Overextending the Gneisenau

[Saltface]

Dear All,

 

I read this in the Forum:

 

In this post, @Ferry_25 posted:

 

"Over extension is heavily punished. And staying too far back doesn't yield any result as well. The biggest "art" in wows is positioning and knowing when to be aggressive and when not."

 

and in an other discussion:

@LemonadeWarrior stated:

 

"For pushing there are rules that you should not push further than your base concealment and that you should trade damage wisely. Always have your exit ready.
Letting ships come into your base concealment is called overextending. These mistakes are easily recognizable on the minimap."

 

Now, I sail the Gneisenau. She has a range of 19.5 Km and a concealment range of 15.2 Km.

Should I not allow vessels to sail at a distance shorter that 15.2 I am afraid that her main armament will be under-productive. (only six barrels and a dispersion of a landing strip). Adding to this her secondaries will be useless.

Obviously a "brawler" doesn't "brawl" at distances over 15 Km.

 

So I guess I am missing some vital info in order to start thinking more seriously about positioning and proper push timing.

If one checks my stats, one will realize that I have a "BAD" survival record and "BAD" WR in Gneisenau.

I have managed to put my Scharnhorst after 200+ battles in the 50% and my Hipper and Yorck to 49% with close to 200 battles each. And all of a sudden I find myself down to 38% and a feeling that I am doing something terribly wrong. It can't be MM or my teammates.. Compared to the stats on line all my stats are miserably low except exp. and planes downed. 

 

In conclusion I am almost convinced that I am playing this ship in a wrong way. And what I identify as wrong is positioning and timing of the push. When all went right I pulled my best ever of 130K damage but that is once ! Once is not significant.

 

So dear Friends, any pointers, tips and advise?

 

Regards,

Saltface

 

P.S. I always play with max size mini map and I manage to land one out of four shells on target (despite the most rebellious nature of the Gneisenau shells that decide to go all over the place except where you are aiming"

 

[colonel_duce]

you overextend when you are few miles ahead of rest of the team, when you are alone against more ships. Gneise is a good and funny ship, you should push in later phases of the game, if you push in the beginning, you will be sinked. You have only 6 guns, but when i played Gneise against Lyon (with 16 guns), most of the cases i sinked lyon, do not show broadside and he cant do a lot. It`s always better if you are in pack with other teammates so you will share the pain.

[gopher31]

I think that’s it. Also use terrain to get closer my GK has a 15.9km concealment but I can get those secondary guns working as long as there is some cover.

dont go I alone unless you know where the enemy fleet is. It’s so easy for enemy DDs to spot you while light cruisers shoot at. You from behind islands.

As mentioned above, it’s a mid-late game move  to push and it is very fun!

[LemonadeWarrior]

Okay, this is why I don't recommend the German BB line to generally new players. German BBs have some really decent armour, but require some really tactical play to make the brawling work. The French BB line is easier and more fun to play. 

So I said: 

"For pushing there are rules that you should not push further than your base concealment and that you should trade damage wisely. Always have your exit ready.
Letting ships come into your base concealment is called overextending. These mistakes are easily recognizable on the minimap".

Having ships in your base concealment means that you get perma/hard spotted, unless there is an island in between. When you are being hard spotted it is a matter of time before the enemy team will focus its fire on you. At this point it is a matter of seconds before you are at the bottom of the ocean. 

Brawling / pushing is the exception, but can be done easily wrong. For a German battleship in general the best way to go is to follow the main force. When your main force meets a small force you need to push / brawl for the cap, right? Usually your team follows you on the EU server. However, during this process you can still take a lot of damage when they focus fire you and this is the tricky part. To avoid being focus fired you need to make use of the islands to minimize the people shooting at you or to take a break. 
In some occasions you are spawned with a group of 3 on the other side of the map. Gneisenau has got some speed so you can make the decision to sit in a kiting position and help your DD out a bit, or you already move towards your main force (lemming train?) to regroup and push together. Keep in mind that when you go for the lemming train option that you need to take over the push as soon as you reach your main force.

