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loppantorkel

First impressions - patch 0.8

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1. 2 cvs per side every game

2. People in general are more passive because they, including me, don't know standard plays to the same degree. Where to go, what to do, what support to bring, how to counter situations.

3. I still click ctrl and try to manually target enemy squadrons. I kind of liked that manual feature. It cost some focus from other things.

4. The game is still very playable as none cv ships. Although, I've kept to mostly American ships with decent AA. In those it was decent fun, comparable to before.

5. Less blaps from cvs now and more harassing attacks - prolonged damage and maybe a bit more reliant on teammates to continue the damage over time.

6. So far I didn't feel that cvs played a major role in most battles aside from the increased spotting, compared to no cvs.

7. Fighter planes on ships seems effective... ..maybe more so than def AA, or maybe I just didn't pay attention.

8. I'll continue playing, but I'll probably choose my ships until the worst cv hysteria has died out.

 

edit:

9. I completely missed the directional AA feature. I'm probably not alone in this.

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1. Lemming train or lose

2. DD flanking and sneaky attacks - gone

3. Whole lines lost their purpose, for example  French BBs and CAs  who are excellent flankers.  If you try to flank, you get detected early and focused by CVs. 

4. Only at average 1 DD per game, none going to cap. If they go, they usually die quickly

5. CV gameplay repetitive and boring as f..k

6. Meta is now a slug fest between two blob of ships at 20 km - static and boring.

 

And yes, I am a bit disappointed, although this was expected and many of us have warned about it. 

 

But, I allow that some people might enjoy new meta, however it is not my cup of tea. 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

1. Lemming train or lose

2. DD flanking and sneaky attacks - gone

3. Whole lines lost their purpose, for example  French BBs and CAs  who are excellent flankers.  If you try to flank, you get detected early and focused by CVs. 

4. Only at average 1 DD per game, none going to cap. If they go, they usually die quickly

5. CV gameplay repetitive and boring as f..k

6. Meta is now a slug fest between two blob of ships at 20 km - static and boring.

 

And yes, I am a bit disappointed, although this was expected and many of us have warned about it. 

 

But, I allow that some people might enjoy new meta, however it is not my cup of tea.

1. I doubt this will be the meta. I haven't seen cvs good enough to warrant lemmingtraining.

2. Cvs always made this tougher. Same as before. Maybe less so when only one cv per side, eventually.

3. This is just a balancing issue and it's not like you weren't punished by Hakuryus or Midways before if you tried it.

4. This is only temporarily.

5. Yes, maybe, idk. It's not for me.

6. I doubt this will be the meta when it's all balanced and done.

 

It's just the first day and things will be balanced for the better. We'll see if it turns out good or not in a few months.

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1 minute ago, loppantorkel said:

1. I doubt this will be the meta. I haven't seen cvs good enough to warrant lemmingtraining.

2. Cvs always made this tougher. Same as before. Maybe less so when only one cv per side, eventually.

3. This is just a balancing issue and it's not like you weren't punished by Hakuryus or Midways before if you tried it.

4. This is only temporarily.

5. Yes, maybe, idk. It's not for me.

6. I doubt this will be the meta when it's all balanced and done.

 

It's just the first day and things will be balanced for the better. We'll see if it turns out good or not in a few months.

All I can say, is that I hope you are right and that I am wrong.

 

I have really enjoyed this game, met some online friends through it, supported it by buying pixel ships and invested time to learn it. If it stays like this, I am afraid that the fun might be over for me. 

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1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

1. 2 cvs per side every game

Yes, and very annoying. Quite dispiriting getting to the end of a tough game in Huang He with 4k health left but thinking "I can still get into a good attacking position, take a cap, smoke up and set fires on a BB, if I'm careful", knowing that I'm one BB salvo from being back in port. But....there's a CV on the other side of the map who has had zero reduction in his health or combat powers over the course of the game, and who can spot or shoot me as he wishes, with no comeback. Game Over. Less Fun. 

 

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

2. People in general are more passive because they, including me, don't know standard plays to the same degree. Where to go, what to do, what support to bring, how to counter situations.

What's the difference between a unicum and a potato? One understands what they're doing and why. Now they're both clueless. The meta has been smashed to bits and people aren't sure what to do. As a member of the thoroughly mediocre and slightly baffled, I'm thrilled - they're all as confused as me! - but I'm not sure it's good for the game. 

