Aircraft Carriers: Ship Replacement Rules - Discussion Thread

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, Han951753 said:

potential is useless unless you can make it happen in the real world. For so many years of WOWs haven't you figure out the fact that US Brunch always has a sort of good looking data, but the true ability you can use it in the real world is always limited to a minimum. This sort of becomes a US tec tree tradition in WOWs 

Well, the potential shows, that there is a potential. I can happen. Also hitting with HE bombs is not that hard. Also hitting with tiny tims a bb like Lion is not hard.

Anyways, I wouldn't take Tiny tims, also I wouldn't go with rockets for a bb. Instead I would use torps and bombs. The rockets against dds and cruisers. The US CV seem to be pretty good, some people say, they're better than the IJN

 

I would give you potential damage of tiny tims against Lion and Bombs against Khaba, but gues s you're not interested in potential damage.

Beside that, just because you didn't hit well with bombs and rockets, doesn't mean, that those CVs are bad, maybe you just didn't hit well

 

ps.: Try HVAR rockets

[Han951753]

12 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well, the potential shows, that there is a potential. I can happen. Also hitting with HE bombs is not that hard. Also hitting with tiny tims a bb like Lion is not hard.

Anyways, I wouldn't take Tiny tims, also I wouldn't go with rockets for a bb. Instead I would use torps and bombs. The rockets against dds and cruisers. The US CV seem to be pretty good, some people say, they're better than the IJN

 

I would give you potential damage of tiny tims against Lion and Bombs against Khaba, but gues s you're not interested in potential damage.

Beside that, just because you didn't hit well with bombs and rockets, doesn't mean, that those CVs are bad, maybe you just didn't hit well

 

ps.: Try HVAR rockets

I can only recommend you go and try JAp carriers, they are much more fun to play with than the US one. The pre-nerfed US carriers are great, but this one, no!

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, Han951753 said:

I can only recommend you go and try JAp carriers, they are much more fun to play with than the US one. The pre-nerfed US carriers are great, but this one, no!

I played them like 100+ games ;P

[Han951753]

Just now, Pikkozoikum said:

I played them like 100+ games ;P

So you still believe US is better? At least I don't think so

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, Han951753 said:

So you still believe US is better? At least I don't think so

Pretty hard to say. Overall I think they're slightly better. They have better rockets, which are easy to use, and HE bombs, which can be used against every targets.

That doesn't mean, that IJN ships are bad, I prefer IJN

[KazeAmaru]

Hang on, I got a question.

Now that IJN is completely pointless and has no advantages over US.

I'd like to scrap my complete IJN line and get all the XP and Commanders of to US: Can I do that?

If not, I will have to nag the support for it.

Also what is the ETA for 8.0?

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, KazeAmaru said:

Hang on, I got question.

Now that IJN is completely pointless and has no advantages over US.

I'd like to scrap my complete IJN line and get all the XP and Commanders of to US: Can I do that?

If not, I will have to nag the support for it.

1. I wouldn't do that because

A) Balancing can change.

B) I don't think that the USN CVs are that much better. If you read the post before yours, some people think the US are worse.

 

2. You get EXP and FreeEXP for "selling", but I'm not sure, if that will be enough free exp for the USN line. But you can figure that out in the new news article

[KazeAmaru]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

1. I wouldn't do that because

A) Balancing can change.

B) I don't think that the USN CVs are that much better. If you read the post before yours, some people think the US are worse.

 

2. You get EXP and FreeEXP for "selling", but I'm not sure, if that will be enough free exp for the USN line. But you can figure that out in the new news article

- IJN Citadell hits are worse to pull of, takes more time in AA. Also RNG is RNG.
- No fires
- Torpedo Damage is more or less the same
- US Rockets are far superior

In short name one thing IJN is supposedly better than US ^^

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, KazeAmaru said:

- IJN Citadell hits are worse to pull of, takes more time in AA. Also RNG is RNG.
- No fires
- Torpedo Damage is more or less the same
- US Rockets are far superior

In short name one thing IJN is supposedly better than US ^^

You mention some points, but there are way more factors

 

- Citadells can't almost not be healed, but fires can

-Torpedo damage of Haku 10k, of Midway 5k. IJN torpedos are better to aim, have more range, better spread and are faster (50 kts vs 35 kts)

- US rockets are far superior, that's true. It's the USN trait, while the IJN have better torps. (I assume the RN have the best bombs)

 

They're different with different traits. I think the USN are slightly better, but not that much to get rid of one line just to get the other...

