Supertest - Soviet Battleships

[MrConway]

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

 

Last week we unveiled the new Soviet BB branch and introduced you to their preliminary characteristics. After the post we noticed your comments and decided talk a bit more about the main features of these ships and how they will differ from other BBs.

 

Please note that at this stage, this is only a concept. If testing shows that it doesn't live up to your - and our - expectations, there may be additional balance changes.

 

Soviet battleships encourage an aggressive style, closing distances and fighting at close and medium ranges. The following traits, both positive and negative, emphasize this:

• An elevated citadel that is an easy target for enemies and requires careful maneuvering, but conversely strong bow and belt armor that offers good protection if the ship is positioned correctly.
• Main caliber turrets characteristics (fast turning and good angles) will allow you to fire while remaining angled.
• A large turning radius is compensated for with a fast rudder shift, allowing you to actively perform precise maneuvers and utilize the armor traits.
• Main battery accuracy at close ranges (10-12 km) is comparable to that of cruisers, but at longer ranges it will be worse than other BBs.
• Another important aspect for close combat is a special "Damage Control Party", similar to that found on "Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya": 3(4) charges, but with a fast cooldown. It can increase the ships' survivability in crucial moments, at the expense of long-term survival.
• The branch enjoys slightly better concealment than many of its peers, which can help with ambushing and surprising enemy ships.
• It's unique radar can spot BBs and CVs behind islands as well as in bad weather conditions.
• Soviet BBs also have decent, but average levels of secondaries and good HE protection thanks to thick deck armour.

 

We want additionally point out that this branch is in testing and we're adjusting the ships' characteristics so that they are better suiting the intended playstyle and the tier progression is more comfortable, e.g. Vladivostok and Sovetsky Soyuz had their deck and casemate armour increased to 40 mm.

 

Soviet BBs can't be described as easy to use. You may have to adapt your familiar playstyle, but this branch offers players that successfully master them significant rewards.

[Allied_Winter]

Honeslty.... this does look ... promising (dare I say it).

 

 A citadel that can be punished on one hand but 40mm deck armour on the other (good bye IFHE pen). But therefore we get few charges for DCP which in turn makes fire vulnerability a more prone factor for these BBs...

Shame I can't test them ...

[gopher31]

Oh yes!

I like ship that is strong when played well but where mistakes can be punished.

 

Sounds like it will be good at brawling as long as you don't show broadside, a bit like a Roma?

 

[ColonelPete]

49 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

• An elevated citadel that is an easy target for enemies and requires careful maneuvering, but conversely strong bow and belt armor that offers good protection if the ship is positioned correctly.
• Main caliber turrets characteristics (fast turning and good angles) will allow you to fire while remaining angled.
• A large turning radius is compensated for with a fast rudder shift, allowing you to actively perform precise maneuvers and utilize the armor traits.
• Main battery accuracy at close ranges (10-12 km) is comparable to that of cruisers, but at longer ranges it will be worse than other BBs.
• Another important aspect for close combat is a special "Damage Control Party", similar to that found on "Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya": 3(4) charges, but with a fast cooldown. It can increase the ships' survivability in crucial moments, at the expense of long-term survival.
• The branch enjoys slightly better concealment than many of its peers, which can help with ambushing and surprising enemy ships.
• It's unique radar can spot BBs and CVs behind islands as well as in bad weather conditions.
• Soviet BBs also have decent, but average levels of secondaries and good HE protection thanks to thick deck 

• Sounds good
• The RU BB were not known to have fast turrets, while I understand that this fits the playstyle, 30s for 180 degrees for the later Tiers sounds a bit too fast
• Sounds good, but I had hoped that this concept would be used for BC
• I fear you go a bit overboard with accuracy, that would make them very strong (Imperator...)
• I do not like that Gimmick, but if that is what you chose for RU BB...
• Sneaky BB are always questionable
• Depends on the frequency of bad weather, problem is the occurance of bad weather gives the team with more high Tier RU BB an huge advantage
• Sounds good and reflects my expectation about RU BB and the state of the current RU BB

[Panocek]

9 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Honeslty.... this does look ... promising (dare I say it).

