Z52 needs some love

[hellbolt]

Well -i recently unlocked it and played a couple of games in variousa tiers (MM sometimes dropped  a couple of tier 8 ships).

 

When playing Z-46 was fun, this ship (Z-52) seems to be underperforming:

1. Cannot get into torp firing range since there are a couple of ships with 10+km radars (recently was running from Moskvas often)

2. CV harrassing DD's - even with staying away from caps under protection of other ships AA still can do a little against aistrikes. CV's often prioritise DD's as soft easy prey. There were games where i shot down 25-30 planes - but so what? Another 30 came and knocked out the ship.

3. Z-52 seem to suffer from power creep - a lot of other DD's appeared and Daring seem to take its place now with more torps and better firepower. Also Japanese "gunboats" appeared, not mentionning soviet high tier DD's with heal and British line with long lasting Hydro's and good guns. Now i noticed new French line is created with the increadeably fast DD's. WG shouldn;t make WOT mistakes when some lines were simply rotting when new ships appeared with far better capabilities.

 

What should be improved:

 

1. Torp range (no 10,5 km - to 12 km maybe), they deal low damage but should be quick and have higher range. Especially now when flodding damage was nerfed.

2. Guns reload - from 4 to 3,5 maybe,  a lot of ships of the same type outguns Z-52 now.

3. Manouverability rate slight increase - it is hard to run from airstrike currently

[_Teob_]

I think that the z52 would benefit from any buffs of any kind. By that I mean that I am not even sure it matters what you do to it because it's so far behind.

 

[hellbolt]

I don't know what to say but Shimakaze seems to be winning gunfights with Z52 :|

This so called "german AP" is not that good anymore. Slight angle and all bounces - even from DD.

 

 

[_Teob_]

8 hours ago, hellbolt said:

I don't know what to say but Shimakaze seems to be winning gunfights with Z52 :|

This so called "german AP" is not that good anymore. Slight angle and all bounces - even from DD.

 

 

It makes sense that it's losing fights against the Shima because they have the same DPM.

 

And the AP was  a myth since the beginning. 

Basically the way it works is like this:

German DD AP is good

IF the ship you are firing is fat enough so you don't just get overpens

IF they don't angle at all

IF they are close enough to be able to land all the shots in their mid section

Etc.

[DasTongle]

Her concept seem so senseless, the 10,5 km torps are a bit underwhelming because 10km radar, she has just the 100m to much concealment and the guns are semi meh. it is a bit sad indeed, the question is what to touch of it.

[Taliesn]

I can't see what's wrong with her tbh. Yes, torps are a bit on the anemic side damage wise but 10,5 is usually enough and reload is excellent.

Guns are fine and you shouldn't lose a fight with a Shima if you play your cards right. There is no other tier X DD I feel more comfortable hunting than Shima. Rpf, locate, close, smoke+hydro.

[_Teob_]

3 hours ago, Taliesn said:

I can't see what's wrong with her tbh. Yes, torps are a bit on the anemic side damage wise but 10,5 is usually enough and reload is excellent.

Guns are fine and you shouldn't lose a fight with a Shima if you play your cards right. There is no other tier X DD I feel more comfortable hunting than Shima. Rpf, locate, close, smoke+hydro.

 

I mean, the ship has been trailing all other DDs as far as dmg and kills go for a long time now. 

 

The torpedo reload is excellent but torpedo damage is awful and on top of that flooding has been nerfed.

 

The guns are NOT fine at all. Why would you not lose a fight against a shima since they have the same DPM? Yes if you manage to do a smoke+hydro combo on a shima that is sailing straight at you then yeah, maybe you can do some dmg to it. Not kill it, mind you, because any DD can just run away.

 

[Taliesn]

On 6/14/2019 at 6:32 PM, _Teob_ said:

 

I mean, the ship has been trailing all other DDs as far as dmg and kills go for a long time now. 

 

The torpedo reload is excellent but torpedo damage is awful and on top of that flooding has been nerfed.

