What is wrong with the CV update? Post your takes on it!

[Maty83_Cz]

Poll up above: What are your reactions to the update?

(Quick disclaimer: I am not happy with the update and this is my reaction to it. I hope the community shares their point of view on it)

To start off: I decided to write down everything I think is wrong with the CV rework.... Again. WG devs turned a blind eye on the PTS feedback to an extent and even though the update was delayed, it clearly was not enough. As such, the game suffered. Here are my thoughts on what is driving the WoWs community into a more upset state than before:

1) IJN 25mm AA short range?!?

Wargaming, why did you nerf a nation with already bad AA to begin with? The 25mm mid-range was a saving grace for many IJN ships, including almost all DDs and the Yamato (Compare it to any other BB of the same tier and you had only 75% or less of their AA. At the same time there was no introduction of the dual-purpose nature of their 155mm and 203mm guns (Dubious nature, but it would have helped). Overall, this means that IJN vessels are unable to stand up to the increased amounts of aircraft carriers effectively. All this while the Chicago Piano stays as mid-range

2) Skill changes

Okay, this is a complex topic and I hate to break it: The older skills were far more useful than the new ones.

AFT and BFT have their necessity increased, however, they are worse than before A 10% increase to the entire AA potency for 3 points was a skill worth taking even without secondary guns and AFT with the 20% range increase made team AA play a viable tactic. While this denied CVs access to a ship up until a point, now with infinite planes (even with those being limited by spawning times) will win as the game progresses and AA mounts are destroyed. All in all, less potent AA skills at a time where you will find far more aircraft in the air

Concealment expert change made the game campier and along with the CV spotting remaining practically what it was. Now you are far less likely to engage in sneaking into capture points as cruisers and are absolutely unable to retreat and stealth up if you have pushed as a BB and are forced to retreat. Along with the change to the firing penalty (discussed later) being agressive is harder and in certain situations almost impossible. I get that it was weird when an Iowa out-spotted your Donskoi, but this should have been given more thought than it did. Possibly increasing concealment of the ships affected when the update dropped, or to bake the skill in, play around with the values and heavily discussing the change. It definitely should not have been baked into an already huge update for the game. Definitely an... unfortunately handled change.

As for the CV skills and the additions to skills to help CVs, I can not speak on those due to their obviosly new nature.

3) AA vs CVs: Not ballanced

As it stands with the current patch the AA is not ballanced. While WG said this would happen it is definitely important enough to warrant its own part of the discussion. With the changes to how different AA calibers are percieved and skill changes it may not come as a surprise that at points AA feels lackluster in certain situations. The sectors are a good idea, however there needs to be much refining and ballancing to get it right, particularly with the sectors themselves. A CV will still sink you no matter the ship, it is just a matter of time and how many squadrons he is willing to send at you.

4) Concealment penalty after firing change

As was the consent of the majority of the community on a post made by Spithas on the EU server and by Ducky_Shot on the NA server , the old mechanic was far more popular with the playerbase. The new mechanic makes no sense since if you break LoS how can the enemy spotter know your exact position and direction after you clear the island? Here I am offering an option for WG to consider: Bake in the Concealment expert and do something with the lenght of being spotted (-5 sec on the bloom?) But listen to the community and give us the pre-8.0 mechanic!

 

Anyways, Warships has always been a game I liked, but now I am seriously considering a long break before WG puts out all of the wildfires raging because of 8.0

The biggest question is: What do you think about 8.0 in general? Tell me down below and please participate in the poll posted with this thread. My hope is that wargaming will listen and do something in the very near future to help the game get back up.

[Winged_Cat_Dormant]

It feels so weird in general, I wish I was new to the game so I don't have to be frustrated, flabbergasted and forced to adapt to so many mechanics at the same time. I am not 12, my brain is a brick now!

[mr_penguin9508]

my game freezes every time i exit a battle so i then have to end process with task manager and restart the client if i want to play another battle. Only started happening after 0.8.0. Might just be my crappy laptop not being able to take it after the new patch but i kinda doubt it.

[DanottiTR]

I like the new 8.0 .not perfect but I wll adapt to the new mechanics as usual as before.Game evolving is better then we play the same old thing.

 

EDIT : The general problem is due reowrk lots of things changed and it is discomforting players that do not want to leave (or experience something diffrent ) beyond thier comfort zone .

 

The main problem is sorry to say but player base or better to say unwanting to learn anything kinda players base (according to me this is like %60 ).