It is kinda difficult to explain this by words, because if I worded this poorly you can be next to useless as well. Basically when you don't have a cap advantage and you can't hit an enemy for a minute you are doing something wrong. Can you give me 2 or 3 replays from your Gneisenau games?

The other player was a different case, because his other statistics were fairly up to standards, but could increase his/her potential by staying alive more often.

 

[veso_vn]

I play Gneisenau to support the DD. Just follow one DD close to cap try to use some island for cover so not all enemy can shoot you . Focus enemy DD`s 1st then all targets that are broadside to you . Gneisenau armor is good so try to show little broadside and baited the enemy to shoot you at the hull you will have a lot of bounces or shattering shells 

[Tyrendian89]

1 hour ago, Saltface said:

LemonadeWarrior stated:

 

"For pushing there are rules that you should not push further than your base concealment and that you should trade damage wisely. Always have your exit ready.
Letting ships come into your base concealment is called overextending. These mistakes are easily recognizable on the minimap."

 

Now, I sail the Gneisenau. She has a range of 19.5 Km and a concealment range of 15.2 Km.

that's already one issue here - you don't have Concealment Expert on the Captain, while Lemonade (probably, correct me if I'm wrong) sort of assumed that skill on every ship and captain.

Now, that doesn't mean you should immediately go and respec your captain to have CE at any cost - but at least imagine your concealment was 13.1km and consider how you would feel about Lemonade's advice if that were the case. Would seem quite a bit more reasonable I bet, particularly as your "preferred" engagement distance with german guns

 

Again, don't take this as "Concealment Expert on every ship always first all the time" - there are ships where it's not needed, and to be frank for newer players that dont have as much experience at judging ranges and maneuvers it might not even be all that useful on a BB. But, depending on what kind of captain you currently have on the Gneisenau, once 0.8.0 hits on Thursday you might want to at least consider using the free captain resets to try out how you like a build with Concealment Expert thrown in somewhere, and maybe play your Gneisenau as more of a fast, opportunistic mid range (that magic 13km mark!) harrasser than a full-out balls to the wall charging brawler.

[invicta2012]

I loathed Gneisenau. I recent got a Scharnhorst out of a supercontainer and despite its smaller calibre main guns ( which makes fighting BBs a process you have to give some careful consideration) it's just much more comfortable to play.

 

I think the main issue with Gneisenau is that her main guns are just too random, and with speed, good secondaries and torpedoes, there is a temptation to close the range and get into a brawl.... which usually results in getting melted being melted by light cruisers. Scharnhorst can stay at range, engage / disengage as needed, and blitzes any cruiser daft enough to take her on. Better rudder shift, too, so you can bait higher Tier BBs as you would do in a cruiser, set fires and wear them down. 

[Saltface]

Dear @LemonadeWarrior,

 

Thank you for time and effort to explain.

 

1 hour ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Usually your team follows you on the EU server.

Alas, this is what I would expect. As a matter of fact, even when we have superior numbers the speed by which they turn back and flee is only comparable to speed of light.

I try never to leave a DD or Cruiser team mate without cover. I try to be the one taking the damage (I am the BB - lol big brother lol) so they can do their part of the job. I do not expect a DD to go and sink trying to cap or a cruiser to go first and tank the damage. However, I would expect the DD to mess up the reds with torpedoes obliging them to take their attention of what they are planning, scout, send some torpedoes on the red that I engage and the Cruisers to "pacify" enemy DDs and set fires on BBs. Team work. Result, I sink. Period. I do a good 40 to 50K of damage and I sink. Rest have turned their backs and rush away.

 

Lemming trains? Oh my. If it was methodical, it would work. In reality the biggest force of the team concentrates on a location of the map with no influence on the battle (usually east or west), while the red team takes two caps, sinks any isolated ship and slowly work their way to victory.

 

Last few games (and believe me I enjoyed victory) I stayed back. Let everybody else take the damage and then I moved in and took the kills and played a nice long battle till the end.

 

I started hiding behind team mates, do my shooting with peace, when RNGesus gives me his blessings I score nice long range citadels and if I find a target of opportunity I brawl. I control click it, my secondaries deal lots of damage, I torp and send some good salvos and voila !! I have fun at least. But, I pay the cost of damage and I don't enjoy nice teamplay.

