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Barney_Wobba

Matchmaking

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Hi, just wondering how matchmaking works. I know we've all seen it, random battles where we consistently lose or win...like many I've seen both but I wanted to ask how does it work? As time has gone on I have gotten better and better but I find the team I play with is as random as a sack of mad badgers even at rank 10!

Today I ask because I think I have played 21 battles, lost 16 and won 5, despite good team play with the small team I was with at a particular flag etc.

Is this just normal? To make you better? Or is it MM being messed up...

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Depends on what game mode you are doing.

 

Random battles are just that, random. Outside of ship type and tier it doesn't care about other stuff like player skill or what ship of a particular type it matches with. Same with Co-op, except with bots.

Ranked is like random, except with the extra layer of matching based on league.

 

Not sure about clan battles, haven't experienced anything with that.

 

Basically, when you join a random battle its a flip of the coin on whether your team wins or not, you just happened to get tails a few more times then heads. Personally I would prefer it be a bit different, but that's random battles for ya.

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Two more losses at t10....the tactics to me are blatantly obvious but the team seems to still be like a t3 bunch...I don't get it. Iam at about 16 or 17 losses and 4 wins and the night is young!

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Honest answer?

You simply arent good enough for hightiers. if you want to have more of an impact to win, you need to get better.

I dont know how much or if you track your own  stats, but this is a good side to see how you are progressing:

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/547834133,Barney_Wobba/

 

I think you should continue playing at T5-T7 at try to have more of an impact there, it certainly is easier than on T8+. But either way, your damage output seems just too low.

 

Apart from that:

Dont expect anything from your team, especially at hightiers. Most people are simply bad at this game. They probably care only about shooting stuff. They wont sacrifice their own ship for a win, but they certainly are willing to die to deal more damage if they think they have already won, which most of the time ends up in a loss. Ive seen horrendous throws in this game, for who knows what reasons...

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Would you have created this thread if you had a winning streak instead?

 

The matchmaker is random. It does not decide if you win or lose. It doesn't look at the stats of you or any other player.

All the MM cares for are the ships that are matched against each other. That they are of equal nation and equal class on both sides whenever possible.

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22 losses and 4 win, last man standing and oterhs with CV...surely this is messed up?

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57 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Honest answer?

You simply arent good enough for hightiers. if you want to have more of an impact to win, you need to get better.

I dont know how much or if you track your own  stats, but this is a good side to see how you are progressing:

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/547834133,Barney_Wobba/

 

I think you should continue playing at T5-T7 at try to have more of an impact there, it certainly is easier than on T8+. But either way, your damage output seems just too low.

 

Apart from that:

Dont expect anything from your team, especially at hightiers. Most people are simply bad at this game. They probably care only about shooting stuff. They wont sacrifice their own ship for a win, but they certainly are willing to die to deal more damage if they think they have already won, which most of the time ends up in a loss. Ive seen horrendous throws in this game, for who knows what reasons...

Thanks, yea I know I am still kinda new...I watch loads of videos, i Play quite a lot, I see other peoples mistakes...I am of a mind to not die so I stay safe and that loses me a lot of dps.

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35 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

Would you have created this thread if you had a winning streak instead?

No.

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First. The losing streaks are part of the package. We all suffer them. Second: like already posted, seeing your stats I'd say you've "rushed" through the UK cruiserline tier. Seeing that's where you live I'm not surprised. Know that that line is one of the hardest to grind in this game. I have fulminated against them for a long time but picked up the glove and grinded it myself. I was so glad to have proven wrong about them. I think they are a blast to play now. Only you need to know all the basics of this game thoroughly. I agree with @DFens_666 you really need to build up more player experience in low/ mid tiers. Lastly: IMO you don't play div enough. You're in quite a big clan: ask your fellows to div with you. With a division you have bigger influence on the match but more importantly: you'll learn the tricks better.

 

Regarding tricks: use this forum. And don't be shy to ask questions. Hint: best response you'll get if you ask them in a humble matter. Rule of thumb: it's you until proven otherwise. And the "it's me" has been proven in all the cases here as far as I know.

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24 minutes ago, Barney_Wobba said:

No.

Then why create it at all?

 

No matter how much you complain about it, or how many tinfoil hat theories you create, it will be random. Sometimes you lose and sometimes you win. Streaks are part of the deal. No one guarantees you a win after X loses.

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It is very random but you aint just there for the ride and your performance can lift a team, or sink them if u dont do your part.

