The New Aircraft Carriers: How Best to Use Them? - Discussion Thread

[Voreian]

7 hours ago, m3c0 said:

Im wondering how many of the guys complaining here how much OP the new CVs are did really try them out, especially tier 8 and 10? Not many I guess. 

That is an assumption that could not be more arbitrary. What can be easily proven is that 90% of CCs have some kind of objection or are utterly opposed to the rework and the rest 10% just say "lets see how this will hit the live server".

7 hours ago, m3c0 said:

There are ships at those tiers which you as a CV player just can't approach, because your planes (and I mean the whole squadron!) just VAPORISE before you can even start the attack (all the health modules mounted and health captain skills selected). And we are talking here mostly about bots, which probably have no AA modules or AA-trained captains.

Totally arbitrary unless you work for Wargaming and you know the exact configuration. As far as i am concerned WG would not conduct tests between fully specced players and "noob bots", what would be the point in that??

[ras1960]

As a player since the Beta stage i think its time to find something else to play WOW is totally destroying the game so i gone DELETE all CV,s and will never play them again .

[Voreian]

51 minutes ago, Menchalior said:

Wasn't the purpose of this revamp unify game play? Instead having two separate games rts clicking for CV and arcade simulation ships? Ok... That I get, but somehow I suspect we'll be ironing out bugs and problems till next Christmas event... I mean if you want to fly planes, there World of Warplanes for that, correct? It would have been just fine to ad CV's for Bot controlling aspect in random games if CV's would have ever needed such game.

How can you unify a game when you have a whole class of ships that in their current format DETERMINE the outcome of the game  and are game changers and require a high skill ceiling so as not to be a total liability for your team? 

 

As it is now CVs are the admirals of the allied fleet if they play in a totally selfish way the team loses, if they play in a suicidal manner the team loses, if they dont play at all, the team loses (statistically proven). If they chose to focus on doing damage and not finishing off weakened ships, the team loses.......It is obvious that a 10yo or an IQ equivalent adult CANNOT PLAY CVs. It is like playing chess. Turning chess (or the cuurent CV gameplay in respect) into an arcade parody of itself will not improve the game, increase the number of players playing CVs or unify the game. Not to mention those who will suffer from nausea beacuse of all of this woobling around the map above the sea.....

 

Some of the automations introduced are good as concepts and these should have been introduced in the EXISTING FORMAT which was somewhat cluttered and over demanding when you had to manage 4-5-6-7.....squads AND your ship. 

 

It is obvious that the introduction of broken mechanics as dive bombers were and now rocket bombers, does not unify the game or the gameplay. 

 

It is obvious that team play is NOT promoted. It is not teamplay by a CV to have all his squads flying around the borders of the map trying to pick up some poor sucker and blast him out of the water. The CV has to be (and was in many cases) the surgeon of the battle too. Has to spot, AA support  and counter attack. If a CVs plays like he plays alone with bots so as to do "DAMAGE" why should a DD go in a cap and die in 1min with 3k damage?? It is like having a DD hiding behind the BBs and torping from 20km out trying to hit the enemy DD capping.

 

I have 15 tier 10 ships, and i am on the verge of unlocking the remaining, on the live sever i never played CV above Tier 7 cause i tried it in the PT and it was too tiresome, but it was interesting and demanding. You had not only to have skill but to also PREDICT where to put your skill into play. Now you will have boit fighters and AA sectors, not skill anymore but more RNG even in the case of making the correct prediction. 

 

 

 

[TataLup]

@ radiofyr & Mishipeshu & Winged_Cat_Dormant & peter_s_price ^ all others alike

 you have most certainly did not try the PT yourself, probably just watched some YT.

If you did have played PT, you have noticed that CV is so UNDER powered that if 2CVs were assigned to a Co-op all-human team, the bots team won every time !!!  With only me as human and all the rest bots, I couldn't win more than half  of the Co-op battles.

Enemy bots wiped out ally bots ( most by 1 vs 1 ram procedure) and the remaining ships (usually the 2 BB opposing the CVs) pushed unstoppable to 1 km close then sunk them ( me), despite wave after wave of successful attacks by DB or TB.  How much do you care in a BB of a torpedo hit taking out 5% of your HP ? ( max damage of torpedo 3K, AP bomb 5 k). Remember it was against bots - no AA skilled captains!

