Update 0.8.0. Prepare for Takeoff! - Discussion Thread

[2key4wn8]

I mean most of the players actually like the rework regarding the more "action based" style compared to the RTS style - Most of the "rework haters" dont have a problem with that.

 

It's just the implementation around it.... basically "infinite" planes, instant ripping of DDs and BBs without AA, wearing out of AA over time compared to "infinite planes", ineffective AA in terms of "having real impact on stopping the attack", etc.

 

EDIT: And the fact that you will pretty much face 3 CVs most of the time during the next weeks..... as a WoT main I can tell you how much fun it is to get focused and perma clicked by 3 arties.....

[LOZFFVII]

2 minutes ago, Bruecki2938 said:

I mean most of the players actually like the rework regarding the more "action based" style compared to the RTS style - Most of the "rework haters" dont have a problem with that.

 

It's just the implementation around it.... basically "infinite" planes, instant ripping of DDs and BBs without AA, wearing out of AA over time compared to "infinite planes", ineffective AA in terms of "having real impact on stopping the attack", etc.

And I can agree with you there.

I'm just remaining optimistic in the sense I believe that this isn't going to be final as of 0.8.0. It's probably going to be 3-4 months of balancing until we find something that we can all agree is fair.

The difference is some of us appear to have the patience to weather the storm while others are either:

1. "You've ruined my carriers forever! Goodbye!";
2. "Carriers should never have been in the game, remove them or goodbye!", or;
3. "I'm not your guineapig, WG! See you in three months! If I still don't like it, goodbye!".

[Captain_Newman]

15 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

 

---

Most of the optimists are probably like me, they try to actively avoid toxic threads (like this one) as much as possible.

Unfortunately, this results in an echo chamber where the anti-cv-rework vocal minority can shout as loud as they like.

 

It's difficult to not see a difference in the volume of negative feedback between this and pretty much any of the other past patches. Speaking personally, it's not my goal to be toxic, but looking at the game as a whole and not just from the perspective of a single class, I have great concerns about this negatively impacting the health, and as a result the ultimate survival of this game. I'd like it to be fun to play and live, and I have serious doubts about this being the correct route to get there. I don't see how not expressing this constitutes as "not being toxic". I will gladly offer positive feedback when I think something is good, and have done so in the past - the irony here is that what actually is toxic, however, is automatically branding anyone expressing concerns and giving negative feedback as toxic. I'm merely noticing that every time I see a thread or comments section on this topic, it's overwhelmingly filled with negative feedback, way more so than any of the other patches I've seen.

[2key4wn8]

6 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

And I can agree with you there.

I'm just remaining optimistic in the sense I believe that this isn't going to be final as of 0.8.0. It's probably going to be 3-4 months of balancing until we find something that we can all agree is fair.

The difference is some of us appear to have the patience to weather the storm while others are either:

1. "You've ruined my carriers forever! Goodbye!";
2. "Carriers should never have been in the game, remove them or goodbye!", or;
3. "I'm not your guineapig, WG! See you in three months! If I still don't like it, goodbye!".

 

And thats exactly my main issue I have with it..... why do I have to "suffer" 3-4 months and deal with obvious "unbalance" on a live and working enviroment - as a player?

How much fun is this?

 

As I said before, I'm a WoT main and not a long time ago there was a tank called "268 4". This tank was OP/borken as hell.

Every supertester, CC, well known streamer and their mums told WG weeks BEFORE release that this tank is OP/broken and will break the game balance BIG TIME.....

 

WG decided to release the tank in this state anyway....

 

So for 3-4 months - until WG decided to finally "nerf" the tank - random battles were full of this tank, clan wars meta shifted COMPLETLY to this tank... it was a MESS.... and a lot of players were REALLY PISSED....

 

LIVE servers are not the playground of the balance department... sorry this is a "no go"...

[2key4wn8]

Not mentioning that after the "nerfs" the tanks shifted out of the clan wars meta and you see them next to nothing in randoms anymore.... which pissed of a lot of players yet again because you basically HAD to grind/buy it if you were a clan wars player and now the tank is next to "useless".

[LOZFFVII]

3 minutes ago, Captain_Newman said:

It's difficult to not see a difference in the volume of negative feedback between this and pretty much any of the other past patches. Speaking personally, it's not my goal to be toxic, but looking at the game as a whole and not just from the perspective of a single class, I have great concerns about this negatively impacting the health, and as a result the ultimate survival of this game. I'd like it to be fun to play and live, and I have serious doubts about this being the correct route to get there. I don't see how not expressing this constitutes as "not being toxic". I will gladly offer positive feedback when I think something is good, and have done so in the past - the irony here is that what actually is toxic, however, is automatically branding anyone expressing concerns and giving negative feedback as toxic. I'm merely noticing that every time I see a thread or comments section on this topic, it's overwhelmingly filled with negative feedback, way more so than any of the other patches I've seen.