I recommend playing tier 7 because MM is "easier", do that until you get the hang of positioning etc. Move up to tier 8 now and again and you will get u into a lot of tier 10 battles without your team relying so heavily on your performance.

 

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38 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

You're in quite a big clan: ask your fellows to div with you. With a division you have bigger influence on the match

Triple 45%WR div. Bigger influence... Well yeah, but positive? :cap_tea: best way to improve is using the help of the forumites as you said Ferry. 

 

@Barney_Wobba take an example to @Saltface in receiving constructive criticism to his replays and becoming a better player. Works wonders I promise. If only I had discovered this option when I started to play the game I would have saved myself from making so many mistakes again and again lol. 

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Vor 1 Stunde, Barney_Wobba sagte:

22 losses and 4 win, last man standing and oterhs with CV...surely this is messed up?

Something else that might have an influence in this case is explained in this thread: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/363470-being-on-tilt-in-world-of-tanks/

Don't let the tanks bother you, the situation is the same for many games and that thread helps you to understand it.

 

In short: A losing streak is not good for your psyche and results in even more losses. Better stop playing for some hours if you lose too many games.

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51 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Triple 45%WR div. Bigger influence... Well yeah, but positive? :cap_tea: best way to improve is using the help of the forumites as you said Ferry. 

 

Might result in a good 30% depending on ships picked :cap_fainting:

 

1 hour ago, Barney_Wobba said:

Thanks, yea I know I am still kinda new...I watch loads of videos, i Play quite a lot, I see other peoples mistakes...I am of a mind to not die so I stay safe and that loses me a lot of dps.

 

You should upload some replays and let some forumites have a look at it. There are enough people around he who are willing to help if someone asks for it. The advice most of the time makes the player aware of his mistakes, which makes him a better player (so you will win more often :Smile-_tongue:)

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12 hours ago, Barney_Wobba said:

Is this just normal?

It is, with your stats. MM has nothing with it. 

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15 hours ago, Barney_Wobba said:

Is this just normal? To make you better? Or is it MM being messed up...

Some thoughts:

  • 20-30 battle sample is not statistically relevant.
  • The random MM does not take player skill into account. This results in ~30% games that you will definitely lose and another ~30% that you will win even if you go AFK. The remaining ~40% is what you can affect with your skill, resulting in player win rate spread of something around 33-72%. This also means that even the best players can have a losing streak.
  • The only constant in all your games is you. Improve your knowledge and skill in the game and overall win percentage will start to rise.
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Ahhh, the Salty one has been summoned.

 

How kind of you dear Sir @GarrusBrutus to use my humbleness as an example. One has always claimed that even the useless are useful in being an example of what not to do.

 

Dear @Barney_Wobba, I faced exactly the same issue. After a wonderful 200+ battles with the Scharnhorst (50%WR) I dramatically fell to the low 30's in the Gneisenau. Both are T7 and sister ships. So I wondered, I asked and got ripped apart by true and honest criticism. To my utmost pleasure I was not pampered. It worked. I did not turn overnight into a super player. Just know a bit better what is to be done and have a few targets on how to better my game.

 

I am in no position do give advise. I seek advise. However, I can share the following.

 

Experience in this game is twofold. One aspect is battles played, the other aspect is time.

You are playing many battles a day. Result is that your brains do not have the time to process the information and create knowledge structures. This comes only with time. (I know, been there - almost 2,000 battles in two months)

 

Let me illustrate with an example.

 

Pin Ball

The first few games we play we are rather good at it. This is because we play instinctively.

As we play more games our performance drops. Why? = one might ask =  Simply because we think. Thinking is a slower process than instinctive reaction.

Until knowledge is consolidated and our thinking is replaced by instinctive reaction our performance will suffer.

 

Same with WoW. We start playing the game instinctively.

As we play, read articles and reviews and watch videos, our instinctive reactions are replaced by thoughtful actions - backed up with newly acquired information and experience. Logical isn't it? Now you have access to a pool of information that you lacked before and experience from the battles you played.

 

But thoughtful actions are a tad slower (and wrong at times) than instinctive reactions and at the same time you have left the lower tiers where things are easy.

 

Hence, a combination of how our brains work and increased difficulty of your up-tiering is the answer to your problem.

 

And trust me, if you go now down to T3 or T4 you will suffer loss after loss and you will not believe it. It will contradict all your beliefs.

Then, I am afraid, you will wear the tin foil cap and blame all for sealclubbing.