[KazeAmaru]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You mention some points, but there are way more factors

 

- Citadells can't almost not be healed, but fires can

-Torpedo damage of Haku 10k, of Midway 5k. IJN torpedos are better to aim, have more range, better spread and are faster (50 kts vs 35 kts)

- US rockets are far superior, that's true. It's the USN trait, while the IJN have better torps. (I assume the RN have the best bombs)

 

They're different with different traits. I think the USN are slightly better, but not that much to get rid of one line just to get the other...

HE does always damage whilst AP can bounce and overpenetrate.

Torpedos are maybe, as they can easily be dodge in Haku's pattern harder in Midways

Also, the AA is so ridiculous that most of the time, you cannot dodge it. You cannot do anything against it. Even singled out on par Tier ships are so non-chalantly eating your planes without the player having to use skill.

So AP bombs, as it takes more time to aim and align them properly are even worse. HE drop and bail => Win

[Pikkozoikum]

9 minutes ago, KazeAmaru said:

HE does always damage whilst AP can bounce and overpenetrate.

So you shoot HE with battleships?  BB AP can bounce and overpenetrate... ;D

There are different mechanics with differen drawbacks and advantages. I like the AP bombs, they're fun.

 

9 minutes ago, KazeAmaru said:

Torpedos are maybe, as they can easily be dodge in Haku's pattern harder in Midways

I would assume, that the Midway torps are easier to dodge, since they need hours of adjustment and the slightest move or worng turn causes a huge spread. Beside that 35 kts, dds can outrun those torpedos, even some cruisers and almost some bbs. I would still say, that the IJN torps are generally better. That doesn't mean, that Midway torps are bad.

 

9 minutes ago, KazeAmaru said:

Also, the AA is so ridiculous that most of the time, you cannot dodge it. You cannot do anything against it. Even singled out on par Tier ships are so non-chalantly eating your planes without the player having to use skill.

Depends on CV player, non-CV player, and the used ships, skills, etc. Also that would be a drawback for the US Torpedobomber, when they have to dodge a lot, the spread will be terrible.

 

9 minutes ago, KazeAmaru said:

So AP bombs, as it takes more time to aim and align them properly are even worse. HE drop and bail => Win

Actually it feels like the AP bombs are more precise and easier to aim - also faster? Right now too lazy to test that in a trainingsroom

 

 

The only thing, that I'm envy of the USN: The AA sound, the guns sound so nasty, while the IJN have still the boring, standard sound

[thiextar]

On 1/25/2019 at 2:55 PM, MrConway said:

In addition there will be a week-long period of free captain retraining and respeccing following the update.

A week wont be enough, you(wargaming) said yourselves that carriers wont be balanced when they are released, instead they will be balanced based on data gathered from the live server, and i think its safe to say, it will take longer than a week to finish balancing them, and even then, the meta will keep shifting for a long period until we reach any sort of stable meta.

 

This cv rework will completely screw with the game and players for a long time. The least you can do is make sure that we atleast have the option of trying to adapt to this mess.

 

The only thing that will happen if you limit free retraining to 1 week, is that at the end of that week, I and im sure a lot of other players will simply reset all our captains, go away from the game for a month or two until the meta stabelises, and then train them all according to the most popular cc builds. Im sure this scenario is not the one you desire.

 

tl;dr: PLEASE extend the free skill  reset period to last until you are done balancing cv or the meta stabilizes, else you will drive a lot of players away from the game for several months, because playing would mean risking a captain build which may not be optimal.