That's fair, to be frank when I say 'toxic' I'm actually referring to the particularly ott examples, such as the ones I outlined above:

6 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

1. "You've ruined my carriers forever! Goodbye!";
2. "Carriers should never have been in the game, remove them or goodbye!", or;
3. "I'm not your guineapig, WG! See you in three months! If I still don't like it, goodbye!".

And if I'm being completely honest, I haven't read this whole thread - mostly just skimmed the first two pages then skipped to the last one, so it's not like I've read all the comments here.

I also class those who have glossed over the 50minute Waterline video on the rework and still claim things like "Its desgined for console players" to be a particular form of toxic ignorance.

[LOZFFVII]

5 minutes ago, Bruecki2938 said:

And thats exactly my main issue I have with it..... why do I have to "suffer" 3-4 months and deal with obvious "unbalance" on a live and working enviroment - as a player?

How much fun is this?

That's fine then. You do you.

I'll do the job of playing the new CVs, as well as DDs and Cruisers and see if I can help get these things balanced for your return to the game.

 

Honestly, it's not like I play this game religiously, so it should be fun to see how things change over the next few months.

[2key4wn8]

1 minute ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

That's fine then. You do you.

I'll do the job of playing the new CVs, as well as DDs and Cruisers and see if I can help get these things balanced for your return to the game.

 

Honestly, it's not like I play this game religiously, so it should be fun to see how things change over the next few months.

I'll hide in T9 ranked and brain afk grinding low tiers in coop while watching some series. :)

So I won't quit on the game just not sitting first row during the storm. :)

[wot_2016_gunner]

 

[HentaiSquirrel]

Hi.

 

Since this is my first post I want to start with something positive... I really have come to love this game and the community surrounding it. Although I'm quite new to WoWs and consider myself a decent player at best I've had several quite nice conversations in chat and got a strong impression that the player base is unique in a very agreeable way. Also kudos to WG - not only for the game itself but also for development and marketing strategies. The latter, albeit debatable, are top notch and earn my respect for it's sophistication. 

 

TL;DR: I love this game : )

 

Usually I tend to take a game 'as is', especially if it's developed as 'open beta' and to quibble about more or less subjective dislikes i consider a waste of time. Nevertheless... game developers are dependent on feedback that goes beyond bug reports and technical issues. So here's my two cents about the 0.8.0 release announcement.

 

5 hours ago, Captain_Newman said:

- CE changes: nobody asked for this. Has the potential to make bb's and cruisers camp even more, making gameplay even more passive. Not that it matters since everyone will be permaspotted by sky cancer, anyway.

 

I couldn't agree more. IN every aspect of that statement. Worse: thousands of players have skilled their commanders with CE, investing a shitpload of hours of grinding away to enable certain play styles that are unique to their ships or to a certain ship class.

- Well.. that's down the drain... and re-training commanders will cost even more time - or real money. Great :-/

 

Quote

Fixed an issue which immediately removed a detectability penalty applied to a ship after firing its main guns if the ship was not in the target's line of sight. In Update 0.8.0, the penalty will work for 20 seconds irrespective of whether the target enemy sees the firing ship or not.

 

This I did not and still cannot consider an 'issue' - that's a feature! Besides, the change is totally illogical. How ever hard I try to explain that away I cannot find anything positive about it - and can only hope that this brain fart will be undone asap!

 

After all it's still work in progress... 

 

So... first post and all... a bit formal but nevertheless heartfelt:

Good luck and fair seas to all!

 

Your's truly - 

HentaiSquirrel, nut job n00b ; )

[King_Khazi]

16 hours ago, radiofyr said:

Hngggggg - ahem - morning everyone. Scary night, had a very very bad dream: Russian CV in upd 0.8.1.

 

41 minutes ago, Bruecki2938 said:

 

 

As I said before, I'm a WoT main and not a long time ago there was a tank called "268 4". This tank was OP/borken as hell.

Every supertester, CC, well known streamer and their mums told WG weeks BEFORE release that this tank is OP/broken and will break the game balance BIG TIME.....

 

WG decided to release the tank in this state anyway....