 

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

3. I still click ctrl and try to manually target enemy squadrons. I kind of liked that manual feature. It cost some focus from other things.

Much better than that sector reinforcement rubbish. Can you imagine if torpedoes worked like that?

 

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

4. The game is still very playable as none cv ships. Although, I've kept to mostly American ships with decent AA. In those it was decent fun, comparable to before.

It felt good when the CVs were in their corner doing something else to someone else. We had a normal game in their absence.

 

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

5. Less blaps from cvs now and more harassing attacks - prolonged damage and maybe a bit more reliant on teammates to continue the damage over time.

Too much spotting, I'm afraid. There is no point in bringing a ship with good concealment if you can't smoke up and hide from the planes. Huang He/Leander are massively buffed compared to other Tier VI cruisers because they can go dark in their smoke. RN DDs the same. 

 

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

7. Fighter planes on ships seems effective... ..maybe more so than def AA, or maybe I just didn't pay attention.

They are effective, but they're an embarrassing bodge. Give us proper AA. 

 

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

I'll continue playing, but I'll probably choose my ships until the worst cv hysteria has died out

I definitely felt like this is the death of the DD. I'm not very good at them but they were the most fun to play because of the ninja/knife-fight aspect. Creep around stealthily, turn a corner and get into a sudden death contest. Fun! Now CVs spot you from the moon and they force you out of the front line and into a no-fun zone.

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- 2 CVs each game

- spotting is impossible except by CVs - because it is too dangerous for any other ship to do it (planes travelling at warp speed suddenly turning up and spotting you)

- Any sort of aggressive gameplay is dead for the same reason as above.

- DDs are dead for the same reason

- Gameplay is extremely campy for the same reason.

- Against air attacks, AA is largely useless unless the CV player is a complete newbie, but maneuvering is effective (especially cruisers)

 

 

TL; DR

 

The patch has killed everything i enjoyed about random battles, there is no fun left.

CV play may become fun once i learn it,  and also Ranked remains.

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Lower Tier Carriers, btw. Hilariously awful. Bretagne has decent AA, but she's not Texas. This sort of result wasn't possible yesterday.  

 

image.thumb.png.02b01bcefd1b5127b3a4da774ce56371.png

 

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6 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

- 2 CVs each game

- spotting is impossible except by CVs - because it is too dangerous for any other ship to do it (planes travelling at warp speed suddenly turning up and spotting you)

- Any sort of aggressive gameplay is dead for the same reason as above.

- DDs are dead for the same reason

- Gameplay is extremely campy for the same reason.

- Against air attacks, AA is largely useless unless the CV player is a complete newbie, but maneuvering is effective (especially cruisers)

 

 

TL; DR

 

The patch has killed everything i enjoyed about random battles, there is no fun left.

CV play may become fun once i learn it,  and also Ranked remains.

I agree that the points about spotting and pushing up with dds are potential issues. Kind of the same problem as before when playing dd in cv games. Less fun. Still too early to call Randoms dead though, imo.

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10 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

1. 2 cvs per side every game

2. People in general are more passive because they, including me, don't know standard plays to the same degree. Where to go, what to do, what support to bring, how to counter situations.

3. I still click ctrl and try to manually target enemy squadrons. I kind of liked that manual feature. It cost some focus from other things.

4. The game is still very playable as none cv ships. Although, I've kept to mostly American ships with decent AA. In those it was decent fun, comparable to before.

5. Less blaps from cvs now and more harassing attacks - prolonged damage and maybe a bit more reliant on teammates to continue the damage over time.

6. So far I didn't feel that cvs played a major role in most battles aside from the increased spotting, compared to no cvs.

7. Fighter planes on ships seems effective... ..maybe more so than def AA, or maybe I just didn't pay attention.

8. I'll continue playing, but I'll probably choose my ships until the worst cv hysteria has died out.

 

edit:

9. I completely missed the directional AA feature. I'm probably not alone in this.

this:

"Fighter planes on ships seems effective... ..maybe more so than def AA, or maybe I just didn't pay attention." - Obvious you do not play a Musashi... do that then think again.

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  • CVs are not powerful as they were, I've never seen a single CV as a deciding factor of a battle yesterday
  • It is more fun to play against CVs now
  • No more "Hello ship! Die Ship! Bye ship!"
  • Both high tiers and low tiers seems ok.
  • I played with Mino, that hakuryu planes were just like roasted nuts.
  • I played a couple battles in Harugumo, didn't have too much problems. Killed 17 planes in Harugumo btw :)

 

long story short, My first impressions are good.. Lets wait for people to learn how to play CVs.. and talk again :)

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1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

Kind of the same problem as before when playing dd in cv games. Less fun. Still too early to call Randoms dead though, imo.

