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DD tactics for 0.8.0, how do we survive?

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8 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I am hoping that this at least has been alleviated with the rework?

 

Boy, you wish.

Potato CVs are even more useless now because they can't WASD, aim or do anything really aside from wasting planes. Even DD AA will utterly demolish them.

Skilled CVs just murder everything.

 

Basically it will come down to whether or not your CV can kill the enemy team faster than the enemy CV can kill yours.

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1 hour ago, Procrastes said:

Wow..! :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Anyway, one of my main problems with the current carrier gameplay is that if there is a skill gap between the carrier players, the team with the less skilled carrier player usually ends up with an almost crippling disadvantage in the match. It doesn't happen every time, but when it does, you really feel it. I am hoping that this at least has been alleviated with the rework? If the new carrier gameplay is more easily accessible to "normal" players, as has been said to be the case, there might be some normalization...?

Kinda, the CV player is less responsible for countering the enemy CV. The fighters are more a control zone tool e.g. to protect a cap with a friendly dd inside. The difference is, that a good CV will do more damage. But that's kinda normal in this game, good bbs do also more damage than bad bbs.

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17 hours ago, Shady_runner said:

Does this mean that DD play will have to change to a more passive role at the start, holding back like Khab and Asashio

Forget CV's. It has got that way anyway at top tier level because of all the radar ships that head for cap and pick you up. In fact, they pose more a problem than CV's ever will entering cap.

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8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

[...]

Basically it will come down to whether or not your CV can kill the enemy team faster than the enemy CV can kill yours.

 

So basically like it was before. The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

If the two t10 CVs were good before 8.0 then it would just become a DPM race between them.

 

I dunno, I am not that worried for some reason.

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I heard from somebody in-game there will be a 160 second timer of planes re-spawning on ships to allow for them having unlimited planes. If that is true then I guess that is being done to allow for them having unlimited planes in that they can't use them as often as now.

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11 hours ago, Procrastes said:

I thought the idea of this carrier rework, or part of it anyway, was to make it less easy for skilled carrier players to dominate an entire match...? Actually making it easier for them to take out any ship at will, would seem to go somewhat against this aim. Or am I getting it wrong, here?

No you are getting it wrong. The goal was to make it harder for very good CVs to dominate the enemy cv and locking him out of the game by deplaning him, so that more bad players want to play it because they can actualy achieve something. That goal they definatly achieved unless you get a very speshul cv player that flies his planes in the summoned fighter zones all the time and wonder why he loses his planes.

 

10 hours ago, Procrastes said:

Anyway, one of my main problems with the current carrier gameplay is that if there is a skill gap between the carrier players, the team with the less skilled carrier player usually ends up with an almost crippling disadvantage in the match. It doesn't happen every time, but when it does, you really feel it. I am hoping that this at least has been alleviated with the rework? If the new carrier gameplay is more easily accessible to "normal" players, as has been said to be the case, there might be some normalization...?

No it's still a damagerace which the better player will still always win. Only now the very bad players will be even worse because WG took away their nooby autodrop. There is no cure to stupidity and WG seems to want to learn it the hard way.

 

7 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

I heard from somebody in-game there will be a 160 second timer of planes re-spawning on ships to allow for them having unlimited planes. If that is true then I guess that is being done to allow for them having unlimited planes in that they can't use them as often as now.

The long preparation time of lost planes is only relevant for higher Tiers as the Tier IV timers are more like a few secounds. The hightier CVs on the other hand are way harder to kill if the cv captain is any good so that is relative unlimited as well.

 

 

On Topic:

Me and my DD Skippers will hide in Ranked for several weeks until the dust has settled and I will attempt to learn my favourite class again. I may join the CV horde as well to try out the new gameplay on live until I get bored after 20 games (like on the tests). I have to find out if I want the dubloons for my premium CVs after all.

For which ship to pick I expect Grozo or Khaba as the best choices as those tend to be unaffected by changes all the time and this seems to be no different here.

