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Butterdoll

a simple question about uneven cvs.

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" What will happen to the carriers from uneven tiers?

The main reason behind the temporary removal of uneven tiers is that they are too similar to their adjacent tiers and offer little difference in terms of gameplay.

Once the gameplay update is in effect and after some time has passed, we plan to release alternative branches of aircraft carriers. This will mean bringing back all, or almost all of the carriers removed due to the ship type being reworked.

We also intend to make different gameplay for the alternative branches focusing on other ways to impact a battle, considering unique approaches to victory and interaction with both allies and enemies. The word "different" can imply an array of diverse options. Alternative ships could concentrate more on helping their allies rather than dealing damage, for example, they might provide better spotting. It's possible that some aircraft types from alternative branches will be able to set small smoke screens, thus enabling them to save an allied cruiser from heavy shelling. Maybe they will even have the ability to help an allied battleship fight any fires that might be on board. Or perhaps even, some aircraft will gain the ability to land on water and capture control points, although they will be very easy to destroy. The options are numerous and we have listed only a small portion of them, but please do understand that these are auxiliary possibilities, that would be designed to accompany inflicting damage, as opposed to replacing it.

It’s very likely that alternative aircraft carriers will be more difficult to play on than ships with strike squadrons. But in several months they could certainly become an excellent choice for those who have mastered the reworked gameplay by then and want to try new options."

 

You were absolutely right @El2aZeR.

 

I was kinda hoping that uneven tier cvs will have fighter planes, not crop dusters  or Canadairs .

 

Let me put thing this way this way.

 

 

If you ask me, WG is overcomplicating things, you could do strike cvs and air supremacy cvs. (odd tiers). a squadron or two could be the same as a ship could be a small one damage wise.

 

this and this and this

 

canadair.jpg.fad18179ce13094eea0e0fa906049f7d.jpgcd.png.adebef935e6049f3700f5a8c43e7b6b6.pngdromedair.png.9e046ed13dd83ca8619e5189a4996272.png

 

are not what I'm looking for. They are just lame

 

your DBs and TBs are ...

 

1109728539_Workhorse.jpg.bcb5518a577a1fd38b9264db859b13ed.jpg

 

they do the job but they don't end up featuring on the poster

 

and I would like  this.

 

cavaleiro..jpg.fe6e0c8fc98d87c05b835ce7e7d3a879.jpg

 

 

So, what about?...

 

corsair.jpg.c7de83bc3f19f3540dfe6a843f1a5de3.jpg

 

 

Please @Crysantos  @Sub_Octavian @MrConway if WG need help just call this guy.

 

mb.jpg.d11958de7601e966fe6779c596cf1d3c.jpg

 

he will help.

 

 

 

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My best hope WG will multiply the amount of cv's after 8.0 very soon. With 0....

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57 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

My best hope WG will multiply the amount of cv's after 8.0 very soon. With 0....

 

It will be like a movie without lead actors, just supporting roles and extras.

Just imagine a movie about Stalin without Stalin.

they are not multiplying, they are subtracting  

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3 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

It will be like a movie without lead actors, just supporting roles and extras.

Just imagine a movie about Stalin without Stalin.

they are not multiplying, they are subtracting  

Not entirely. Wows without CV's will be like Star Wars without Rian Johnson and EA....

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On 1/26/2019 at 11:01 PM, Butterdoll said:

" What will happen to the carriers from uneven tiers?

The main reason behind the temporary removal of uneven tiers is that they are too similar to their adjacent tiers and offer little difference in terms of gameplay.

Once the gameplay update is in effect and after some time has passed, we plan to release alternative branches of aircraft carriers. This will mean bringing back all, or almost all of the carriers removed due to the ship type being reworked.

We also intend to make different gameplay for the alternative branches focusing on other ways to impact a battle, considering unique approaches to victory and interaction with both allies and enemies. The word "different" can imply an array of diverse options. Alternative ships could concentrate more on helping their allies rather than dealing damage, for example, they might provide better spotting. It's possible that some aircraft types from alternative branches will be able to set small smoke screens, thus enabling them to save an allied cruiser from heavy shelling. Maybe they will even have the ability to help an allied battleship fight any fires that might be on board. Or perhaps even, some aircraft will gain the ability to land on water and capture control points, although they will be very easy to destroy. The options are numerous and we have listed only a small portion of them, but please do understand that these are auxiliary possibilities, that would be designed to accompany inflicting damage, as opposed to replacing it.