 

So for 3-4 months - until WG decided to finally "nerf" the tank - random battles were full of this tank, clan wars meta shifted COMPLETLY to this tank... it was a MESS.... and a lot of players were REALLY PISSED....

 

.

 

WG would have made money from people who wanted to get the op tank, the same way they do with op premiums.  As you probably know in WoT overbuffing is a regular moneyspinning cycle and players seem to fall for it every time.  WG will have tested and calculated they will profit from the rework so no amount of comment will result in change.  Its very  likely they already know what will be over / underwhelming.

[King_Khazi]

1 hour ago, Bruecki2938 said:

I mean most of the players actually like the rework regarding the more "action based" style compared to the RTS style - Most of the "rework haters" dont have a problem with that.

 

 

 

Personally I very much enjoyed the RTS style play, much more than the play of any other ship type.  I will miss it greatly.  I accept that I'm probably not in the majority. 

 

I'm presently seeking a substitute  'gentle' RTS game!  

 

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

1 hour ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

'A' T8 decent cv player (singular) cannot send out AP bombers and torp bombers simultaneously under the rework.

Also its impossible to send out 1 squad of dive bombers, followed by a squad of torp bombers and then follow up with another squad of dbs in less than 30 seconds whilst also flying across most of the map in order to hit your target under the rework. Remember, 'First 30 seconds' means from minute 20:00 to 19:30.

You go alone -> you die alone. That hasn't changed. This is true even if there are no CVs in the battle.

'Several wings of tb+ap bombers', so this is not the rework you're talking about? Or are you talking about more than one CV player ganging up on a single overextended target?

AP bombs do not set fires. Again AP bombs DO NOT SET FIRES. And you also changed the order of events from AP->Torp->AP to AP->AP->torp.

Either you're extremely confused or you're exagerating things to suit your own ends.

---

Most of the optimists are probably like me, they try to actively avoid toxic threads (like this one) as much as possible.

Unfortunately, this results in an echo chamber where the anti-cv-rework vocal minority can shout as loud as they like.

 

Man, again, you are unable to read coherent... "... Yesterday I watched an Mushi ..." what part of "yesterday" did you not understand ??? Are you aware only TOMORROW the "reworked cv.s" enter game ? And an Random battle yesterday was with the classic cv ?...

Also, are you aware an T8 cv can launch under 1 minute 4 wings ?.... (without counting with fighters ?? -  Japanese T8 has, If my memory do not fool me, some 5 wings...)

About AP bombs - from my perspective ( I was in a bb) the amount of damage he took from each bomber drop lead me to assume was AP (27-30k dam/drop). but he DID BURN a lot. The Tb waited to use the dam control then hit him again. But enough with this, ANY Mushi owner can tell you the same story, its an T9 bb with an immense HP pool who can be fast deleted, at ease, by any decent cv player, no point on arguing about. 

"Or are you talking about more than one CV player ganging up on a single overextended target?"

 

Nop, was JUST ONE cv, you ask, again obvious you miss the part where I say this happen right on start, and he was left alone by 2 cruisers ; All 3 of them where spammed on the flank, the cruisers run away to join a bigger group on middle, so he remain there isolated. His "mistake" , to say that, was to continue ahead, slow, without noticing he was alone... You cant say "overextended"  right on start ... more "left alone to die".

 

" toxic threads (like this one) .." yeah, sure, when peoples point out something bad, the old hypocrite tactic of calling "toxic thread" its employed, when obvious all this "rework" was made in a hurry, (WG not even bother to "train" some bots so the peoples could try several configurations of commander skills on those 3 (useless) seasons of PT) and now, 24h before patch, we not even know  how much time we have to change skills for free,  (once ? a day ? a week ? a month ? ... ) we have no clue how the ships with bad AA and with no fighter can survive, etc... 

But hey, why do you will care about those "details", when you are an declared "optimist" cv player, and anybody who point out the problems its just making "toxic threads".....

 

 

[Klopirat]

Vor 5 Minuten, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue sagte:

Man, again, you are unable to read coherent... "... Yesterday I watched an Mushi ..." what part of "yesterday" did you not understand ??? Are you aware only TOMORROW the "reworked cv.s" enter game ? And an Random battle yesterday was with the classic cv ?...

