Aircraft Carriers: Ship Replacement Rules - Discussion Thread

[MRGTB]

I would use the UK line of CV's if they come in the next update soon. I said "would", but I won't because playing CV is like watching paint dry after trying them. So boring, point and click on a map game (reminds me of EVE). But each to their own liking I guess...

[Han951753]

So as usual, Jap carriers are much more powerful than the US carriers. The experience in PT server tells me that Japs can deal more dmg, more capable of strike, flys much more faster with TB and DB, and aim quicker. Jap is literally better  in every single aspect. Even in HP part, the only good part in US aircrafts, US does not stands out very much. AA will bring down your plane and fast. Really, in this patch, there is not much for a reason why you want to choose US carriers, specially after PT 2 WG removed that very useful US 2000BL HE bomb. 

[Pikkozoikum]

1 hour ago, Han951753 said:

So as usual, Jap carriers are much more powerful than the US carriers. The experience in PT server tells me that Japs can deal more dmg, more capable of strike, flys much more faster with TB and DB, and aim quicker. Jap is literally better  in every single aspect. Even in HP part, the only good part in US aircrafts, US does not stands out very much. AA will bring down your plane and fast. Really, in this patch, there is not much for a reason why you want to choose US carriers, specially after PT 2 WG removed that very useful US 2000BL HE bomb. 

US CVs have better rockets and HE bombs do often more alpha damage.

[Catslave]

6 hours ago, Battleship_Nagato said:

I have both Halloween camos for carriers but I want to refund everything and start over. Any chance I can keep those two camo options available for me in the future while refunding all the normal permacamo?

That was exactly my problem and according to MrConway: " We tried to provide as much choice as we can, but we cannot consider every possible use case". So actually considering all 2 possible choices ( sell ship or sell ship and camo) and e.g. making the 3 affected camo's sellable like all the dozens other camo's in exactly the same menu is way too much work for a professional company.

 

53 minutes ago, Han951753 said:

So as usual, Jap carriers are much more powerful than the US carriers. The experience in PT server tells me that Japs can deal more dmg, more capable of strike, flys much more faster with TB and DB, and aim quicker. Jap is literally better  in every single aspect. Even in HP part, the only good part in US aircrafts, US does not stands out very much. AA will bring down your plane and fast. Really, in this patch, there is not much for a reason why you want to choose US carriers, specially after PT 2 WG removed that very useful US 2000BL HE bomb. 

Um ... what ?

 

IJN AP bombs are total garbage unless you accidently manage to score citadels. Considering DD's have no citadels, many cruisers have literally no horizontal armor and BB's tend to have submerged citadel with spaced armor and/or turtleback (as well as hvly armored turrets) that's not really promising. Add in that you now drop a meager 2 (T4+6) / 3 (T8+10) bombs per run with the same dispersion as the pre-rework USN squads with 6 bombers and those aren't even worth launching. At T4 for instance you are doing 2x 3ooodmg ...IF you hit the citadel, you are more likely to get overpens all day giving you a massive 300dmg per hit (not including you can shatter and ricochet) ... your squad would likely deal more damage if the pilot just pissed on the surface ship while passing over it...  Hakuryu can in theory deal 25.5oodmg per run which is borderline OP, but i wanna see you score citadel hits with all 3 bombs...

In comparison USN drops 2-6 HE bombs with something in the range of 7.300- 11.2oo dmg per bomb and a 41%-64% base fire chance +5% from DE +2% from flags. We're talking about 14.600 dmg with 2/5 hits causing fires at T4 to 67.2oodmg with 16/25 hits causing a fire at T10 while damaging/destroying pretty much all the modules on the ship. Even the lol Tier4 bombers already have a massive 42mm armor pen, the Midgay even has 67mm ... so you do guaranteed penetrations unless you hit the turret.

 

For the torps it's split. Hakuryu can (in theory) stealth torp ...how great that is in practice has yet to be seen. IJN drops 1-2 torps (4 for the mod. 8) per run, USN drops 1-6. IJN might be faster but USN can be dropped closer to the target. Only at T10 do IJN torps deal noticibly more damage, which is or can be negated by the greater amount of torpedos dropped.

 

For the rockets it's another toss up, though i feel USN gets the better choices. IJN drops 6-24 rockets with 28-30mm penetration. While the 28mm at T4 are good enough, the 30mm at T10 will fail against the common 32mm armor and the less common 50mm armor.  We're talking about 13.2oo dmg with 8% fire chance on Hosho to 72.ooodmg with 18% fire chance on Hakuryu.

