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Tyrendian89

Ranked Steel, CB steel

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Sort of a random thought that popped into my mind when reading the info about the next Ranked season...

I like how (almost?) every Rank you achieve rewards you a little bit of Steel, in contrast to the CB missions where you have only up to three big chunks per League, which you can quite easily miss by just one win and be quite frustrated (and/or can cause issues within a clan when someone feels like he was prevented from getting that last win by organisational issues or what have you). Why not spread out the Steel rewards in Clan Battles as well? The infrastructure is obviously there - it's already done that way for the "cherry on top" Hurricane mission...

So, am I missing some big argument against this? What are your thoughts? :Smile_Default:

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I think CBs rewards spread is decent no need for a change.

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There are already posts on reddit where people show that they missed a big steel payout by 1 win. I don't like that, I don't like the fact that there are people who put in the time and got screwed on the last curve of the race before the finish line. The game should be fun and not a rat race.

My clan played typhoon until the alpha team had the first stage done, then we tried to get wins for other clan members in storm, so that they could too get steel.

 

PS: This type of gatekeeping steel makes people decide not to play CBs.

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19 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

There are already posts on reddit where people show that they missed a big steel payout by 1 win. I don't like that, I don't like the fact that there are people who put in the time and got screwed on the last curve of the race before the finish line. The game should be fun and not a rat race.

My clan played typhoon until the alpha team had the first stage done, then we tried to get wins for other clan members in storm, so that they could too get steel.

 

PS: This type of gatekeeping steel makes people decide not to play CBs.

that was sort of my thinking too - hence why I'm curious about the upsides people see in the current system (just because I dont really see any doesnt mean they dont exist^^).

I'd also be curious about WG's view on the matter, actually... @MrConway @Crysantos &co, any insights you'd care to share? Your perspective is kind of different from ours, after all... :Smile_Default:

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2 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

that was sort of my thinking too - hence why I'm curious about the upsides people see in the current system (just because I dont really see any doesnt mean they dont exist^^).

I'd also be curious about WG's view on the matter, actually... @MrConway @Crysantos &co, any insights you'd care to share? Your perspective is kind of different from ours, after all... :Smile_Default:

Well, the one big upside of the currents system of 7->8->15 wins is that they can bundle rewards with steel for different stages with ease. So that beside the steel reward people can get signals, camos, premium time etc.

This would be much harder with the simple per win system that is used in hurricane league. But if one would detach the steel rewards from the other ones, then it would be easy. And to be honest, steel is the main CB reward.

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41 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

There are already posts on reddit where people show that they missed a big steel payout by 1 win. I don't like that, I don't like the fact that there are people who put in the time and got screwed on the last curve of the race before the finish line.

and how many ppl got bonus steel when CBs were prolonged by one week? They are not complaining I guess. Any system is perfect for everyone, always someone will be upset about something. 

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Different levels of player commitment.

 

In CBs you don't have individual players looking at the whole thing and going "eh, I'll try". You start out with an organized group of players by definition. Compare that to Ranked and you're much more likely to see individual players look at the rewards and think to themselves they can have a go at it and get something out of it for basically any level of effort they put into it. Might even sell a Ranked-themed premium bundle to someone who thinks it gives him an edge.

 

Ranked is simply a much broader target audience with a presumably much lower retention rate (few people stick it out to rank #1), so rewarding players at shorter intervals offers a more gratifying experience even to players who haven't committed heavily into it.

Ranked is also typically played at tiers where WG sells the most premium ships and as such giving the impression of easier rewards for less commitment can directly translate to profits.

 

I don't see that changing anytime soon unless WG drops CBs to lower tiers.

 

 

 

Not saying CB rewards couldn't be given out at shorter intervals, but I'm having a hard time seeing WG caring about it when there's little for them to gain from it.

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11 minutes ago, Quetak said:

and how many ppl got bonus steel when CBs were prolonged by one week? They are not complaining I guess. Any system is perfect for everyone, always someone will be upset about something. 

not sure how that extension has much relation to how the rewards are distributed?

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1 minute ago, Aotearas said:

Different levels of player commitment.

 

In CBs you don't have individual players looking at the whole thing and going "eh, I'll try". You start out with an organized group of players by definition. Compare that to Ranked and you're much more likely to see individual players look at the rewards and think to themselves they can have a go at it and get something out of it for basically any level of effort they put into it. Might even sell a Ranked-themed premium bundle to someone who thinks it gives him an edge.

 

Ranked is simply a much broader target audience with a presumably much lower retention rate (few people stick it out to rank #1), so rewarding players at shorter intervals offers a more gratifying experience even to players who haven't committed heavily into it.

Ranked is also typically played at tiers where WG sells the most premium ships and as such giving the impression of easier rewards for less commitment can directly translate to profits.

