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_Teob_

Z52 needs some love

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Hi everyone!

 

So the short of it is: I think the Z52 needs a bit of love.

 

I may be biased here as the ship was my favorite for a long time and I still think of it fondly but I can't help but notice that due to the abundance of radar and the introduction of much scarier ships, its role has been greatly diminished and its gimmick is borderline useless now.

 

So for those of you who don't own it, the Z52 has very low gun DPM with particularly low HE dmg but higher than average AP dmg. Its torpedoes also do comparatively low damage and the torpedo DPM is somewhat average and you can only launch 8 of them at a time (2X4) although it does get a low reload in return.

But its main gimmick is the long range (6km) hydro. The whole point of the ship was that it was the absolute king of caps for a while.

It could never outright outgun its competition but being able to use the smoke + hydro combination often gave you an edge.

 

Today however due to the multiple radar ships introduced recently (Kronstadt, Stalingrad, the whole USN light cruiser line) and then the Daring which fills a very similar role, the Z52 (or Big Z as I like to call it) has been rendered somewhat obsolete.

I think that it could really use a bit of love. Possibly slightly higher HE damage - I am not 100% sure how it could be improved.

 

Below is t10 DD performance for the past 2 months with the z52 coming in dead last in WR, damage, XP and ships destroyed. Basically if there's a statistic out there, the z52 is the worst at it.

image.thumb.png.11b213c8b14d06312e807d8d35fe8e77.png

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Let me save you some time and give you the official WG response to any calls for ship buffs based on public stats:

Quote

We have looked at our secret stats, which we won't share with you, and determined that the ship can rot in hell. We don't care about its performance since in our opinion it's ok for it to be not fun to play. Also, give us money.

 

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What I find rather amusing is that the 3 most played DDs - Shima, Gearing and Z - are the 3 worst performing ones. Every category, except that Shima now outperforms the nerfed YY in kills per battle. Potato power!

 

That leads to me questioning if the ship is underperforming because it's weak (it might be, as you pointed out), or is it so simply because of the amount of clueless potatoes playing it? But that we'll never know, we can just speculate

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28 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

What I find rather amusing is that the 3 most played DDs - Shima, Gearing and Z - are the 3 worst performing ones. Every category, except that Shima now outperforms the nerfed YY in kills per battle. Potato power!

 

That leads to me questioning if the ship is underperforming because it's weak (it might be, as you pointed out), or is it so simply because of the amount of clueless potatoes playing it? But that we'll never know, we can just speculate

 

I thought a lot about that before I made the topic. And the conclusion I reached is this. Yes, there probably is a bit of sample bias here but the fact that the Z is doing MUCH worse than the shima and gearing makes me think I am right in saying it's weaker than it should be.

 

What I mean is even relatively speaking, in this "special" subcategory of most played DDs, the Z stands out as particularly terrible.

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Shima and Gearing already received some buffs, which might have helped elevate their performance above that of Z52. However, considering how long it took those two to get buffed....

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I agree with the OP on the Z-52, in random matches. 

A small buff in terms of manouvreable or acceleration would be more then welcome. It really needs to get on a diet. 

 

(Heal party? :cap_cool:)

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1 hour ago, LeSnoet said:

I agree with the OP on the Z-52, in random matches. 

A small buff in terms of manouvreable or acceleration would be more then welcome. It really needs to get on a diet. 

 

(Heal party? :cap_cool:)

 

Not quite sure what should be done to it. I am still at the phase where I want to draw attention to the fact that I consider it underpowered. Once most people are made aware of that then we can potentially discuss solutions.

 

I can't believe that 35k average damage number. That's a third of a BBs health. 2 fires worth of damage on a BB.

And we know it's not only DD damage by its average XP.

 

It's all a bit pathetic really.

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Z52 was first tier 10 DD I've unlocked. I think it's also my most played silver ship. Dunno why really, my stats in it are terrible...:Smile_amazed:

Since than I've unlocked almost every tier 10 DD and every single one was more fun to play than Z52. Which is weird, cos on paper long range hydro + smoke sound strong and I love playing Loyang, but can't make Z52 work.

I agree it needs something. A buff.

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Great, now seems like WGs next move will be to completely nerf Daring, seeing that win rate...

 

And I agree I felt underwhelming in my Z52, stats are good and everything but its getting worse. Maybe a small reload buff to compensate for the lower he damage along with a smaller turning radius should make it feel better.

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7 hours ago, _Montagne said:

Great, now seems like WGs next move will be to completely nerf Daring, seeing that win rate...

 

And I agree I felt underwhelming in my Z52, stats are good and everything but its getting worse. Maybe a small reload buff to compensate for the lower he damage along with a smaller turning radius should make it feel better.

I mean, the Daring is doing a bit too well. It may be like some people suggest, that it’s played by lots of really good players at the moment but it remains to be seen.

 

Back to the topic at hand, is this the first time we all sort of agree? Has a miracle happened?

Do we actually all think the Z52 is underwhelming to put it mildly?

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45 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

I mean, the Daring is doing a bit too well. It may be like some people suggest, that it’s played by lots of really good players at the moment but it remains to be seen.

Yeah, it should still fall in the next 3...6 months. After that we'll see if she's actually overperforming or no

 

47 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

Back to the topic at hand, is this the first time we all sort of agree? Has a miracle happened?

Do we actually all think the Z52 is underwhelming to put it mildly?