 USN drops 12-36 rockets with 27-33mm pen which is already a bonus since you can pen the 32mm armor threshhold at T10. Also 22.800dmg with 8% Fire chance for Langley up to 72.ooodmg with 9% fire chance on Midgay. And then there is the V2...ahem, Tiny Tim. At T10 we're talking about 9 rockets, combined 48.6oodmg with 36% fire chance and 68mm armor penetration ...

 

In terms of speed the difference barely matters. There are no longer fighter squads you have to outrun and all planes are flying at super sonic speed anyway.

 

So all in all USN has the better carriers. The IJN torps may sound nice, but hitting a cruiser will require practice and hitting a DD will require a braindead DD player. Rockets on the other hands are equally efficient against everything you can pen (and USN has better pen) while HE dive bomber are just better, since AP only work against selected targets and are only noteworthy if you actually manage to land citadel hits...

[Atris2nd]

I'm curious if any CCs can tell me: Are there plans to start selling the premium CVs? I am still upset about the Graf Zeppelin situation. When she was released, I was ready to buy her, then was told not to, then she got reworked and became amazing and now she's reworked again. I really just wanna get my hands on that ship and I'm saving up my gold for it. Please let me know.

[SuItan_Kosmitow]

20 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

Please read the article carefully! :)

 

In addition there will be a week-long period of free captain retraining and respeccing following the update.

 

 

This is not a typo, as the XP is not currently free it will not be freed up when selling the ship. Captains can be retrained to another ship for free in the week following the update if you want to avoid this.

Hi

 

Will it be possible to buy premium carriers after 0.8.0 release?. Same thing for Arsenal Captains with some bonuses towards CV.

 

Regards

[Whistler1984]

20 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

If you sell and "unresearch" the entire line, you should get back all of the XP formerly spent.

 

Just to clarify, if I sell and unresearch the entire line of CVs I'll get back all the XP spent in that line (500K+ I have in each of the IJN and USN CV lines) as FXP? 

 

I basically dislike the whole CV rework and will treat it as persona non-grata so I want to take all the XP I built up in my CV lines and invest it in an FXP ship like Alaska or use it to advance my BB and CA lines to T10. This is possible right? I dont want all my CV XP locked in a new T4 hosho or  Langley or T1 Erie or Hashidate. 

[Han951753]

8 hours ago, Catslave said:

That was exactly my problem and according to MrConway: " We tried to provide as much choice as we can, but we cannot consider every possible use case". So actually considering all 2 possible choices ( sell ship or sell ship and camo) and e.g. making the 3 affected camo's sellable like all the dozens other camo's in exactly the same menu is way too much work for a professional company.

 

Um ... what ?

 

IJN AP bombs are total garbage unless you accidently manage to score citadels. Considering DD's have no citadels, many cruisers have literally no horizontal armor and BB's tend to have submerged citadel with spaced armor and/or turtleback (as well as hvly armored turrets) that's not really promising. Add in that you now drop a meager 2 (T4+6) / 3 (T8+10) bombs per run with the same dispersion as the pre-rework USN squads with 6 bombers and those aren't even worth launching. At T4 for instance you are doing 2x 3ooodmg ...IF you hit the citadel, you are more likely to get overpens all day giving you a massive 300dmg per hit (not including you can shatter and ricochet) ... your squad would likely deal more damage if the pilot just pissed on the surface ship while passing over it...  Hakuryu can in theory deal 25.5oodmg per run which is borderline OP, but i wanna see you score citadel hits with all 3 bombs...

In comparison USN drops 2-6 HE bombs with something in the range of 7.300- 11.2oo dmg per bomb and a 41%-64% base fire chance +5% from DE +2% from flags. We're talking about 14.600 dmg with 2/5 hits causing fires at T4 to 67.2oodmg with 16/25 hits causing a fire at T10 while damaging/destroying pretty much all the modules on the ship. Even the lol Tier4 bombers already have a massive 42mm armor pen, the Midgay even has 67mm ... so you do guaranteed penetrations unless you hit the turret.

 

For the torps it's split. Hakuryu can (in theory) stealth torp ...how great that is in practice has yet to be seen. IJN drops 1-2 torps (4 for the mod. 8) per run, USN drops 1-6. IJN might be faster but USN can be dropped closer to the target. Only at T10 do IJN torps deal noticibly more damage, which is or can be negated by the greater amount of torpedos dropped.