 

Anyway, it is not the way to play a team game. It should be about teamwork.

 

BTW, what you typed makes real sense. Despite what you might think you have very clearly explained. I will try and see how I can implement.

 

Thanking you indeed

 

Saltface

 

[Saltface]

18 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

that's already one issue here - you don't have Concealment Expert on the Captain, while Lemonade (probably, correct me if I'm wrong) sort of assumed that skill on every ship and captain.

Now, that doesn't mean you should immediately go and respec your captain to have CE at any cost - but at least imagine your concealment was 13.1km and consider how you would feel about Lemonade's advice if that were the case. Would seem quite a bit more reasonable I bet, particularly as your "preferred" engagement distance with german guns

 

Again, don't take this as "Concealment Expert on every ship always first all the time" - there are ships where it's not needed, and to be frank for newer players that dont have as much experience at judging ranges and maneuvers it might not even be all that useful on a BB. But, depending on what kind of captain you currently have on the Gneisenau, once 0.8.0 hits on Thursday you might want to at least consider using the free captain resets to try out how you like a build with Concealment Expert thrown in somewhere, and maybe play your Gneisenau as more of a fast, opportunistic mid range (that magic 13km mark!) harrasser than a full-out balls to the wall charging brawler.

Dear @Tyrendian89,

 

your observation is correct.

My current setup is

 

 

It is a setup making for hugging, kissing and loving your opponent.

And it works. It has send to Neptune's audience some T8 and T9 ships.

 

I guess my major problem is the early stage of the battle.

I try to be useful but I fail.

 

And with German guns, uhmmm...I feel quite frustrated. When they work, oh my, I pop a champagne cork. 

 

Once, a Graf Spee went down with 7 shells. One salvo over 25K and one shell from the previous salvo. I have kept the battle and a screenshot. I was ready to shout "I believe" (to RNGesus LOL)

 

But, I am more interested in intelligent play and setting up a nice sequence for the battles. Taking advantage of the ship's characteristics. 

 

All posts on the forum classify Gneisenau as a beast. I have made a mouse out of it. LOL

I find that rather disheartening, especially when her cousin the Scharnhorst and I did very well.

 

Thanking you again, I will study your advise and see what happens with the free respec.

 

Regards

Saltface

[LemonadeWarrior]

12 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Dear @LemonadeWarrior,

 

Thank you for time and effort to explain.

 

Alas, this is what I would expect. As a matter of fact, even when we have superior numbers the speed by which they turn back and flee is only comparable to speed of light.

I try never to leave a DD of Cruiser team mate without cover. I try to be the one taking the damage (I am the BB - lol big brother lol) so they can do their part of the job. I do not expect a DD to go and sink trying to cap or a cruiser to go first and tank the damage. However, I would expect the DD to mess up the reds with torpedoes obliging them to take their attention of what they are planning, scout, send some torpedoes on the red that I engage and the Cruisers to "pacify" enemy DDs and set fires on BBs. Team work. Result, I sink. Period. I do a good 40 to 50K of damage and I sink. Rest have turned their backs and rush away.

 

Lemming trains? Oh my. If it was methodical, it would work. In reality the biggest force of the team concentrates on a location of the map with no influence on the battle (usually east or west), while the red team takes two caps, sinks any isolated ship and slowly work their way to victory.

 

Last few games (and believe me I enjoyed victory) I stayed back. Let everybody else take the damage and then I moved in and took the kills and played a nice long battle till the end.

 

I started hiding behind team mates, do my shooting with peace, when RNGesus gives me his blessings I score nice long range citadels and if I find a target of opportunity I brawl. I control click it, my secondaries deal lots of damage, I torp and send some good salvos and voila !! I have fun at least. But, I pay the cost of damage and I don't enjoy nice teamplay.

 

Anyway, it is not the way to play a team game. It should be about teamwork.

 

BTW, what you typed makes real sense. Despite what you might think you have very clearly explained. I will try and see how I can implement.