So, yes, nobody will play CV except for sheer fun of NFS type.

[Fat_Maniac]

Wow, so much hate going on here. Understandable but ....

 

WG know CV's and AA under the rework are NOT balanced. They have stated as much, but people seem to to forget this,

 

Everyone is talking about the balance we see now. But that is not going to be the final delivered result.

 

0.8.0 delivers the core CV and AA mechanics, that WG want to introduce, but it won't be balanced. Over the next few months, as real gameplay data is collected, balancing will be done. WG have said this. 

 

So, It's going to be painful, It's going to be stressful. But there is still a lot more work to come on the CV rework after 0.8.0 lands

[_CR0ME_]

Dasha should make a video about this. I uses 2 fighters for my cruisers and after reading the Text it seems useless. Maybe I don t understand it completely.

[Aotearas]

16 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

WG have said this.

WG said a lot of things.

19 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

But there is still a lot more work to come on the CV rework after 0.8.0 lands

WG had years to work on the old CV design and they didn't. #YearoftheCV

[Fat_Maniac]

5 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

WG had years to work on the old CV design and they didn't. #YearoftheCV

And the issue was they new it was going to be a huge game changer and would piss people off. They didn't know what to do or were terrified to do it. The only reason we have a rework is  that when Blitz dev started, WG had 2 stark choices, rework CV's and drop the RTS interface, or drop CV's altogether from the game. 

[Aotearas]

5 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

And the issue was they new it was going to be a huge game changer and would piss people off. They didn't know what to do or were terrified to do it. The only reason we have a rework is  that when Blitz dev started, WG had 2 stark choices, rework CV's and drop the RTS interface, or drop CV's altogether from the game. 

So improving the UI would piss people off?

Adjusting CV strike potential to reflect the tier would people off?

Making proper tutorials so newcomers aren't tossed blind into CV gameplay would piss people off?

Removing manual attacks from tier IV and V CVs despite still matching tier V vs tier VI (who not only have better aircraft but can also manual attack) in double CV games didn't piss people off?

 

 

Cute ...

[AhleBlaujacke]

" the new aircraft carrier gameplay is ready "

[m3c0]

 

8 hours ago, Verdius said:

 

I'd hate to say it but.... Git gud.
Most of the AA damage can be nearly completely avoided by not flying in a straight line like a potato. If you are having trouble approaching ships it is 99% your own fault.
Also who needs dive bombers when a properly managed Midway can just spam rockets and torps for the entire game and do way more damage anyway? Plus you can stack DoTs and getting permaflooding has never been easier.

You are talking about the long range AA. Yes, long range AA damage can be mostly avoided. But the most of the damage you take is when closing in for a drop (here you are forced to fly in straight lane or do only slight movement in order to fully aim your torps) and right after dropping your torps/bombs, when you try to leave the AA-area (even using boost and change your flight direction wont help much). Those are the 2 crucial moments where your planes take MASSIVE damage that cant be avoided. And a strong AA ship will just delete your planes if you try to attack it.

 

Thats why I said there are ships you just cant attack as a CV player. And dont forget something else - if you decide to make a U-turn and attack your target from the same side again - your planes are staying in its already activated AA-sector and will keep taking massive damage. If you fly over your target (in order to cross dopping it), you probably will get into the AA-area of other enemy ship nearby and take more damage again. Thats why I said that at high tiers the only thing you can do as a CV player is to look for isolated ships with weak AA and to make DD's life miserable.

 

As for permaflooding - you are talking about the perfect situation, where you managed to find the lone wolf with weak AA and without other teammates nearby to support him with their AA. You are just cherry-picking stuff. And I guess you know there will be lots of players who wont have a Midway with 19 skills captain right from the start of 0.8.0, right? There will be lots of CV dudes stuck at tier 8, who will be completely useless 80% of the time (because 80% of the time they will be dragged into tier 10 battles). Now go explain to them how to get a permaflooding on Montana.  

