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who_dares_wins

Blue-on-blue torpedo situations

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"Your torpedoes, your responsibility."

 

How many times have you seen or heard something along those lines? Up until very recently, I believed that this was true. However, I've recently encountered two situations in which I believe that the person firing the torpedoes was not at fault, one in which I fired the torpedoes, the other in which I was hit by them.

 

First situation:

I'm in an Akizuki at the south-east edge of B point on The Atlantic. I spot an enemy North Carolina hugging the rock formation between A and B, and fire my torpedoes at him. The nearest friendly is a Fletcher, who is just heading into A to cap it (he's on the edge of A) and IIRC wasn't even in render range. As soon as I fire, he immediately turns 180 degrees and sails through the gap in the two Islands to try to point blank torpedo the NC, just managing to clip the last torpedo before it ran out of range. The rest of the torpedoes hit the NC. As he was actually attacking the NC when he was hit, there was no way he could possibly miss the friendly torpedo spread hitting it and heading toward him.

 

Second situation:

I'm in a Graf Spee on North, hugging the island just west of C (D on Northern Lights). An enemy Grad Spee has beached himself on the side of the island in the cap itself, and a friendly Tirpitz is pushing in to kill him, and I accelerate, intending to go around the corner and support him. Before he fires his torpedoes, he warns me in chat "Graf, torps.". As he says this, the enemy Graf Spee's torpedoes are spotted heading near me. I misinterpret the Tirpitz's warning as being about those torpedoes, and acknowledge him using "Wilco!". He misinterprets this as the green light to fire away, as I will be positioning myself out of the way, and fires. Moving to get out of the firing arc of the enemy Graf Spee's remaining launcher, I blunder into the Tirpitz's torpedoes and die.

 

edit: My explanation of the first situation seems unclear, sorry. I was not behind the Fletcher, I was in fact closer to the NC than he was. He was on the other side of the NC. I did not fire from the second line, one of the torpedoes overshot the NC and just managed to clip the Fletcher before running out of range. He was initially outside of render range, meaning that he was nearly SEVEN KM outside of torpedo range when I fired, heading in the opposite direction.

 

I understand that in most cases accidental torpedo teamkills are the fault of the person firing the torpedoes. However, I don't see how in either of these situations the launcher could be faulted. Are these exceptions to the rule? Are they still the launcher's fault? What is certain however, is that things are not quite so clear cut in situations like these.

 

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If you drop behind me, make sure I will not see them or be able to catch them, because I will...

 

If you want to torp, be on 1st line.

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My feeling is the usual mantra still stands, regardless, as far as team damage penalties are concerned.

Morally (like many people care), there might be the occasional situation where 'fault' is a little strong, but they're so rare as to be largely irrelevant, I'd suggest...

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13 minutes ago, who_dares_wins said:

"Your torpedoes, your responsibility."

Should have stopped there. And about your 1st example, never torp towards friendly DD near cap, you never know when or why he needs to turn and where.

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Happens from time to time, the Atago is an unlucky ship for me  for this, and it now makes me more aware of the mini map, first time I ever did it I could not even find the chat key to apologise, that was well over a year ago now, but if you do team damage then just take the punishment like a man, you do wrong WG punishes you, I am all for that.

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Does it matter?

No - damage is done either way. So in the end, its still smarter to NOT throw the torps. Sure, sometimes you have to take the risk. Just today i ended up in a brawl with my Musashi vs a Missouri, and my Division DD tried to help me, because i was reversing and Missouri was going full ahead. I didnt catch the torps because i kept reversing straight.

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Oh for [edited]sake, you turn pink for 2 games if you don't make a habit of it. Who cares who's responsibility it is. 

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4 minutes ago, That_Other_Nid said:

Oh for [edited]sake, you turn pink for 2 games if you don't make a habit of it. Who cares who's responsibility it is. 

I think some of those feel a bit shame (thats good for start) and they don't like that feeling and try change the game not to feel it?

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43 minutes ago, who_dares_wins said:

"Your torpedoes, your responsibility."

 

Cause and effect.  You made the choice to launch torpedoes, what happens after is your responsibility. 