 

 A citadel that can be punished on one hand but 40mm deck armour on the other (good bye IFHE pen). But therefore we get few charges for DCP which in turn makes fire vulnerability a more prone factor for these BBs...

Shame I can't test them ...

Which is something I cannot compute - World of Tanks PTS enables to play (or at least used to) newest additions patch is about to deliver, while WoWs doesn't. Why put out PTS then, if players can't give feedback on new ship branch, besides molesting (or being molested by) random supertester found in battle?

[Allied_Winter]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Which is something I cannot compute - World of Tanks PTS enables to play (or at least used to) newest additions patch is about to deliver, while WoWs doesn't. Why put out PTS then, if players can't give feedback on new ship branch, besides molesting (or being molested by) random supertester found in battle?

I mean ... the early days of PTS even had the chance to test an upcoming line iirc. Was it the RU cruisers you could test on PTS (way way back in 2016)??? And during one PTS I remember testing the Lion (but I don't remember if this was prior to the launch of the RN BBs or not).

[Aotearas]

1 hour ago, MrConway said:

Main battery accuracy at close ranges (10-12 km) is comparable to that of cruisers, but at longer ranges it will be worse than other BBs.

Okay, I'm going to have to say: "Nyet!"

 

No BB should have anything approaching cruiserlike accuracy. And 10-12km is still far enough away that cruisers are helpless against a BB. Just no! And from what we've seen about RU BB dispersion so far it's not that much worse compared to other BBs at longer ranges either.

Make RU BBs more accurate than other BBs at closer ranges, but as soon as its accuracy can be remotely compared with cruisers you've gone too far.

 

 

 

 

In unrelated news, apparently the notifications upon following a forum subsection have just recently gone bonkers since I didn't recieve a notification that this topic has been posted despite setting my notifications up to do so.

 

 

[principat121]

16 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Shame I can't test them ...

... if you could, you would change your "promising" to borderline OP.

;-)

 

The punishable broadside does not make up for all the other advantages. You can compare it to Stalingrad. Not OP in the sense of an autowin, but too many advantages balanced by a single drawback. But that is just a brief personal impression of the first test iteration. It may will be changed.

[Panocek]

Just now, Allied_Winter said:

I mean ... the early days of PTS even had the chance to test an upcoming line iirc. Was it the RU cruisers you could test on PTS (way way back in 2016)??? And during one PTS I remember testing the Lion (but I don't remember if this was prior to the launch of the RN BBs or not).

Lion was available for test drive as only RN BB before their introduction IIRC. Also premium ships were available to test on PTS only once, while WoT have/had all tech tree available premiums, which was decent way of test driving premiums you would be interested in.

[Allied_Winter]

7 minutes ago, principat121 said:

but too many advantages balanced by a single drawback

In that case, why not give them USN BB dispersion at rangers sub 14km and KM BB 2.0 dispersion at ranges above 14km?

[Redcap375]

Hummm....Workable and with flavour. However:

 

1 hour ago, MrConway said:

 

• Main battery accuracy at close ranges (10-12 km) is comparable to that of cruisers, but at longer ranges it will be worse than other BBs.
• The branch enjoys slightly better concealment than many of its peers, which can help with ambushing and surprising enemy ships

 

These are the two that really concern me. 

 

1) There is a reason why brawling ships (what these are going to be for sure) get a large concealment.  So the enemy can have least some time to respond to the nightmare they are going to face up close (See Massa and Kurf).  I fear that before you know it, you gonna have one of these in your face with thick as hell bow armour, secondaries blazing lighting you up like a Christmas tree.  

 

2) Battleships guns with cruiser accuracy at any range is NOT A GOOD IDEA.....EVER.  Nothing can be worse than the Massa regarding long range firing anyway. 

 

Russian Battleships will be my make or brake time in this game.  That's just a fact not a threat.  I seen it destroy WT completely and WOT and with the Blancegrad, happening in WOWS.  Please lord don't let it happen to this game from this moment forth.  I have some small faith left in me somewhere WG. 

