The Mutsuki (T6 Japanese Destroyer)

[Zieten]

Hey everyone!

I couldnt find a dedicate shipforum - so I'll ask this here.

What exactly is the Mutsuki good for? It's got very similiar Torpedos to the Minekaze (damage is a bit higher I admit), but at a lower firing speed ( quite noticable: 1.3 Torps on the Mine vs 0.6 Torps per min on the Mutsuki). The guns are pretty similiar and the HP-difference is rather small, too. The only upgrade over the Minekaze is the AA capability - anything else looks similar or worse. Am I missing something? It does not really feel like an upgrade to me in any case

[Kaptain_Tripps]

Been wondering the same myself. I loved every IJN DD so far but this thing is awful. The ROF penalty is in no way compensated for by any of the other stats. I'm thinking of selling it and giving up onj the line as all the rest of them seem to follow in the same pattern.

[DestoryerO_o]

If you look at the stats, IJN DD line only gets worse, and you just have the "throw away ships" until you reach the last DD -Shimakaze.

IMHO, the last good IJN DD before Shimakaze is Minekaze.

Yes, the DDs like Kagerou get long Torp range and Torp speed, but, they also have insanely long reload, and you will think twice before launching them at long range, cos the hit is far away from guaranteed and  you have to wait lots and lots of time before you can launch them again - being utterly useless meanwhile.

 

As for Shimakaze, she at least has good sailing speed and 3 launchers.

[TheGreatSunJester]

I play the Mutsuki similarly to the Minekaze and it works ok. It's not really any better than the tier 5 I don't think, but its not a lot worse either. its kind of meh.

[Takeda92]

Mutsuki plays the same as Minekaze but with less "fun," When you reach Hatsuharu you have to get used to the lower maneuverability and the increase detection range, you simply can't get closer to the enemy like you can do with Minekaze and Mutsuki. It's going to be frustrating sometimes but I implore people not to give up on the line, we are testers after all and WG need all the data it can get to make this line fun and competitive again.

[MeanGreenUnseen]

I play the Mutsuki similarly to the Minekaze and it works ok. It's not really any better than the tier 5 I don't think, but its not a lot worse either. its kind of meh.

 

Erm, don't twice longer torp reloads bother you? At least a little?

 

Btw Mutsuki is T6, meaning it can face Amagis and so on. It is really terrible, especially for its tier.

[Fominator]

Remember when we told you that IJN DDs are terrible post tier 5? We weren't lying.

 

Hatsuhasu is a even worse Mutsuki, then Fubuki is a bit better, but still worse than Minekaze, then Kagero is a worse Fubuki. Shimakaze isn't that bad, but between the 2:40 reload times and the huge torpedo acquisition range, she barely have any impact in tier 10 games.

[TheGreatSunJester]

 

Erm, don't twice longer torp reloads bother you? At least a little?

 

Btw Mutsuki is T6, meaning it can face Amagis and so on. It is really terrible, especially for its tier.

 

Not really, its a limitation of the ship that has to be worked round. You have a 5.9km detection range and 10km torp range so its easy enough to launch torpedoes from 6.5-7km undetected and slip away while you reload. I'm also using some Captain skills to mitigate the reload a bit. Sure it would be nice to fire faster, but you have to work with what you've got. If you're careful you can still do well in it, you just need to be less bold than you might be in the Minekaze.

[Zieten]

Well, thats a bummer. I really liked playing the IJN destroyers..but if they basicly suck from T6-T9 then..well..there are other nice ships to try out...

[McLeod]

I think the DD lines ned some major work yet, far too many inconsistencies between nations/tiers and as mentioned before going up the tiers doesn't seem to give a feeling like your playing a superior ship.  the difference in hitpoints alone seems to me to need addressing in particular - the increases are so small they might as well not be there and yet the size or guns shooting at you can rise dramatically.

[Chihayafuru]

Compared to the Minekaze, the Mutsuki loses about 40% torpedo firepower. But the gain in AA is like 400%.

 

So they are very different ships.

 

Only problem is that people expected to get a better Minekaze. Also AA is not considered useful because you get like no points for protecting your BBs and there aren't always CV on the enemy team.