FOREXAMPLE it is like a year or more you released pan asian DDs YET 2 out of 5 pan asian DDs I saw trying to torp other DDs with that deep runnig torps  ..especially T8 and lower , they do not even know the mechanic yet any will to listen when you try to tell them in game .There are still BBs sitting in smoke and firing thinking they are invisible ,there still plyers around have no idea which ship has radar or sonar or how they got detected becouse there is a certain distance you get detected after you fire your guns and they will call you names all over the place at chat just becouse they do not want to learn the general mechanıcs of the game .AND you made a major patch on top of this image we have ... for sure hell will broke loose ,they will not adapt the new as they just couldnt to the old.

[AtotheK101]

Tbh I was concerned with the new patch and Im still.

 

Danotti is right that u can learn the new mechanics but its not only about that. Also the CV rework isnt as bad of a change as it first looked like. But especially on high tiers with 2 T10 CVs it becomes a really passive game. I was forced to shoot over really long distancesin my BBs  because i was spotted not even 1 min in the game. Any kind of aggressive plays is mostly denied by the fact that the plane can reach your spawn within seconds. Furthermore u simply cant defend against the CV effecient enough anymore. The AA on certain ships is hilariosly bad. ( Specced Hindenburg full aa and wasnt able to kill many T8 planes even with Def AA. I did dmg to them but thats it. So Im questioning that whole AA balancing) Dont get me wrong: Cvs should be allowed to strike u. But it feels strange if u cant defend properly against T8 planes. He can just return the planes after 1 attack run and comes in with another squadron within seconds. The Alpha strike value is gone but the dot dmg doesnt make it really easier.

Also not having the AA range  to cover your friendly ships and actually are able to deny an area for the enemy CV or even making it hard for him to effectively strike you isnt really happening anymore. So 2 T10 CVs are still a no-go for me. At least in the current state. In midtiers my expierence is different. I think it might work with 2 CVs each side.

Also the pre 0.8.0 concealment firing penalty was way more intuitive than it is now so I definitely wanna have it back.

 

That are the things WG has to work on. And they have to do it quick because Im worried that people will be upset with this pretty soon.

[kapawuwala]

This new CV gameplay design is irritating. On top of this, CV captains now have Radio Location?? No dd can now sneak and torp them without being detected from 15+ km. Combination of RL with unlimited planes spares CVs from reconnaissance at the final stages of the game.  Madness. The new bubble of AA protection is abysmal, fixed non-expanding range and non-overlapping  for short-midium-long range?

I have already sold my favorite Kagero, now nerfed additionally beyond playability with only short range AA defense, in addition to her slow speed, slow gun fire, thousands of radars there.

North Carolina too - she  is a joke now with nerfed AA defense, used to be the symbol of the AA defense before.

Many other to follow the mass sale from my port, now testing every ship.

3-4 ships will remain at port to play with I guess.

If I continue to play.

 

 

[AtotheK101]

It sounds weird that Im saying that but Arms race ranked is kind of a relief at the moment. I was negative about it in the first place but the 6 vs 6 format makes it quite good to play. WG also improved the mode itsself and got rid of too many random factors.

So if u have no fun in randoms anymore that maybe a way to go for the time being.

[Tubit101]

I think that possibly the biggest mistake was to mostly not have anything in the game negatively affect CVs in any lasting way. This sets them apart from every other ship in the game. CVs can sit in virtual safety and launch planes. If one squadron is shot down, you can pretty much immediately launch another. If other ships make mistakes, they usually pay in loss of hitpoints and ship modules and sooner or later their ship is gone. With CVs, this entire mechanic is missing. This is obviously unbalanced and out of tune with the rest of the game.

 

From watching a lot of CV games streamed on twitch, the only thing that CVs do is to launch a squadron. Fly to an easy target as fast as possible -> make attack runs -> eventually get the squadron destroyed -> repeat. It is simply a race against time to inflict as much damage as possible. This seems like an extremely one-dimensional playstyle - while the presence of a CV imposes a multitude of events to juggle and react to for other ships. These other ships already had a lot on their plate from before. This seems very unbalanced. CVs are basically not challenged beyond having to dodge flak, despite causing a lot of issues for others.

 

Because of the ample squadron availability, the strategic drawback of losing a plane squadron is pretty much meaningless - which has turned every plane squadron into a kamikaze squadron. Every squadron run is a suicide run without any real negative consequence for the CV.

 

The squadron speed also seems faster then it used to be. It seems that CVs are keeping a very large number of units spotted while they continuously fly into the enemy. This has lessened the value of spotting from other units significantly. It has also significantly reduced the possibilities of ships that rely on concealment to perform their intended roles.

 

The addition of rockets has made it easier to hit destroyers from planes. Destroyers are now the preferred targets of CVs, because of their limited anti air capabilities. The reduction in stealth and continual harassment to destroyers by CVs has resulted in a significant drop in destroyers fielded each game.

 

There are a lot of other negative aspects to CVs, but I'll leave it at this for now. This rework has so far been a disappointment. All in all, CVs are currently a bigger drawback than an addition to a positive game experience.