It’s very likely that alternative aircraft carriers will be more difficult to play on than ships with strike squadrons. But in several months they could certainly become an excellent choice for those who have mastered the reworked gameplay by then and want to try new options."

  

 You were absolutely right @El2aZeR.

 

I was kinda hoping that uneven tier cvs will have fighter planes, not crop dusters  or Canadairs .

 

Let me put thing this way this way.

 

 

If you ask me, WG is overcomplicating things, you could do strike cvs and air supremacy cvs. (odd tiers). a squadron or two could be the same as a ship could be a small one damage wise.

 

It's too early to really talk about what the alternate branches could look like, but we really don't want to do an air supremacy focused CV as that will just bring us back to the situation we have now, where one CV can be entirely negated in the game.

 

Let's wait and see! :)

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Weel, though I do not play CV's much, I for one am kinda sad losing Hiryu.:Smile_amazed::Smile_sad: I only bothered grinding up the IJN CV line to get her so I could rid myself of Ruyjo and have something that looks more like an actual Carrier. No offence intended, Ruyjo is a good ship too, but she lack the looks - Hiryu is just sooo much sexier, eh? :Smile_Default::Smile_smile:

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On 1/26/2019 at 10:01 PM, Butterdoll said:

" What will happen to the carriers from uneven tier.

 

They will never, never and never have players control fighters again, ever.

 

This is Skill gap and one of the many reasons why they have changed it to this new system.

 

If they do then they will have completely gone against their own comments and look like idiots. Now I know that they have done things like this in the past, but I actually believe this is one thing they can't go back on. 

 

Giving players fighters will increase the skill gap.  That can't happen as they need to keep it as low as possible (like the new re-work).  That's not negative, it's fact.

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5 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

They will never, never and never have players control fighters again, ever.

 

This is Skill gap and one of the many reasons why they have changed it to this new system.

 

If they do then they will have completely gone against their own comments and look like idiots. Now I know that they have done things like this in the past, but I actually believe this is one thing they can't go back on. 

 

Giving players fighters will increase the skill gap.  That can't happen as they need to keep it as low as possible (like the new re-work).  That's not negative, it's fact.

Yeeah, kinda have to agree with all that and anyway even IF fighters will be re-introduced at some point, it will probably just be some sort of simplified point-and-click system (not able to spot). Strafing will never come back, I'm sure and I'm fine with that too.:cap_old:

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12 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

They will never, never and never have players control fighters again, ever.

 

This is Skill gap and one of the many reasons why they have changed it to this new system.

 

If they do then they will have completely gone against their own comments and look like idiots. Now I know that they have done things like this in the past, but I actually believe this is one thing they can't go back on. 

 

Giving players fighters will increase the skill gap.  That can't happen as they need to keep it as low as possible (like the new re-work).  That's not negative, it's fact.

:o some player being better than other players in an online game. What blasphemy is this. 

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I'm reading that text over and over again and I still don't understand what will happen to my Hiryu, Saipan or Essex ? Will they be removed from the game forever (i.e. that considering a new branch somewhere next decade) ? Will I get some compensation? If I research the Midway will I still be able to buy her after the update ?

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On 1/26/2019 at 11:01 PM, Butterdoll said:

(...)

this and this and this

 

canadair.jpg.fad18179ce13094eea0e0fa906049f7d.jpgcd.png.adebef935e6049f3700f5a8c43e7b6b6.pngdromedair.png.9e046ed13dd83ca8619e5189a4996272.png

 

are not what I'm looking for. They are just lame(...)

 

Sure. But this, this and this look ok to me.

main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_it

b02bf999a168a78178ec6217f1e56e48.jpgLangley+Smoke+Screen.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr_Snoww said:

:o some player being better than other players in an online game. What blasphemy is this. 

The problem lies elsewhere. Right now there are tremendous skill gaps in the game. In fact, I'd be willing to say that there's a similar difference between a unicum DD player and a potato DD player. But there's a big difference between the way DDs interact with each other and between what CVs do.

 

An air-superiority CV, when significantly better, gains (surprise surprise) complete air superiority. The enemy CV is still in the game (and likely to stay for the whole duration) but can't do sh*t. You get a frustrated CV player and the team that basically player without a CV in a meta where CVs are the main counters to CVs. This gives the dominating CV a tremendous impact, both through damage-dealing and spotting, effectively shutting down (or even sinking) the second most impactful class among the enemy team. That's where the ridiculous WR% of good CV players come from.