[KazeAmaru]

18 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So you shoot HE with battleships?  BB AP can bounce and overpenetrate... ;D

There are different mechanics with differen drawbacks and advantages. I like the AP bombs, they're fun.

 

I would assume, that the Midway torps are easier to dodge, since they need hours of adjustment and the slightest move or worng turn causes a huge spread. Beside that 35 kts, dds can outrun those torpedos, even some cruisers and almost some bbs. I would still say, that the IJN torps are generally better. That doesn't mean, that Midway torps are bad.

 

Depends on CV player, non-CV player, and the used ships, skills, etc. Also that would be a drawback for the US Torpedobomber, when they have to dodge a lot, the spread will be terrible.

 

Actually it feels like the AP bombs are more precise and easier to aim - also faster? Right now too lazy to test that in a trainingsroom

 

 

The only thing, that I'm envy of the USN: The AA sound, the guns sound so nasty, while the IJN have still the boring, standard sound

1) HE can target all Ships, Good luck with AP bombs on subpar, or even onpar CLs. Even BBs can get overpenetration. HE doesn't care, he hits = DMG and module DMG.

2) Your planes are easily spotted, by the time you can drop they adjusted.Midway gives a leeway with its widespread to hit them regardless.
 

3) AA is just too strong, especially if you look how T8 planes get slaughted by CL T6s. They will not be fun to play. Especially since all the bots do not run AA skilled captains. CVs basically are just food for them. With the nerfed regeneration, you are either a super, super passive CV and get no DMG or meaningful play or you wait for your planes to regenerate a lot. (Especially true as they nerfed the extra health skill for CV captains from 50 to 20 per tier and plane. )

4) AP bombs can bounce, so striking/hitting your target is irrelevant. Plus their DMG and no Chance of fire are just plain bad. If a citadell hit would deal at least 10k, then they might be comparable to US

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, KazeAmaru said:

1) HE can target all Ships, Good luck with AP bombs on subpar, or even onpar CLs. Even BBs can get overpenetration. HE doesn't care, he hits = DMG and module DMG.

(T8 AP bombs on a T8 dd)

 

beside that, I wouldn't use AP bombs against targets, that are not good for AP bombs, but you can almost penetrate everything, just not recommended

Btw HE bombs can shatter ;)

 

4 minutes ago, KazeAmaru said:

2) Your planes are easily spotted, by the time you can drop they adjusted.Midway gives a leeway with its widespread to hit them regardless.

IJN Torpbomber have the best concealment and can stealth torp (Haku). So that is more a disadvantage to the USN CVs.  Widespread can be usefull, but still 35 knots.

 

5 minutes ago, KazeAmaru said:

3) AA is just too strong, especially if you look how T8 planes get slaughted by CL T6s. They will not be fun to play. Especially since all the bots do not run AA skilled captains. CVs basically are just food for them. With the nerfed regeneration, you are either a super, super passive CV and get no DMG or meaningful play or you wait for your planes to regenerate a lot.

I played a few player sessions in trainingsroom. It's actually pretty funny as CV and non-CV, but IJN have also the long range torps, which don't suffer from AA that much, if someone decides for a long range drop

 

8 minutes ago, KazeAmaru said:

4) AP bombs can bounce, so striking/hitting your target is irrelevant. Plus their DMG and no Chance of fire are just plain bad. If a citadell hit would deal at least 10k, then they might be comparable to US

Bounces happens only, when the drop was bad aimed. There are mechanics, if they're known, bounces will happen almost never. Overpens are more likely.

I just played a "bot" match: 17 bomb hits -  83k damage. That are ~4.9k per bomb. That's the same level of the HE bomb? The HE bomb can set fires, yes, but the citadel bomb hit can't not really be healed - different mechanics

 

Btw, if the damage is not balanced: Wargaming has really good statistics about which ship does which kind of damage against which ship type. So if they see, that the AP bomb is way weaker than the HE bomb, than they will balance it. They already did a lot balance over every test: The AP bomb did once around 12k damage per citadell

[Battleship_Nagato]

On 1/26/2019 at 5:59 AM, Catslave said:

That was exactly my problem and according to MrConway: " We tried to provide as much choice as we can, but we cannot consider every possible use case". So actually considering all 2 possible choices ( sell ship or sell ship and camo) and e.g. making the 3 affected camo's sellable like all the dozens other camo's in exactly the same menu is way too much work for a professional company.