[almtrain]

I think cudos for WG taking such a big risk by changing so much in an already established game. Not many other developers have the guts to do something like that. 

The CV change is definately not balanced yet but it might not be a damage values and numbers problem as most of you suggest (AA way to strong now and similar). Consider, while non CV players know how to play their ships, CV players don't know how to play yet. So ofc CV players first need to learn for a hundred games or so until we actually see how well the game is balanced. 

On another note, now I feel at least we have a chance that the CV non CV ship balance is possible. Before, we just settled with the balance is broken. 

Give it some time. dont be so harsh in you critisism on the first day after release!

 

[AtotheK101]

1 minute ago, almtrain said:

I think cudos for WG taking such a big risk by changing so much in an already established game. Not many other developers have the guts to do something like that. 

The CV change is definately not balanced yet but it might not be a damage values and numbers problem as most of you suggest (AA way to strong now and similar). Consider, while non CV players know how to play their ships, CV players don't know how to play yet. So ofc CV players first need to learn for a hundred games or so until we actually see how well the game is balanced. 

On another note, now I feel at least we have a chance that the CV non CV ship balance is possible. Before, we just settled with the balance is broken. 

Give it some time. dont be so harsh in you critisism on the first day after release!

 

Thats not true. The players that were good at CVs before showed already the capabilities of the Cv rework. And they know what they are doing. So in terms of balancing u dont need the mass to get better u need to see what these good players are already able to do. And thats massive. On a same level like before and with more CVs in the game its really tough for other ship classes to perform. Especially for ships that rely on concealment.

 

You are only right in the way that WG needs some time to figure out how to balance it.

[almtrain]

Well you make a good point at looking at the top players for knowing how to balance in the future. As WG you also have to cater for people that dont know how to CV and begin playing them with 8.0 because of the hype. These players need to have the ability to have some impact while they learn.

Maybee a good approach for WG to balance would be:
1. Make low tier CVs stronger, because more noobs will play them and need to not be super frustrated.

2. Make high tier CVs weaker, because better or even pro players will know what they are doing.

[AtotheK101]

2 minutes ago, almtrain said:

Well you make a good point at looking at the top players for knowing how to balance in the future. As WG you also have to cater for people that dont know how to CV and begin playing them with 8.0 because of the hype. These players need to have the ability to have some impact while they learn.

Maybee a good approach for WG to balance would be:
1. Make low tier CVs stronger, because more noobs will play them and need to not be super frustrated.

2. Make high tier CVs weaker, because better or even pro players will know what they are doing.

My expierence is that people who are bad at the game (CVs) normally dont have the will to invest the time to learn stuff. Not all but most of them. So I dont think thats ingeneral a good idea. But its only my opinion and from what I see on the high seas every day.

Btw I just hopped into Coop battles to try the CVs out since I didnt play PTS. Thats the easiest way to learn it without annoying your team. ;)

[Constantijn2]

2 hours ago, mr_penguin9508 said:

my game freezes every time i exit a battle so i then have to end process with task manager and restart the client if i want to play another battle. Only started happening after 0.8.0. Might just be my crappy laptop not being able to take it after the new patch but i kinda doubt it.

Indeed that has probably more to do with your pc (or laptop). Try updating your drivers, might help. If it doesn't go to WG for tech support.
Mention it in the bug report channel as well. If there's multiple people it might be a bug. They'll fix it.

[Constantijn2]

I haven't really tried CVs yet in the new patch (played a few battles, but not enough to form a good opinion). But as far as I can see CV gameplay is generally quite boring. There should probably be some more interaction between CVs.
As far as interaction between CVs and other types is concerned I'm actually satisfied. That doesn't exclude the fact that there's still some balancing to do of course. Some nations just have too weak AA to actually be (decently) effective against strikes.
One thing I've noticed is this, battles are for now really passive. CVs excel at spotting the enemy team early which makes everyone play very cautious. Because of the enormous amount of CVs right now, nearly all battles have this problem. But I'm sure once people get used to it and the rush has faded a little the problem will resolve itself.

One more thing: please change the concealment bloom time after firing back to what it was before 0.8.0.

[QiSky]

Hope some1 read this topic.

Some1 in wows team not a players.

U destroy cv in my opinion.
Its impossible to do this, before update i have >10 ore more torps hits / battle in co-op (i hate normal battle) with 1, 2 or 3x kills in my Ranger and now i have 2x torps / battle maxim with zero kills. No1 tell u we play WOWS bcz i dont want to play world of aircraft ? If i want to play air i play air simulator not ships simulator.

 

Realy, with every battle im frustrated, i want to sell all my cv.... its impossible to play with them. In co-op its impossible, not mention real battle vs skills players. I think there ill have ZERO hits.