 

Now, as a DD facing a much more skilled DD is not nearly as disastrous. He will be more successful in dealing damage and he will provide his team with precious intelligence data but it's much more manageable. What's more, you usually have a couple DDs per side. And on top of all that - if you find yourself effectively hunted down by an enemy gunboat... you just die. You don't sit in the game for 15 minutes unable to do anything - you're dead and off to the next match. And even if it was a 1v1 DD match, there are Radar ships and other chances to counter that pesky DD - so the teammates you've just orphaned are usually less screwed than they would've been if you were a sunk/shut down CV instead.

 

To put it simply: the skill gap between CVs is more problematic than when it happens to any other class. The problem isn't that someone is much better than the opponent and comes clearly on top from their 1v1 engagement - the problem is what it does to the rest of the match and the experience of everyone involved when it happens.

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2 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

It's too early to really talk about what the alternate branches could look like, but we really don't want to do an air supremacy focused CV as that will just bring us back to the situation we have now, where one CV can be entirely negated in the game.

 

Let's wait and see! :)

 

Even with unlimited planes through out the game?

My impression so far, WG solved the Unicom vs noob, making them  not be in a direct counter to each other, WG will make the cv one more ship in the fleet closest to the same soup we all are in (on the expenses of the rest of the fleet).

So why not fighters?

even if one of the cvs get his planes shot down, he will have new planes on demand, already taking off, and the fighters themselves will get shot down over time, in that gap, the strike cv could get his bombs/torps to the target.

the strike cv could have fighters also, less squadrons,

could  bait to friendly AA, etc.

Give rear gunners to bombers and machine guns/canons on the front of the wings.

Proper dogfighters, where everything dogfigths .

 

Kamikazes? Bettys/hokas, P-39s, p-51s, Spitfires, Me- bf109s the all shabang ( the new game will allow us to call reinforcements from land, I did read this)

 

if I'm not mistaken, WG reduced the importance/impact of cvs, spotting, etc.

they could mix the old with the new.

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, eliastion said:
On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 10:01 PM, Butterdoll said:

 

Sure. But this, this and this look ok to me.

that's only because of scale.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

 

They will never, never and never have players control fighters again, ever.

 

This is Skill gap and one of the many reasons why they have changed it to this new system.

 

If they do then they will have completely gone against their own comments and look like idiots. Now I know that they have done things like this in the past, but I actually believe this is one thing they can't go back on. 

 

Giving players fighters will increase the skill gap.  That can't happen as they need to keep it as low as possible (like the new re-work).  That's not negative, it's fact.

 

So ditch the bombers and give fighters for all.

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50 minutes ago, Weirdgus said:

I'm reading that text over and over again and I still don't understand what will happen to my Hiryu, Saipan or Essex ? Will they be removed from the game forever (i.e. that considering a new branch somewhere next decade) ? Will I get some compensation? If I research the Midway will I still be able to buy her after the update ?

 

All your answers can be found right here: https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/cv8-which-nation-to-choose/

 

TL:DR - ANythign we remove will be compensated automatically. Also, if you research Midway before the update you can buy her and also have the choice to get a free XP refund for her if you don't like the gameplay.

 

17 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

Even with unlimited planes through out the game?

My impression so far, WG solved the Unicom vs noob, making them  not be in a direct counter to each other, WG will make the cv one more ship in the fleet closest to the same soup we all are in (on the expenses of the rest of the fleet).

So why not fighters?

even if one of the cvs get his planes shot down, he will have new planes on demand, already taking off, and the fighters themselves will get shot down over time, in that gap, the strike cv could get his bombs/torps to the target.

the strike cv could have fighters also, less squadrons,

could  bait to friendly AA, etc.

Give rear gunners to bombers and machine guns/canons on the front of the wings.

Proper dogfighters, where everything dogfigths .

 

Kamikazes? Bettys/hokas, P-39s, p-51s, the all shabang ( the new game will allow us to call reinforcements from land, I did read this)

 

if I'm not mistaken, WG reduced the importance/impact of cvs, spotting, etc.

they could mix the old with the new.

 

 

 

 

We don't want to have the CVs fighting their own private air battle, I don't see fighters coming back but we will see.

