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Atankean

CV Rework First Impressions (completely biased towards my own opinions)

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Hi Gang,

 

now that the smoke of the "catastrophe" that the CV Rework was "prohesized" to be, has lifted somewhat, I thought I would give my own FIRST impressions (please do take note that these are my opinions and mine only. I have played a very few games and just want to communicate how ONE average player received the changes).

 

After the update finished and I got into the game. First thing to check was what has changed in my Harbor? Before the change I had only one Carrier who was mostly collecting dust (the Independence former US Tier 6). Back in the very beginnings of WoWS, I decided that I would not go both lines but choose one and I choose the US line (bad choice as it turned out later). My decisions was mainly because the US Carriers had less Squadrons and since my reflexes were not what they once was, I choose the line that promised "less stress".

 

I must admit though that the whole RTS gameplay never really catched on with me. I mention this so you understand that I was not completely against the rework. I was mostly neutral about it.

 

Now, after checking everything I decided to play the Ranger (the now Tier 6 US CV) and see for myself this "dreaded Game Ender".

 

I jumped into a Co-Op game naturally because there I could screw things up without ruining someones day (except mine as it turned out :) ). I dont know if I was "fast" with updating or the others were busy playing random but the very first match was me and another player controlled CV with and against only bots. Co-Op was pretty empty at the time.

 

We lost, catastrophically, with nearly no damage done by me. I found myself losing planes left and right, missing shots and if I hit something by "accident" not doing much of damage. Bad Start. Second game was even worse. I was alone against bots and could not do jack. I lost whole squadrons instantly without knowing why and how.

 

My first Impression CVs:

 

- Holy Jesus it was painful.

 

Took a break then. Went into forum, tried to "recollect" myself and got back into the game. This time however, I did not play CVs. Instead I played around with Commander Skills and took a few other ships into battle. Also to look at the "Air threat" levels. I got attacked a couple times by CVs but the effects were..negligible. So much so that I did not even felt necessary to take preemptive action (like changing route) when I saw a plane squadron coming at me. They felt like a Tiger who had lost his claws and teeth. However, it should be noted that many players are still getting used to the CVs and I dont expect that to remain like that.

 

So here my first impressions regarding ships against CVs:

 

- CVs not the same threat as they were before (much much less)

- in a game with 2 or 3 CVs on each side, concealment skills for BBs is nigh worthless. There are always squadrons flying around the map and since they never go out of planes it is quite possible to be nearly "permaspotted" as a BB (This is good and bad but more on that later*)

- if you get close to enemy CV itself with a DD, his chances of successfully defending himself are (probably much) lower.

 

After another break I went back to the CV and played a couple more Co-Op matches. It still went mostly bad but after a few more, I felt confident enough to start my first Random. So I did. It went well enough considering how I struggled before. I did something around 70k damage and although I died to an enemy dd in the end, it was (dare I say it) fun...sort of :).

 

So my impressions on the "second round":

 

- CVs ARE not as good as they were before (this is not a bad thing though, thinking how CVs were at least borderline OP before)

- they also have much less impact on the game (even the most super of unicums will not reach the levels that the same unicums could reach before)

- but CVs have a lot of potential

- the "dumbed down" mechanics that were my very first impressions, may turn out not as much "dumbed down" as I thought. There is certainly room for strategies and techniques of gameplay.

- I need definitely more games and more time to reach a feasible conclusion. For myself at the least, let alone telling others.

 

So basically, after the second round. I think CV Rework might actually work out. As I said, there IS potential and maybe WG will have to adjust some or some more parameters but the general skeleton of the rework is not as bad as I first thought. My impressions are enough for me to give it a little more time. After the second round at least, I went back from "frustrated" to "neutral" and I am curious how this will turn out.

