or a good torpedo boat to keep fast moving things at bay sounds as a workable idea. 

Except the BB will be licking a wall and playing with it's willy like a 2 year old or POTUS does these days, because that appears to be the skill level of most BBs. They are even bigger cowards than usual at the moment, which I had doubts could even be possible. Unless your projection include a clump of BBs behind an island or at a map edge 22 km from the nearest enemy then it is doomed to fail. 

 

If we return to a single CV per team over T6 then the issue will be resolved. T-10 will still be annoying but not much more than that. The rockets are kinda useless and they are being used far more than torps on DDs making the like of a DD easier. With 2 carriers the perma spotting is really annoying, but that is mostly the defensive fighters. A single carrier will lack that same ability - or possibly a reduction in the fighters ability to spot might be in order. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Aotearas said:

Shows how you don't quite understand the AA rework.

 

Cruisers are no longer the premier AA platforms, BBs are due to the sheer density of long and medium range flak bursts they can throw up, combined with the largest concentration of assured damage from shortrange autocannons.

 

 

This is not true from my point of view as a satisfied CV player.....i still get my [edited]handed to me when approaching a (AA) cruiser, rarely live to launch or drop ordenance on it. Even if they are alone !

 

On the other hand i have been chopping lone BB up all day. Why ? Because i live long enough for multiple passes and can use torpedo's like some sort of short range cruise missiles. Hunting DD at match start is good fun too, though the damage i do on them with rockets is very low. If they get blown up it is surely allied ships firing on it since it i broke it's stealth. But that is not new, did that in previous RTS mechanics with fighters too, and i did hunt DD with divebombers that often missed, doing equal low damage.

 

It's more the constant herassment that probably drives players wild. Not the damage that is done to them by planes directly. CV were very much damage nerfed, still i like the new ways. Even on the receiving end, i play all classes.

 

See it on the positive side : no more crossfired minefields of 10-12 torpedo's from 2 torp bomber squadrons simultaniously you can't escape and kill you while in full health ! I very much doubt a CV can 1 shot kill you now so if you look at the patch without a haze of rage, you will notice CV have become all but OP.....but they do herass you. Giving AA more to do.

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22 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

 Captain respec doesn’t cost a single doubloon at the moment 

Yep, it doesnt. But will i respec or even reset my captains for 200+ ships 1 by 1? HELL NO WITH THIS PORT UI !!

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I don't know what the borderline is, but since I remembered I had some captains where I prefered other skills, I decided to better be certain and did reset my 150 captains 1 by 1. It's done in a few minutes.

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On 2/1/2019 at 6:15 PM, Beastofwar said:

On the other hand i have been chopping lone BB up all day.

With your 36k average damage with your new tier VI Ryuujou you've been chopping at roughly half a BB all day (so not quite as successful at that as you seem to imply).

Together with your statement about getting crushed by a lone cruiser's AA I suggest you put a bit more effort into learning how to counter the AA because what you say isn't exactly representative of the current state.

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Some of our fellow members seem to have forgotten this is a team based game, and it should be about working together as a team

 

As a side note, I'm not going anywhere, just a little burned out at the moment from the snowflake grind.

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3 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

 Captain respec doesn’t cost a single doubloon at the moment 

well seems i missed something. however lets say i do that and next week they stop the free stuff, in 2 weeks they nerf and change things and you are left in sheit anyway

 

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9 minutes ago, sircomealot said:

well seems i missed something. however lets say i do that and next week they stop the free stuff, in 2 weeks they nerf and change things and you are left in sheit anyway

 

 

Well potentially. Sure. But you can reset all captains at the moment - which I did on many of my roughly 80 captains. 

 

If they fundamentally change things further they probably even give another free respec. Usually WG is rather ok in that department. 

 

I for example got rid of manual AA - maybe I give it a try these days but it looks less attractive to me 

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3 hours ago, Profilus said:

Yep, it doesnt. But will i respec or even reset my captains for 200+ ships 1 by 1? HELL NO WITH THIS PORT UI !!

 

Well not all of your 200 captains are affected are they? I manually respec‘d maybe 10-20 or so

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