The Mutsuki (T6 Japanese Destroyer)

[Takeda92]

I personally found the upgraded guns on Mutsuki not so good against DDs compared to the 4 guns of Mutsuki and Minekaze (if you have the captain skill that increases your turret rotation). 

 

Mutsuki is good at capping and AA, this make her very good in domination matches but not so much in 2-point matches where there's little capping to be done. What saddens me is that Minekaze is still better at capping because she's faster and has the same detection. WG shouldn't have nerfed Mutsuki's stealth the same as Minekaze.

[T_H_0_R]

I personally found the upgraded guns on Mutsuki not so good against DDs compared to the 4 guns of Mutsuki and Minekaze (if you have the captain skill that increases your turret rotation). 

 

Mutsuki is good at capping and AA, this make her very good in domination matches but not so much in 2-point matches where there's little capping to be done. What saddens me is that Minekaze is still better at capping because she's faster and has the same detection. WG shouldn't have nerfed Mutsuki's stealth the same as Minekaze.

 

I disagree. In a close duel with stock Mutsuki or Minekaze I will always win with my two fast rotating guns on Hull C. At that close range where knife fights usually happen, you are avoiding torpedoes and incoming shell fire = maneuvering hard. Mutsuki can keep its two fast rotating guns on target while Minekaze is hopelessly lost here having to turn the whole ship to fire his 4 guns on me. By the time he realizes that, its GG and he is swimming with the fishes.

 

Those two guns are ideal for finishing off USN or RU DDs on low HP. Usually one or two shots will suffice. I've surprised many of them, since people in general treat Mutsuki as garbage only to be surprised what you can do with her. I am already deadly with it, and soon I'll have that 5th row skill on mine.

[_Flyto_]

 

I disagree. In a close duel with stock Mutsuki or Minekaze I will always win with my two fast rotating guns on Hull C. At that close range where knife fights usually happen, you are avoiding torpedoes and incoming shell fire = maneuvering hard. Mutsuki can keep its two fast rotating guns on target while Minekaze is hopelessly lost here having to turn the whole ship to fire his 4 guns on me. By the time he realizes that, its GG and he is swimming with the fishes.

 

Agreed. If you know (or suspect) in advance where the target is, and can get the Minekaze's guns pointed that way in advance, it can certainly put more damage downrange. I finished off an enemy DD that way yesterday :-) But in an unexpected encounter, or any encounter that goes on beyond that first shot and thus involves manoeuvring, the problem is not so much how many guns are pointed the right way as getting *any* guns pointed the right way - and the upgraded Mutsuki does far better there.

 

(sadly it goes downhill again with the Hatsuharu. The guns there are bigger, more numerous and more powerful, but they're slower to turn)

[Takeda92]

 

I disagree. In a close duel with stock Mutsuki or Minekaze I will always win with my two fast rotating guns on Hull C. At that close range where knife fights usually happen, you are avoiding torpedoes and incoming shell fire = maneuvering hard. Mutsuki can keep its two fast rotating guns on target while Minekaze is hopelessly lost here having to turn the whole ship to fire his 4 guns on me. By the time he realizes that, its GG and he is swimming with the fishes.

 

Those two guns are ideal for finishing off USN or RU DDs on low HP. Usually one or two shots will suffice. I've surprised many of them, since people in general treat Mutsuki as garbage only to be surprised what you can do with her. I am already deadly with it, and soon I'll have that 5th row skill on mine.

 

Again, you probably didn't have the captain skill that increases the turret rotation by 2.5 deg/s. With that upgrade you can make the turrets turn 180 degrees in 13 seconds so it's not so bad.

 

I should add that I also didn't install the accuracy increasing module and went for AA module instead, which is why I feel that the accuracy of the guns are very bad.

 

[_Flyto_]

 

Again, you probably didn't have the captain skill that increases the turret rotation by 2.5 deg/s. With that upgrade you can make the turrets turn 180 degrees in 13 seconds so it's not so bad.

 

I should add that I also didn't install the accuracy increasing module and went for AA module instead.

 

 

Hmm, that's true, I've always gone with the torpedo reload one for IJN destroyers. I think I stand by that for the Minekaze, but maybe with T6+, where you're not spamming torps anyway, I should rethink.

[Takeda92]

 

Hmm, that's true, I've always gone with the torpedo reload one for IJN destroyers. I think I stand by that for the Minekaze, but maybe with T6+, where you're not spamming torps anyway, I should rethink.