Also, are you aware an T8 cv can launch under 1 minute 4 wings ?.... (without counting with fighters ?? ) 

Upload the replay and everybody can see it him/herself

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

9 minutes ago, Klopirat said:

Upload the replay and everybody can see it him/herself

dude, I played some 30-50 games since, digging in and watching them&select the right one its a bit tough... but if more peoples ask, I will do that. And I will say also to you something what ALL owners of Mushi already know since release of the ship: "... its an T9 bb with an immense HP pool who can be fast deleted, at ease, by any decent cv player..." (T8,9,10 cv).

The "formula" its no secret at all - bomb, set on fire, wait for dam control, torp, repeat »»» flooding = dead. And when I say "wait" I mean park the tb right on his top, no harm will come from Mushi...

 

[LOZFFVII]

36 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

Man, again, you are unable to read coherent... "... Yesterday I watched an Mushi ..." what part of "yesterday" did you not understand ??? Are you aware only TOMORROW the "reworked cv.s" enter game ? And an Random battle yesterday was with the classic cv ?...

Okay, I'll admit I never read the word 'yesterday'.

But this still raises a point:

Why bring up old carrier gameplay when their gameplay is being completely redesigned?

You...do realise that the new carriers cannot launch multiple squads at once, right?

So, even with three CVs on either team, you'll only ever see three squads in the air at once. MAXIMUM.

So...

What exactly was your point in mentioning an event that occurred yesterday in a version of cvs that, as of tomorrow ceases to exist?

42 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

His "mistake" , to say that, was to continue ahead, slow, without noticing he was alone... You cant say "overextended"  right on start ... more "left alone to die".

I think that's pretty clear-cut case of 'overextending', except he was too dumb to look at the minimap and see that the team were retreating.

Classic potato BB.

45 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

when obvious all this "rework" was made in a hurry,

Untrue.

It's been in the wings since at least April last year - or whenever it was Jingles made that troll tease video (idk).

46 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

and now, 24h before patch, we not even know  how much time we have to change skills for free,  (once ? a day ? a week ? a month ? ... )

Untrue.

We have a little over a week.

So much for your reading comprehension.

Quote

From January 31 until February 8 you can reset skills and retrain your Commanders free of charge.

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/update-080-takeoff/

47 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

we have no clue how the ships with bad AA and with no fighter can survive,

How about the same way they did before? Hanging close to strong AA ships. Or utilising smokescreens to break line-of-sight.

Also, let's not forget the new aircraft spotting mechanics means they cannot see through mountains, so ducking behind cover works vs planes now, too.

50 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

But hey, why do you will care about those "details", when you are an declared "optimist" cv player, and anybody who point out the problems its just making "toxic threads".....

Check my stats.

I'm an optimist DD player.

And I can point out things I don't agree with in the CV rework, but it's easier to quote someone who's done it for me.

2 hours ago, Bruecki2938 said:

It's just the implementation around it.... basically "infinite" planes, instant ripping of DDs and BBs without AA, wearing out of AA over time compared to "infinite planes", ineffective AA in terms of "having real impact on stopping the attack", etc.

 

EDIT: And the fact that you will pretty much face 3 CVs most of the time during the next weeks..... as a WoT main I can tell you how much fun it is to get focused and perma clicked by 3 arties.....

I agree on all of the above points, however I want this change to succeed so I'm keeping an open mind and looking forward to how the new CVs will balance out over patches 0.8.0, 0.8.1, etc.

[NoSoRetroJakko]

When you guys gonna buff the Z52, the fact it still gets chunked by AP is still a joke

[Kossu013]

3 hours ago, Captain_Newman said:

WG still claims most people react positively to this. I wonder where they are and why they're all avoiding this thread, and every other venue where people publicly post their opinions about changes to wows

 

Every time I see a discussion about the rework, WG gets absolutely trashed in the comments, yet they still maintain most people like this. Must be a nice fantasy world they live in.

On their home server? Haven't seen them here though..

[Rage_Oddball]

did i miss the memo where DD's become underdog and we need to nerf everything else so they can play comfortably?

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

2 hours ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

Okay, I'll admit I never read the word 'yesterday'.

But this still raises a point:

Why bring up old carrier gameplay when their gameplay is being completely redesigned?

You...do realise that the new carriers cannot launch multiple squads at once, right?

So, even with three CVs on either team, you'll only ever see three squads in the air at once. MAXIMUM.

So...

What exactly was your point in mentioning an event that occurred yesterday in a version of cvs that, as of tomorrow ceases to exist?

I think that's pretty clear-cut case of 'overextending', except he was too dumb to look at the minimap and see that the team were retreating.

Classic potato BB.

Untrue.

It's been in the wings since at least April last year - or whenever it was Jingles made that troll tease video (idk).

