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__Helmut_Kohl__

[Update 0.8.0] Gearing vs Grozo AA

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Quote

"Short-range AA defenses include guns up to 25 mm, medium-range AA defenses include guns up to 85 mm, long-range AA defenses include guns with a caliber over 85 mm.

The working areas of the AA guns of the long-, medium-, and short-range don't overlap."


https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/cv8-how-to-play/#ship-aa-defense
 

Confirmation:

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/112132-new-aa-mechanics-about-the-non-overlapping-auras/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-2834390

 

@Darth_Glorious provided a table containing the new AA values for the rework:

https://postimg.cc/v1xqJNsf

 

Gearing:

95 DPS till 1.5 km:    2.5 km window

67 DPS till 3.5 km:    2.0 km window

64 DPS till 5.8 km:    2.3 km window

 

Grozovoi:

74 DPS till 2.3 km:    2.3 km window

107 DPS till 3.5 km:  1.2 km window

73 DPS till 6.0 km:    2.5 km window

 

So which one has the better AA now ?

According to the table mentioned above, Grozo creates more air-burst explosions, but from what I understand, these can be evaded anyway. 

 

Edit: In a previous version of this post I was missing the corrected AA values for 0.8.0.

 

 

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Are you crazy? 

 

THE FALL IS GONNA KILL YA.

 

 

 

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What you're missing are new AA ranges. And small caliber AA if I remember correctly universally ends around 2km, while mid caliber are around 3-3.5km, with long range being close to 6km mark, 7.something for 152mm DP guns.. Can't check as PTS is already ded

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52 minutes ago, Panocek said:

What you're missing are new AA ranges. And small caliber AA if I remember correctly universally ends around 2km, while mid caliber are around 3-3.5km, with long range being close to 6km mark, 7.something for 152mm DP guns.. Can't check as PTS is already ded

 

Edit: false alarm, sorry Mr.C.

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Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

So AA ranges on all ships are universally adjusted after rework @MrConway

Not quite from what I remember, but DP guns are/were universally range buffed.

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36 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Gearing felt a little powercreep lately and Grozo was a little too strong after the BB-AP-Nerf

Gearing powercrept? By Grozovoi? While she has Fletcher's torps, when compared to the anemic things Grozovoi carries? Yeah, sure...

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Just now, eliastion said:

Gearing powercrept? By Grozovoi? While she has Fletcher's torps, when compared to the anemic things Grozovoi carries? Yeah, sure...

 

Gearing with LM is nice for CW, but Grozovoi is way better for Random games, trust me. 

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What I saw so far all T9-T10 CLs have 6.9 km range with long range AA and most other ships 5.8 km. Don't know if there are more special cases

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5 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

trust me

Sorry, I won't :Smile-_tongue:

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2 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Sorry, I won't :Smile-_tongue:

 

Until you have a Gearing yourself, you will have to take my world for it. :Smile-_tongue:

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AA stats were posted by @Darth_Glorious

On 1/13/2019 at 10:33 AM, Darth_Glorious said:

AA stats at tier X

CV-AA-rework.jpg

So gearing has better AA from 0.1 - 1.5km

Groz has better AA from 1.5 - 3.5, with it getting even better after 2.3, although between 1.5 and 2.3 gearing gains flak clouds. Beteen 2.3 and 3.5 groz has more flak clouds, and stronger ones.

Groz then has for long range an extra 0.2km, better DPS, more flak clouds, and harder hitting flak clouds.

 

So the only thing the gearing is better at is point blank (under 1.5), and the slightly dubious hobour of an 800m window wherw it gets flak clouds and the groz doesnt

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Unless a CV flies into flak bursts DD AA is pretty much worthless anyway.

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Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Until you have a Gearing yourself, you will have to take my world for it. :Smile-_tongue:

Or I can look at the things sailing around, you see. Most notably, both Grozovoi's and Gearing's guns (and torpedo tubes) have two ends - and being on the wrong side of those belonging to Gearing is just significantly more scary.

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

Unless a CV flies into flak bursts DD AA is pretty much worthless anyway.

 

What about KIDD vs T8 CVs? 

Because if that doesn't work, the ship becomes quite disappointing... 

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Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

What about KIDD vs T8 CVs? 

 

Same thing I reckon. We didn't get premium ships during testing.

 

iEarl stated in the recent Q&A session that lone wolves are supposed to get killed by CVs. That aspect of CV play really hasn't changed.

In fact CVs became a lot stronger in this regard.

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6 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Or I can look at the things sailing around, you see. Most notably, both Grozovoi's and Gearing's guns (and torpedo tubes) have two ends - and being on the wrong side of those belonging to Gearing is just significantly more scary.

 

That is silly, as it depends on the player and if he is using his ship correctly. 

Gearing is more scary to a DD close-up and Grozo is more scary at range.

But what you obviously didn't understand is that I was not talking about DD vs DD.

 

Grozo has just way more utility in Random Battles with these amazing guns (especially the AP) and that speed. You can play it like a Khaba if needed, especially after BB-AP-Nerf. And the torpedoes are not that much worse than the Fletcher ones - just longer reload. But the guns make up for that easily. 