 

For the rockets it's another toss up, though i feel USN gets the better choices. IJN drops 6-24 rockets with 28-30mm penetration. While the 28mm at T4 are good enough, the 30mm at T10 will fail against the common 32mm armor and the less common 50mm armor.  We're talking about 13.2oo dmg with 8% fire chance on Hosho to 72.ooodmg with 18% fire chance on Hakuryu.

 USN drops 12-36 rockets with 27-33mm pen which is already a bonus since you can pen the 32mm armor threshhold at T10. Also 22.800dmg with 8% Fire chance for Langley up to 72.ooodmg with 9% fire chance on Midgay. And then there is the V2...ahem, Tiny Tim. At T10 we're talking about 9 rockets, combined 48.6oodmg with 36% fire chance and 68mm armor penetration ...

 

In terms of speed the difference barely matters. There are no longer fighter squads you have to outrun and all planes are flying at super sonic speed anyway.

 

So all in all USN has the better carriers. The IJN torps may sound nice, but hitting a cruiser will require practice and hitting a DD will require a braindead DD player. Rockets on the other hands are equally efficient against everything you can pen (and USN has better pen) while HE dive bomber are just better, since AP only work against selected targets and are only noteworthy if you actually manage to land citadel hits...

You are still living in the past, In the first PT, US HE bombs do really deal lots of dmg and is amazing. BUT in PT 3 it is removed, you never get a dmg over 2000 per hit now. And by the same time the ability of causing flooding for US TBs are also reduced to almost 0. Sometimes you can score 15 Trops in a game and causing 0 flooding at all. If WG really release 0.8.0 identical to PT 3 US carriers are definitely not going to de well.  

[Han951753]

9 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

US CVs have better rockets and HE bombs do often more alpha damage.

That was a very old story from PT1, now in PT3 the HE bombs are just as useless as Jap APs, and Tiny Tim is also nerfed to an unacceptable level. Also the flooding causing rate of US CVs are nerfed to almost 0, your trops literally never cause flooding. Mine experience was I hit 15 trops in a game and caused 0 flooding. 

[panos_abarth]

23 hours ago, Dehtre said:

Its not like you have much experience with playing CVs, do you really feel this comment was necessary? 

 

I'm looking forward to test the new CV gameplay on live servers and hope that WG will closely monitor their balance.

BLA BLA NEXT TIME ALL CARRIER PLAYERS CRY ALL TOGETHER

ALL SHIPS TURN AA   

 

[buccaneer_invader]

23 hours ago, JackIron410 said:

@MrConway

@The_EURL_Guy

Hi

It seems you might have done an error when writing about the Graf Zeppelin

In the table it sais that each Dive bomber has 1 AP bomb, however, in the table you wrote that each dive bombers carries 1. Is it only 1 per aircraft or 2?

 

Also, why aren't we able to buy the premium CVs before 0.8.2?

No am asking why they still have no BRITISH Royal Navy AIRCRAFT  Carriers done. I also want H M S  BELFAST  to add to my fleet as I only use British Ships.

[rimmer_the]

You can summarize those walls of text in the update article quite easily.  "The refit is there to mainly benefit premium carriers and to widen the gap between tech tree and premium cv's. Why haven't you bought a premium cv yet, customer???".

[Timberjac]

If I try the "rework" some games, and I still thinking that new console game mode, is soo boring and crappy as it was on the tests, I known that I can sell all tiered CV for  free XP and money… but, I wish known if the premium cammo will be paid back, or they will be kidnnapped for WG (about those cammos on CV that "remain" on tree, none is say on the article)?.

 

Maybe some day… CV will be played again if WG send this rework where it must be... in the trash; beacouse I play to WoWs to play with ships, not with planes, If I wish do that, I have WoWps (even a lot better and more funny that this new game mode for "Cv's")

[Atris2nd]

5 minutes ago, rimmer_the said:

You can summarize those walls of text in the update article quite easily.  "The refit is there to mainly benefit premium carriers and to widen the gap between tech tree and premium cv's. Why haven't you bought a premium cv yet, customer???".