[BlueMoon51]

I won't pretend to be a good player but I found the same thing. loved them upto tier 5 and the Mutsuki was a shock reminds me a little of going from the Pz35 Pz38 Pz38NA in world of tanks yes on paper they might get better but..... the things you face improve so much that it feels like you have gone backwards. Ontop of the fact there is no great improvement the players you are facing tend to not fall for the same tricks!

[DestoryerO_o]

Compared to the Minekaze, the Mutsuki loses about 40% torpedo firepower. But the gain in AA is like 400%.

 

So they are very different ships.

 

Only problem is that people expected to get a better Minekaze. Also AA is not considered useful because you get like no points for protecting your BBs and there aren't always CV on the enemy team.

 

Well, Better Minekaze is exactly what i expect higher tier DDs to be. Why? Because Minekaze is FUN to play! As well as with other IJN Destroyers, WG can freely remove the guns from them as far as i'm concerned. They are utterly useless. That leaves you with Torps.  What should we do in them high tier games? Shoot our Torps and go to the end of the map and wait for reload / play some other game meanwhile maybe?

 

As for Mutsuki, If Devs wanted her to have the ability to be an AA escort too, the range and performance of her AA armament is far away from enough to fulfill that role.

[kbb07142]

Lol i just got this ship today and i came on this forum to complain about how useless this ship is.

 

I dont understand how the same torpedoes take 3 times as long to reload on this destroyer compared to the tier 5 ship.

 

When i 1st started playing i thought i would hate the jap destroyers so didn't touch them until last. The Mustiki is now my 1st tier 6 ship, because i actually loved playing the destroyers.

 

The reload needs to be less than 1min. Currently if my torps miss or fail to kill a battleship he will get 3 full salvos off at me b4 i can fire again.

 

The tier 1-5 destroyers were so much fun but when you fire off some torps and then have to spend 90 seconds running away to reload, and then 90 seconds to go back again only have your torps miss, well its not fun.

 

The reduction in reload needs to be for destroyers from tiers 6+

[liamdoran1]

Been grinding on the IJN Destroyers and have just reached the Fubuki, and I have to say the destroyers after tier 5 seem a bit redundant, from my experience:

 

-at about 6km most ships can avoid torps or eat one or two, at widespread you might hit a cruiser with the odd torp

-at about 5km you can get potentially guaranteed kills or a lot of hits on a battleship, but then you have to face the death gauntlet of enemy counter battery fired

 

So for a minekaze, whose detection range is 5.8km, you only have to run 0.8km gauntlet to get a decent hit, you have extremely fast reloads to keep the heat on your opponent and are mobile enough to escape the death gauntlet, which makes it in my opinion the best destroyer of the game right now.

 

However, as you level up I seem to get awarded unwieldy  ships, larger reload times and less torps for my effort (I'ev only been regiven 3 torp barrages with the fubuki, even though the minikaze had three at tier 5!). Coupled with the expensive repair costs for using these new suicide ships they seem fairly unsustainable in higher tiers without premium (im averaging about 130k per game with premium, my repair cost is about 70k, and adding on reload costs, 80k. This means once my premium goes I get about 65k per game, meaning im in a deficit from damaging enemy battleships but getting wiped because im unable to escape)

 

It feels as though I'm being punished for persisting in the tree to be honest, and although people say "ambush" and "use smoke", it is extremely hard to do those things when you have battleships and cruisers hugging the blue line and air recon all over the map, and as a destroyer you really should not be attracting attention by being an AA platform.

 

I now have, to get a decent shot against veteran players who know and understand how to dodge torps at high ranges as soon as they catch a whiff of a destroyer, got to undergo up to 2km of death gauntlet to even conceivably getting a decent hit on an enemy battleship, and don't get me started on cruisers. The fubuki has a detection range of 7km, meaning to get a sub-par shot unlikely to hit, I need to traverse a kilometre of no mans land (no one is 1k from an island in tier 5-10 unless they have a death wish), or 2km to get a very decent shot which is more then likely to hit.

 

Then I have to drag my unwieldy snail destroyer, less useful then a minekaze, out of the gauntlet of enemy destroyers spotting me, enemy Battleships secondary fire, cruiser cannon spam and potential aircraft recon,  to be giftedwith a 2 minute reload, and spend my time wandering around until the torps reload to try and run the gauntlet again. Although people argue the longer range torps are the bonus for higher level dd's, as I mentioned anything above 6km is resting on luck or extremely poor enemy ability.