 

*the spotting of BBs might cause some problems for some IF the meta has sufficient CVs regularly in the game. It will be of no consequence if nobody plays CVs of course but I will assume that CVs somehow "catch on". In that case, the reason why I dont consider this "only bad" is, with the nerf to concealment expert Commander Skill and the spotting of CVs, BB Captains might try new builds and might even find out new ways to play their ships. I did some testing in my BBs and eliminated concealment expert for another skill and it did not really effected my gameplay badly. However, I need way more matches before I can come to a somewhat useful conclusion on this one.

 

So, that were my first impressions. Feel free to join in if you feel like telling your impressions (preferably civilized but that should go without saying).

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What every player wanted :

> Less CV Alpha strike damage. No more 'Choose and delete with impunity'

> Reduced aircraft spotting range

> More emphasis on air combat as oppose to ship strike

> A better dogfighting system then just trying to clumsily lock the other players fighters in some poorly designed 'strafe insta delete' system which cripples the enemy carrier for the next 3 minutes for a 2 second mistake.

> keep the 'top down' ''rts'' esque gameplay intact.

> A better relationship between aircraft and AA. Some ships literally could do nothing to defend themselves. Others could destroy your entire air wing in less then 5 seconds. Find some middle ground.

 

What we got :

> Carriers went from doing the same damage as a BB Multi Critadel salvo, to doing the same type of Damage a Khebab does spamming HE at you. It went from disgustingly insta-deathy to tedious infuriating chip damage and permafire abuse.

> Dogfighting is just... i don't even know what it is. Fighters may aswell not even be in the game anymore and CV's are just strike only now.

> Aircraft spotting is still rife.

> AA 'range zones' are just.. ugh.. It literally feels like the worse your AA is the better it is now. Also if a ships short range AA is destroyed, Its literally safer to just hover your planes above him then it is to have them at a distance.. like.. whut? Haha.

> To quote another user on the forums, I forgot his name and where i seen it, so if you read this full credit goes to you good sir, ''Our oerlikons are now in range, Lets stop firing'' - said no Bofors or PomPom crew ever.

> DD's are now borderline useless. Just get permaspotted and butchered by aircraft that can make multiple runs and keep them spotted for ages.

> Infinite planes is stupid

> planes flying at orbital speeds around the map is stupid

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38 minutes ago, Atankean said:

So my impressions on the "second round":

 

- CVs ARE not as good as they were before (this is not a bad thing though, thinking how CVs were at least borderline OP before)

- they also have much less impact on the game (even the most super of unicums will not reach the levels that the same unicums could reach before)

 

You've not heard of @El2aZeR have you?

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2 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

You've not heard of @El2aZeR have you?

 

I'd like to see some pros using new carriers with great effectiveness.
I did try them on CBT, didn't really like them, stopped playing them, but it was against bots anyway so...
I'm really curious about how good will they fare against real players in randoms and how useful will they be (they sure as hell ain't that much of a fun).

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7 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

''Our oerlikons are now in range, Lets stop firing'' - said no Bofors or PomPom crew ever.

I thought this was magnificent, and am similarly embarrassed to say I can't remember whose turn of phrase it was either (sorry!).

 

Although I'm still at work for another hour and a half, so haven't played yet, I do find the principle of the new AA zones wildly counter-intuitive - I've no idea about how historical or not it is, but it strikes me as mental to think that AA *wouldn't* get heavier and heavier the closer you get to a ship.

 

I strongly suspect that WG will have to ditch this at some point, and tweak the numbers accordingly (unless they never want to sell another Atlanta ever again, for example)...

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1 minute ago, cro_pwr said:

 

I'd like to see some pros using new carriers with great effectiveness.
I did try them on CBT, didn't really like them, stopped playing them, but it was against bots anyway so...
I'm really curious about how good will they fare against real players in randoms and how useful will they be (they sure as hell ain't that much of a fun).

 

I played 11 games in T10 DD on PT, if you were cautions and the CV were potatoes then it was just about playable, as soon as you went up against one who knew what he was doing then no.

 

Bear in mind that most of those battles were T10 only and AA heavy ships, on live against top tier CV, god help you.