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They could just give everyone a free Vigilance skill for "friendly" torps so that allies could see them coming. That would let everyone get on with playing their game without derpishness and aggro. 

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18 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

They could just give everyone a free Vigilance skill for "friendly" torps so that allies could see them coming. That would let everyone get on with playing their game without derpishness and aggro. 

ΣÏεÏική εικÏνα

 

you can already spot the friendly torps from the time they are lunched ..7000 battles you havent noticed that yet..

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10 minutes ago, cpt_sparrow_jack said:

you can already spot the friendly torps from the time they are lunched ..7000 battles you havent noticed that yet..

It's not just me, if that's the case. Do you mean "you can spot them" or "they are visible from the moment of launch"...?

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12 minutes ago, cpt_sparrow_jack said:

ΣÏεÏική εικÏνα

 

you can already spot the friendly torps from the time they are lunched ..7000 battles you havent noticed that yet..

It even makes sounds when they are coming

 

 

it's true.gif

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22 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

It's not just me, if that's the case. Do you mean "you can spot them" or "they are visible from the moment of launch"...?

 

They are rendered for you the moment they launch... how much did you pay for this account?

 

Ow you disliked this post? Dont worry, people buys all kinds of stuff, dont be mad...

 

Spoiler

But how much?

 

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2 minutes ago, Juanx said:

They are rendered for you the moment they launch... how much did you pay for this account?

Hang on a minute. So where's all this "your torps, your responsibility" stuff coming from? People are running into torpedoes that have been visible to them from the second that they were launched and somehow it's someone else's fault?

 

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1 hour ago, who_dares_wins said:

"Your torpedoes, your responsibility."

Always. I've always said that since before I knew it was common.

 

1 hour ago, who_dares_wins said:

First situation:

Still your responsibility. You don't know what other players will do. Things that seem deliberate are usually because of an unfortunate coincidence.

 

1 hour ago, who_dares_wins said:

Second situation:

The miscommunication comes from the unclear warning, so it's clearly the Tirpitz's fault.

 

1 hour ago, who_dares_wins said:

I understand that in most cases accidental torpedo teamkills are the fault of the person firing the torpedoes. However, I don't see how in either of these situations the launcher could be faulted. Are these exceptions to the rule? Are they still the launcher's fault? What is certain however, is that things are not quite so clear cut in situations like these.

The only exceptions I can see is if the player deliberately try to catch the torpedoes. That's actively working against the team, which is a bannable offence.

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8 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Hang on a minute. So where's all this "your torps, your responsibility" stuff coming from? People are running into torpedoes that have been visible to them from the second that they were launched and somehow it's someone else's fault?

 

It's not a difficult concept to understand.... 

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22 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Hang on a minute. So where's all this "your torps, your responsibility" stuff coming from? People are running into torpedoes that have been visible to them from the second that they were launched and somehow it's someone else's fault?

 

Because most players have the camera facing the enemy, since the enemy are suppossed to be the threat to you not your own team.

 

The other (likely) situation is that they force you into an impossible choice - either dodge the enemy torp and eat the "friendly" one, or dodge the friendly one and die to the the enemy one. Both options are you dying, something that wouldnt have happened if the friendly hadnt tried torping you too.

Lots of players when faced with such a choice will simply dodge the enemy one.

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1 hour ago, That_Other_Nid said:

Oh for [edited]sake, you turn pink for 2 games if you don't make a habit of it. Who cares who's responsibility it is. 

Some take these games way to seriously, lol and in the end the next day it is forgotten about.

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2 hours ago, who_dares_wins said:

"Your torpedoes, your responsibility."

Correct. Don't be a moron spamming his torps left, right and center just to wonder why are they hitting allies instead of enemies.

 

Also torps are faster than ships so no, they didn't run into them

 

2 hours ago, who_dares_wins said:

However, I've recently encountered two situations in which I believe that the person firing the torpedoes was not at fault, one in which I fired the torpedoes, the other in which I was hit by them.