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5 minutes ago, MrConway said:

We don't want to have the CVs fighting their own private air battle, I don't see fighters coming back but we will see.

This could be the time when you offer World Of Warplanes players a possibility... if the server can take more players.

Have them do the job of fighters. Would be interesting to see what happens. 

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17 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

Even with unlimited planes.

even if one of the cvs get his planes shot down, he will have new planes on demand

 

You dont really have planes on demand.

Its "unlimited" planes in that you can never truely totally run out of planes.

It doesnt however mean you permantly always have full sized squads ready to go.

 

I will use the midway for example: it has 14 torp bombers on deck.

It launches a squad of 9. They all get shot down.

It now only has 5 left. It can launch these immediately, but its only launching a squad of 5 instead of 9. Because of how continuous DPS works (applies to a random plane each tick), these 5 will get shot down faster as theres less planes to.apply the damage tick to. Lets imagine these get killed too.

It now has 0 left.

It cant launch TB.

90 seconds later it has 1 (!) TB.

If it wanted it could launch a wave of 1 TB. As per the previous point about how AA damage ticks work, this plane would die almost immediately as it reaches a continuous AA DPS range.

If it wanted to wait till you have a full squad of 9 planes, then it would take 810 seconds to respawn the full 9. Thats 13.5 minutes of a game that only lasts 20 mins.

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5 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

All your answers can be found right here: https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/cv8-which-nation-to-choose/

 

TL:DR - ANythign we remove will be compensated automatically. Also, if you research Midway before the update you can buy her and also have the choice to get a free XP refund for her if you don't like the gameplay.

 

 

We don't want to have the CVs fighting their own private air battle, I don't see fighters coming back but we will see.

 

Even with only one squadron at a time?

you can give other ability to the odd cv, so he can chose to lose control over the squadron for another squadron.

you can turn your rocket planes into fighters making them dropping their fuel tanks (not being able to fire the rockets) or vice versa.

the new cv Unicom will be the fasted to do higher damage numbers anyways.

 

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12 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

All your answers can be found right here: https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/cv8-which-nation-to-choose/

 

TL:DR - ANythign we remove will be compensated automatically. Also, if you research Midway before the update you can buy her and also have the choice to get a free XP refund for her if you don't like the gameplay.

 

 

Thank you so much, I somehow missed that page.

 

I don't really understand if there is a difference between buying the Midway before or after the update, however it's pretty cool that at least the premium Carriers get moved to tier 8 and stuff.

 

Oh and another sidenote, despite some criticism, I believe this change is welcomed, CVs just gradually became more and more un-fun to play and to play against, sooo.. yay !?

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3 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

You dont really have planes on demand.

Its "unlimited" planes in that you can never truely totally run out of planes.

It doesnt however mean you permantly always have full sized squads ready to go.

 

I will use the midway for example: it has 14 torp bombers on deck.

It launches a squad of 9. They all get shot down.

It now only has 5 left. It can launch these immediately, but its only launching a squad of 5 instead of 9. Because of how continuous DPS works (applies to a random plane each tick), these 5 will get shot down faster as theres less planes to.apply the damage tick to. Lets imagine these get killed too.

It now has 0 left.

It cant launch TB.

90 seconds later it has 1 (!) TB.

If it wanted it could launch a wave of 1 TB. As per the previous point about how AA damage ticks work, this plane would die almost immediately as it reaches a continuous AA DPS range.

If it wanted to wait till you have a full squad of 9 planes, then it would take 810 seconds to respawn the full 9. Thats 13.5 minutes of a game that only lasts 20 mins.

Why?

that's crap.

 

you could launch the same 9 planes over and over again  (less damage per wave, same as now , 1 drops per wave)

 

why not? @MrConway?

 

WG is overcomplicate things

 

mix a little more the new with the old.

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On 1/26/2019 at 11:01 PM, Butterdoll said:

You were absolutely right @El2aZeR.

He is, even a N00B like me can do 200-250k damage in the CVs on the test server.

Not that hard to exterminate 6 BBs or kill al DDs. But we'll see how it happens with real players.

I found it much more entertaining though that the RTS-thing. 

 

And I see MANY points where WG could either take the nerf-hammer or the buff-polish if needed.

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7 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

Why?

that's crap.

 

you could launch the same 9 planes over and over again  (less damage per wave, same as now , 1 drops per wave)

 

why not? @MrConway?