1 hour ago, Voreian said:

That is an assumption that could not be more arbitrary. What can be easily proven is that 90% of CCs have some kind of objection or are utterly opposed to the rework and the rest 10% just say "lets see how this will hit the live server".

Totally arbitrary unless you work for Wargaming and you know the exact configuration. As far as i am concerned WG would not conduct tests between fully specced players and "noob bots", what would be the point in that??

1. Im talking here only about the "OPness" of tier 8 and 10 CVs, not about the rework as a whole. I dont like the rework in general either.

2. No idea of course and you might be right. But developers should see how the basic mechanics (stock bots or at least bots without AA specialized captains) work. And that can be achieved only when you test the basic stuff first in order to have a reference. Whats the point of testing with fully upgraded bots with 19 points AA-captains if you know that only a fraction of the player base will have such ships when 0.8.0 goes live?

 

Again - I think this rework will cause much more problems than it will solve. Or maybe thats the goal? The devs just want to have some work for the next... years? I really wanted to give it a chance, but I guess Ill do couple of battles with my tier 8 CVs and I wont bother anymore. The only problems is I think I wont get a free XP refund if I play a battle with those CVs... And I really dont see why I should keep playing ships with weak AA either. The gap between ships with weak AA and such with strong AA is just too big.Wargaming is trying really hard to turn this game into World of American Warships...

 

[Fat_Maniac]

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

So improving the UI would piss people off?

Adjusting CV strike potential to reflect the tier would people off?

Making proper tutorials so newcomers aren't tossed blind into CV gameplay would piss people off?

Removing manual attacks from tier IV and V CVs despite still matching tier V vs tier VI (who not only have better aircraft but can also manual attack) in double CV games didn't piss people off?

 

 

Cute ...

 

Don't get me wrong. I think WG have made a right royal mess of this, and the issue has been bubbling since before I started this game almost 2 years ago.

 

I'm just hoping that they get this right, because they can see what impact getting it wrong will have. Get it wrong and lots of players will walk. For that reason and that reason alone I'm trying to stay positive 

[Lootboxer]

Imagine DD 10-20 x faster that you can't kill or even if you kill it when he does not know WSAD he will respawn a minut later farming DoT on you till you die. All you can do is to pray that he will pick your teammate not you. Probably he will go for the first spotted target. Now this will be camping like never before. All including DDs camping around the only ship with really good AA - CV. 

[Praetorias]

So as per my original post on page 1 am furious about this but I reread it and it gets worse.

 

carrier recovery time from fire flood and incapacitation are near non existent, they can via autopilot reverse so easy controls there, easier evasion.

 

I bet they still move with speed and agility of dd. 

 

The balance towards the already OP carrier has so heavily swung to carriers its shocking. Lets make the carriers hover,  why don’t you add cloaks like Star Trek to the planes, oh wait, you have.... now sneak attacks can be made around mountains with planes, ships will not see them coming and when they get their their AA will be worth s*** anyway.

 

if you are sorting carriers out, taking into consideration line of sight, tell me how radar works through all terrain, how detection of other ships when within small km distance when each ship is either side of mountain and not using radar or sonar.  How does that work????

 

nevermind, at least carriers have been “sorted”

 

before - immune carrier, border hugging, speed of dd, no threat of damage to it, torp drops at point blank range OP ness. 

 

after change - might as well give them win each game without playing.

 

I look forward to quiting out of match every time a carrier is on other side. People can blame the developers, is not our problem if we decide to quit out each time. Its called protesting!

[philsta]

I would guess that the vast majority of players of WOWS would suggest the best way to play a CV is to leave it in port or better still never buy or play one, they are rather toxic to the game and I very much doubt you will ever be able to balance them, after all they did pretty much end the age of the battleship. It was a very bad idea introducing them in the first place...

[Beyosu]

Instead of improving a system that worked well and make it more balanced and fair for everyone. They make a 180º turn and they change it for a horrible system for children.

CVs are pure and hard strategy, they have become bots, mixed with shabby World of Warplanes, so that clumsy and lazy players do not cry or struggle to learn to play with them and against them.