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It's updates like this which make you wonder if they are ever really tested, it's garbage and has virtually deleted DD's as a playable class.

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9 minutes ago, cro_pwr said:

I'd like to see some pros using new carriers with great effectiveness.

 

My most recent game of the day:

Spoiler

KPAJNhA.jpg

Why9nt0.jpg

lVBXwIB.jpg

 

Only lost once today because my teammates all went greedy af and threw the match by all going for a CV.

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Just now, Jontys_Corner said:

It's updates like this which make you wonder if they are ever really tested, it's garbage and has virtually deleted DD's as a playable class.

 

What's for sure is that they never listen to what's said on these forums, because this is exactly what everyone who knew what they were talking about said.

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4 minutes ago, Jontys_Corner said:

It's updates like this which make you wonder if they are ever really tested, it's garbage and has virtually deleted DD's as a playable class.

Uhm seems you didn't get the memo. This purpose of this whole update is to use you as a test guinea pig for the CV Rework. No i am not being sarcastic.

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[TORAZ]
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Also @Saiyko and me got caught on the official stream:

Spoiler

 

 

You can almost feel how much fun Lumberjack is having. :Smile_trollface:

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wtf happened to hard grinded legendary upgrades on t10 cvs??? just vanished..... fkcfkfkfckfkcfkfkfckfkfccfkfckfckckfyouuouuuuuu

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21 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Also @Saiyko and me got caught on the official stream:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

You can almost feel how much fun Lumberjack is having. :Smile_trollface:

 

And therein lies the problem, the biggest change to the game ever goes live and WG staff haven't played enough to master even the basics.

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Yeah that is a little worrying that even their own staff don't really know how to play the new carriers.

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6 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

And therein lies the problem, the biggest change to the game ever goes live and WG staff haven't played enough to master even the basics.

Also, right before that vid starts, he almost begs for us to leave comments and ideas on the forums. We're not only beta testers, but also dev consultants.

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Its possible to just ignore a carrier attack, especially if you are a BB. I`ve watched several carrier torpedoes impact ships only to do such small damage that I can only just barely see a move of the health bar. I and others have done testing on static targets in the training room and a carrier is simply unable to kill a helpless target in a reasonable time, which makes very little sense.

 

If its impossible to do good damage to a helpless target, then attacking mobile, flack firing targets is largely pointless. May as well play a cruiser and spam shots every 6 or so seconds, for 5 times the damage that planes can do. This is why all the carriers are now picking on DD targets - its the only target they can actually take out of the game and that's pretty sad and no good for destroyer captains either, its the worst of both gameplay worlds.

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28 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

And therein lies the problem, the biggest change to the game ever goes live and WG staff haven't played enough to master even the basics.

I dont think WGs limitless incompetence can surprise me anymore.

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

My most recent game of the day:

  Hide contents

KPAJNhA.jpg

Why9nt0.jpg

lVBXwIB.jpg

 

Only lost once today because my teammates all went greedy af and threw the match by all going for a CV.

Alright. Teach me.

 

I really can't do big damage with Midway. Best I did today was 140k.

 

My first impression is :

- AA is okay... ONLY on the first strike. When you get out of your first drop, for some reason the flaks seems totally impossible to dodge and you get f*cked. Dodge in, can't dodge out. Why ?

- Midway TBs are useless. Period. Torps that do 5400 damage maximum, no reliable flooding chance, and the skill required to make a good drop is waaaaaaaayyyyy too high compared to the rewards. I basically stopped using them unless I find some moron sitting in reverse alone.
- Which bring me with to that super stupid TB drop mechanic. Game reward your for dodging, which is a very good idea... so why do we need to attack in a suuuuuuper loooooong straight line with super slow torp and super long activation range ? Any cruiser/BB player with half a brain is absolutely impossible to TB drop. In the worse case he take 5k damage he can just shrug off.
- Rockets planes deals ridiculously low damage, but they are the bane of DDs. It's a new level of harassment. They just can't play. Even with dAA, I toyed with Grozovoi. I straight up murdered an Akizuki player as well. Didn't kill him but he lost half his HP in the first minute.