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14 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

Me and my DD Skippers will hide in Ranked for several weeks until the dust has settled and I will attempt to learn my favourite class again. I may join the CV horde as well to try out the new gameplay on live until I get bored after 20 games (like on the tests). I have to find out if I want the dubloons for my premium CVs after all.

Can't say I care much about CV's when in my DD ship. They tend to go for easier targets first anyway such as BB's. Easier targets, and they can farm more damage from them. What does bother me somewhat right now is the amount of Radar ships included in top tier matches making it impossible to play a DD proper in them unless you have 20k torps. I am seriously thinking about only playing DD's at T6/7 and stopping playing them in T8/9/10 matches altogether, I include T8 ships because they get lumped in too many T9/10 matches with them also.. Not because of CV's one bit, but because of too many radar ships in every high tier match ruining things for DD playing.

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8 hours ago, MRGTB said:

Can't say I care much about CV's when in my DD ship. They tend to go for easier targets first anyway such as BB's. Easier targets, and they can farm more damage from them. What does bother me somewhat right now is the amount of Radar ships included in top tier matches making it impossible to play a DD proper in them unless you have 20k torps. I am seriously thinking about only playing DD's at T6/7 and stopping playing them in T8/9/10 matches altogether, I include T8 ships because they get lumped in too many T9/10 matches with them also.. Not because of CV's one bit, but because of too many radar ships in every high tier match ruining things for DD playing.

Except in 8.0 you are the easy target with rocket planes... correct me if Im wrong, but XP is calculated in % of the targets health, not the amount of HP you do. 

Regarding the radar meta, I totally agrea. Lets hope the radar "rework"  is going to be better then the CV rework....

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8 hours ago, Kehldon said:

Regarding the radar meta, I totally agrea. Lets hope the radar "rework"  is going to be better then the CV rework....

So far radar rework = huge radar buff.

Many ships with 9-9.4k radar range are buffed to 10km.

Radars will spot only for radar cruiser for 6 sec but soviet radars duration will be 5 sec longer and with 12km range.

Even indianapolis (tier 7) radar will have 10km range so if you really hate radars, stay at tier 4 :)

 

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1 hour ago, karol66 said:

So far radar rework = huge radar buff.

Many ships with 9-9.4k radar range are buffed to 10km.

Radars will spot only for radar cruiser for 6 sec but soviet radars duration will be 5 sec longer and with 12km range.

Even indianapolis (tier 7) radar will have 10km range so if you really hate radars, stay at tier 4 :)

 

But then tier 4 CV will keep molesting you. And there even potato players will struggle to lose planes to AA because there is barely any.

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On 1/30/2019 at 5:01 PM, karol66 said:

Even indianapolis (tier 7) radar will have 10km range so if you really hate radars, stay at tier 4 :)

No need to drop down to tier 4 level. You can drop down to tier 6/7 playing DD and avoid most games having any radar ships in them and enjoy playing a DD 100x more than at T9/10.

 

Don't mind a game that might have 1 radar ship included in the enemy team. But when you play T9/10, there might be 3/4 (sometimes more) radar ships on the enemy team, and others having far reaching hyrdo scans as well. Then it just becomes impossible for DD to play the game. All you do is spend all match trying to avoid being detected with little of nothing else achieved because of it.

 

There seems to be "this thing" at the minute in top tier games, that everyone wants a radar ship so they can rush to caps hiding behind islands and detect anyone that enters cap. People who can't really play and just want to make use of a radar ship for the lolz.

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I have played 3 games since new patch. I've seen just how bad things can be for a team with a crap CV player who does not support his team. It was bad enough before the patch, now it just highlights the massive difference between a CV player who supports his team and on who just does his own thing

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On 1/28/2019 at 1:39 AM, _Teob_ said:

I have not tested it yet but my plan is to play a more or less full AA Grozo. 

 

You get long range accurate guns, def aa and a heal.

 

I have always hated getting killed by CVs so I am just trying to maximize my chances of staying alive. Not sure how well it will work

Saw you at it today, you murdered our Musashi and Haku from behind ... I had to compliment you :-)

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One thing I noticed, rockets screw a DD over by simply destroying everything. After the patch I had for the first time ever a destroyed turret on a DD. Never happened to me before. One squadron of Haku rockets and half of my Khabarovsk was inoperable. Looks like I will need BoS now on the ship ?