That is like saying new year rockets and ICBMs are kind of the same thing.  There is a massive difference in scale.

 

Previously aircraft moved slow and there was plenty of warning time to sail closer to AA cruisers, smoke up or even dodge out of their path entirely.

This patch planes arn't spotted coming in, they just suddenly "warp in" at 6-7 km and spots you.

 

Think about it - this is FIRST IMPRESSIONS

- already dds are rendered unplayable by noobs swanning around in planes they dont know how to control but accidentially permaspotting the dds.

- cruisers like wooster and mino although having effective aa, have problems getting into effective range.

 

Now imagine when CV players learn to actually hit whatever they bomb, and also learn to dodge flak (it is surprisingly easy) and consumables (which gives me huge trouble).

I bombed a Montana in the middle of 3 cruisers and BBs with stock lexington TB for christ sakes (lost half of them and recalled after first strike, but still)

 

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Not fun for me so far. As a dd spotted all the time, AA does nothing. On Roma against Ryujo (T6!!!) was attacked 10 times, got 6 torps, fires, my AA did nothing, you feel powerless against any attack. We won because their other CV (now 2 CVs in T8 battles, how nice is that?) was AFK most of the time.

 

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Played mostly Kidd and some T7-T8 cruisers, and from yesterday's experiences, the AA feels inconsistent. I feel that the flak mechanic needs to be adjusted because the skill gap between CV players is still there and it is still huge. Depending on the skill of the CV player, you will either demolish an entire squadron on their first approach, before planes drop any payload, or the aircraft squadron will dance in several AA umbrellas (some with DFAA on), losing maybe 3-4 planes in all approaches.

 

Hard to say how to balance it... maybe lower the flak dmg and adjust the 'flak box' to make it a bit harder to strike and dodge flak bursts depending on the number of ships currently firing at the aircraft squadron? 

 

Anyways, it is still too early to judge the update but it definitely shook the meta to the core, especially DD play. Will see how it develops...

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DD gameplay is totally ruined,you just cant cap anymore if cv player isnt afk,smoke does not help anymore as cv can now make several runs with torps into your smoke.Flanking also not possible anymore ,same reason.

Now Shima 20km torps may work as they cant be spotted by planes.Thank god there are no cvs in ranked.

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Playing DD's to see how things are now. This is the ship class that gave me the most fun pre 0.8 patch. Is it fun now? Not played enough games yet to truly judge and things need to stabilize. I have already drawn the conclusion that the level of fun this game will provide will be inversely proportional to the number of CV's in a given match. Was the CV game play fun? I played for an hour, and then recouped all the free XP and doubloon values of my premium CV's. I did not really play them in the old system, and could not see me playing them for any real amount of time in the new system. I also do not want to contribute to annoying other players by playing CV's. Used doubloons from premium CV's to buy premium time in tanks. I will use the rest to gamble on the loot boxes. I cannot see any other way to spend the doubloons and there is no point stockpiling doubloons in this game. 

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Never really played CVs before other than a little low-tier meddling. I feel that CVs are somewhat weak, especially when uptiered, however, the new

gameplay is a very welcome addition and a breeze of fresh air. I'm going to come back to my CV now for some change of pace :-).

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Played the Haru..OK game, but very campy. The Aircraft combined with radar could make DD play a very unenjoyable experience. Luckily, in this game they were tier 8 CV's, so my AA munched them. Playing against tier 10 CV's would have been very different/or playing a DD with inferior AA could have been a different story. Basically, it looks like tier 8 CV's cannot hack tier 10 AA. I suspect that you cannot buff tier 8 CV's because that will allow them to annihilate tier 6 ships if they meet them. Having CV's at every other tier looks like a fail. I think the CV rework in general looks like a fail for balance reasons and I cannot see how you can balance them against a certain something, without making them OP against a lower tier target. 

 

At the end of the day, my team folded due to being too passive and hiding and only myself and one other player got over 1000 base XP.  The rest were 600 XP max and below. But that is a whole different issue in the game.

shot-19.02.01_08.42.12-0457.jpg

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I can only speak from a perspective of japanese CVs, but the dive bombers need some love asap IMHO. They're pretty much the plane

type that requires the most skill, but the payoff isnt there. They need a perfect approach for that citadel, torpedo bombers are just way more reliable..