 

The guns are NOT fine at all. Why would you not lose a fight against a shima since they have the same DPM? Yes if you manage to do a smoke+hydro combo on a shima that is sailing straight at you then yeah, maybe you can do some dmg to it. Not kill it, mind you, because any DD can just run away.

 

 

Yes, it is hard to damage with her as she is purely a DD hunter, and you probably need a couple of runs against a Shima unless he's a potato. But kill him you will, unless he abandons the cap, in which case, job done anyway.

 

Not that I would mind a small buff to her guns or torps but I enjoy her a lot more than Shima, whose torps hit like a truck, IF they hit at all. Dunno mate, maybe it's that I like DDs with hydro and it's a ship that works fine for me. Doing ranked with her and I can't complain, although you can forget about keeping your star in a loss because, well, damage is all that matters.

 

 

[_Teob_]

1 hour ago, Taliesn said:

 

Yes, it is hard to damage with her as she is purely a DD hunter, and you probably need a couple of runs against a Shima unless he's a potato. But kill him you will, unless he abandons the cap, in which case, job done anyway.

 

Not that I would mind a small buff to her guns or torps but I enjoy her a lot more than Shima, whose torps hit like a truck, IF they hit at all. Dunno mate, maybe it's that I like DDs with hydro and it's a ship that works fine for me. Doing ranked with her and I can't complain, although you can forget about keeping your star in a loss because, well, damage is all that matters.

 

 

 

The fact that you like it and do well in it doesn't change the fact that its damage and win rate are terrible overall.

 

I have 1400+ games in the Z52 and I played in ranked a while back as well. I don't think I ever dropped below 60-62% WR in it. I do well in it, so I know where you're coming from.

 

The question is, do I do better in it than I do in some of the other DDs, to which the answer is a resounding "no".

 

And then the stats are pretty clear cut on the issue - it is the worst performing DD in several metrics.

I just pulled up WoWs numbers for this (which isn't entirely accurate but it's a good indicator of the situation).

 

 

So its WR is higher only than the two original DDs which have been power crept like crazy.

Other than that "silver lining", it is dead last in damage done, lowest average kill rate coupled with the worst kill/death ratio and is second to last in avg experience earned.

 

Seriously, under 40k avg dmg for a t10 ship is pathetic.

 

And before anyone points out that WoWs stats aggregates all the data, the ship's recent stats are actually worse and you can look for yourself on Maplesyrup

Just some highlights: a below 35k average damage and a sub 48% WR - great ship indeed.

Past 2 months data on the EU server for t10 DDs:

 

The Z52 is dead last in every relevant metric. I honestly believe there is no debate here - the ship needs a bit of help.

 

[Taliesn]

27 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

 

The fact that you like it and do well in it doesn't change the fact that its damage and win rate are terrible overall.

 

I have 1400+ games in the Z52 and I played in ranked a while back as well. I don't think I ever dropped below 60-62% WR in it. I do well in it, so I know where you're coming from.

 

The question is, do I do better in it than I do in some of the other DDs, to which the answer is a resounding "no".

 

And then the stats are pretty clear cut on the issue - it is the worst performing DD in several metrics.

I just pulled up WoWs numbers for this (which isn't entirely accurate but it's a good indicator of the situation).

 

 

So its WR is higher only than the two original DDs which have been power crept like crazy.

Other than that "silver lining", it is dead last in damage done, lowest average kill rate coupled with the worst kill/death ratio and is second to last in avg experience earned.

 

Seriously, under 40k avg dmg for a t10 ship is pathetic.

 

 And before anyone points out that WoWs stats aggregates all the data, the ship's recent stats are actually worse and you can look for yourself on Maplesyrup

Just some highlights: a below 35k average damage and a sub 48% WR - great ship indeed.

Past 2 months data on the EU server for t10 DDs:

 

The Z52 is dead last in every relevant metric. I honestly believe there is no debate here - the ship needs a bit of help.

 

 

She's not the easiest of DDs to play, that's for sure. How can a Grozovoi have better base capture stat I cannot fathom.

 

And no doubt me liking her colours my perception. She's 4th out of 8th in WR for my tier X DDs, 3rd in damage and 1st (by a long margin) in PR. And yes, when you take out cap control she definately feels underwhelming.

