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DD tactics for 0.8.0, how do we survive?

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I have been watching a lot of CC's tests of the up coming new CV gameplay and one thing that stands out is how big a difference it will make for DD's over the other classes, therefore I thought it prudent to explore the varrious types of gameplay that we might have to adopt in the early stages of the game to counter this change.

Bear in mind that when 8.0 does finally launch most players will want to try it out so there will be a period of time with an over population of CV players all trying to figure out if they like it or not, this will unbalence the game for a while, untill players find their skill level and the volume of CV's settle down. it will be hard to extrapolate the most effective DD gameplay for each class of DD.

However I am interested in what you all think will be the most effective way to play DD's after the new patch, what follows are my own thoughts on the matter.

 

1. CAP RUSH, the current standard meathod used at the start of every game, survival of this tactic relies on not getting spotted, sitting in smoke or hiding behind an island. Going unspotted in the first 2/3 mins of the game will not be possible, the new squads of planes fly over the map very fast so sitting in a cap long enough for capture will just get you killed, sitting in smoke as always will invite torp drops from CV's and DD's a like so still not an option, hiding behide an island used to be valid but now they have rocket planes designed to kill DD's so dead again.

 

2. BUM RUSH THE CV, This is a new tactic that I have seen players talk about and some trying in the game, this is a suicide tactic as you will get spotted too early, giving the CV plenty of time to react and send you to the bottom, plus the red team will mostly be in your way as BB's and crusers would not of moved too far from their spawn point, and even if you did manage to get through and get some torp hits you will still die early and be of no use to your team.

 

3. SPOTTING, NO CAPTURE, basically the technique of getting close to a cap but not entering to spot the enemy DD so your team can assist in killing them opening the way for you to then capure the point uncontested while at the same time spotting other targets for your team to unleash hell on, this is currently a very effective meathod of getting a cap with minimum damage to you. not any more, you will not be the one spotting the DD the planes will and if you are in the cap or not oops spotted again by their planes, focus fire ensues and dead again.

 

4. PLAY LIKE A KHAB, anyone who plays a Khab knows you don't go after the cap, or go near it, your not there to spot or get the cap at the start of the game, just to hold back and spam HE at range while ducking and diving enemy gunfire. So mabey this is the way to go, a dead DD is no good to the team, so do we hold back getting the benifit of other ships AA to stay off CV attacks waiting for the perfect moment to sneek in and get the cap. One thing is fact, the longer you stay alive the greater the chance you will help your team to victory.

 

Like I said at the start I have watched a lot of new CV game play and what stands out is that the DD's are the first to die, if they are out on their own they are just too easy a target. How will we survive the next generation of CV's ? I open the floor to you guy's (and girls).

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I have only played 8k games since closed beta, but DDs always have the tendency to die first. The goal of the rework is that CVs become common and the way to deal with this is to play games and build up experience after they launch the patch.
When you enter a game you boot up your brain and make a decision on the things you see.

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All you said is true and I and I am not being derogatory against the CV rework, just trying to think of ways to survive and be a better player in the new game style.

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Spam 20km torps with Shima or 16km torps with Gearing I guess?

Completely serious suggestion btw. Doing anything but cuddle the relative safety of your AA ships is practically suicide against a skilled rework CV player (and even then he can kill you, it just takes more time and effort to do it). DFAA DDs too die extremely quick on their own unlike the current iteration.

 

On the bright side the vast majority of CV players are likely going to be potatoes as with any other class. Against those you can basically play like you do now as even DD flak bursts will murder squads if they don't bother to dodge.

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As a DD main, I get the feeling I might be joining the rush of CVs upon the release of 0.8.0.

If nothing else, it should give me a better idea of the limitations of the new CVs, and from that I might me able to extrapolate counter-strategies. This is basically what I do when playing the few BBs I own, to prevent myself being outplayed by DDs.

My grind of minsk will be on total hold until I can be certain that the Khabarovsk line won't be completely neutered by forgoing smoke. I'm not totally interested in Gorozovoi line after just completing both IJN lines.