That doesn't sound like forums to me, that doesn't happen here :Smile_trollface:

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14 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Yeah, it should still fall in the next 3...6 months. After that we'll see if she's actually overperforming or no

 

 

Problem is that its win rate keeps going up. We'll see though. I suspect that CVs in 8.0 wil hit it quite hard. Both literally and figuratively 

 

14 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

That doesn't sound like forums to me, that doesn't happen here :Smile_trollface:

 

I know right?

How bad does a ship need to be for the forumites to all go "yeah, it's kinda terrible"??

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33 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

Problem is that its win rate keeps going up. We'll see though. I suspect that CVs in 8.0 wil hit it quite hard. Both literally and figuratively  

Well, the way I see that one is

QBedTlO.png

 

And yeah, with the release of the new CVs... RIP DDs, you won't be missed :Smile_trollface:

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15 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Well, the way I see that one is

QBedTlO.png

 

And yeah, with the release of the new CVs... RIP DDs, you won't be missed :Smile_trollface:

 

Meh *laughs in full AA Grozovoi*

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z-52 torps dmg is bad .İ mean they are realy  bad . they does  6-7k dmg to enemy ships. They arent super fast . Only they reload fast .their range also make them hard to use . When i am try to use them i allways radar. in turninig to escape lost most of my hp becose its obese and takes good dmg from ap shells. Yes ap is good us boardside dds  melts by it. but he and firechance bad . He has no dd turn or rudder. some cru have better .

her smoke  and hydro works some accoitins in mid and later game.

 

so i figure out if you want to be succesful ( i mean over 55winrate 40kdmgave like me ) you have to see mid-late time of a battle .

 

i think he needs some sort of buff.

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+2km torpedo range ? That's what I would like in the ship. That makes the short torpedo reload more usefull without directly upsetting the gun balance against other DDs.

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Just introduce subs already, then the 6km hydro will put her on top of the pack again :Smile_trollface:

 

The point being: the gadget Z52 buys by sacrificing raw dpm is obviously very meta-dependent. Disclaimer: I am only at z46 but here are my theorycrafting thoughts:

Increasing her raw gun dpm could - like mentioned before - easily make her too dominant as soon as the meta favours long range hydro again. So one approach would be to make her more consistent in the other things that make her stand out. As such maybe a Krupp buff could make her AP more usable vs. BB superstructures by not needing a perfect broadside anymore. That would result in more overpens vs DDs though, so not sure if it is a good idea...

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8 minutes ago, Jagod said:

Just introduce subs already, then the 6km hydro will put her on top of the pack again :Smile_trollface:

 

The point being: the gadget Z52 buys by sacrificing raw dpm is obviously very meta-dependent. Disclaimer: I am only at z46 but here are my theorycrafting thoughts:

Increasing her raw gun dpm could - like mentioned before - easily make her too dominant as soon as the meta favours long range hydro again. So one approach would be to make her more consistent in the other things that make her stand out. As such maybe a Krupp buff could make her AP more usable vs. BB superstructures by not needing a perfect broadside anymore. That would result in more overpens vs DDs though, so not sure if it is a good idea...

 

The Z46 is a better ship right now. Same torpedoes as the z52 (500m less range but that's not really anything) and  the z46 turret layout is much better for a ship with bad dpm as it's better for kiting away.

And it's stealthier and more agile.

 

So if you think the z46 is not phenomenal, the z52 will be totally underwhelming.

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Oh I enjoy my Z46 alot :Smile_great:

 

My comment was regarding Z52, though from a purely numbercrunching perspective as I have not played it. Still, this topic promises to be an interesting one, so I wanted to add another possibility to the disscusion to (hopefully) keep it going :Smile_honoring:

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52 minutes ago, Jagod said:

Oh I enjoy my Z46 alot :Smile_great:

 

My comment was regarding Z52, though from a purely numbercrunching perspective as I have not played it. Still, this topic promises to be an interesting one, so I wanted to add another possibility to the disscusion to (hopefully) keep it going :Smile_honoring:

 

Yes, no sorry, I didn't mean to sound unappreciative. In fact I am quite grateful to every one contributing.

 

I just wanted to say that the z46 is not in such a dire spot as the z52 is.

 

A bit off topic, I am shocked that everyone agrees here. Like not a single dissenting opinion so far.

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No worries, I also didn't mean to give the impression that I was complaining about Z46 in any way. But now that you mentioned it the comparison between the two ships very nicely demonstrates how much Z52 pays for access to its long range hydro.

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24.01.2019 o 18:15, _Teob_ napisał:

 

Meh *laughs in full AA Grozovoi*

Laughs in Asashio.

 

Oh wait...

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Z-52 seems pretty sucky, yes. I'm still at Maass and in no hurry to advance. I think I'm having most fun in Shima of the tier 10 dds tbh.

Not sure what kind of buff Z-52 could have.. The hydro makes it pretty terrifying against other dds should it receive a buff to gun power. I doubt that would be a good solution.

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2 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Z-52 seems pretty sucky, yes. I'm still at Maass and in no hurry to advance. I think I'm having most fun in Shima of the tier 10 dds tbh.

Not sure what kind of buff Z-52 could have.. The hydro makes it pretty terrifying against other dds should it receive a buff to gun power. I doubt that would be a good solution.

 

The problem is that currently it gives up too much for the hydro.

A daring for example will quite happily rush you in your smoke while you are hydro-ing him. It will eat a torpedo and still kill you. I am not quite sure what you are meant to do in that situation.

 

I don't think a small gun buff would make it OP.

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Don't worry guys, starting from tomorrow the Z-52 will be equalized with other T10 DDs. It will just be as obsolete as them in the new perma-spotted CV meta.

Reddit has NA guys posting their DD experience already.

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