 

WG is overcomplicate things

 

mix a little more the new with the old.

Because having a respawn means that a newbie can never be deplaned (happens a lot atm), but there is still a penalty for losing planes.

 

Your version theres literally no reason to not yolo every plane.

 

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3 hours ago, Mr_Snoww said:

:o some player being better than other players in an online game. What blasphemy is this. 

 

I feel for you brother and totally agree.

 

However, WG has taken this direction and there is nothing anyone can say or do that will change their minds now.  They have their own agenda. 

 

Look chaps...

 

The old CV system has completely proven that most players are not even capable of strafing, never mind anything else that comes with being a CV captain.  In all my CV games, i would say that 10% - 20% knew how to actually strafe, even less the ones that knew how to do it properly. Plus, only a minuscule 2% knew how to counter strafe or even strafe out of combat for more favourable   conditions.

 

Strafing is not rocket science. It isn't a black art. It's holding one button down, lining up the strafe and clicking a button.  THAT IS IT. 

 

I and other CV captains can shout till their blue in the face saying "GET GUD AND LEARN HOW TO PLAY BLOODY CV's", but those that learn how to play CV's are in the minority.  Most casual players don't wanna learn, simple really. 

 

Without sounding condescending and saying that all the new players are thick, this tells me that all people want to do is point and click. It tells me that people don't wanna muti task or do things that require, lets say more brain power than normal. Hence why this re-work is what it is.  It's a dumbed down version of CV play.  Rightly or wrongly, it's dumbed down.

 

The best games I've have had in this game was when facing another good CV captain.  It's something that other lines simply don't experience and those that play CV's know what i'm talking about. It's not only against the enemy fleet, but against your opposite number. That can be a daunting prospect for some players but i loved it.  I think that was the problem.  Too much pressure on CV's captains in the end. 

 

The rework has completely taken away the enemy CV part. No longer do you really need to bother about the other CV, you just do YOUR thing and farm damage.  That fighter consumable is a farce but hey ho.

 

I personally think this element has killed CV gameplay stone dead, but if that is a view shared by the majority of casual players then so be it.  WG need to bring the punters in and the current CV's didn't do it as much as they wanted.  

 

Now WG had made playing CV's harder and harder so they HAVE to shoulder alot of responsibility there. Buggy UI and NOT A SINGLE GUIDE HOW TO PLAY CV's aside,  adding crazy AA to ships (including DD's), patch after patch to the point that even Battleships can swat planes out of the sky (Alabama, Monty, Republic, Conq, Jean ect, Hood, DOY ect). Even giving Battlecrusiers defensive AA.  Adding premium CV's that were simply better than the silver counterparts and completely excluding CV's from clan battles.  Excluding them was the worst thing WG could do for popularity as why grind CV's if your a Clan player? Instead of playing my Fav line, I was forced to play cruisers.  Now i enjoy playing cruisers don't get me wrong, but i would liked to have thought that playing CV's for my clan in CB would have given us an experienced captain who could give any other Clans CV player a run for their money.  I know there are other CV's players that felt the same, all that hard work and experience thrown out the window.

 

WG could have added CV's into CB, easily.  Those that have ever played tier 8 Clan vs Clan with CV's know what i am talking about.  You are so far far from being a damage farmer, it's comical. 

 

They are appealing to a different generation of players now with CV's.  Planes on tap without a care in the world. 

 

Whatever happens, it will mix things up, both in randoms and CB which is a good thing potentially.  It isn't completely negative and if WG can praise be god balance it out then it might pay off in the end.  Only time will tell i suppose. However, i'm just afraid that after people see through the lovely graphics with flack blowing up everywhere, they will come back down to earth when it becomes very repetitive. 

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10 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

The rework has completely taken away the enemy CV part. No longer do you really need to bother about the other CV, you just do YOUR thing and farm damage.  That fighter consumable is a farce but hey ho.

I disagree. On the test server, where I managed to delete the 'red' CV (or at least made his life miserable enough) we invariably won.

If i could delete him, I went damage farming after that. IMO you must prioritise to take out the most dangerous ship.

Therefore WG should kick out the auto-consumables and the 'map-click-navigation-only' (if they don't I'll just farm CVs and get 100% winrate hhehehe).

 

If you do not take out the red CV, then it is just a matter of who farms damage fastest. 

That could also be an option for the no-good CV player, he'll still have influence.

 

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