 

Thanking you indeed

 

Saltface

 

The easiest way is to give us some replays, so that we can give you some pointers. 

The job of a battleship is to push/defend for the caps you need. During the process you can alternate taking damage with your friendly BB. Your job is not to tank damage for cruisers or DDs, just let them die. 

There is nothing wrong with a lemming train, except on Standard Mode. You know what is stupid? Going to a cap alone in a BB with terrible concealment where you will die as first blood with only 30k damage...

Keep in mind that the goal of this game is to win by points or by killing all enemies. Since the map is pretty big the easiest way to secure a win is by controlling most of the objectives. 

@Tyrendian89I phrased it a bit poorly. I meant don't push past your base concealment, unless you can find cover. My FDG is without CE and Monty without the CE upgrade :) Thanks for helping me out.

[Tyrendian89]

yeah I imagined you were running secondary spec - nothing wrong with that, but still probably worth trying out whether a Concealment+survivability build suits you better, something along the lines of http://bit.ly/2MActZl (Basics of Survivability can be exchanged for Superintendent if you like). Or, depending on how the balance shakes out with 0.8.0, you might want to/have to take AFT or Manual AA - Gneisenau currently is a fearsome AA platform for its tier with the latter, no idea what that's gonna look like come the CV rework, but worth keeping in mind since there are going to be a LOOOOOT of planes around (which incidentally probably also promotes a more "standard" skirmishing style for the Gneisenau where you dont make yourself the instant prime target by charging in...)

[Saltface]

3 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

The job of a battleship is to push/defend for the caps you need. During the process you can alternate taking damage with your friendly BB. Your job is not to tank damage for cruisers or DDs, just let them die. 

There is nothing wrong with a lemming train, except on Standard Mode. You know what is stupid? Going to a cap alone in a BB with terrible concealment where you will die as first blood with only 30k damage...

 

Dear @LemonadeWarrior,

 

You managed to make yourself clear,  I managed to mess it up.

4 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

The job of a battleship is to push/defend for the caps you need.

100% agreed, I did the math, every cap you hold for 3 minutes is equivalent to sinking a red BB. It is prime objective.

 

5 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

with your friendly BB

With friends like that you don't need enemies. Once they see that I am wiling to push they stay back. I engage, they don't shoot, they come after I sink and make a kill on a depleted enemy.

 

7 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

just let them die.

If they die we go down in points and we don't have DDs and Cruisers to support. However, I understand that it is not worth sinking your own vessel if the DD and Cruiser with you don't play well.

 

8 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

There is nothing wrong with a lemming train,

I agree. Math shows that it is always better not to split your forces. Provided that it works as intended. A concentration of power and not a cluster + a four letter word. I have seen concentrated vessels work miracles by presenting a unified force that takes out one by one red vessels. In my humble opinion (and small experience as I have seen under 2K battles) most of the times it is a "safety in numbers" tactic like a sardine school. The shark will eat the one next to me.

 

I conclude that I have to study my positioning and my timing. "Overextending" is a word that resonates in my head as if it clearly reflects my errors.

 

Dear @Tyrendian89,

Maybe I will "convert" to a AA support vessel playing close to a BB that has firepower and low AA capabilities. Or I go full fledged "survivability" and try to keep the idea of "close encounters" out of my little brain. But habit is second nature. LOL

 

Thanking you both gentlemen for the advise. I shall try and think a bit and digest your comments.

 

Regards,

Saltface.

[Saltface]

@LemonadeWarrior

 

You will realise that I love posting battles and receiving constructive criticism.

Trying to figure out alone your errors is a rather long process. Let impartial friends do it, works better.

You avoid all the bias of your own brains and let someone with more experience tell you. For me it works.

 

I post this one because I dont think I played well, and,  if the two cruisers at the end would aim better I d be sinking a lot faster. So I did  something wrong there. Most probably they were noobier than me.

I knew that these three were there. I knew they had a bad aim because they had tried to shoot me earlier. With bad results.

 

The Friedrich was low on HP, same as the cruisers.

Their CV saved the last one.