 

Haha, ok you've convinced me. Roll on the buff! 

[Kaput_Mundi]

I would dare to say that all German lines could use a bit of love... 

[surfer_gr]

i love my z cause sure its ap is great specially vs crusers and bbs lols with its reload rate you can do some damage still vs dds to slow i think its hydro smoke hunt thing is to keep the dd spotted for your teamates to finish the job than actual kill a dd lols anyway i prefer to play my khaba which is excellent except when rng crap pops in of a montana for example shouitng a salvo at you from 21 kms away and 3/4 of your hp gone LOLs

 

z needs speed and a slight torp damage buff cause 2s sets of fours  with anemic damage do only scratch tier10 bbs lols

 

i will stick to my khaba LOLs fun to play

 

 

 

 

[LemonidasM]

All german ships are underpowered with the blessings of Stalin Developers. Besides they only care about money .

[ollonborre]

So I dusted of my Z-52 recently and slotted BFT instead of TAE that I had previously and it did help a bit. Now the gunpower is atleast not anemic and the AA is half decent. But yeah the Z needs something. Torp damage is really low for tier 10 and the range is lacking (still a bit better than Daring but the Daring got so much else going for it so it's a moot point), but at the same time reload and speed is top notch with good concealment.

 

I don't know, a torp range buff to 11-12 km and a reduced fuze time on the AP so you can atleast use that high AP damage on most targets would be a decent start.

[pudelosha]

Z-52 should get torpedo alfa buff. Her striking power is nearly the same as tier VI T-61.

[Mercurial_Swift]

*Laughs in Daring*

[hellbolt]

Recently these new French DD's are coming: they have much better torp reload (75 kt speed!) and default DD speeds at some crazy rates. They have much slower gun reload but better shells and more guns per boat.

 

Another power creep stepping in for Z-line. I'd say that Z-46 and Z-52 - they are both almost the same (different turret arrangement) but magically Z-52 has worse camo. What is more - this "legendary upgrade" for Z-52 is one of the most useless since player is getting just 5% camo decrease.

 

Recently had gun duel with this new Magador DD in my Z-46 and lost it easly. My shots were mostly overpenetrating - his were getting full or close to full damage.

 

This entire line needs improvement.

[AlphaBaboon]

Alle 23/1/2019 alle 13:33, wilkatis_LV ha scritto:

What I find rather amusing is that the 3 most played DDs - Shima, Gearing and Z - are the 3 worst performing ones. Every category, except that Shima now outperforms the nerfed YY in kills per battle. Potato power!

 

That leads to me questioning if the ship is underperforming because it's weak (it might be, as you pointed out), or is it so simply because of the amount of clueless potatoes playing it? But that we'll never know, we can just speculate

I love gunboats, so my choice n. 1 is always Khaba. But I also like kitakaze and I hope to get to Harugumo soon. I'm pretty interested in the Jutland and Daring, but never played RN dd so far.
All these ships are the least played.

It seems nowadays than using khaba is a very unusual choice, since it's very rare that I find another one in the enemy team, which is often thick with shima and gearing first. 
On paper, they should be easier to play for potatoes. A potato playing shima believes that he can just randomly launch torps once every 2 mins and then he sit and have his beer. The average gearing potatoe player thinks he can be an indipendent player since he has outstanding AA and overall a balance ship, but he rushes to far and usually get deleted by cruisers and gunboats.

I think that both shima and gearing are good ships, although I never played them. But it's like giving a Magnum to a monkey and expect he can do anything but firing on his own feet.

[AlphaBaboon]

Alle 23/1/2019 alle 12:24, _Teob_ ha scritto:

Hi everyone!

 

So the short of it is: I think the Z52 needs a bit of love.

 

I may be biased here as the ship was my favorite for a long time and I still think of it fondly but I can't help but notice that due to the abundance of radar and the introduction of much scarier ships, its role has been greatly diminished and its gimmick is borderline useless now.