Tomorrow the children will complain that the cruisers are destroyed by a shot and the game will have to be modified, giving the cruisers some aberrant special ability so that they will not be destroyed by a shot, and the children will not cry.

The only thing that companies do is to destroy the games and break the communities of players with these design policies.

 

Each generation worse and weaker than the previous one. Crying

[shackcat]

Firstly, I like the CV rework and i believe this is the first major change in game play since Carriers where launched.  A large number of players are complaining about the current changes but have not actually played them on the Test Server and the other complainers just don't like CV.  Yes currently the AA could be over powered that that will only become evident when this CV rework goes live and we the players have had real time to interact with the new changes.

[FukushuNL]

 Some people need to get their reasoning for hating the CV rework straight.

 

For example: "after change - might as well give them win each game without playing."  Don't both teams have a CV if one team got it? Why get angry over that?

 

And: "The only thing that companies do is to destroy the games and break the communities of players with these design policies. Each generation worse and weaker than the previous one. Crying" What have the other Devs to do with this game's CV rework? 

 

 

[Praetorias]

I got banned from talking in their twitch feed LMAO, they do not like criticism.

[LOZFFVII]

Ugh, why did I decide to look at this thread?

It's just the same old 'delete carriers'/'CV rework should be stopped' vocal minorities echoing off of each other, failing to keep their toxicity in check.

 

The only person here with even a modicum of sense is @Fat_Maniac.

1. The CV rework IS NOT going to be finished in a single patch.
2. The CV rework IS NOT going to stay exactly how it is on PTS, it will fluctuate over the next few patches (and micropatches) until some form of balance is found.
3. The CV rework IS NOT based on the game going to console - different studios are involved (they said as much in that 50-odd minute waterline video).
4. The CV rework IS NOT about 'dumbing down the game' - are you guys really so arrogant as to suggest that just because you play RTS and others don't that you're smarter than them?

[anonym_oag7EGX8YcWg]

I like this game, but I already lost 8 hours of gameplay, because some "genious" in WG forgot to add a log out button in the steam version of the game for the players who haven't registered yet, but who already have a profile in the same time, so I couldn't link my profile with my old WoT (WG) account, and I will never be able to log out my unregistered profile through steam till the end of times... No problem, I started it over... Sorry, this was just useless whining heres my real problem. I wanted to play a CV and read the tutorial. 

 

The person who wrote that article can not speak english or do not play the game, or the worst: maybe both. I am a new player, I havent remapped my keybinds, didn't change anytihng in the settings. This is a quote from the article:

 

"In the new concept, keyboard and mouse become equally important tools for controlling your aircraft. To select a squadron, you need to press keys [1], [2], or [3]. Upon pressing the selected key the second time, the associated squadron will take off. [1] launches a new type of aircraft—attack aircraft, [2]—torpedo bombers, [3]—dive bombers. Each squadron launched will only be composed of a single type of aircraft."

 

- I can press the selected key a hundred or a thousand [edited]times the planes will NEVER going to take off. They take off ONLY if I press the "F" key.

- WASD never in any [edited]camera view or map mode, with anything selected be it the ship itself or the planes on deck, in midflight, in any situation NEVER change the speed or course of the planes. These keys only control my ship even if a plane is selected on deck, midflight etc.

 

I did not read the other parts of that useless text. So, please can someone write an article or a short guide about how the hell can I control the wings manually? In english with the right keys if possible... Thank you in advance!

 

And congratz for the man who wrote that article with the crap keybinds... extremely helpful....... next time you can do it in ancient sumer as well it will not take away anything from its value.. 

 

 

[Voreian]

2 hours ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

Ugh, why did I decide to look at this thread?

It's just the same old 'delete carriers'/'CV rework should be stopped' vocal minorities echoing off of each other, failing to keep their toxicity in check.

 

The only person here with even a modicum of sense is @Fat_Maniac.

1. The CV rework IS NOT going to be finished in a single patch.
2. The CV rework IS NOT going to stay exactly how it is on PTS, it will fluctuate over the next few patches (and micropatches) until some form of balance is found.
3. The CV rework IS NOT based on the game going to console - different studios are involved (they said as much in that 50-odd minute waterline video).
4. The CV rework IS NOT about 'dumbing down the game' - are you guys really so arrogant as to suggest that just because you play RTS and others don't that you're smarter than them?