Maybe I should not try to intercept the Friedrich from north of the island but to follow her from south and have all three in front of me.

 

Also, during the opening stage of the battle I feel I messed up a bit.

 

I don't know. I ll have a look at the replay later.

 

Regards and looking forward to your comments

 

20190127_155934_PGSB107-Gneisenau_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay

 

 

 

[LemonadeWarrior]

Okay @Saltface, things I noticed:
 

• 18 minute mark you shoot against an island, despite the symbol.
• 16 minute mark a Marblehead pops up, but you ignore it and also shoot at nothing else in the mean time.
• 14 minute mark you make the right call to go cap B.
• 12 minute mark you leave your team alone by pulling back to go around the island. This takes so much time that your team dies.
• 11 minute mark ignoring the Marblehead again.
• 10 minute mark you are in a crossfire between a BB and 2 cruisers.
• 09:30 minute mark you aim correctly, but your dispersion makes you miss your first shot. You alter your aim a bit upwards, why? The aim was good and by moving it upwards you make it less good.
• 07:44 you do a citadel hit on the Marblehead. Do you know why?

Some additional things I noticed: 

• You are always zoomed in when you are locked on a target. Try using your right mouse button to look around between shots. 
• Use F3 to call out targets or caps. When you see a DD, or something else important, just press F3. Most players are stuck in a tunnelvision, so F3 will help. 
• Click on planes. Hold ctrl and click on the group you want to kill the fastest. By clicking you get a 30% DPS bonus on your AA and they will focus the clicked squadron.
• In case of secondaries they will automatically attack the closest target, unless you select a different one yourself.
• You died in a strange way. Did you give up?

 

 

I have uploaded a game of my own. Certain mistakes are made; shouldn't have pushed into B..., but you get the idea of how I play and look around. You see at the start that I help capping the cap, but after that withdraw to avoid being kited down ;)

20190126_102208_PGSB109-Friedrich-der-Grosse_45_Zigzag.wowsreplay

[ForlornSailor]

I´d like to bring another perspective in.

IMO, the Gneisenau is in a pretty rough spot in the current Meta. Even in the Tiers, that Gneisenau faces, people are pretty careful these days. That goes for the greens aswell as the reds. For that reason, I dont like to bring the Gneisenau to random battles. It thrives in close combat and high speed battles. When it can make use of secondaries, torpedos and the low number of mainguns + bad dispersion doesnt matter that much. Thats why I´d tend to play the Gneisenau careful in the start. Dont overextend, wait till you have all the informations, how the enemys move, where the DDs are and so on. On certain maps, like two brothers, the Gneisenau is well able to start an early push, if you have a situation, were huge part of the enemys lemming to the other side. You shouldnt hesitate to push and win the weak flank then. The Speed of Gneisenau allows for a fast respositioning anyway. To stay with two brothers: after such a push, you have all options, depening what the enemys do. Continue to turn clockwise (if some enemys turned or stayed behind) or turn around (if your team stayed back and is about to be steamrolled). Those are imo the real strenghts of the Gneisenau. Speed and the capability to win positions in a push.

 

Ill have a look at the replay later, when I got some time.

[Tyrendian89]

26 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Regards and looking forward to your comments

 

20190127_155934_PGSB107-Gneisenau_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay

 

 

 

yikes... okay, here goes... I'll just be straightforward with my comments, not intended as a put-down of you but I believe in being blunt at times, and you seem to very much have the right attitude to take them the way they are intended

 

First off... oh boy, your middle name wouldn't be Tunnelvision by any chance? That was probably the biggest thing here: You stay zoomed in WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much. There's zero point in doing that between salvoes most of the time. Zoom out, look around you, look at your minimap, look for which ships are likely to be good targets for your next salvo. There were about half a dozen situations in that battle alone where you had decent-to-great broadside shots on oblivious cruisers, but instead you were either looking at a mountain in sniper view, or at the butt of a retreating BB, or seemingly just staring off into the middle distance... That also plays into overall target selection - as a cruiser it often makes sense to focus one target for a while, but as a BB you should be a lot more opportunistic and take (and nuke) each broadside target as it is given to you. Aim could use a little bit of work but it wasn't horrible, and that'll naturally improve over time.