 

Well, if nothing else, playing the new CVs will give me an excuse to play Starfox and Afterburner music in the background.:cat_cool:

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27 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

Well, if nothing else, playing the new CVs will give me an excuse to play Starfox and Afterburner music in the background.:cat_cool:

 

Nah, use something like this instead. Is guaranteed to boost your dodging skill. :Smile_trollface:

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I have not tested it yet but my plan is to play a more or less full AA Grozo. 

 

You get long range accurate guns, def aa and a heal.

 

I have always hated getting killed by CVs so I am just trying to maximize my chances of staying alive. Not sure how well it will work

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Rushing a cap is often not a good idea, first collect int. data before doing someting. CV rework or not, there are still other threats like radar cruisers.

 

In case of a CV rework match - stay around 5-10 kms to the next good aa ships, just for the case, that a CV approaches the dd. A dd still has good concealment against air and a CV can only be at one point. With some int data about the enemy CV, the dd could stay back, or maybe approach a cap.

If a CV approaches the dd, it depends on the situations. In some situation the dd will be able to just dodge the CVs attack. The rockets are pretty hard to dodge and needs some good jukes, but that is not a guarantor. USN attackplanes could be the highest threat, espcially T10 planes, since they're always top tier. So use the smoke especoally for those planes. Torpedoplanes and Divebomber can be dodged, especially the USN planes are pretty susceptible for any small movement, so trying to dodge throws off the aim.

The first squad should be suvived and if the CV really wants the dd, then there is enough time to retreat to an ally.

With the new mechanic a strike always leads to, that the squad will keep flying ~2km into the strike direction even after the strike, so being on ~7 km means, that the CV will fly his planes into the AA of other ships.

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36 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

I have not tested it yet but my plan is to play a more or less full AA Grozo. 

 

You get long range accurate guns, def aa and a heal.

 

I have always hated getting killed by CVs so I am just trying to maximize my chances of staying alive. Not sure how well it will work

I would assume, that it will work well, as long your don't move 20 km away from your mates. But fast ships are also hard to hit

 

4 hours ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

As a DD main, I get the feeling I might be joining the rush of CVs upon the release of 0.8.0.

If nothing else, it should give me a better idea of the limitations of the new CVs, and from that I might me able to extrapolate counter-strategies. This is basically what I do when playing the few BBs I own, to prevent myself being outplayed by DDs.

My grind of minsk will be on total hold until I can be certain that the Khabarovsk line won't be completely neutered by forgoing smoke. I'm not totally interested in Gorozovoi line after just completing both IJN lines.

 

Well, if nothing else, playing the new CVs will give me an excuse to play Starfox and Afterburner music in the background.:cat_cool:

With the rework I will use my fighters for dds mostly. Otherwise.. I will play my Kii, that will be a great week. :cap_haloween:

But that's of course a good idea, know your enemy. It's important to know, how the aiming works. Some people think only that the CV is so fast and can strike and any time from any direction and will hit easily, but it's not always that easy

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1 hour ago, _Teob_ said:

Not sure how well it will work

 

Not particularly well. Even with DFAA DDs can't muster the base DPS to significantly hurt planes that dodge all your flak bursts. At best you'll deny the last attack wing - at which point the enemy CV will just return 30 seconds later with a fresh squad to kill you.

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22 hours ago, Shady_runner said:

I have been watching a lot of CC's tests of the up coming new CV gameplay and one thing that stands out is how big a difference it will make for DD's over the other classes, therefore I thought it prudent to explore the varrious types of gameplay that we might have to adopt in the early stages of the game to counter this change.

Bear in mind that when 8.0 does finally launch most players will want to try it out so there will be a period of time with an over population of CV players all trying to figure out if they like it or not, this will unbalence the game for a while, untill players find their skill level and the volume of CV's settle down. it will be hard to extrapolate the most effective DD gameplay for each class of DD.

However I am interested in what you all think will be the most effective way to play DD's after the new patch, what follows are my own thoughts on the matter.

 

1. CAP RUSH, the current standard meathod used at the start of every game, survival of this tactic relies on not getting spotted, sitting in smoke or hiding behind an island. Going unspotted in the first 2/3 mins of the game will not be possible, the new squads of planes fly over the map very fast so sitting in a cap long enough for capture will just get you killed, sitting in smoke as always will invite torp drops from CV's and DD's a like so still not an option, hiding behide an island used to be valid but now they have rocket planes designed to kill DD's so dead again.