 

Of course, no1 care whats our oppinion.
Because I criticized this update im waiting ill be ban o forum. Like other time when i told how u destroy game in co-op with all team comp who suicide..... that is, u dont like real oppinion, u need only "like" here and in the game.

Super sad whats happend, never think update can be worse than initial game.
To the end, i bet 90% cv players cant play their cv (in all battles co-op no1 other players done better than me with cv, every1 crying from lost cvs). So its best of the best in a game. To do something unfriendly players its a great job, what can i tell ? 

[QiSky]

1 hour ago, AtotheK101 said:

My expierence is that people who are bad at the game (CVs) normally dont have the will to invest the time to learn stuff. Not all but most of them. So I dont think thats ingeneral a good idea. But its only my opinion and from what I see on the high seas every day.

Btw I just hopped into Coop battles to try the CVs out since I didnt play PTS. Thats the easiest way to learn it without annoying your team. ;)

I want to learn but cant. Realy cant. Now cv its not ships battle with air.... its air simulator with super hard controls. Before update i have >10 or more torps hits always (in Ranger cv, co-op battles), now i have 2x torps max / battle no mater how i can manage it.

Before update i was on top 3 in all co-op battles, now i am last always, normal bcz in many battles i have ZERO damage. 
In ranger, can u imagine that ?

Its worse update i ever seen and i play wows since beta.
Never imagine admins destroy cv but now i see they can do that.

After update to play dd vs cv its super easy, they cant hit u, hit only 5, max 10%..... before update to play in dd vs cv was a real pain, huge damm and easy hits dd.
Succes on co-op. Ull see i tell u truth.

[Constantijn2]

2 minutes ago, QiSky said:

I want to learn but cant. Realy cant. Now cv its not ships battle with air.... its air simulator with super hard controls. Before update i have >10 or more torps hits always (in Ranger cv, co-op battles), now i have 2x torps max / battle no mater how i can manage it.

Before update i was on top 3 in all co-op battles, now i am last always, normal bcz in many battles i have ZERO damage. 
In ranger, can u imagine that ?

Its worse update i ever seen and i play wows since beta.
Never imagine admins destroy cv but now i see they can do that.

After update to play dd vs cv its super easy, they cant hit u, hit only 5, max 10%..... before update to play in dd vs cv was a real pain, huge damm and easy hits dd.
Succes on co-op. Ull see i tell u truth.

That's exactly the point of "learning". You have to invest time to get better. Don't expect it to happen instantly.
As they say: "Practice makes perfect". I'm sure if you keep at it you'll eventually be back on your previous level. Everyone right now has to get used to the new controls. I'm sure there's other people that are struggling with it, but just keep practising and you'll be fine.

[QiSky]

8 minutes ago, Constantijn2 said:

That's exactly the point of "learning". You have to invest time to get better. Don't expect it to happen instantly.
As they say: "Practice makes perfect". I'm sure if you keep at it you'll eventually be back on your previous level. Everyone right now has to get used to the new controls. I'm sure there's other people that are struggling with it, but just keep practising and you'll be fine.

Invest time = lose of time.
Real life time. MY REAL LIFE.
Do have what ?

Few ppl tell that but a game must be FUN and easy to play. To have friendly interface game-player and can be easy to learn by every1. I learn to play cv in 1 day. After 5x or 6x youtube i understand dinamyc and strategy. After that i can hit ships every atack. Now im trying hard to control planes (not ship) and im thinking why i not play battle of warplane.... its the same.

All other players in co-op have the same problems, no1 understand why its worse and worse that game. Why its so unfriendly ?

Sad, but i dont want cv anymore.
I play my shima, my kamikaze, maybe musashi and thats all.
Realy i dont want to lose my life to understand a game (with cv) bcz its an bad concept from start.
Sure ull understand me after 10 or 20 co-op battles. Speak with team cv and ull see real oppinion, >75% want to quite cv and never use it again. And i understand all, no1 wants pain when play a game who must be fun not complicate or bad.

[Maty83_Cz]

HUGE MISTAKE SPOTTED

I admit I have screwed up on one of the polls since there was no "None of the above" options and it was a mandatory field to fill. This will screw with the results quite a bit

[The_Norwood]

The game is now run entirely by the CVs. All other ships are just frightened rabbits desperately trying to get concealment back, usually ending up with the majority of the team running into the spawn border in their efforts. Aggressive play has disappeared entirely, with camping becoming the preferred gameplay merely to survive the first 2 minutes.

My entire clan has retreated to ranked battles until this changes, they hate it so much. Nobody plays DDs anymore as it is just plain stressful and no fun at all.

The game has become World Of Carriers, with the rest of the ships just being something for CVs to kill.