 

Next, general positioning. Why'd you decide to abandon your flank and run full speed towards your other two BBs? Blobbing up BBs is pretty much the single best way to ensure they're as useless as possible because that way the enemy has a really easy time angling to all of them... Particularly as a Gneisenau, you'd love to be able to isolate and charge one or two enemies at a time - not gonna happen if you just hide in the main fleet blob. And then, by abandoning the northeastern flank (instead of, you know, blowing up the juicy triple Shchors there...), you also made sure your team had zero map control.

 

Towards the end... well, by that point the game was already very much lost, so you might as well charge in and get a little more out of it - but notice how you pretty much hadn't done jack squat until that point? No idea why you decided to first hightail it south out of B instead of already meeting the enemy head on... Your torps on the Friedrich were about as bad as they could be (wide spread, at a retreating, maneuvering enemy... chances of a hit with those were close to nil, better to keep them ready in case you need them a minute later against a more promising target). Also again target selection and general awareness - the Friedrich doesnt do anything to your bow while you hunt him down with secondaries and superior speed, might as well turn your guns on the super squishy Marblehead and Nukeberg and blow those up... Oh, and being zoomed in on a beached Nürnberg while the CV casually swoops in his Torp Bombers and kills you easily becaue you didnt even react in the slightest didnt exactly help either...

 

Overall, were you the reason why your team lost that match? No, certainly not alone. But you did not do nearly enough for the lovely matchmaking you got there, as the sole top tier BB and on a map with a lot of cover and corners to charge people with.

[Saltface]

14 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

I'll just be straightforward with my comments, not intended as a put-down of you but I believe in being blunt at times,

Very well done. I hate pampering. And my feelings aren't easy to hurt.

14 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

First off... oh boy

I know, I know

You should have seen me earlier. I am making progress. LOL. Slow but I am. You don't want to hurt your eyes with some of my earlier battles.

I have developed a stray eye (lol one on the world one on the mini map)

14 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

Next, general positioning. Why'd you decide to abandon your flank

When I saw the replay I banged my head on desk. Absolutely right you are. (ok this sounded like Yoda)

14 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

Towards the end... well, by that point the game was already very much lost, so you might as well charge in and get a little more out of it - but notice how you pretty much hadn't done jack squat until that point? No idea why you decided to first hightail it south out of B instead of already meeting the enemy head on... Your torps on the Friedrich were about as bad as they could be (wide spread, at a retreating, maneuvering enemy... chances of a hit with those were close to nil, better to keep them ready in case you need them a minute later against a more promising target). Also again target selection and general awareness - the Friedrich doesnt do anything to your bow while you hunt him down with secondaries and superior speed, might as well turn your guns on the super squishy Marblehead and Nukeberg and blow those up... Oh, and being zoomed in on a beached Nürnberg while the CV casually swoops in his Torp Bombers and kills you easily becaue you didnt even react in the slightest didnt exactly help either...

Yes, Yes and Yes again.

14 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

Overall, were you the reason why your team lost that match?

I think if I did not change flank I could have offered more.

 

Thank you for all the time you lost watching the replay and typing and for your criticism. 

 

Regards,

Saltface

[Saltface]

@LemonadeWarrior

 

Thank you for pinpointing out several mistakes.

Seems that there are some basics that I still lack.

 

From the first set of bullets I will review my replay and try to answer the questions.

 

The other points:

Being zoomed in. I know I m trying but I get absorbed in the one target and lose the rest. I am trying to make a habit of shooting and un-zooming immediately. 

I try to use more the mini map which I have max size but that is not a solution.

F3 point taken !!

Usually I click on planes and try to go towards the torp planes.

Since I have a full secondary build I was under the impression that you can concentrate all your secondary armament on one target. I control click usually DDs and shoot at other targets.

I gave up. I was very low on HP and 3 squadrons wouldn't be a success so I concentrated on the Nurn. 

 

I will watch your battle closely. Hope I learn something.

 

Thank you very much for time and effort spent.

I hope it was not in vain.