 

I don't see that changing anytime soon unless WG drops CBs to lower tiers.

 

 

 

Not saying CB rewards couldn't be given out at shorter intervals, but I'm having a hard time seeing WG caring about it when there's little for them to gain from it.

fair point there! That's (at least part of, I guess) the other side of the coin that I was missing, thanks.

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Nice idea! I like it! Easy to implement QoL improvement in my opinion... 

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18 minutes ago, Quetak said:

and how many ppl got bonus steel when CBs were prolonged by one week? They are not complaining I guess. Any system is perfect for everyone, always someone will be upset about something. 

First, any system can be made better. It's a normal way of life. The opposite is stagnation.

Second, thank you for this argument. It illustrates how people who had their fill and would be unaffected by the change, will try to limit access to resources for others, even if the resources in question are unlimited.

 

11 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Not saying CB rewards couldn't be given out at shorter intervals, but I'm having a hard time seeing WG caring about it when there's little for them to gain from it. 

What they could gain from it, is greater participation from clans that give up, because they don't believe they can get enough wins to reach a mission goal. It's easier to convince someone to go for a smaller target, than to get him to strive for something large like 7 wins. Having a per-win reward could lead to more clans trying to play CBs in the long term.

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2 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

It illustrates how people who had their fill and would be unaffected by the change, will try to limit access to resources for others, even if the resources in question are unlimited.

you think that im not affected? I finished rewards on Thursday in bonus week. So I was happy that I can finish it also.

But I will never come to forum or elsewhere start crying because I hadnt enought time in 3 months to finish it, even by 1 damn win.

Its about priorities. When someones priority is family no problem, but then dont listen his cry when he cant reach rewards he thinks he deserve. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Quetak said:

you think that im not affected? I finished rewards on Thursday in bonus week. So I was happy that I can finish it also.

But I will never come to forum or elsewhere start crying because I hadnt enought time in 3 months to finish it, even by 1 damn win.

Its about priorities. When someones priority is family no problem, but then dont listen his cry when he cant reach rewards he thinks he deserve. 

 

errr.... how about you calm down a little? There hasnt been a single bit of "crying" in here...

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2 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

errr.... how about you calm down a little? There hasnt been a single bit of "crying" in here...

I count this one

1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

There are already posts on reddit where people show that they missed a big steel payout by 1 win. I don't like that, I don't like the fact that there are people who put in the time and got screwed on the last curve of the race before the finish line. The game should be fun and not a rat race.

 

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18 minutes ago, Quetak said:

I count this one

 

I'm sorry, but if you equate criticism with "crying" then I can't take your arguments seriously.

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1 minute ago, Aragathor said:

I'm sorry, but if you equate criticism with "crying" then I can't take your arguments seriously.

im just tired from "everyone deserves everything". And if he cant reach it then change whole system so he can. I see it in so many games....

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12 minutes ago, Quetak said:

im just tired from "everyone deserves everything". And if he cant reach it then change whole system so he can. I see it in so many games....

 

That doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion at hand though, does it?

 

Everyone has a different approach to the game and it is only fair that they suggest means of making some of the higher-end content more accessible to more people. We are not a game populated by students and/or kids that have loads of time to play. 

 

Our average player is probably more like me, who is glad to get a few hours of gaming done while juggling a job, kids and wife - and I for one have no issue with making steel more accessible.

 

1 hour ago, Tyrendian89 said:

 that was sort of my thinking too - hence why I'm curious about the upsides people see in the current system (just because I dont really see any doesnt mean they dont exist^^).

I'd also be curious about WG's view on the matter, actually... @MrConway @Crysantos &co, any insights you'd care to share? Your perspective is kind of different from ours, after all... :Smile_Default:

 

The above being said, it comes with a caveat. It cannot be too easy, or it would devalue the currency as an end-game goal to motivate people to play all the battles needed.

 

How exactly would you improve the system to make it fairer but still motivate people to log in and play for the rewards?

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I have written a biting response here, but @MrConwayresponded and I decided that it would be mean to post it.

 

3 minutes ago, MrConway said:

How exactly would you improve the system to make it fairer but still motivate people to log in and play for the rewards?

Split the rewards missions into two. Have the steel rewards per league be rewarded per win in small amounts until the current total league reward is reached. Have the other rewards continue with the 7/8/15 win system.

This would create an incentive for players to go for "one more win for steel", while still rewarding those that go for the top. it would also lessen the impact for those that missed out, as they would miss out on only a fraction of the steel reward they currently miss.

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3 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

The above being said, it comes with a caveat. It cannot be too easy, or it would devalue the currency as an end-game goal to motivate people to play all the battles needed.

 

How exactly would you improve the system to make it fairer but still motivate people to log in and play for the rewards?