 

No my dear Lady.

 

It is the learning curve that you cant cheat.

 

My advise.

 

Be humble and wise. 

ALL will help. "They" love it. "They" love sharing their knowledge because "they" want the game to be better.

And "they" are also selfish. The more of us novice players enter the ranks of average, good or very good players the more "they" will enjoy the game.

 

It is a win win situation.

 

Don't ask me for advise. I am as novice as you are.

 

Regards,

Saltface

 

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On 1/29/2019 at 11:46 AM, Saltface said:

Ahhh, the Salty one has been summoned.

 

How kind of you dear Sir @GarrusBrutus to use my humbleness as an example. One has always claimed that even the useless are useful in being an example of what not to do.

 

Dear @Barney_Wobba, I faced exactly the same issue. After a wonderful 200+ battles with the Scharnhorst (50%WR) I dramatically fell to the low 30's in the Gneisenau. Both are T7 and sister ships. So I wondered, I asked and got ripped apart by true and honest criticism. To my utmost pleasure I was not pampered. It worked. I did not turn overnight into a super player. Just know a bit better what is to be done and have a few targets on how to better my game.

 

I am in no position do give advise. I seek advise. However, I can share the following.

 

Experience in this game is twofold. One aspect is battles played, the other aspect is time.

You are playing many battles a day. Result is that your brains do not have the time to process the information and create knowledge structures. This comes only with time. (I know, been there - almost 2,000 battles in two months)

 

Let me illustrate with an example.

 

Pin Ball

The first few games we play we are rather good at it. This is because we play instinctively.

As we play more games our performance drops. Why? = one might ask =  Simply because we think. Thinking is a slower process than instinctive reaction.

Until knowledge is consolidated and our thinking is replaced by instinctive reaction our performance will suffer.

 

Same with WoW. We start playing the game instinctively.

As we play, read articles and reviews and watch videos, our instinctive reactions are replaced by thoughtful actions - backed up with newly acquired information and experience. Logical isn't it? Now you have access to a pool of information that you lacked before and experience from the battles you played.

 

But thoughtful actions are a tad slower (and wrong at times) than instinctive reactions and at the same time you have left the lower tiers where things are easy.

 

Hence, a combination of how our brains work and increased difficulty of your up-tiering is the answer to your problem.

 

And trust me, if you go now down to T3 or T4 you will suffer loss after loss and you will not believe it. It will contradict all your beliefs.

Then, I am afraid, you will wear the tin foil cap and blame all for sealclubbing.

 

No my dear Lady.

 

It is the learning curve that you cant cheat.

 

My advise.

 

Be humble and wise. 

ALL will help. "They" love it. "They" love sharing their knowledge because "they" want the game to be better.

And "they" are also selfish. The more of us novice players enter the ranks of average, good or very good players the more "they" will enjoy the game.

 

It is a win win situation.

 

Don't ask me for advise. I am as novice as you are.

 

Regards,

Saltface

 

Thanks Salty :D Interesting analysis of the development of ones skills. I do find this to be true.

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On 1/28/2019 at 9:08 PM, GarrusBrutus said:

Triple 45%WR div. Bigger influence... Well yeah, but positive? :cap_tea: best way to improve is using the help of the forumites as you said Ferry. 

 

@Barney_Wobba take an example to @Saltface in receiving constructive criticism to his replays and becoming a better player. Works wonders I promise. If only I had discovered this option when I started to play the game I would have saved myself from making so many mistakes again and again lol. 

This is so so true. if you come on here blaming everything else for losing, you will get jumped on, generally these type never seem to accept and never get better. As Saltface says, come on here genuinely asking for advice and listen to that advice, and the same people that would have jumped on you for whining will offer you some of the best advice going.

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1 hour ago, Malfuss said:

This is so so true. if you come on here blaming everything else for losing, you will get jumped on, generally these type never seem to accept and never get better. As Saltface says, come on here genuinely asking for advice and listen to that advice, and the same people that would have jumped on you for whining will offer you some of the best advice going.

Yeah right, it's not about what you ask but the way you ask it. And it is not only beginners who can ask for help. Even experienced captains sometimes need some help or insights from fellow captains in order to become better. 

After some time on the forums it has become obvious that people who open threads with lots of capital letters screaming something is OP/broken/cheats or whatnot, will most likely not be open for constructive criticism. So they get the sarcastic, cinical and comical answers from the community. 

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