I mean, I'd love to buy the Graf Zeppelin. If they'd let me buy it. Literally instabuy. I have money that I am absolutely willing to part ways with to get my hands on GZ.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 hours ago, Han951753 said:

That was a very old story from PT1, now in PT3 the HE bombs are just as useless as Jap APs, and Tiny Tim is also nerfed to an unacceptable level. Also the flooding causing rate of US CVs are nerfed to almost 0, your trops literally never cause flooding. Mine experience was I hit 15 trops in a game and caused 0 flooding. 

HE Bombs still do something around up to 18k + fires. And as long as I know, you don't use tiny times, the HVAR can do 11k+ dmg to cruisers.

[Timberjac]

A game, where in several years, their develoment dont understand one concept: to attack ships, from CV to transports planes use AP bombs, and they think than HE bombs and fires from HE shells are the meta of the game, is nearly lost… if those same "develoment" rework the CV's, with the same wrong concept, add anothers wrwong as rockets on planes from tier IV to VI, and the CV's become nearly irrelevant just how their first goal has become (try to gain air superiority), is only a crap that need erase.

 

If WG think that players than dont play CV's will become new CV premiums purchasers that give them more profit than older CV users, WG is really wrong. The new console made mode, is boring really boring and it feel apart from anything call CV's.

[Catslave]

5 hours ago, Han951753 said:

That was a very old story from PT1, now in PT3 the HE bombs are just as useless as Jap APs, and Tiny Tim is also nerfed to an unacceptable level. Also the flooding causing rate of US CVs are nerfed to almost 0, your trops literally never cause flooding. Mine experience was I hit 15 trops in a game and caused 0 flooding. 

Maybe you are just too bad ? Because that:

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

HE Bombs still do something around up to 18k + fires. And as long as I know, you don't use tiny times, the HVAR can do 11k+ dmg to cruisers.

You can somewhat reliably do 10k+ and fires even on low tiers using the HE bombs. If you seriously need HE bombs with 40k dmg per bomb and 200% fire chance then play something else. Also that is miles away from what you usually do with AP jokes.

Tiny Tims nerfed to unacceptable level ? Every 15-30seconds you can crap on an enemy using rockets that are almost guaranteed to score some hit with 5.4k dmg, 36% fire chance and a massive 68mm pen ? Those are likely to so more damage then the IJN AP bombers.... and ya, the HVAR sh*t so many 32mm pen rockets at the enemy that you can reliably do some pretty good damage.

You hit 15 torps ? What tier ?  Because 15 torp hits sounds somewhat low. And the flooding chance depends on where you hit .... but w/e, continue complaining that torps which you can potentially drop every 15-30seconds at near point blank range don't have 100% flooding chance.

 

 

What i gather from most videos as well as my own games is simple: you can reliably do above average as long as the game isn't a 5minutes onesided slaughter. ...and i am neither carrier main nor tryhard, in fact i have like maybe 300 games total in carriers. And whatever you say, 32mm pen rockets and (almost) Conqueror level HE bombs are just more reliable and universally useable then 30mm pen rockets and sad AP bombs.

[Han951753]

6 hours ago, Catslave said:

Maybe you are just too bad ? Because that:

You can somewhat reliably do 10k+ and fires even on low tiers using the HE bombs. If you seriously need HE bombs with 40k dmg per bomb and 200% fire chance then play something else. Also that is miles away from what you usually do with AP jokes.

Tiny Tims nerfed to unacceptable level ? Every 15-30seconds you can crap on an enemy using rockets that are almost guaranteed to score some hit with 5.4k dmg, 36% fire chance and a massive 68mm pen ? Those are likely to so more damage then the IJN AP bombers.... and ya, the HVAR sh*t so many 32mm pen rockets at the enemy that you can reliably do some pretty good damage.

You hit 15 torps ? What tier ?  Because 15 torp hits sounds somewhat low. And the flooding chance depends on where you hit .... but w/e, continue complaining that torps which you can potentially drop every 15-30seconds at near point blank range don't have 100% flooding chance.

 

 

What i gather from most videos as well as my own games is simple: you can reliably do above average as long as the game isn't a 5minutes onesided slaughter. ...and i am neither carrier main nor tryhard, in fact i have like maybe 300 games total in carriers. And whatever you say, 32mm pen rockets and (almost) Conqueror level HE bombs are just more reliable and universally useable then 30mm pen rockets and sad AP bombs.