 

Both WT and WOT marketed RU equipment as " User friendly". 

 

@MrConway I have faith in you son.

 

 

[Redcap375]

14 minutes ago, principat121 said:

... if you could, you would change your "promising" to borderline OP.

;-)

 

The punishable broadside does not make up for all the other advantages. You can compare it to Stalingrad. Not OP in the sense of an autowin, but too many advantages balanced by a single drawback. But that is just a brief personal impression of the first test iteration. It may will be changed.

 

 This and This^^^^^

 

Please remember balance comrade.

 

B..A..L..A..N..C..E

[Aotearas]

6 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

In that case, why not give them USN BB dispersion at rangers sub 14km and KM BB 2.0 dispersion at ranges above 14km?

Personally it can keep a dispersion curve that makes it the most accurate BB (emphasis on the BB part, not cruiser) <14km and then peter off to be among the least accurate BBs as it gradually reaches its maximum range.

 

What I think is overdoing it is in addition to such amazing dispersion also giving those BBs incredible firing angles AND a much shorter ruddershift than other BBs. I'd say one of the two has to go:

They can either keep the good firing angles which makes planned positioning more important, but lose the great ruddershift to make it less responsive when someone manages to flank it so it can actually exploit the broadside.

Or it keeps the ruddershift to be more reactive, but then has to expose more side to begin with to get all their guns firing.

 

Personally I'd prefer the former, since the supposed weakness of an exposed citadel isn't worth much if you can get maybe one volley into it before the ship has turned sufficiently to angle.

[MrConway]

13 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Personally it can keep a dispersion curve that makes it the most accurate BB (emphasis on the BB part, not cruiser) <14km and then peter off to be among the least accurate BBs as it gradually reaches its maximum range.

 

What I think is overdoing it is in addition to such amazing dispersion also giving those BBs incredible firing angles AND a much shorter ruddershift than other BBs. I'd say one of the two has to go:

They can either keep the good firing angles which makes planned positioning more important, but lose the great ruddershift to make it less responsive when someone manages to flank it so it can actually exploit the broadside.

Or it keeps the ruddershift to be more reactive, but then has to expose more side to begin with to get all their guns firing.

 

Personally I'd prefer the former, since the supposed weakness of an exposed citadel isn't worth much if you can get maybe one volley into it before the ship has turned sufficiently to angle.

 

What we have given you here is a look at our intended goal for Russian BB gameplay, how we will get there in the end remains to be seen following our tests. There is a good chance we will have to nerf or change some aspects of them, but we have zero intention of releasing a broken line of ships, even if they may be Russian 

 

And honestly, if we would really make balancing decisions based on our audience demographics, we would have to make German ships more OP balanced. 

[Panocek]

14 minutes ago, MrConway said:

And honestly, if we would really make balancing decisions based on our audience demographics, we would have to make German ships more OP balanced. 

I wonder how cross server battles of "audience balanced ships" would look like. Mutually Assured Destruction due to all the nukes?

 

Perfect theme for april fools and mass cross server test if you ask me

[Egoleter]

6 hours ago, MrConway said:

Soviet battleships encourage an aggressive style, closing distances and fighting at close and medium ranges. The following traits, both positive and negative, emphasize this:

• An elevated citadel that is an easy target for enemies and requires careful maneuvering, but conversely strong bow and belt armor that offers good protection if the ship is positioned correctly.
• Main caliber turrets characteristics (fast turning and good angles) will allow you to fire while remaining angled. 
• A large turning radius is compensated for with a fast rudder shift, allowing you to actively perform precise maneuvers and utilize the armor traits.
• Main battery accuracy at close ranges (10-12 km) is comparable to that of cruisers, but at longer ranges it will be worse than other BBs.
• Another important aspect for close combat is a special "Damage Control Party", similar to that found on "Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya": 3(4) charges, but with a fast cooldown. It can increase the ships' survivability in crucial moments, at the expense of long-term survival.
• The branch enjoys slightly better concealment than many of its peers, which can help with ambushing and surprising enemy ships.
• It's unique radar can spot BBs and CVs behind islands as well as in bad weather conditions.
• Soviet BBs also have decent, but average levels of secondaries and good HE protection thanks to thick deck armour.