Then I shall simply refund all the ships, cosmetic things are nice to have, yes, but they are not necessary. Some extra 10k gold for me. Now if only they rotated tech tree premiums a bit faster...

[lord_darth_vader_bg]

What will happen to my Taiho and Essex? As far as I understand will be removed, the experience and captains will go to Shokaku and Lexington. After some time you will run an alternative tree. And I'll have to re-discover the Taiho and Essex and train their captains for them again. And I will have to go from scratch.
This is not fair.

 

EDIT: If you are a clan member and have a discount (for example, 10%), will the compensation for the removal of a carrier be 10% less?

[Riggerby]

Does anyone have the numbers on the amount of FreeXP / Credits one would receive for refunding the entire US CV line?

 

I have the midway fully unlocked and honestly really don't like the look of the changes. I'd rather all my time, effort, and money from converting xp to get them were put in a line i actually enjoy. Just wanna know how much that will be.

 

Cheers :)

[eliastion]

15 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

2. You get EXP and FreeEXP for "selling", but I'm not sure, if that will be enough free exp for the USN line. But you can figure that out in the new news article

@KazeAmaru

There is no reason for USN CVs to be more expensive in XP than IJN ones - plus you have some extra freeXP for the fact that full line with even tiers is cheaper than the old full line and you actually do get the difference as freeXP. All things considered, you can easily swap the line for the USN one and you'll have plenty freeXP left over. This, however, only includes the ships themselves. As there is no option to refund captains for eliteXP, you're going to be stuck with experienced IJN captains and you'll have to get means for leveling new USN captains on your own.

 

As for the balance between the nations, based on my personal testing and looking at values:

 - USN rockets are superior but not without their problems. When I was testing them, I came to a conclusion that the USN advantage is smaller than I expected.

 - TBs are better on IJN side. And not only because of the long-range (or even stealth) torping because, let's be frank: it's not really that useful unless you find a complete noob that sit still. Even the straight-sailing specialists are very hard to hit from so far away because your torps are painfully slow and you don't get the DD-style lead aid to help you with aiming. In fact, from the range where you'd need to drop torps it might not even be that easy to determine whether your target is actually moving or not! Although perhaps it's better on higher graphic settings. Still, IJN torps seem just more useful from the limited testing I tried.

 - IJN DBs are irrelevant. Yes, you can score citadels but you most definitely won't get a citadel on every bomb (and some ships seem almost impossible to citadel even when trying that in training room against immobile targets). Not to mention that even just hitting your target in the first place seems easier for USN DBs. But even assuming that the latter is just my impression... let's put it this way:

Haku's DBs, full strike detachment drops 3 bombs. If every single one of them citadels, that's 8500 damage times 3: 25500 damage

Midway's DBs, full strike detachment drops 3x2=6 bombs. If every one of them hits and penetrates, that's ~3733 times 6: 22398 damage

Sure. The perfect drop from Haku deals over 3k damage more! Midway's DBs work on EVERYTHING while Haku's damage REQUIRES citadels that are basically impossible on many targets and hardly guaranteed on these where the possibility actually exists. And then there's the fact that Midway's DBs cause fires. All things considered, Haku's DBs seem a bit inferior to Midway even against targets that are PERFECT for Haku - and VASTLY inferior (or even outright useless) against everything else. There's just no contest here.