 

I have them both. I know it will slow me down tremendously for getting the tier 5 skill but it's a decision I made, especially since I'm not planning for a fast grind for tier 10. 

[_Flyto_]

 

I have them both. I know it will slow me down tremendously for getting the tier 5 skill but it's a decision I made, especially since I'm not planning for a fast grind for tier 10. 

 

Fair enough. I've just got the T4 Last Stand skill, which was my big goal for IJN DDs... T5 is a long way off, so I may well pick this up temporarily once I have another two points!

[T_H_0_R]

 

Again, you probably didn't have the captain skill that increases the turret rotation by 2.5 deg/s. With that upgrade you can make the turrets turn 180 degrees in 13 seconds so it's not so bad.

 

I should add that I also didn't install the accuracy increasing module and went for AA module instead, which is why I feel that the accuracy of the guns are very bad.

 

 

Correct. I've gone with -10% torpedo reload skill instead of that since I plan on keeping this little bugger in my port. Only 60000 XP shy of Concealment Expert before I move to Hatsuharu. The next two points will go into the Expert Marksman skill. But not before I spend some time with Mutsuki and 5.4 km concealment.

 

I too have gone with AA upgrade. Managed to shoot down 10 planes in one match, which is 10 planes more I ever shot down with a german CA - Konigsberg. Very useful when CV wants to perma spot you.

[Shadeshots]

It does exactly what IJN DD's are designed for, stealth and torpedos and its been the same ever since they they started, 

 

IJN DD = Stealth, Torps

RU DD = Gun Boats/Harrassment/DD Hunters

USN DD = Hybrids a little in the middle of the above 2.

 

If your expecting amazing turrets then your going down the wrong line and should go US or RU, IJN guns can do some nice damage but the turret rotation is bad as it is on all of them.

 

Added to that every single DD torp reload gets 'slower' as you move up tiers to compensate for the higher stats. If you could spam Shimikaze torps at the reload of the Mutsuki or even the Minekaze for that matter they would be stupidly op since it can fire up to 15 Torpedos at ranges of 15-20km that do between 20k-24k damage. 

 

I took the upgrade even if the changes are minor on mine and i still have it in port, hp is hp and that little bit of hp could be the difference between you living and dying, ive survived games with next to nothing before, 

 

The AA capabilities of DD's isnt a major importance, since you should keep your AA off to avoid detection unless ofc you are already spotted and you got air coming your way anyway you might aswell turn it back on, but mostly keep it off. 

 

[_Flyto_]

 

 

I too have gone with AA upgrade. Managed to shoot down 10 planes in one match, which is 10 planes more I ever shot down with a german CA - Konigsberg. Very useful when CV wants to perma spot you.

 

Hee, yes. Carrier captains seem to get very confused when the DD that they were spotting starts chasing down their planes :-)

[Aotearas]

 

Again, you probably didn't have the captain skill that increases the turret rotation by 2.5 deg/s. With that upgrade you can make the turrets turn 180 degrees in 13 seconds so it's not so bad.

 

I should add that I also didn't install the accuracy increasing module and went for AA module instead, which is why I feel that the accuracy of the guns are very bad.

 

 

Erm, no?

 

Mutsuki base turret traverse is 6°/s, with the Expert Marksman skill it's 8.5°/s, which translates into just over 21 seconds for 180°, which in turn (pun intended) is still not fast enough to keep your guns pointed at a manouvring target when you're pulling a hard turn yourself (say because you're manouvring to evade any potential point blank torpedoes). Even with the main battery modification 2 (boosts turret traverse by 15%) you're still far off the 13 seconds you claim. I'm not sure how the formula works, but even the best case scenario ((6° + 2.5°) x 1.15 = 9.775° = 18,4 seconds for 180°) the turrets still traverse slower than the upgraded ones even without any gun skills/modifications (and just barely fast enough where I'd consider them to be effective for brawling another DD, which is about 18 seconds or less per 180°) and they fire significantly slower (4.5 rpm after the modification penalty unless you also invested a point into the Basic Firing Training skill / upgraded guns rpm is 10.9 without skills).

 

The stock guns turn slower than the upgraded guns no matter what you do and they have less dpm no matter what you do (though the four guns set-up does have the initial alpha damage advantage if you can fire all four guns, which may be an advantage if the target is at very low health, but only then and only if you hit and actually kill it).