I see some issues here.

 

Let's compare:

Weaknesses (4)

• Large turning radius
• Elevated citadel
• Bad precision at long range
• OR like DCP

Mediocre (2)

• Secondaries
• (I guess speed, as it isn't mentioned)

 

Strong (8)

• Rudder shift
• Armor
• Caliber (not mentioned here but in other posts)
• Turret traverse
• Turret angles
• Precision at short range
• Radar (even if it doesn't detect cruisers and destroyers)
• Concealment

 

6 hours ago, MrConway said:

Soviet battleships encourage an aggressive style, closing distances and fighting at close and medium ranges.

Some of those strong points and weaknesses don't really add up for the planned gameplay.

 

Strong deck armor and an elevated citadel will invite people to snipe from a distance. At close range they could get annihilated due to the citadel, at long range they sound as if they are impervious to damage. Gameplay already consists of BBs camping far away from the hot zone in higher tiers. A Yamato, as the only current T-X BB with an elevated citadel, will get wrecked at close range. The poor precision at long range better be so poor that they will not hit anything except for lucky shots or your plan to make them brawlers will not happen.

 

[Zemeritt]

9 hours ago, MrConway said:

An elevated citadel that is an easy target for enemies and requires careful maneuvering, but conversely strong bow and belt armor that offers good protection if the ship is positioned correctly.

 

This is something every BB should have. Not all these braindead submarine citadels many come equipped with.

 

9 hours ago, MrConway said:

Main caliber turrets characteristics (fast turning and good angles) will allow you to fire while remaining angled

 

Why do the turrents need to turn faster then their reload? So you can pick the reload mod without penalties?

 

9 hours ago, MrConway said:

Main battery accuracy at close ranges (10-12 km) is comparable to that of cruisers, but at longer ranges it will be worse than other BBs.

 

Of course the russian BBs get this trait. Why am I not surprised. And if you consider this:

 

9 hours ago, MrConway said:

The branch enjoys slightly better concealment than many of its peers, which can help with ambushing and surprising enemy ships.

 

Cruisers will properly get another BB-line outspotting them. RN-BBs are just not enough ,eh?

No BB should've better concealment then the "average" cruiser. (Not including Balancegrad, Never coming Alaska etc.)

 

9 hours ago, MrConway said:

Another important aspect for close combat is a special "Damage Control Party", similar to that found on "Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya": 3(4) charges, but with a fast cooldown. It can increase the ships' survivability in crucial moments, at the expense of long-term survival.

 

While this is interresting, I'm very sure it won't make it onto the liveservers. Unless the BBs have insane AA (Which they'll properly get), the new dot machines aka US CVs will eat them alive.

 

10 hours ago, MrConway said:

It's unique radar can spot BBs and CVs behind islands as well as in bad weather conditions.

 

There are quite a number of people that complain about those ambush storm radars already. And you've to push it to the limit?

Congratulations, you plan to put in a mechanic, that leaves other BBs no counterplay whatsoever!

Atleast they should've one drawback from this mechanic.

 

10 hours ago, MrConway said:

Soviet BBs also have decent, but average levels of secondaries and good HE protection thanks to thick deck armour.

 

Of course they've. Otherwise cruisers would've to easy with them 

Should've expected this, especially since the last two BB lines were coated in 32mm.

[elblancogringo]

I'm quite enthusiastic with this concept.

I love the idea of the raised citadel but strong armor when angled, and good accuracy at close range. Maybe cruiser-like accuracy  below 12km is a bit too much, but it will be tweaked for sure.

And DCP charges is ok if the deck is thick enough to not suffer IFHE. I really like the goal of the devs in developing soviet BBs.

[wilkatis_LV]

13 hours ago, Aotearas said:

In unrelated news, apparently the notifications upon following a forum subsection have just recently gone bonkers since I didn't recieve a notification that this topic has been posted despite setting my notifications up to do so.