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On 2/1/2019 at 10:00 AM, Gudgeon said:

Played the Haru..OK game, but very campy. The Aircraft combined with radar could make DD play a very unenjoyable experience. Luckily, in this game they were tier 8 CV's, so my AA munched them. Playing against tier 10 CV's would have been very different/or playing a DD with inferior AA could have been a different story. Basically, it looks like tier 8 CV's cannot hack tier 10 AA. I suspect that you cannot buff tier 8 CV's because that will allow them to annihilate tier 6 ships if they meet them. Having CV's at every other tier looks like a fail. I think the CV rework in general looks like a fail for balance reasons and I cannot see how you can balance them against a certain something, without making them OP against a lower tier target.

The cvs are less powerful than before, but there are still issues in gameplay so far.

 

1. Playing dds are still less enjoyable than without cvs, which was expected. Continual harassment if trying to move out or cap is an issue.

2. It tends to lead to more passive games where team blobs up even more than before. Playing Standard games with double cvs has been an interesting experience. Neither team have any inclination to leave their base.

3. There was a tendency before in some games where a few potatoes, often bbs, would leave 'their side' which would result in a lemming train. Before you could try play defence on the off side, kiting away when needed and having a good game. This has become much harder now since friendly cvs tend to join the lemming side. The meta seems destined to more lemmintrains or passive blobs, which isn't good...

 

So far, the cvs are less potent than before, but they tend to herd the enemy ships which leads to less movement, less activity and in the end a less fun meta. We'll see in a few weeks how things settle.

 

edit: Some dds seems okay still. At least the maneuverable and smoke-ready ones. Not sure how well the rest holds up yet.

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First impressions are less dire than I was expecting. I still had fun in my surface ships, although I'm not sure the new CVs are really for me – it's far too repetitive and there are much more enjoyable plane games out there.

 

I think we'll see two processes happening over the next few weeks, and the exact way in which they pan out will largely determine whether the rework makes the game more or less fun overall:

 

1) (some) people will l2p in the new CVs;

2) the hype CV numbers will stabilise at a lower level than they are currently, probably higher than before but likely not every battle.

 

This first fills me with dread – I think they will be considerably easier to master than the old carriers (edit: or, more to the point, any other class). The second makes me hopeful.

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12 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

First impressions are less dire than I was expecting. I still had fun in my surface ships...

I do too, so it's not all bad.

 

One thing I wonder is if it wouldn't be better if cvs only had deep water torps. It hasn't been an issue so far in my dd games, but from what I've seen, there has been a lot less initial capping.

If cvs were launching the initial squads after a small penalty - letting dds into the starting caps before the plane squads get there, and if there was a refuge in the smoke for the cappers (there's already radars and other torps that could hit you), you could get a bit more activity in caps. I'm not sure torp bombers could launch at the start of the match though. Still a lot less capping activity early.

 

Edit: The directional AA is pretty nice. Not sure how effective yet, still trying it out.

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37 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

One thing I wonder is if it wouldn't be better if cvs only had deep water torps. It hasn't been an issue so far in my dd games, but from what I've seen, there has been a lot less initial capping.

I mean, I find the rockets much more scary than torps as a DD, but yes as you say it could make smoke a marginally more effective defence against CVs – depending on presence of radar etc. But then if there's another DD around, I still wouldn't want to spend much time sat in smoke... :cap_hmm:

 

Regarding planes being on top of caps very early, yes maybe some kind of readying-up period at the start would be helpful – maybe 30s or so. But at the same time, it mainly (as far as I can tell) seems to be a problem at high tiers. So maybe those planes just need their speed nerfed quite substantially?

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8 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

I mean, I find the rockets much more scary than torps as a DD, but yes as you say it could make smoke a marginally more effective defence against CVs – depending on presence of radar etc. But then if there's another DD around, I still wouldn't want to spend much time sat in smoke... :cap_hmm:

Ofc, you don't want to sit in that smoke, but during capping when planes are above, it may be preferable to the alternative. The issue with torps is that you'll be chased from your smoke. Otoh, maybe you should just eat a torp or two instead of abandoning the smoke. Maybe I'm stuck in the old thinking.... I'll have to try catch a torp and see :cap_hmm:

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