 

Basically I have transitioned to Khaba only and I don't care about anything. I just run and gun like a mad chicken and only start caring about a win if we lead on ships by a serious margin (like 2:1).

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13 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Saw you at it today, you murdered our Musashi and Haku from behind ... I had to compliment you :-)

 

Haha, yeah I noticed you too - hence why I did the "o7" at the start - I should have been more specific.

 

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Oh and on topic, I don't think the situation is too bad. The Grozovoi at least is perfectly fine in this new meta. Sure CVs will kill you if they decide to focus you but between def AA, smoke and sheer speed, they prefer to go for other targets.

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1 hour ago, _Teob_ said:

Oh and on topic, I don't think the situation is too bad. The Grozovoi at least is perfectly fine in this new meta. Sure CVs will kill you if they decide to focus you but between def AA, smoke and sheer speed, they prefer to go for other targets.

Now try that with a 14 point captain and let me know how you do. Also IJN DDs look rather weak, I am very hesitant to try any TRB builds that I played regularly before.

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On 1/29/2019 at 1:09 AM, El2aZeR said:

Basically it will come down to whether or not your CV can kill the enemy team faster than the enemy CV can kill yours.

This hasn't been my experience so far.

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28 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Now try that with a 14 point captain and let me know how you do. Also IJN DDs look rather weak, I am very hesitant to try any TRB builds that I played regularly before.

 

I guess slightly worse. I mean I would still take roughly the same captain skills (PT, LS, SE, CE, SI/BFT)

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1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

This hasn't been my experience so far.

 

It has been mine playing CVs.

Basically situations that were unwinnable previously are still unwinnable with one exception (being if your CV teammate is a potato you pretty much lose by default against two competent CVs). In all others CVs still dominate provided sufficient skill.

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9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

It has been mine playing CVs.

Basically situations that were unwinnable previously are still unwinnable with one exception (being if your CV teammate is a potato you pretty much lose by default against two competent CVs). In all others CVs still dominate provided sufficient skill.

If you reach 85% solo WR again in Enterprise, then I'd agree there's still an issue. So far things look somewhat improved regarding the dominance of cvs.

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41 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

If you reach 85% solo WR again in Enterprise, then I'd agree there's still an issue. So far things look somewhat improved regarding the dominance of cvs.

 

Enterprise 85% solo WR was due to special circumstances, namely:

- barely any skilled CV players played T8 CVs due to the MM of the tier, often getting uptiered to T10

- the few that did usually played GZ which immediately put air superiority in my lap (I lost air superiority EXACTLY ONCE in all my Enterprise games and that was against an enemy Enterprise. Even then we basically deplaned each other)

 

which means that whether the enemy had a chance of winning or not hinged almost entirely on their ability to counterplay me which rarely ever happened. Most of my losses were suffered due to my team being :etc_swear: and that hasn't changed.

 

Now that CVs cannot fight each other anymore their potential influence on the match has waned a bit - but only in so far that they can no longer deny the enemy CV. The expected WR ceiling will thus drop accordingly.

I'd estimate a drop by ~5-10%.

This says nothing about the potential match influence a reworked CV can have tho.

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40 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

So far things look somewhat improved regarding the dominance of cvs

Players are now going full AA build and decimating any planes sent from CV's. Enough are complaining in-game playing CV, saying their planes are getting melted and not effective. That is what's changed, ships are doing full AA build and making CV domination a thing of the past

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Now that CVs cannot fight each other anymore their potential influence on the match has waned a bit - but only in so far that they can no longer deny the enemy CV. The expected WR ceiling will thus drop accordingly.

I'd estimate a drop by ~5-10%.

This says nothing about the potential match influence a reworked CV can have tho.

In theory you mean? If we get a drop of 10-15% of the overall WR for the top cv players (to around 70-75%), I think it is a good enough evidence of a reduced potential match influence. I think WG would find it a decent improvement and around what they were going for too.

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