 

I would recommend that wargaming either reduce detection to a maximum of 6km or at least increase torp speed and reload timings to negate the dangerous distance high tier destroyers have to traverse  just to get a decent shot. Right now I would rather have my minekaze in tier 10 battles then my fubuki.

[Bigglesof206]

Although there's no doubt that the Minekaze is far more fun than later tiers, if you play through them and try not to keep comparing the DD to the previous tier(s) all the time, you can still have good games in them. 

With Minekaze I used the shorter range, faster torps and would close to 6km to fire, then race away - with hatsuharu I find myself stalking more, trying harder to find a way to pop from cover for a quick torp shot, and work harder at not getting into detection range more than I have to. The commander's skill that alerts you to being detected (Situational Awareness I seem to recall) is very useful with all DDs to help you get to launch range.... once the warning has come up you know you need to get your torps away, or pop smoke and run.

 

Dave

[TheGreatSunJester]

Would a reduction in torp detectability help at higher tiers. Sure, they'll be spread out a bit wider from a 9km launch than a 5 km, but if they are detected later and the enemy have less time to get out the road it might help to solve some of the issues.

[Magni56]

Personally, I think somewhat faster reloads and a de-coupling of torpedo detection from torpedo range (which is what causes long-range torps to be so much more easily spotted) would make the high-tiers better balanced. Your role changes more to harassment and forcing bad maneuvers (and punishing tunnel vision) by throwing down torp waves at long range, but you'd still retain some short-range ambush potential around islands or with smoke.

[DestoryerO_o]

IJN O2 torps were next to impossible to see because they left no foam trail. The Devs should just implement that (to a well-balanced extent) to make higher tier IJN destroyers more playable. If not, at least fix their guns.

 

What they did to higher tier IJN DDs kinda bugs me alot.. IJN Sailors all had long and rigorous training compared to the USN Soda&Icecream Boys. I'm sure everything aboard IJN Ship was

on-the-double compared to USN one, and IJN DDs have proven themselves to have sharp teeth in all those battles where they were seriously outgunned.

 

Also, i'm sure Ships like IJN Yuudachi wouldn't be able to spend most of a battle within USN Cruiser formation, crossing the line multiple times and exchanging artillery fire while totally outgunned if they had turret traverse like we have in the game.

 

On the other hand, In the real life, you don't reload torpedo tubes while under fire and rapid maneuvering - that was impossible. Especially on a DD. Those guys had only one chance to hit or miss with torpedo spread.

[Orlunu]

Mutsuki is designed for a more hit and run style.  Her torps take longer to reload, but you should spend that time repositioning whilst out of the enemy's line of fire.  Her, franky awesome, AA suite gives you something else to do in that down time.  She ain't great by any stretch of the imagination, but she's a good intro to how to play the later IJN DDs.

 

Camo buff for the Long Lance would be great.

[Pvt_Erdnuss]

Lets bring it to a simple point: The Mutsuki is utter garbage compared to what you get from Tier 2 to 5.

[Orlunu]

Lets bring it to a simple point: The Mutsuki is utter garbage compared to what you get from Tier 2 to 5.

 

She's better, she's just not better enough, and she introduces a new and less natural play style in a very abrupt manner.

[Zieten]

 

She's better, she's just not better enough, and she introduces a new and less natural play style in a very abrupt manner.

 

So, how does that playstyle look like? Could you elaborate a little on this? Would be really interesting to know

[Fominator]

She's better

 

How? She have worse  torpedoes one tier higher, they only think she have is better AA, and usually you want to turn off your AA batteries.

[2ndaryBattleTank]

After playing it and looking at the stats I tend to the conclusion that the Minekaze is the best destroyer in the game. Not just at its tier, but for all tiers. OK, the guns are terrible and there are DDs with a more powerful torpedo broadside. But I don't think there are other DDs that combine its concealment, speed and maneuverability with such a quick torpedo reload. That is all I need from a DD. And all that with tier V MM. No wonder higher tier DDs feel a bit redundant.