_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #1 Posted January 23, 2019 Hi everyone! So the short of it is: I think the Z52 needs a bit of love. I may be biased here as the ship was my favorite for a long time and I still think of it fondly but I can't help but notice that due to the abundance of radar and the introduction of much scarier ships, its role has been greatly diminished and its gimmick is borderline useless now. So for those of you who don't own it, the Z52 has very low gun DPM with particularly low HE dmg but higher than average AP dmg. Its torpedoes also do comparatively low damage and the torpedo DPM is somewhat average and you can only launch 8 of them at a time (2X4) although it does get a low reload in return. But its main gimmick is the long range (6km) hydro. The whole point of the ship was that it was the absolute king of caps for a while. It could never outright outgun its competition but being able to use the smoke + hydro combination often gave you an edge. Today however due to the multiple radar ships introduced recently (Kronstadt, Stalingrad, the whole USN light cruiser line) and then the Daring which fills a very similar role, the Z52 (or Big Z as I like to call it) has been rendered somewhat obsolete. I think that it could really use a bit of love. Possibly slightly higher HE damage - I am not 100% sure how it could be improved. Below is t10 DD performance for the past 2 months with the z52 coming in dead last in WR, damage, XP and ships destroyed. Basically if there's a statistic out there, the z52 is the worst at it. 15 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BYOB] Aragathor Players 7,047 posts 32,213 battles Report post #2 Posted January 23, 2019 Let me save you some time and give you the official WG response to any calls for ship buffs based on public stats: Quote We have looked at our secret stats, which we won't share with you, and determined that the ship can rot in hell. We don't care about its performance since in our opinion it's ok for it to be not fun to play. Also, give us money. 2 12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THROW] wilkatis_LV [THROW] Players 5,061 posts 10,702 battles Report post #3 Posted January 23, 2019 What I find rather amusing is that the 3 most played DDs - Shima, Gearing and Z - are the 3 worst performing ones. Every category, except that Shima now outperforms the nerfed YY in kills per battle. Potato power! That leads to me questioning if the ship is underperforming because it's weak (it might be, as you pointed out), or is it so simply because of the amount of clueless potatoes playing it? But that we'll never know, we can just speculate 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #4 Posted January 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said: What I find rather amusing is that the 3 most played DDs - Shima, Gearing and Z - are the 3 worst performing ones. Every category, except that Shima now outperforms the nerfed YY in kills per battle. Potato power! That leads to me questioning if the ship is underperforming because it's weak (it might be, as you pointed out), or is it so simply because of the amount of clueless potatoes playing it? But that we'll never know, we can just speculate I thought a lot about that before I made the topic. And the conclusion I reached is this. Yes, there probably is a bit of sample bias here but the fact that the Z is doing MUCH worse than the shima and gearing makes me think I am right in saying it's weaker than it should be. What I mean is even relatively speaking, in this "special" subcategory of most played DDs, the Z stands out as particularly terrible. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RUFL] Jagod Players 291 posts 5,100 battles Report post #5 Posted January 23, 2019 Shima and Gearing already received some buffs, which might have helped elevate their performance above that of Z52. However, considering how long it took those two to get buffed.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[STARS] LeSnoet [STARS] Beta Tester 189 posts 20,599 battles Report post #6 Posted January 23, 2019 I agree with the OP on the Z-52, in random matches. A small buff in terms of manouvreable or acceleration would be more then welcome. It really needs to get on a diet. (Heal party? ) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #7 Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, LeSnoet said: I agree with the OP on the Z-52, in random matches. A small buff in terms of manouvreable or acceleration would be more then welcome. It really needs to get on a diet. (Heal party? ) Not quite sure what should be done to it. I am still at the phase where I want to draw attention to the fact that I consider it underpowered. Once most people are made aware of that then we can potentially discuss solutions. I can't believe that 35k average damage number. That's a third of a BBs health. 