 

2. BUM RUSH THE CV, This is a new tactic that I have seen players talk about and some trying in the game, this is a suicide tactic as you will get spotted too early, giving the CV plenty of time to react and send you to the bottom, plus the red team will mostly be in your way as BB's and crusers would not of moved too far from their spawn point, and even if you did manage to get through and get some torp hits you will still die early and be of no use to your team.

 

3. SPOTTING, NO CAPTURE, basically the technique of getting close to a cap but not entering to spot the enemy DD so your team can assist in killing them opening the way for you to then capure the point uncontested while at the same time spotting other targets for your team to unleash hell on, this is currently a very effective meathod of getting a cap with minimum damage to you. not any more, you will not be the one spotting the DD the planes will and if you are in the cap or not oops spotted again by their planes, focus fire ensues and dead again.

 

4. PLAY LIKE A KHAB, anyone who plays a Khab knows you don't go after the cap, or go near it, your not there to spot or get the cap at the start of the game, just to hold back and spam HE at range while ducking and diving enemy gunfire. So mabey this is the way to go, a dead DD is no good to the team, so do we hold back getting the benifit of other ships AA to stay off CV attacks waiting for the perfect moment to sneek in and get the cap. One thing is fact, the longer you stay alive the greater the chance you will help your team to victory.

 

Like I said at the start I have watched a lot of new CV game play and what stands out is that the DD's are the first to die, if they are out on their own they are just too easy a target. How will we survive the next generation of CV's ? I open the floor to you guy's (and girls).

5. Play Asashio

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27 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

5. Play Asashio

Does this mean that DD play will have to change to a more passive role at the start, holding back like Khab and Asashio, if aggresive play only gets you noticed and focused by the CV then an early death awaites you.

 

However passive play has a downside, your not getting the spotting damage or solo capture, 2 things DD's need to boost their XP, I have played lots of games in which I don't have an impressive damage ( under 40,000 ) but because of spotting and capture I still can end up in the top 3 on the team with decent EX points. Playing passively could have the potential to seriously affect your XP grind.

 

Another thought occures to me that new players who end up being damage foder for the CV in game after game might end up sticking with BB's or crusers just so they have a chance to stay alive long enough to enjoy the game. The long term net results would be a decline in DD player base.

 

Food for thought.

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7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Not particularly well. Even with DFAA DDs can't muster the base DPS to significantly hurt planes that dodge all your flak bursts. At best you'll deny the last attack wing - at which point the enemy CV will just return 30 seconds later with a fresh squad to kill you.

Still better than nothing, right? Like I am not saying it's an actual solution but without DefAA you don't even get those extra 30-60 seconds which might give you enough time to smoke up or get close to a proper AA ship.

Basically the way I used to survive before when a CV really wanted me dead was I would cycle between DefAA and smoke. I would most likely still die but at least it would take much longer. And while they are focusing on me, at least they are not somewhere else killing my team.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

5. Play Asashio

I feel like a very slow DD with no AA would be a primary focus for CVs.

That's on top of Asashio's other shortcomings.

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43 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

 

 

I feel like a very slow DD with no AA would be a primary focus for CVs.

That's on top of Asashio's other shortcomings.

 Torping from 20km, and staying out of CV detection = profit. Teamplay, what teamplay? 

 

I am just being sarcastic :Smile-_tongue: 

 

Personally, I think that WG has lost the plot.... 

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1 hour ago, Shady_runner said:

Does this mean that DD play will have to change to a more passive role at the start, holding back like Khab and Asashio, if aggresive play only gets you noticed and focused by the CV then an early death awaites you.

 

However passive play has a downside, your not getting the spotting damage or solo capture, 2 things DD's need to boost their XP, I have played lots of games in which I don't have an impressive damage ( under 40,000 ) but because of spotting and capture I still can end up in the top 3 on the team with decent EX points. Playing passively could have the potential to seriously affect your XP grind.

 

Another thought occures to me that new players who end up being damage foder for the CV in game after game might end up sticking with BB's or crusers just so they have a chance to stay alive long enough to enjoy the game. The long term net results would be a decline in DD player base.