 

In conclusion - Haku is relatively balanced against Midway as far as the first two plane types are considered: a bit worse rockets, better torps. I could work with that. But then come DBs - and in that slot Midway gets another viable weapon choice. Haku doesn't. I can understand that WG didn't really want to see new CVs one-shoting Kurfursts (and other viable targets for AP bombs) but the effect is just pitiful. It's just sad when the "competition" almost matches your "perfect scenario" damage output without suffering any of the limitations associated with your bombs being AP. Maybe if IJN DBs were really superior and the bombs significantly easier to land - I can imagine DBs flying higher so that you instantly go into diving phase without having to increase altitude first. But there's nothing like that. If anything, USN DBs feel easier to use. And easier to use + more reliable + causing fires + more hp on the plane really can't be balanced out by IJN's speed and slightly better alpha in the one absolutely perfect scenario where every hit is a citadel (requiring you to have the right target and to hit it at the right spot, at the right angle - all these being considerations irrelevant for HE bombs that just deal the pen damage practically wherever they hit on whatever target they hit).

 

There's a good chance I'll stay with IJN for my IJN captains and for the torps, but frankly - I don't really consider this a rational decision at all. The power balance seems significantly skewed in USN favor. I really hope WG will address the issue in the initial balancing... although I have my doubts, considering that the disparity in performance between the DBs of both nations seems easily noticeable at a glance. You notice something's off just looking at the stats - so it doesn't seem like an issue that couldn't be fixed by pre-release balancing on test server already.

[gmomkey]

At the mo I have only IJN CV's but I am sooooooo looking forward to Her Majesty's Aircraft Carriers and I am so hoping that HMS Ark Royal is going to be the premum as I have been saving for her  ..

Please Please Devs  can we have HMS Ark Royal ....... 

[Ysterpyp]

Not sure if this is asked but still unsure , if i have hakuryu but not bought it can i still unresearch or do i have to buy it again and then be able to it?

[Catslave]

On 1/27/2019 at 12:39 AM, Han951753 said:

I was referring to a game I did in PT 3 with Lexington, the reason I said this is based on pure fact and experience. In that game I scored 34 Tiny tim, 15 trops and 23HE Bombs. in total I scored 120000+ dmg. Mine experience told me that you can hit a Khabarovsk with 4 HE bombs in a run and only remove 1/4 of its HP. And you know what, you said that you played 300 games in these days, that sounds very much like a make up, because people simply can not finish so many games in such few days. And considering the fact that you can only talk Data with me, and no specific examples. I can speculate with almost certain, that you never even tried a carrier yourself. You are just resaying what you heard from YouTube or so what.

4 hits and remove "ONLY" 25% HP ? That's like 5k+. So you're saying that you want to 1shot a Khabarovsk with a single  attack run of a T8 carrier to make the bombs useful ? Because Lexington drops 3x2 bombs per run and strike like every 15-30seconds 3 times in a row. In comparison Shokaku drops a glorious 3 AP bombs that will do like 600dmg or so (overpens) per bomb, assuming you don't just outright ricochet because you hit the turret / armor belt / w/e at an angle. That's not including that dive bomber are not really meant to even hunt DD ...

 

Please consider learning comprehensive  reading. I specifically said "like 300 carrier games in total". Not a single word about test server. So that's obviously the total amount of carrier games i have since i started playing over all servers and game modes.

 

Your speculations are at best funny. I surprisingly do around 100k avg in T4-T8 carriers on test server as long a the game is long enough. That means very little to some degree since both random and coop are largely bot matches anyway and the players tend to have totally useful AA meme builds.

But ok, i found a player bored enough for for some training room. Due to his choice of shipos we  ended up only doing T4 and he was using the british Danae.

 

First round Hosho Vs. Danae.

For starters i basicalled idled in his reinforced sector for almost 2 minutes, taking almost no damage at all.

Rockets scored some reliable 3-7k volleys, no real chance for him.

I fired 6 torpedos scoring not a single hit. He was dodging quite well and i just haven't trained enough to reliable torp anything anyone ... in short i semi suck at it.

For AP bombs i even asked him to not move at all. Out of the 6 bombs dropped over 3 attack runs i scored 4 hits, 3 being 300dmg overpens and 1 being a ricochet.