2 fires worth of damage on a BB. And we know it's not only DD damage by its average XP. It's all a bit pathetic really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[MORIA] quickr Players 1,953 posts 25,221 battles Report post #8 Posted January 23, 2019 Z52 was first tier 10 DD I've unlocked. I think it's also my most played silver ship. Dunno why really, my stats in it are terrible... Since than I've unlocked almost every tier 10 DD and every single one was more fun to play than Z52. Which is weird, cos on paper long range hydro + smoke sound strong and I love playing Loyang, but can't make Z52 work. I agree it needs something. A buff. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TVO] _Montagne Players 57 posts 15,852 battles Report post #9 Posted January 23, 2019 Great, now seems like WGs next move will be to completely nerf Daring, seeing that win rate... And I agree I felt underwhelming in my Z52, stats are good and everything but its getting worse. Maybe a small reload buff to compensate for the lower he damage along with a smaller turning radius should make it feel better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #10 Posted January 24, 2019 7 hours ago, _Montagne said: Great, now seems like WGs next move will be to completely nerf Daring, seeing that win rate... And I agree I felt underwhelming in my Z52, stats are good and everything but its getting worse. Maybe a small reload buff to compensate for the lower he damage along with a smaller turning radius should make it feel better. I mean, the Daring is doing a bit too well. It may be like some people suggest, that it’s played by lots of really good players at the moment but it remains to be seen. Back to the topic at hand, is this the first time we all sort of agree? Has a miracle happened? Do we actually all think the Z52 is underwhelming to put it mildly? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THROW] wilkatis_LV [THROW] Players 5,061 posts 10,702 battles Report post #11 Posted January 24, 2019 45 minutes ago, _Teob_ said: I mean, the Daring is doing a bit too well. It may be like some people suggest, that it’s played by lots of really good players at the moment but it remains to be seen. Yeah, it should still fall in the next 3...6 months. After that we'll see if she's actually overperforming or no 47 minutes ago, _Teob_ said: Back to the topic at hand, is this the first time we all sort of agree? Has a miracle happened? Do we actually all think the Z52 is underwhelming to put it mildly? That doesn't sound like forums to me, that doesn't happen here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #12 Posted January 24, 2019 14 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said: Yeah, it should still fall in the next 3...6 months. After that we'll see if she's actually overperforming or no Problem is that its win rate keeps going up. We'll see though. I suspect that CVs in 8.0 wil hit it quite hard. Both literally and figuratively 14 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said: That doesn't sound like forums to me, that doesn't happen here I know right? How bad does a ship need to be for the forumites to all go "yeah, it's kinda terrible"?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THROW] wilkatis_LV [THROW] Players 5,061 posts 10,702 battles Report post #13 Posted January 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, _Teob_ said: Problem is that its win rate keeps going up. We'll see though. I suspect that CVs in 8.0 wil hit it quite hard. Both literally and figuratively Well, the way I see that one is And yeah, with the release of the new CVs... RIP DDs, you won't be missed 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #14 Posted January 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said: Well, the way I see that one is And yeah, with the release of the new CVs... RIP DDs, you won't be missed Meh *laughs in full AA Grozovoi* 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[AMAT] Redfoxrommy Beta Tester 220 posts 12,247 battles Report post #15 Posted January 25, 2019 z-52 torps dmg is bad .İ mean they are realy bad . they does 6-7k dmg to enemy ships. They arent super fast . Only they reload fast .their range also make them hard to use . When i am try to use them i allways radar. in turninig to escape lost most of my hp becose its obese and takes good dmg from ap shells. Yes ap is good us boardside dds melts by it. but he and firechance bad . He has no dd turn or rudder. some cru have better . her smoke and hydro works some accoitins in mid and later game. so i figure out if you want to be succesful ( i mean over 55winrate 40kdmgave like me ) you have to see mid-late time of a battle . i think he needs some sort of buff. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[OGHF2] Hugh_Ruka Players 4,054 posts 5,642 battles Report post #16 Posted January 25, 2019 +2km torpedo range ? That's what I would like in the ship. That makes the short torpedo reload more usefull without directly upsetting the gun balance against other DDs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RUFL] Jagod Players 291 posts 5,100 battles Report post #17 Posted January 29, 2019 Just introduce subs already, then the 6km hydro will put her on top of the pack again The point being: the gadget Z52 buys by sacrificing raw dpm is obviously very meta-dependent. Disclaimer: I am only at z46 but here are my theorycrafting thoughts: Increasing her raw gun dpm could - like mentioned before - easily make her too dominant as soon as the meta favours long range hydro again. So one approach would be to make her more consistent in the other things that make her stand out. As such maybe a Krupp buff could make her AP more usable vs. BB superstructures by not needing a perfect broadside anymore. That would result in more overpens vs DDs though, so not sure if it is a good idea... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #18 Posted January 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jagod said: Just introduce subs already, then the 6km hydro will put her on top of the pack again The point being: the gadget Z52 buys by sacrificing raw dpm is obviously very meta-dependent. Disclaimer: I am only at z46 but here are my theorycrafting thoughts: Increasing her raw gun dpm could - like mentioned before - easily make her too dominant as soon as the meta favours long range hydro again. So one approach would be to make her more consistent in the other things that make her stand out. As such maybe a Krupp buff could make her AP more usable vs. BB superstructures by not needing a perfect broadside anymore. That would result in more overpens vs DDs though, so not sure if it is a good idea... The Z46 is a better ship right now. Same torpedoes as the z52 (500m less range but that's not really anything) and the z46 turret layout is much better for a ship with bad dpm as it's better for kiting away. And it's stealthier and more agile. So if you think the z46 is not phenomenal, the z52 will be totally underwhelming. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RUFL] Jagod Players 291 posts 5,100 battles Report post #19 Posted January 29, 2019 Oh I enjoy my Z46 alot My comment was regarding Z52, though from a purely numbercrunching perspective as I have not played it. Still, this topic promises to be an interesting one, so I wanted to add another possibility to the disscusion to (hopefully) keep it going Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #20 Posted January 29, 2019 52 minutes ago, Jagod said: Oh I enjoy my Z46 alot My comment was regarding Z52, though from a purely numbercrunching perspective as I have not played it. Still, this topic promises to be an interesting one, so I wanted to add another possibility to the disscusion to (hopefully) keep it going Yes, no sorry, I didn't mean to sound unappreciative. In fact I am quite grateful to every one contributing. I just wanted to say that the z46 is not in such a dire spot as the z52 is. A bit off topic, I am shocked that everyone agrees here. Like not a single dissenting opinion so far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RUFL] Jagod Players 291 posts 5,100 battles Report post #21 Posted January 29, 2019 No worries, I also didn't mean to give the impression that I was complaining about Z46 in any way. But now that you mentioned it the comparison between the two ships very nicely demonstrates how much Z52 pays for access to its long range hydro. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infiriel Players 508 posts 8,055 battles Report post #22 Posted January 29, 2019 24.01.2019 o 18:15, _Teob_ napisał: Meh *laughs in full AA Grozovoi* Laughs in Asashio. Oh wait... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] loppantorkel Players 4,506 posts 15,942 battles Report post #23 Posted January 30, 2019 Z-52 seems pretty sucky, yes. I'm still at Maass and in no hurry to advance. I think I'm having most fun in Shima of the tier 10 dds tbh. Not sure what kind of buff Z-52 could have.. The hydro makes it pretty terrifying against other dds should it receive a buff to gun power. I doubt that would be a good solution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Teob_ Players 1,625 posts 14,901 battles Report post #24 Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, loppantorkel said: Z-52 seems pretty sucky, yes. I'm still at Maass and in no hurry to advance. I think I'm having most fun in Shima of the tier 10 dds tbh. Not sure what kind of buff Z-52 could have.. The hydro makes it pretty terrifying against other dds should it receive a buff to gun power. I doubt that would be a good solution. The problem is that currently it gives up too much for the hydro. A daring for example will quite happily rush you in your smoke while you are hydro-ing him. It will eat a torpedo and still kill you. I am not quite sure what you are meant to do in that situation. I don't think a small gun buff would make it OP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BYOB] Aragathor Players 7,047 posts 32,213 battles Report post #25 Posted January 30, 2019 Don't worry guys, starting from tomorrow the Z-52 will be equalized with other T10 DDs. It will just be as obsolete as them in the new perma-spotted CV meta. Reddit has NA guys posting their DD experience already. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