 

Giving it all the consumables at once was just a bit too much. 

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5 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

AA stats were posted by @Darth_Glorious

So gearing has better AA from 0.1 - 1.5km

Groz has better AA from 1.5 - 3.5, with it getting even better after 2.3, although between 1.5 and 2.3 gearing gains flak clouds. Beteen 2.3 and 3.5 groz has more flak clouds, and stronger ones.

Groz then has for long range an extra 0.2km, better DPS, more flak clouds, and harder hitting flak clouds.

 

So the only thing the gearing is better at is point blank (under 1.5), and the slightly dubious hobour of an 800m window wherw it gets flak clouds and the groz doesnt

Wait. Do I see it right that Z-52 has the best base AA among all t10 DDs? Best DPS AND best flak all the way from 0 to 4km and then long-range AA comparable to the rest of them? She has better base AA not only compared to the consumable-equipped DDs - she's better than Harugumo at everything but the extreme (4-5,8) range...

 

Did Z-52 always have good AA (although irrelevant by lack of def. AA) or is it a new addition?

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1 hour ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

 

 

So Gearing is the new AA-Top-Dog at TX, unless they change the AA stats with the update as well. 

 

Guess we will have to wait for the patch notes tomorrow. 

 

Isnt the Fletcher a bit better AA wise and the Kidd a lot better than the Gearing?

 

Edit: i just saw you are talking about only tier10 my bad

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3 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Did Z-52 always have good AA (although irrelevant by lack of def. AA) or is it a new addition?

 

The base values were always pretty decent as far as I remember. I'd have to check tho so don't take my word on it.

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10 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

That is silly, as it depends on the player and if he is using his ship correctly. 

Gearing is more scary to a DD close-up and Grozo is more scary at range.

But what you obviously didn't understand is that I was not talking about DD vs DD.

 

Grozo has just way more utility in Random Battles with these amazing guns (especially the AP) and that speed. You can play it like a Khaba if needed, especially after BB-AP-Nerf. And the torpedoes are not that much worse than the Fletcher ones - just longer reload. But the guns make up for that easily. 

 

Giving it all the consumables at once was just a bit too much. 

I'd love to see some recent stats but have no energy to fight with Maple Syrup's output to get something useful out of it, so let's leave this on "respectfully disagreeing", considering how different a value we seem to attach to certain aspects of these ships' performance. And taking into account that it's an offtop here - we have a much more interesting (in the context of AA of variiious DDs) table...

 

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

The base values were always pretty decent as far as I remember. I'd have to check tho so don't take my word on it.

In fact, the values right now seem actually pretty impressive once I look at them. She spits insane amounts of flak explosions... although I'm not sure how defensive fire consumable actually works right now? Does it affect flak in some way (be it number of explosions or damage dealt by them), or only serves as a multiplier to aura DPS (that, for DDs, probably won't do all that much even when multiplied)?

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18 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Wait. Do I see it right that Z-52 has the best base AA among all t10 DDs? Best DPS AND best flak all the way from 0 to 4km and then long-range AA comparable to the rest of them? She has better base AA not only compared to the consumable-equipped DDs - she's better than Harugumo at everything but the extreme (4-5,8) range...

 

Did Z-52 always have good AA (although irrelevant by lack of def. AA) or is it a new addition?

Want comedy? Look at how many flak bursts the conquerer's midrange gets compared to everything else.

Edit: These values might not be what actually makes it into 0.8.0 - I notice the yamato has its short range listed as ~800 but I believe thats currently ~1400 on PTS

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19 hours ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Until you have a Gearing yourself, you will have to take my world for it. :Smile-_tongue:

Pre-nerf Yeuyang on the other hand. . .

 

I can't make Groz work. It kills other DDs reliably, but for everything else Gearing is the better ship. I play with a ping of 180 though so gun accuracy is comical at the best of times. 

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7 minutes ago, That_Other_Nid said:

I can't make Groz work. It kills other DDs reliably, but for everything else Gearing is the better ship. I play with a ping of 180 though so gun accuracy is comical at the best of times. 

 

Grozo is all about the guns of course. Gearing is the better torpedo boat. 

 

But Grozo is not missing much on its torpedoes, mainly reload compared to Gearing (unless you use the 16.5 of course, which are better for competitive). And for that, the guns, the speed and the heal are crazy good... 

 

And since the AP nerf, it doesn't suffer that much from its fat booty anymore... 

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56 minutes ago, eliastion said:

In fact, the values right now seem actually pretty impressive once I look at them.

 

I just checked. Currently a Z-52 has the following base AA:

128mm guns - 5km range, 45 dps

55mm guns, 5km range, 52 dps

37mm guns, 3.5km range, 72 dps

 

All in all 169 dps at 3.5km. That's pretty much the same base mid range AA that Helena gets (165 dps total at 3.5km, at 2km the 20mm guns add another 60 dps to that).

Won't discourage T9/10 CVs ofc but T8 CVs might suffer if you choose to invest into AA. Which for a DD is ofc impractical for the most part.

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