- Which bring me to the spotting ability. It's off the chart. It's ridiculous.

- DB with HE seems the only "reliable" source of damage. Even then, it does at best 15k damage and 2 fires. You just CAN'T punish a player for a bad move with a 50k drop like in the past, and like any other classes can do. Broadside a Yamato and you get deleted. Sail in a straight line alone with your AA desactivated and Midway will take 3 minutes to kill you.

- Fire chance is super unreliable again. At least give us DoT if we can't have the alpha... 

 

My last game today, we were Haku+Midway vs Haku+Midway and everything else was dead. That was one of the most boring end of match ever. We won because we had more caps. We fought each other with 0 damage bomb drop (because armored deck, heh), 5k damage torpedoes and 3k damage rockets... 

 

On the plus side :

+ I admit I find those CV fun. Though they kind of ruin the game of everyone else

+ Giving actual LOS and detectability to plane is a great idea. I love the fact you can now use islands to hide your attack strike.

+ The flak dodging is a really great mechanic. 

 

What I would do to improve this :

> Give alpha or DoT. One of the two. But not neither like it is right now.

> AA is ok but losing one half of a squadron when you get out of a zero damage drop is super stupid. You can get in, you can't get out.
> Give dAA to all DDs.

> Less AA to BBs.
> More AA to most cruisers.
> NO DOUBLE CV PER TEAM IN HIGH TIER. PLEASE. IT'S NOT FUN. CV can't farm damage at all, while everyone is permaspotted, DD can't play, everyone have to form a huge bubble... it's stupid.

> Introduce a one minute delay for the first plane launch of every match, exactly like the old CV. Being able to spot the entire enemy team one minute into the game is broken. At least let the players build their opening tactic.

 

I'll probably buy the Hakuryuu tomorrow or in the next few days.

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Well, imo carriers turned into utter meaningless garbage. It took me a hefty 8 minutes of constant bombardment, torpedo attacks and strafing runs with rockets to take down a Jean Bart in Midway that came over a flank. The damage output is laughable, it takes way too much time to do any meaningful dmg and it seems that even DD AA totaly shredds your planes. Ended the game with 46k dmg in 10 minutes.

 

Next game i managed to do a hefty 13k dmg since the enemy was a huge blob and my planes just exploded as soon as they got spotted. 13k the entire game, with a tier 10 carrier. Go figure. Old Midway did more dmg in one single good strike. 

 

Game after that i do a torp run on a Montana that is on 4000 hp. A torp hits as the other planes died, poof, 3200 dmg. He sails away and repairs. Uhm. Those torps feel like throwing candy bars at battleships, absolutely worthless as a divebomb attack or even rocket attack deal more dmg and are way easier to execute.

 

And mind you, im Super Unicum on most of my carriers .. 

 

Right now, it feels like carriers got degraded to nice eyecandy, and have absolutely 0 carry potential. 

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39 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Alright. Teach me.

 

Generally speaking though you want to misdirect AA into shooting where you don't want to go.

Kinda like this:

Spoiler

1548976811670189.gif

 

Those top bubbles are aimed directly at you just like AA, so just send them somewhere where you are not going to be.

This includes when you are exiting your attack, turn immediately after you drop as otherwise your squad will continue on their path, making them susceptible flak bursts.

Also do not slow down immediately as that can make flak spawn almost directly on top of you.

 

Midway torps are practically useless against everything but BBs and CVs. Their reticle is now ridiculously sensitive and their distance to drop has been increased so cross dropping is more difficult (but still possible). Personally I only use them against CVs as your bombs and rockets shatter on the armored flight deck (if you have to use those aim for the island). Spam rockets and bombs against everything else.