You might think so, and yet it's still going to be the one who fired thsoe torps whos lack of attention resulted in those friendly hits

 

2 hours ago, who_dares_wins said:

First situation:

I'm in an Akizuki at the north-east edge of B point on The Atlantic. I spot an enemy North Carolina hugging the rock formation between A and B, and fire my torpedoes at him. The nearest friendly is a Fletcher, who is just heading into A to cap it (he's on the edge of A) and IIRC wasn't even in render range. As soon as I fire, he immediately turns 180 degrees and sails through the gap in the two Islands to try to point blank torpedo the NC, just managing to clip the last torpedo before it ran out of range. The rest of the torpedoes hit the NC. As he was actually attacking the NC when he was hit, there was no way he could possibly miss the friendly torpedo spread hitting it and heading toward him.

It's a torp past 6km range, you don't get any friendly-fire punishemnts for that. What's your problem there?

 

Also since he was moving to attack NC there was no reason for him to suspect a torpedo attack as NC doesn't even have them. It's easy to miss a single small white triangle, icon which usually wouldn't mean danger, in the heat of battle, especially if he's in a close range fight with an enemy ship where he's already busy with dodging & stuff like that

 

2 hours ago, who_dares_wins said:

Second situation:

I'm in a Graf Spee on North, hugging the island just west of C (D on Northern Lights). An enemy Grad Spee has beached himself on the side of the island in the cap itself, and a friendly Tirpitz is pushing in to kill him, and I accelerate, intending to go around the corner and support him. Before he fires his torpedoes, he warns me in chat "Graf, torps.". As he says this, the enemy Graf Spee's torpedoes are spotted heading near me. I misinterpret the Tirpitz's warning as being about those torpedoes, and acknowledge him using "Wilco!". He misinterprets this as the green light to fire away, as I will be positioning myself out of the way, and fires. Moving to get out of the firing arc of the enemy Graf Spee's remaining launcher, I blunder into the Tirpitz's torpedoes and die.

Miscommunication, still Derpitzs fault. He could have looked at you and seen that you aren't getting out of the way, and with that he could have skipped the torpedo launching part. Not like he needs them against a Spee

 

2 hours ago, who_dares_wins said:

Are they still the launcher's fault?

Yes

 

1 hour ago, That_Other_Nid said:

Oh for [edited]sake, you turn pink for 2 games if you don't make a habit of it. Who cares who's responsibility it is. 

I think they increased it to 3 :Smile_trollface: That's +50% games as pink damnit :Smile_veryhappy:

 

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

They could just give everyone a free Vigilance skill for "friendly" torps so that allies could see them coming.

8ilEodB.jpg

 

You already ALWAYS see allied torpedoes :fish_palm:

 

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

"they are visible from the moment of launch"

Yes, exactly this

 

7.2k battles people, give this boi a slow clap :we_need_sarcastic_clap_emoji:

 

41 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Hang on a minute. So where's all this "your torps, your responsibility" stuff coming from? People are running into torpedoes that have been visible to them from the second that they were launched and somehow it's someone else's fault?

Simple:

hUUjTQ8.png

 

16 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

force you into an impossible choice - either dodge the enemy torp and eat the "friendly" one, or dodge the friendly one and die to the the enemy one.

That's no choice at all. Always take friendly torps in that case, because no matter what it's the ally who killed you. Either by torps or by denying you dodging - results the same. Let their score show that

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6 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

Because most players have the camera facing the enemy, since the enemy are suppossed to be the threat to you not your own team.

Quite so. Which is why I didn't know "friendly" torpedoes were visible all the time. If that's the same for most people (and I suspect it is) then the first they will know about them is when the torpedo proximity warning bloke starts shouting. That happens - I think - at the normal detection range? If so, that range could be increased for "friendly" torps, as I suggested. 

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If you launch torpedos from behind an ally ship you will have an influence on the way you ally is moving that means the mere presence of this torps can screw your teammate if he dodges them he has to stop gets blapped , your fault, launch torps only if you do not impact your teammates.

It is as simple as that.

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9 hours ago, Profilus said:

Should have stopped there. And about your 1st example, never torp towards friendly DD near cap, you never know when or why he needs to turn and where.

I wouldn't say never do it, it's a risk/reward calculation. 

However, if it ends up going to crap, you have to accept full responsibility. 

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