Check your e-mail. All the notifications for things you follow are e-mail only, not the forums themselves. And no, there’s no way to change it in settings. It’s e-mail or nothing. For some magical reason, I might add

 

Either that or I misunderstood what you mean 

 

---

 

As for others - you seem to be severely overreacting to concealment without checking its actual values. Go to both older VMF BB threads here and check them. Excluding the t4 which has the same point as every other “no superstructure” BB... Above average? Probably, a little bit. Not by much tho. So... still pretty average

And that outspotting CAs (excluding SCAs) part - you mean Moskva which is ouspotted by basically everything? Sure. But she’s already practically BB sized. Others? While I can’t really check that while on vacation, I’d go with a safe guess of a “no”

 

Oh, and since I saw someone mentioning “high caliber” in a list of strenghts - the line overall is highly average caliber wise, and the 457s of the 10 are not any more impressive than Reps 431s caliber wise - both can’t overmatch 32mm. So no, caliber would go into the “average” not “strenghts” section

[Zemeritt]

16 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

All the notifications for things you follow are e-mail only, not the forums themselves. And no, there’s no way to change it in settings. It’s e-mail or nothing. For some magical reason, I might add

 

Thats untrue:

 

 

First you've to choose the option and click the link. It'll send you to your options:

 

 

Here choose notification, not Email. Then scroll the page down:

 

 

check the boxes under the notification and uncheck under Email.

 

That way I get a notification if someone posts something new.

Might be interesting for @Aotearas too.

[wilkatis_LV]

3 hours ago, Zemeritt said:

(..)

Hmm, I’ll have to re-check it when I’m back from vacation  Tnx

 

Could it be that the “change how notifications are sent” disappears in the background of the dark theme? Or mybe I was just blind, could be either 

[FishDogFoodShack]

Best in class pen alongside arguably best in class accuracy on gigantic guns that turn faster than their reload.

 

Larger than a GK and with more health, but "better concealment than it's peers".

 

Immune to HE deck armor with non-overmatchable bow.

 

Current iteration is a nightmare. Raised cit or not, they have exactly what they need to invalidate every other BB in the game at the moment. Their meagre weaknesses do not any way compensate for their myriad strengths. A large turning circle and exposed cit count for nothing with gun angles and turret shift this extreme.

[wilkatis_LV]

6 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

Best in class pen

Have we seen anything about the pen? Not that I'm aware off

 

6 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

arguably best in class accuracy

All we know is horizontal, and that is best or worst in class depending on range

 

And yet as vertical axis is longer the result of that will be far more impactful.

Sigma? Again, without actual picture of how the whole dispersion looks like it's a meaningless stat

 

And then there are the shell arcs - again, unknown - which can make or break the accuracy. Low + tight disp. would be devastating regardless of wow low your sigma gets, while high + wide disp. would be amazingly garbage regardless of how good your sigma is

 

 

You can't make any reasonable guesses just by looking at the "short arm" and a tag-along stat

 

6 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

Larger than a GK

Pretty sure the biggest one - the t10 - was stated to be bit smaller than GK

 

6 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

with more health

+2.5k is pretty irrelevant. If this is a significant change then I guess you'd say potatoes running SE on GKs were right all along?

 

6 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

"better concealment than it's peers"

Again, quick stats check reveals you the actual picture:

 

Is it "better" than average? Yes. Is it significantly better than others? Mostly a strong no

 

The only one with significant concealment advantage is the t4. And its advantage comes from exactly the same spot as for ships like Kawachi. There's literally nothing above its deck to spot

 

6 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

Immune to HE deck armor

Hello IJN high tier, USN high tier and KM pretty much every tier BBs. What a new concept

 

6 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

with non-overmatchable bow

Remains to be seen, unless I've missed some armour scheme reveal. They easily might get the same point as the VMF "heavy" cruisers do - lower bow only.

Also KM BBs would like to say hello again

 

---

 

Basically you misunderstand everything you read, check nothing and then start crying about something you don't even know about. Amazing

[gopher31]

Just received a 30% coupon, any chance the Soviet premium Battleship might enter the store in the next two days?

[ColonelPete]

Nope.