Untrue.

We have a little over a week.

So much for your reading comprehension.

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/update-080-takeoff/

How about the same way they did before? Hanging close to strong AA ships. Or utilising smokescreens to break line-of-sight.

Also, let's not forget the new aircraft spotting mechanics means they cannot see through mountains, so ducking behind cover works vs planes now, too.

Check my stats.

I'm an optimist DD player.

And I can point out things I don't agree with in the CV rework, but it's easier to quote someone who's done it for me.

I agree on all of the above points, however I want this change to succeed so I'm keeping an open mind and looking forward to how the new CVs will balance out over patches 0.8.0, 0.8.1, etc.

1 - "You...do realise that the new carriers cannot launch multiple squads at once, right?" - you play fool here or you simply do not realize, yet, THE SAME "solo" squad can do 3 runs, one after other, in some 20 sec ??

                                                                                                                                                              Its like "here, I change the number, are no more  3 , but only III now. "

2 - released in a hurry, yes,  since they not even have time to introduce cv bots in co-op and worst, they retired the "Operations" modality because...the same ! Even the release notes  are poor, the design for some ships are just ridiculous ( have you bothered to watch a monty putting in air half dozen of fighters in 3 seconds, like an modern super-carrier ?? !) .

 

3 - "We have a little over a week..." - and, honestly, do you really think 8 days its enough for players with + 100 of ships (like most of us) - to learn/experiment/switch skills ?!

 

4 - "How about the same way they did before? Hanging close to strong AA ships." - again, you have no clue what you talk about, are NO MORE "aura" to protect other ships, dude ! Even THE most strong AA ships are barely able to protect a bit themselves, and by no mean "cover" other ships ! More , you even didn't  pay attention at the fact will be now "gaps" on AA auras,

" the different AA auras (short-range, mid-range, long-range) will not be overlapping.  " - here :

 

[LOZFFVII]

2 hours ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

1 - "You...do realise that the new carriers cannot launch multiple squads at once, right?" - you play fool here or you simply do not realize, yet, THE SAME "solo" squad can do 3 runs, one after other, in some 20 sec ?? Its like "here, I change the number, are no more  3 , but only III now. "

Right, but they cannot stack both fires and floods. Also, the longer their planes stay in an enemy ships' AA range, the more damage they will take, so they will most likely not have a complete third run (if they even get one). You just need to learn not to use your DCP at the first sign of a fire and git gud at torpedobeating (I've seen someone dodge three individual torp bomber strikes with RTS CVs in an Akizuki).

2 hours ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

3 - "We have a little over a week..." - and, honestly, do you really think 8 days its enough for players with + 100 of ships (like most of us) - to learn/experiment/switch skills ?!

Not my point. My point was you completely failed to pick up on that detail, despite it being highlighted in the news article. Even going so far as to state WG hadn't given us a deadline for free respecs, when in actual fact they had.

I agree that the period given is a tad short, but eh *shrug*, I can just free respec them all and use one-or-two to decide what skills are needed in the new meta. The only hard part then is remembering I've got a whole bunch of captains with effectively 0 skillpoints. Oh, but my meme builds, like HE-only Nelson and Secondary Bismarck won't be respecced.

2 hours ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

4 - "How about the same way they did before? Hanging close to strong AA ships." - again, you have no clue what you talk about, are NO MORE "aura" to protect other ships, dude ! Even THE most strong AA ships are barely able to protect a bit themselves, and by no mean "cover" other ships ! More , you even didn't  pay attention at the fact will be now "gaps" on AA auras,

 

" the different AA auras (short-range, mid-range, long-range) will not be overlapping.  " - here :

You don't have an argument against the rest of my answer to that? Shame.

That 'barely able to protect themselves' and 'no more aura to protect other ships' remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned, as I've seen arguments on BOTH sides of that.

I was not aware of the non-overlapping auras, but thank you for sharing.

[unsinkable_sam_]

Stalingrad  fire duration nerf is very bad idea.. Unthinking  decision. From 0.8.0  patch with increased fire duration Stalingrad will suffer two times, From bad concealment and the fire duration. Worse concealment than before 0.8.0.

[rising_uk]

Oh come on guys be fair!

 

The advent of CVs effectively did away with battleships so WG are just being historically accurate. The next thing needed now is to just rename the game World of Carriers!

[MOABtheONLY]

So where is the server? 0822 cet

[Bluestrategist]

Surprise - check the website - it's now live from 9 am UTC...

 

I got up early to play too.