 

Food for thought.

Definitively a possibility. I am a DD main and I will certainly not play as aggressively as I usually do until it becomes clear what impact will CVs have. In fact, will probably play CVs and cruisers for a while. 

 

I am not interested in being a guinea pig for WG balans department. 

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49 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

 Torping from 20km, and staying out of CV detection = profit. Teamplay, what teamplay? 

 

I am just being sarcastic :Smile-_tongue: 

 

Personally, I think that WG has lost the plot.... 

 

My apologies. I didn't pick up on the sarcasm.

It's one of those "desperate times call for desperate solutions" kind of period so I am struggling to know when people are joking or they are actually proposing strange solutions.

 

In all fairness, I still have faith in WG. Like if it really is as bad as it seems, I am pretty sure they will tweak things quickly.

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6. Only play in div with a Mino + DM/Worchester/2nd Mino ?

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9 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

Still better than nothing, right?

 

Meh, depends on how far away you are from your teammates in relation to how far away you are from the CV. If you can run to your teammates in less than 30 seconds you were likely within AA cover to begin with. Also keep in mind that AA now requires line of sight. If someone is hiding behind an island while you're sailing around in front of it, they won't be able to shoot at any planes that are attacking you.

 

And, well, if said AA cover consists of only a single AA ship the CV may elect to simply kill him instead before killing you.

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being spotter and support from inside the defencive aa fire of friendly cl is going to be a bigger part of play.

a reward for spotting torps that are on course to hit friendly ships to reward this might be in order.

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For me (a destroyer player), 8.0 is "the end" of this game.

I don't even wait for next radar buffs (yes, announced nerf turn into buff, lol).

 

I'm not making a big deal from this - losing 1 player money will not ruin WG day. But I really don't understand what they doing. CV is now far from perfect but at last, playing CV now is semi-strategy game. With rework, we get something like Arkanoid instead.

If this is the "new way" for WoWs then I'm not in.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, karol66 said:

If this is the "new way" for WoWs then I'm not in.

Well, technically that is the way of wargaming games since ever. Arcade pvp games.

 

But just my advice, if you like the game, just come back in 1 or 2 weeks and try it then, when people figured out to play this patch, or if Wargaming had to update the game with a fix (nerf/balance)

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On 1/27/2019 at 11:55 AM, El2aZeR said:

Spam 20km torps with Shima or 16km torps with Gearing I guess?

Completely serious suggestion btw. Doing anything but cuddle the relative safety of your AA ships is practically suicide against a skilled rework CV player (and even then he can kill you, it just takes more time and effort to do it). DFAA DDs too die extremely quick on their own unlike the current iteration.

I thought the idea of this carrier rework, or part of it anyway, was to make it less easy for skilled carrier players to dominate an entire match...? Actually making it easier for them to take out any ship at will, would seem to go somewhat against this aim. Or am I getting it wrong, here?

 

21 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Not particularly well. Even with DFAA DDs can't muster the base DPS to significantly hurt planes that dodge all your flak bursts. At best you'll deny the last attack wing - at which point the enemy CV will just return 30 seconds later with a fresh squad to kill you.

A reworked CV can get his planes home and back again to attack you in thirty (30) seconds? What are they flying on, warp drives...?! :Smile_ohmy:

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25 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

What are they flying on, warp drives...?!

 

Midway RFs with boost fly at about 1 km per second at an ingame speed of 260kn.

That's almost Mach 3 irl.

 

Also reworked CVs don't need to wait for their planes to return. As long as there are reserves available you can launch another squadron as soon as your last one expended all ordinance or you manually recall them.

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34 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Midway RFs with boost fly at about 1 km per second at an ingame speed of 260kn.

That's almost Mach 3 irl.

Wow..! :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Anyway, one of my main problems with the current carrier gameplay is that if there is a skill gap between the carrier players, the team with the less skilled carrier player usually ends up with an almost crippling disadvantage in the match. It doesn't happen every time, but when it does, you really feel it. I am hoping that this at least has been alleviated with the rework? If the new carrier gameplay is more easily accessible to "normal" players, as has been said to be the case, there might be some normalization...?

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