 

So for those of you who don't own it, the Z52 has very low gun DPM with particularly low HE dmg but higher than average AP dmg. Its torpedoes also do comparatively low damage and the torpedo DPM is somewhat average and you can only launch 8 of them at a time (2X4) although it does get a low reload in return.

But its main gimmick is the long range (6km) hydro. The whole point of the ship was that it was the absolute king of caps for a while.

It could never outright outgun its competition but being able to use the smoke + hydro combination often gave you an edge.

 

Today however due to the multiple radar ships introduced recently (Kronstadt, Stalingrad, the whole USN light cruiser line) and then the Daring which fills a very similar role, the Z52 (or Big Z as I like to call it) has been rendered somewhat obsolete.

I think that it could really use a bit of love. Possibly slightly higher HE damage - I am not 100% sure how it could be improved.

 

Below is t10 DD performance for the past 2 months with the z52 coming in dead last in WR, damage, XP and ships destroyed. Basically if there's a statistic out there, the z52 is the worst at it.

I played the Zerstorer line back in my old previous account. It is solid if played correctly but overall you are not really excellent at anything and you strive to find your role. Your Hydro is fantastic in caps against other dd but if you start firing in a knife fight against a gunboat you are dead. You are not really competitive with torps, despite your good reloads, you are not competitive with aa and manouvrability. Its just... OK, but no more.
I really would like WG to give some buffs to the german dd line.

On the contrary, gunboats simply [edited]dominates, Khaba, Haru and Daring, the least pick of any new player. Perhaps because the average potatoe just looking at their stats cant really realize the potential, but he rather turns to a shimakaze saying: "OHHH 15 [edited]torpedoes!! That's awesome!" Then he just spray it randomly and nothing happens, he got outspotted and deleted. End of the sad story.

I am an ultra fun of Khabarovsk, so this stats really support my thesis that it is indeed among the best ships of this game for her class.

[hellbolt]

In this rank season Z-52 is usually easy prey for Smolensks and other ships with long range radar

[Hugh_Ruka]

Hmm ... currently in the Z-46 and I am enjoying the crap out of that ship ... but I hardly ever do DD hunting in one, I leave that to cruisers and CV, I just assist with detection and hydro. OTOH the short torp reload is nuts. they reload in one smoke duration with time to spare.

 

Is the Z-52 that much worse ? I do think it's more of the same, so not really an upgrade, but the Z-46 is already good ...

[_Teob_]

On 1/20/2020 at 2:22 PM, Hugh_Ruka said:

Hmm ... currently in the Z-46 and I am enjoying the crap out of that ship ... but I hardly ever do DD hunting in one, I leave that to cruisers and CV, I just assist with detection and hydro. OTOH the short torp reload is nuts. they reload in one smoke duration with time to spare.

 

Is the Z-52 that much worse ? I do think it's more of the same, so not really an upgrade, but the Z-46 is already good ...

 

Yes the Z52 is sort of a downgrade over the Z46. You get the same guns and torpedoes but worse stealth, worse manoeuvrability and tougher matchmaking. In return you get a better hydro. Overall I would say it's not worth it.

In a nutshell, the Z46 is an OK t9 DD while the Z52 is a sub par t10 DD.

[hellbolt]

Each update this ship is getting more and more hit by power creep.

 

• Increasing amount of long range radars (Moskva, Stalingrads etc)
• HE spammers like Smolensks, other DD's with better stats and guns e.g Gunboats of Jap and UK + new French ones
• Low amount of torps (short reload does not compensate it), pretty much useless legendary upgrade
• Pretty situational guns (AP works on perfectly broadside targets only)

[Duka_Srb]

This was my favorite DD overall but now, after all this radars and machinegun cruisers, it just sucks. This ship needs torpedo dmg buff,  ffs it uses tier 7 torpedoes in tier 10 games!

[Panocek]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:31 PM, Duka_Srb said:

This was my favorite DD overall but now, after all this radars and machinegun cruisers, it just sucks. This ship needs torpedo dmg buff,  ffs it uses tier 7 torpedoes in tier 10 games!

And what you would be willing to trade for? Because Z-52 is purposefully kept mediocre to "balance" 6km hydro.