I was referring to a game I did in PT 3 with Lexington, the reason I said this is based on pure fact and experience. In that game I scored 34 Tiny tim, 15 trops and 23HE Bombs. in total I scored 120000+ dmg. Mine experience told me that you can hit a Khabarovsk with 4 HE bombs in a run and only remove 1/4 of its HP. And you know what, you said that you played 300 games in these days, that sounds very much like a make up, because people simply can not finish so many games in such few days. And considering the fact that you can only talk Data with me, and no specific examples. I can speculate with almost certain, that you never even tried a carrier yourself. You are just resaying what you heard from YouTube or so what.

[Han951753]

8 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

HE Bombs still do something around up to 18k + fires. And as long as I know, you don't use tiny times, the HVAR can do 11k+ dmg to cruisers.

It certainly does not feel the same as the Data says, I hit a Khabarovsk with 4 HE bombs in a run and only remove 1/4 of its HP, something like around 5000 dmg. I admit I never used HVAR, so there is nothing I can say to that specific one, but I did had difficulty bering down a 2000+ HP Lion with 2 Tiny Tim run. 

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, Han951753 said:

It certainly does not feel the same as the Data says, I hit a Khabarovsk with 4 HE bombs in a run and only remove 1/4 of its HP, something like around 5000 dmg. I admit I never used HVAR, so there is nothing I can say to that specific one, but I did had difficulty bering down a 2000+ HP Lion with 2 Tiny Tim run. 

Well, it depends on what you hit.

Is the part depleted on HP?

Did the bomb hit a turret or module?

 

There are mechanics, which causes different damage numbers.

 

Larger targets have more deck and superstructure to hit, so it's more likely to get those damage numbers against larger ships

[Han951753]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well, it depends on what you hit.

Is the part depleted on HP?

Did the bomb hit a turret or module?

 

There are mechanics, which causes different damage numbers

Mid part of that Lion, it show no black marks on the Moduls and I managed 3 penetration hits and 2 no pan. Does not feels like a reason why I have to strike him with another bomber squad. 

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, Han951753 said:

Mid part of that Lion, it show no black marks on the Moduls and I managed 3 penetration hits and 2 no pan. Does not feels like a reason why I have to strike him with another bomber squad. 

I went to the trainingsroom and the first drop:

 

 

I mean: Of course you can't get always good hits, but they're possible, same with AP bombs

BTW second drop 20k

[Han951753]

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I went to the trainingsroom and the first drop:

 

 

I mean: Of course you can't get always good hits, but they're possible, same with AP bombs

BTW second drop 20k

Training room shows you very little, and I was talking about Tiny Tim and you showed me bombers. But any way, mine point is, in real game you can never have such a good hit, you have to take care of AA, and AA from other enemy ships and some times even patrol fighters. Your hit rate will drop to about 50%+. And even with your very perfect hit you still get about -3000 Dmg per hit, specially with a Midway bomber squad, and I was using Lexington at the time. But if you use the JAP TBs, they can hit quite easily and deal much more dmg plus a very good chance causing flooding. 

[Pikkozoikum]

5 minutes ago, Han951753 said:

Training room shows you very little, and I was talking about Tiny Tim and you showed me bombers. But any way, mine point is, in real game you can never have such a good hit, you have to take care of AA, and AA from other enemy ships and some times even patrol fighters. Your hit rate will drop to about 50%+. And even with your very perfect hit you still get about -3000 Dmg per hit, specially with a Midway bomber squad, and I was using Lexington at the time. But if you use the JAP TBs, they can hit quite easily and deal much more dmg plus a very good chance causing flooding. 

I was never talking about Tiny Tims. I mentioned HE Bombs and HVAR. Beside that, I missread it, that you meant the Tiny Tims, but as I said, wasn't the topic.

Also I mentioned special cases, where HP are depleted, or where you hit modules.

I was just showing the damage potential, which is not that rare like a detonation

 

[Han951753]

31 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I was never talking about Tiny Tims. I mentioned HE Bombs and HVAR. Beside that, I missread it, that you meant the Tiny Tims, but as I said, wasn't the topic.

Also I mentioned special cases, where HP are depleted, or where you hit modules.

I was just showing the damage potential, which is not that rare like a detonation

 

potential is useless unless you can make it happen in the real world. For so many years of WOWs haven't you figure out the fact that US Brunch always has a sort of good looking data, but the true ability you can use it in the real world is always limited to a minimum. This sort of becomes a US tec tree tradition in WOWs