 

So, all in all I vehemently disagree with your assessment. Though I do believe you may have unintentionally switched ships up, because I have no idea where you'd get the 13 seconds turret rotation time from if you really were talking about the Mutsuki (perhaps it used to have faster turret traverse before a balance patch?).

[Takeda92]

 

Erm, no?

 

Mutsuki base turret traverse is 6°/s, with the Expert Marksman skill it's 8.5°/s, which translates into just over 21 seconds for 180°, which in turn (pun intended) is still not fast enough to keep your guns pointed at a manouvring target when you're pulling a hard turn yourself (say because you're manouvring to evade any potential point blank torpedoes). Even with the main battery modification 2 (boosts turret traverse by 15%) you're still far off the 13 seconds you claim. I'm not sure how the formula works, but even the best case scenario ((6° + 2.5°) x 1.15 = 9.775° = 18,4 seconds for 180°) the turrets still traverse slower than the upgraded ones even without any gun skills/modifications (and just barely fast enough where I'd consider them to be effective for brawling another DD, which is about 18 seconds or less per 180°) and they fire significantly slower (4.5 rpm after the modification penalty unless you also invested a point into the Basic Firing Training skill / upgraded guns rpm is 10.9 without skills).

 

The stock guns turn slower than the upgraded guns no matter what you do and they have less dpm no matter what you do (though the four guns set-up does have the initial alpha damage advantage if you can fire all four guns, which may be an advantage if the target is at very low health, but only then and only if you hit and actually kill it).

 

So, all in all I vehemently disagree with your assessment. Though I do believe you may have unintentionally switched ships up, because I have no idea where you'd get the 13 seconds turret rotation time from if you really were talking about the Mutsuki (perhaps it used to have faster turret traverse before a balance patch?).

 

I miscalculated so your numbers are right. But even then dude, I was stating my personal preference. I do't see where all this strong disagreement of yours come from. I'm used to this 21 seconds traverse and I can make it work. If your style prefers the faster-turning 2-gun setup, that's totally fine.

 

As for the pure raw DPM, both gun setups have the roughly same DPM. You're halving the number of guns for only slightly more than doubting the RoF.

 

The reason why I prefer the 4 guns over the 2 guns in DD fights is because in Mutsuki (and Kamikaze, but less degree in Minekaze) you can aim 3 turrets at very sharp angle. I can fire all 3 guns then return to perpendicular while waiting for the guns to reload and then repeat. It's also useful if you're charging enemies. 2-gun Mutsuki with this tactic can only fire one gun instead of 3 and even the RoF won't make up for that. I have to angle even more if I want to use the rear gun and I cannot return to perpendicular to minimize my silhouette because the guns reload very fast. That's my preference and how I like to use the setup. Yours could differ and you have more success with the two guns. It's a matter of taste, not fact.

 

 

[Aotearas]

OMFG is this ship terrible in its stock configuration!!!

 

And of course the bloody matchmaker is only giving me two cap domination matches on maps with little cover, enemy teams full of US and RU DDs, Atlantas, Cleavelands, CVs etc. pp. ... how am I supposed to upgrade that POS into an useable DD without blowing free XP?

[Takeda92]

OMFG is this ship terrible in its stock configuration!!!

 

And of course the bloody matchmaker is only giving me two cap domination matches on maps with little cover, enemy teams full of US and RU DDs, Atlantas, Cleavelands, CVs etc. pp. ... how am I supposed to upgrade that POS into an useable DD without blowing free XP?

 

Personally I just used free XP on the hull, and the torps were unlocked since Furutaka.

[Aotearas]

 

Personally I just used free XP on the hull, and the torps were unlocked since Furutaka.

 

Hang on a second.

 

Does unlocking the torpedo module on the Furutaka also unlock the higher range torpedoes for the Mutsuki? They are the same torpedoes, but I thought each ship unlocks everything individually. If this is true, you just spared me a lot of frustration.

[Takeda92]

 

Hang on a second.

 

Does unlocking the torpedo module on the Furutaka also unlock the higher range torpedoes for the Mutsuki? They are the same torpedoes, but I thought each ship unlocks everything individually. If this is true, you just spared me a lot of frustration.

 

Yes, modules are shared in XP but not in credits. You still have to buy it.

[NoirLotus]

They are shared in credits.

 

I bought recently Fubuki and Myoko (the stock torps of Fubuki are the same than the upgraded ones on Myoko).

 

When I unlocked and bought the 15 km torpedoes for my Fubuki, I could mount the upgraded torps on Myoko without any cost.