Result: If you can't line up torpedoes then the rockets are the best damage.

 

Second round Langley Vs Danae

Rockets did similar to IJN version. No chance for him to evade.

For torpedoes i got better and my 6th torp scored and unavoidable hit causing a flooding. Pretty much prove that torpedoes will become very strong the more used you get to them.

Dive Bombers gave me trouble hitting but i scored a solid ~10k +2 fires strike along with several strikes causing avarious amounts of less damage.

Result:as long as you can hit all 3 squads are equally deadly with torpedoes potentially being the lowest damage.

 

third round Langley Vs Shenyang

I really didn't bother trying to hit with anything but rockets. All in all i fired 216 rockets at him, killing him with 19 hits. That includes some dozen rockets blind fired into his smokes. Again as time passed my accuracy got better and the later volleys always scored hits.

Result irrelevant except for that carrier probably shi*ts on DD even more then ever before.

 

Didn't loose a single plane in any of those tests. I pretty much produced similar reults in normal games. Rockets are insanely reliable (I've done up to ~7k volleys on the T4 carriers against DD), though i didn't bother playing the T10 carriers ( i originally couldn't buy them thanks to the bug). HE bombs are probably the most devastating + reliable weapon as long as you can hit, their strength being conqueror level in terms of damage and fire chance and still better then any cruiser in terms of armor pen. AP bombs are garbage, even if you score a random citadel you can't really compete with the HE except for very specific cases. For the torpedoes all are usable, but their use depends more on training and experience then the other 2 squads.

All in all the USN are more reliable and allround usable in the current state.

[Catslave]

On 1/27/2019 at 1:21 AM, Han951753 said:

Training room shows you very little, and I was talking about Tiny Tim and you showed me bombers. But any way, mine point is, in real game you can never have such a good hit, you have to take care of AA, and AA from other enemy ships and some times even patrol fighters. Your hit rate will drop to about 50%+. And even with your very perfect hit you still get about -3000 Dmg per hit, specially with a Midway bomber squad, and I was using Lexington at the time. But if you use the JAP TBs, they can hit quite easily and deal much more dmg plus a very good chance causing flooding. 

 

On 1/27/2019 at 2:05 AM, Han951753 said:

potential is useless unless you can make it happen in the real world. For so many years of WOWs haven't you figure out the fact that US Brunch always has a sort of good looking data, but the true ability you can use it in the real world is always limited to a minimum. This sort of becomes a US tec tree tradition in WOWs 

Ok, you are officially just bad at it and desperately searching for an excuse.

Accuracy is something that comes with experience and effects all ships to variying degrees. If your accuracy is subpar, then USN HE bombers are your only hope. HE bombers will alyways do some damage and fires no matter where you hit the target. AP bombs can shatter and ricochet (or pen turret or similar) for flat 0 dmg a hit. Hitting nose/stern of most ships will result in overpens doing like 850dmg ( i think) for Hakuryu or 300dmg for Hosho and lastly some ships (DD'S) dont even have a citadel you could potentially hit. That is ignoring the fact that USN drops more bombers per run.

 

He showed you the potential by actually doing a bombing run and posting a picture of the outcome, that's neither useless nor good looking data. Besides that line made me laugh.

USN DD's have been reliable ships since their release.

USN light cruiser are often called overpowered for good reasons and USN heavy cruisers have (arguably)the best AP in the game while still retraining impressive HE ... and both have long lasting radar and good concealment.

USN BB have been reliable ships for most of the time, some of them like Montana or North Carolina very competetive even. Only few of them have been power creeped hard and none of them is as feared as FdG or Izumo...

USN carriers have always been ... well carriers, they just sh*t on everything that is not a carrier. Low tier suffers, mid tier and high tier can hold it's own and the introduction of AP bomber squads to the USN:

 

[Catslave]

On 1/27/2019 at 2:30 AM, Pikkozoikum said:

Pretty hard to say. Overall I think they're slightly better. They have better rockets, which are easy to use, and HE bombs, which can be used against every targets.