 

Regards

Saltface

 

[Saltface]

@ForlornSailor, thank you for the advise.

 

I think I need to concentrate on the basics again.

Strategy is important but after I master the basics.

 

Thank you for the feedback and the advise.

 

Saltface

[Tyrendian89]

42 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I know, I know

You should have seen me earlier. I am making progress. LOL. Slow but I am. You don't want to hurt your eyes with some of my earlier battles.

don't worry, I've seen much worse (also posted on the forums for feedback, incidentally)

And yes, I have no problem believing you that you are making progress - you've certainly got the right attitude, keep that up and you'll also keep improving

[Saltface]

Ok, just for laughs,

 

I tried to concentrate in healing my tunnel vision and I was so preoccupied with zoom in and zoom out that I ended on the beach.

 

But until then !! I was a glorious spectacle LOL

Zoom In Zoom Out

 

LOL

 

Thank you all for the feedback

 

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Ok, just for laughs,

 

I tried to concentrate in healing my tunnel vision and I was so preoccupied with zoom in and zoom out that I ended on the beach.

 

But until then !! I was a glorious spectacle LOL

Zoom In Zoom Out

 

LOL

 

Thank you all for the feedback

 

 

You should see me zooming in and out between Minotaur shots... (3,6 sec reload), sometmes i get nauseous myself

I kinda have to force myself to NOT do it when playing fast firing ships, at some point, it is so automated that you will do it after every shot that you cant really control it.

[Saltface]

@DFens_666,

 

Encouraging, I hope it works.

Until then I m seriously considering down-tiering myself.

 

EDIT

Zoom in Zoom out kinda worked but I think once more I messed up

20190127_185657_PGSB107-Gneisenau_42_Neighbors.wowsreplay

[Praevasc]

I usually manage to win 2 out of 3 battles with the Gneisenau these days (my winrate is barely above 50% because I sucked hard at the beginning deep below 40%, and also had a very long unlucky streak)

 

What I usually do is play peek-a-boo at the beginning, harassing and disorienting the enemy: charging in, shooting a salvo, then turning back and using my superior speed to get quickly away. Usually a large part of the enemy has tunnel vision and still tries to shoot my when I'm already very far, hard to hit, and my teammates are already closer to them. If my team is halfway decent, they can use it to deal massive damage with little risk to themselves, gaining an advantage for the team.

 

I almost always sail at full speed, and if the game is slow and the fronts are unmoving, even then I don't stop, instead I zig-zag in and out of range. Basically, playing almost like a cruiser.

 

While this is happening, I try to find

- the moment when almost all ships are already engaged with each other (so that it's unlikely they will ALL switch targets to focus on me if I get closer)

- a position in which direction the majority of the enemy is not aiming.

 

Before these conditions are met I just run in and out, circle around, etc.

When these conditions are met, I charge in.

 

Despite the guns looking quite weak, they can still citadel ships of higher tier from a close enough range, while I'm practically immune to citadel hits.

 

It's a lot of fun to pick a tier 8 or 9 BB which has all the guns pointed in the opposite direction, and rushing her. By the time the guns are turned against me, I'm already at a range when I can citadel or even torpedo her.

 

Most of the time I don't even have to use my torpedoes. If I have to, it means it was a close call.

 

If the above conditions never materialize in a battle, then I'm at a disadvantage. If I can lure some enemy ships away from the action, then I do so (I had some fun battles where I turned the tide from a loss to a win, by making 4 or 5 enemies chase me away from the action, I barely did any damage, but got a gazillion of potential damage - the time I died, my team held all the caps and killed all the - now outnumbered - enemies in their vicinity), otherwise I'm out of luck, and can contribute little to the battle.

 

[Negativvv]

Pretty much all BBs need CE unless you want to island hug like a squishy Cruiser. The long range focus fire is too much as every enemy potato shoots at the first thing they see which is you without CE...

 

There is usually a point in the game where a BB should push but getting it wrong usually ends up in death as it's a choice between turning so you show broadside or angling and reversing which also invites focus fire.

 

Gnesi has T8 guns even if they are derpy and few in number...