I dont think I'd argue for significantly changing the overall maximum amount of steel handed out per season, or the total required wins for getting that amount - it's just the chunking in big packs with a set number of wins that I don't really like, simply because it has the potential to create these frustrating situations.

Then again, I do realise that by switching to this kind of constant stream of small rewards, the average amount of Steel gained by players that don't make it to the end would increase a bit because "every single win" would give something (until the max of course), as opposed to now where you can end up with a dozen wins that "don't give you anything" because they're not enough to complete the last stage of the Typhoon mission, for example. On the other hand, those that play enough to get all the rewards available for whichever league their clan managed to reach wouldn't feel a difference.

 

Whether that's a sensible thing to do, and how much extra steel per player that would end up being on average, you know much better than me because you have the numbers :Smile_Default:

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1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

What they could gain from it, is greater participation from clans that give up

WG doesn't gain from that though. Whether clans give up or not makes WG no more or less money. Not at tier X at least.

 

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1 minute ago, Aotearas said:

WG doesn't gain from that though. Whether clans give up or not makes WG no more or less money.

 

they do (indirectly) profit from making their players happier, or in this case reducing one particular source of frustration, because happy players stick around more than frustrated ones^^

(yes yes call me a naive idealist :Smile_teethhappy: )

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4 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

I have written a biting response here, but @MrConwayresponded and I decided that it would be mean to post it.

 

Split the rewards missions into two. Have the steel rewards per league be rewarded per win in small amounts until the current total league reward is reached. Have the other rewards continue with the 7/8/15 win system.

This would create an incentive for players to go for "one more win for steel", while still rewarding those that go for the top. it would also lessen the impact for those that missed out, as they would miss out on only a fraction of the steel reward they currently miss.

As I completely agree with "missing 1 game to get 2500 steel" argument, this is what he said caveeat - if you split it more, it will also result in different reasoning, imagine random person in current system:

"I need to play 5 more games to get big chunk aka 2500 steel so I have to show up"

or the new one

"I don't have to show up anymore becuase its only 300 steel more to win"

 

the problem is that still technicaly it is harder to provide steel to everyone...

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3 minutes ago, Griva said:

As I completely agree with "missing 1 game to get 2500 steel" argument, this is what he said caveeat - if you split it more, it will also result in different reasoning, imagine random person in current system:

"I need to play 5 more games to get big chunk aka 2500 steel so I have to show up"

or the new one

"I don't have to show up anymore becuase its only 300 steel more to win"

 

the problem is that still technicaly it is harder to provide steel to everyone...

another fair point that I hadn't really considered - thanks :cap_like:

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41 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

That doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion at hand though, does it?

 

Everyone has a different approach to the game and it is only fair that they suggest means of making some of the higher-end content more accessible to more people. We are not a game populated by students and/or kids that have loads of time to play. 

 

Our average player is probably more like me, who is glad to get a few hours of gaming done while juggling a job, kids and wife - and I for one have no issue with making steel more accessible.

 

 

The above being said, it comes with a caveat. It cannot be too easy, or it would devalue the currency as an end-game goal to motivate people to play all the battles needed.

 

How exactly would you improve the system to make it fairer but still motivate people to log in and play for the rewards?

Take the current maximum steel reward for a cb season, but instead of giving out large amounts for every 7 or 8 wins in a certain league as it is currently, give out a small amount for every victory in that league.

 

In essence you would still need the same amount of wins in the same leages, the only change would be that you get a little steel for each win, rather than a big payday after several wins.

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1 hour ago, MrConway said:

How exactly would you improve the system to make it fairer but still motivate people to log in and play for the rewards?

The question being, what are the rewards that keep people playing? Is it the steel, is it the special camo, the premium time or the special ressources?

 

However if we go down the route @Tyrendian89 suggested one possible solution could look like (Typhoon league rewards as an example):

 

Stage 1 now: 7 wins, 1000 steel, 10 asia lantern camo

Stage 1 "improved": 2 wins, 300 steel; 2 wins, 300 steel; 3 wins, 400 steel plus 10 asia lantern camo

 

Stage 2 now: 8 wins, 1000 steel, 100k free XP, 150k commander XP

Stage 2 "improved":  3 wins, 300 steel, 25k fXP + 25k commander XP; 3 wins, 300 steel, 25k fXP + 25k commander XP; 2 wins, 400 steel, 50k fXP plus 100k commander XP

 

Stage 3 now: 15 wins, 1000 steel, 10 mosaic camo, 1 Molybdenum plus 1000 extra steel

Stage 3 "improved":  3 wins, 250 steel; 3 wins, 250 steel; 3 wins, 250 steel; 3 wins, 250 steel; 3 wins, 1000 steel, 10 mosaic camo plus 1 Molybdenum

 

Note that it is not about increasing the rewards or lessen the number of games played, but to (at least partially) make the rewards available in small steps, rather than en bloc.

 

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