Toxicity is in check dear co-player we are just being self-sarcastic with WG and its tendency to fix a mistake with more mistakes and more fixes.

 

Apparently you fail to understand this simple notion which is what is being forward by ALL players and thread contributors.

 

By the way i am the customer here and not the guinea pig to be undergoing endless nerve-racking test and development cycles when basic elements of the game need "reworking" such as the constant memory bleed, the random client crashes and many many more wornderful thinks.

 

Finally and as far as the RTS comment is concerned i just want to mention the following: a considerable portion of the player base are older "kids" in their 30s, 40s or even 50s, Average age in my clan is OVER 35 years of age btw.

 

All these people have enjoyed legendary titles of the past but have chosen to move forward to something more complex and mind boggling (at least on paper) which in many occasions may be frustrating and toxic. However, nothing compares to the toxicity of many popular titles where you enter the game as a naked, half-savage mongoloid and grind your way up to be just a pimp who preys on the new mongoloids that join the game. Imagine you port being raided by your fellow players and all your hard earned ships and other goodies to be looted away. 

 

No thank you, i am guilty as charged for arrogance or for whatever you may call it but thats it how i like my game to feel like. 

[Guns_Donovan]

Its not a good enough reason  to push forward with a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it. !!

[Pikkozoikum]

16 hours ago, Ysterpyp said:

Still waiting on Information about compensation

 

[LOZFFVII]

2 hours ago, Voreian said:

Finally and as far as the RTS comment is concerned i just want to mention the following: a considerable portion of the player base are older "kids" in their 30s, 40s or even 50s, Average age in my clan is OVER 35 years of age btw.

 

All these people have enjoyed legendary titles of the past but have chosen to move forward to something more complex and mind boggling (at least on paper) which in many occasions may be frustrating and toxic. However, nothing compares to the toxicity of many popular titles where you enter the game as a naked, half-savage mongoloid and grind your way up to be just a pimp who preys on the new mongoloids that join the game. Imagine you port being raided by your fellow players and all your hard earned ships and other goodies to be looted away. 

 

No thank you, i am guilty as charged for arrogance or for whatever you may call it but thats it how i like my game to feel like. 

Your metaphor (or is it a simile?) is extremely clumsy and confusing, and I'm not entirely certain what you are trying to say with it.

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Finally and as far as the RTS comment is concerned i just want to mention the following: a considerable portion of the player base are older "kids" in their 30s, 40s or even 50s, Average age in my clan is OVER 35 years of age btw.

Okay, so you guys are mature gamers.

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All these people have enjoyed legendary titles of the past but have chosen to move forward to something more complex and mind boggling (at least on paper) which in many occasions may be frustrating and toxic.

You are definitely talking about playing RTSs here.

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However, nothing compares to the toxicity of many popular titles where you enter the game as a naked, half-savage mongoloid and grind your way up to be just a pimp who preys on the new mongoloids that join the game

Now you're talking about...that Conan game where you start the game completely naked?

Okay, sure, I expect that one's pretty toxic, but what has that got to do with RTSs?

Or are you saying that playing PvP RTSs is like starting as a naked mongoloid...and becoming a top mongoloid to prey on the nakeds...? (which is basically you saying you don't want to be challenged, you just want to prey on those with lesser skills)

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Imagine you port being raided by your fellow players and all your hard earned ships and other goodies to be looted away. 

So, now you're comparing that Conan game with the RTS carriers being replaced by the rework...I think?

Or...you're just saying that the rework is somehow 'looting' you of your RTS gameplay...and that you blame the players who will be attracted to the new playstyle...I mean, really?

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No thank you, i am guilty as charged for arrogance or for whatever you may call it but thats it how i like my game to feel like. 

...Uh...what is how you like your games to feel like?

Like RTSs?

Like a naked mongoloid grinding to become top mongoloid?

Like people looting your port?

 

Can you clarify exactly what you're talking about, please?