If you get a bit of practice in it HE DBs are devastatingly effective against DDs too, being easily able to shave off half their health in one attack.

 

I found that fires are still pretty easy to get with HE DBs. Somewhat more unreliable with rockets now but it still happens often enough.

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13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

1548976811670189.gif

 

Those top bubbles are aimed directly at you just like AA, so just send them somewhere where you are not going to be.

Yes.

All makes sense now :Smile_amazed:

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Well mr. conway showed himself that a dds is helpless. Think it was a grozovoi he killed in 2 attacks. Not sure what the guy should do. You can not avoid being hit and 3-5 k damage in each attack run is devastating for a dds. Plus you get spotted. Smoke up is only chance but that will go away.

 

Played a match today with no destroyers on each side...has never tried that before. Rest of matches was 1 destroyer and only 2 if we picked 2 destroyers in the division. 

 

Smoked up not far from CVs in Asashio but got torped. They can easy just spam torps into smoke. You can really not do much since you have no speed and will lay broadside if unlucky to the torp drops.

 

Was close lumber jack said..this is not right. But he did not. Came up with other excuses. Destroyers are in a bad shape right now.

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Today I sold all my CVs, including the premium ones. This rework killed the whole class for me. WG can tweak this mess all they like; I will have no part in it.

I do hope there will be something in the future that I can spend 82k doubloons on...

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4 hours ago, Atankean said:

 

- CVs ARE not as good as they were before (this is not a bad thing though, thinking how CVs were at least borderline OP before)

- they also have much less impact on the game (even the most super of unicums will not reach the levels that the same unicums could reach before)

- but CVs have a lot of potential

- the "dumbed down" mechanics that were my very first impressions, may turn out not as much "dumbed down" as I thought. There is certainly room for strategies and techniques of gameplay.

- I need definitely more games and more time to reach a feasible conclusion. For myself at the least, let alone telling others.

 

So basically, after the second round. I think CV Rework might actually work out.

excellent posting there! yeah, in the past CV's were far too strong (manual torp drops 15x in square some 10 metres from a ship????...no chance at all for other ships: so many players did not like that (me included), actually hated those CV's in the past.

 

Now we have 8.0 update, so much changed and I think for the better(!): battles are even more vibrant now (= good for the game). I went playing IJN carrier Ryujo (VI) while I never ever played any cv's in the past (hated them in the past, lol)...yeah, takes time to get the hang of it, meaning I have ta learn a lot and I know that. So yes, I also went to Co-op for getting some experience + I watched vids made by WG (lots of info in there, excellent). I think i will need much more battles + inhale more info (vids WG + YT) before I get better at it. So yeah, takes time, np. Grahics are simply great and CV's are now playable by majority of playerbase and that is excellent.

 

In past CV's high tiers could only be succesfully played by just a handfull of unicum-cv-players which were being able to fully decide (=ruin!) battles on their own (they could so easily destroy every ship they wanted), so, now, I guess it is mostly them we see now commenting on forums so negatively, lol, cuz they lost there immense and at the same time very unsportive close to demi-god-cv-powers, lol (...bit biased of them?...i think so, lol)

 

imho 8.0 proves great vision into future by WG: it will in time prove to be very great for our game. we just have to give it some time for players to adapt to all new game mechanisms. In the past CV's were kind of stagnating progress of our already great game, and now, with 8.0 cv's reachable/playable for the masses, well, the sky is the limit now (70k+ active logged-in eu-server playerbase in future?...i guess so, yeah). As for my other shipclasses (such as BB etc.)  i played as from 8.0: i can stay i much like the extra vibrant action 8.0 injected in the game. So much nice action, so vibrant, yeah i like it! So, my other ships are doing real ok (i like those battles) and Ryujo (VI), well, me, I have ta learn a lot yet before i am gonna do well with it, ohh yes, lol

 

So yeah, give it time & adapt and in the mean time just enjoy the great vibrant extra entertainment 8.0 injected in our already great game! Bye & cheers!

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