That doesn't mean, that IJN ships are bad, I prefer IJN

Pretty much that.

USN are more reliable and universally useful ... and likely easier to use.

[Catslave]

On 1/27/2019 at 2:57 AM, Pikkozoikum said:

You mention some points, but there are way more factors

 

- Citadells can't almost not be healed, but fires can

-Torpedo damage of Haku 10k, of Midway 5k. IJN torpedos are better to aim, have more range, better spread and are faster (50 kts vs 35 kts)

Problem is that DD have no citadels and cruiser up to including T8 (except british) can't heal anyway, neither can most of the DD. There is also the possibility of overpenetrating the citadel. The argument that fire can be healed is partially true in some way. There is a limit to how many heals you have, an action and cooldown time. So you can only heal a maximum of * HP per cycle and a maximum of * HP per game. A Midgay can potentially set 4 x6 fires per full HE bomber squad (4 attack runs a 6 bombs each). Using all 4 attacks will take 1minute+. You can only damage con once. So you either burn in multiple places until all 4 strikes are done (way more damage then you can heal) or you damage con + repair multiple fires and then burn through the full duration of the follow up fires. Even assuming nobody else shoots you, after the DB Squad is done the Midgay can instantly start a new squad and the super sonic planes are likely to reach and continue bombing you in less then 1 minute. Either way the fire damage has a very high chance of outpacing your healing potential and there is no way of "going dark" or taking cover against a carrier. Also for Cruiser and DD the intial bomb damage is also terrifying since they are usually not capable of healing the (potentially) 10k+ damage caused by the bombs itself with a single consumable use.

The torps that is only for Hakuryu and Midway, difference in damage for all other carriers is alot smaller and Langley even deals more damage then Hosho. Speed gets somewhat compensated by the minimum arming distance.

 

On 1/27/2019 at 3:11 AM, Pikkozoikum said:

So you shoot HE with battleships?  BB AP can bounce and overpenetrate... ;D

There are different mechanics with differen drawbacks and advantages. I like the AP bombs, they're fun.

 

I would assume, that the Midway torps are easier to dodge, since they need hours of adjustment and the slightest move or worng turn causes a huge spread. Beside that 35 kts, dds can outrun those torpedos, even some cruisers and almost some bbs. I would still say, that the IJN torps are generally better. That doesn't mean, that Midway torps are bad.

 

Actually it feels like the AP bombs are more precise and easier to aim - also faster? Right now too lazy to test that in a trainingsroom

Well. BB can fire at a flat broadside completely removing the problem of bounces. AP bomb always come from somewhat above, hitting the broadside is largely impossible due to the aiming reticule's shape. Bombs from above have a higher chance of ricochetting from turrets or other armored parts then BB shells coming in at a rather flat trajectory. And you probably already realised that alot of BB indeed fire HE at everything... ... ...

 

Ideally you torp the side rather then from the front or back, making it near impossible for a DD to dodge or outrun the torp since turning into/away from the torp bleeds speed and takes time even if your theoretical max speed in a straight line is 40kts+. The argument of torp speed is valid pre-rework since you have a deadzone before the drop where you can no longer adjust your aim, allowing your victim to turn into/out. With the rework the torpedo can be adjusted until drop, so it will be unlikely that you can run paralell to the torps dropped by a sufficiently experienced player. So the difference in torp speed becomes less significant. On the other hand rudder shift time, acceleration/decelleratiion and turning circle will become alot more important for other ships.

 

Would be interesting if someone is bored enough to test the DB. From my limited experience so far the accuracy is worse, partly because USN just drops more bombs over seemingly the same area. Then again AP bombers are utter garbage except for citadel hits (and maybe full pens). More precise or easier to aim means little if all you get is overpens and ricochets. Would be nice to know the "caliber" of the AP bombs, their pen angles and if they are effected by overmatch.

[lovelacebeer]

Having tried the new gameplay in PTS I know this rework isn't for me, I just found it too boring and repetitive so it's great I can refund the XP and credits for my researched CVs.