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Besserwisser3000

t8 MM: When will this be fixed???

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Well, thanks for your "new and improved T8 MM", WG. It sucks. It`s horrible.

*edited*

 

Do you think that my idea of fun is to join two games in my Lightning and get into 90% T10 games in both matches? It`s the only T8 I currently play (for good reasons) and get uptiered 80% of the time. I made a list.

 

*edited*

 

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Most likely, not until people stop buying T8 premium ships and/or their way through the T8 grind.

If you want something vote with your wallets, it's the only message WG will hear.

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7 ore fa, Besserwisser3000 ha scritto:

Well, thanks for your "new and improved T8 MM", WG. It sucks. It`s horrible. *edited*

 

Do you think that my idea of fun is to join two games in my Lightning and get into 90% T10 games in both matches? It`s the only T8 I currently play (for good reasons) and get uptiered 80% of the time. I made a list.

 

*edited*

It will never be "Fixed" lad, as there is nothing broken about it => "Working, as Designed". Tier 8 MM is the same you get for all  from tier 5 upwards (+-2) and that won't change. Best just learn to live with it. And in any case it is not that hard to deal with being bottom tier from time-to-time, especially not in a DD. :cap_viking:

 

BTW, how exactly do you get 90% Tier 10 games, if you only played 2 in the first place? Just wondering... :cap_hmm:

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You can play for me T6, where i got like 100% T8 MM last couple of days if thats more fun?

Hint: Its not. T6 vs T8 is MUCH more horrible than T8 vs T10 :fish_book:

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I rly dont know, what ur problem is with T8 ?

I dont have one

 

SmartSelect_20190122-113200_Samsung Internet.jpg

 

Edit: always the potatos react with boring emote hahahah

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11 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

You can play for me T6, where i got like 100% T8 MM last couple of days if thats more fun?

Hint: Its not. T6 vs T8 is MUCH more horrible than T8 vs T10 :fish_book:

How can you say that, waddabaut all those prem t8 bbs people bought for good cash to finally fight back against those nasties that pummel them in mid tiers just to find out they are still just fodder for t10s :Smile_trollface:

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16 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

Well, thanks for your "new and improved T8 MM", WG. It sucks. It`s horrible. And frankly, a trained monkey could fix this. Why can`t your devs?

 

Do you think that my idea of fun is to join two games in my Lightning and get into 90% T10 games in both matches? It`s the only T8 I currently play (for good reasons) and get uptiered 80% of the time. I made a list.

 

Are your devs really that incompetent? How about you spend less time with useless fanservice videos and start improving your horrible MM for a change? Thanks.

 

More changes to the MM are planned to help T8.

 

The biggest would appear to be turning the MM on it's head so that it builds T8 matches first. Currently the MM builds matches around T10s as historically there weren't that many of them about and queue times were long. Since we have lots of T10's now, the MM is pulling T8's in to regularly. WG hope that building matches around T8's in the queue will give a more banced spread of +/- 2 games.

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6 ore fa, Besserwisser3000 ha scritto:

Do you think that my idea of fun is to join two games in my Lightning and get into 90% T10 games in both matches?

 

*edited*

Edited by NickMustaine
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7 ore fa, Besserwisser3000 ha scritto:

Well, thanks for your "new and improved T8 MM", WG. It sucks. It`s horrible. *edited*

 

Do you think that my idea of fun is to join two games in my Lightning and get into 90% T10 games in both matches? It`s the only T8 I currently play (for good reasons) and get uptiered 80% of the time. I made a list.

 

*edited*

Why can't people put their points forward without being offensive?

 

T8 is not the best MM but they have improved it recently, you will notice that most by playing T7.

Due to the  concealment module and  armour values changing for all classes from T7 to T8,

it is far less of a challenge to play as T8 vs T10 than T7 vs T9.

 

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6 ore fa, gopher31 ha scritto:

Why can't people put their points forward without being offensive?

 

 

*edited*

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7 ore fa, Besserwisser3000 ha scritto:

Well, thanks for your "new and improved T8 MM", WG. It sucks. It`s horrible. *edited*

 

Do you think that my idea of fun is to join two games in my Lightning and get into 90% T10 games in both matches? It`s the only T8 I currently play (for good reasons) and get uptiered 80% of the time. I made a list.

 

 *edited*

 

No one is really listening to you. The amount of "special" posts is staggering.

 

T8 ships can go up to T10, its part of how the game works, and you might want to learn to deal with it. Solution for you, play TX ships.

 

*edited*

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6 ore fa, bushwacker001 ha scritto:

*edited*

 

6 ore fa, bushwacker001 ha scritto:

*edited*

 

*edited*

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7 ore fa, Besserwisser3000 ha scritto:

Well, thanks for your "new and improved T8 MM", WG. It sucks. It`s horrible.*edited*

 

Do you think that my idea of fun is to join two games in my Lightning and get into 90% T10 games in both matches? It`s the only T8 I currently play (for good reasons) and get uptiered 80% of the time. I made a list.

 

.*edited*

 

Couple of things.

- You complain in a LIGHTNING about T10 mm? Really? Its prolly the T8, that has the least problems beeing uptierd with its 5,5 km concealment.

- If 20 people play T6, 50 people play T8 and 250 people play T10 - what kind of games will the matchmaker create for those people? So tell us your "easy fix", that a "trained monkey" can do, you genius. You havent even understood why the matchmaker creates the games it does. Do your homework.

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1 hour ago, RAHJAILARI said:

 Tier 8 MM is the same you get for all  from tier 5 upwards (+-2) and that won't change.

Actually it's not. The rule is the same +-2, sure, but it is well established that T8 are much more often bottom tier.

You may be fine with it, please acknowledge that many people are not.

To the point that WG has -although quite ineffectively- tried to address the issue.

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24 minutes ago, AmiralPotato said:

Actually it's not. The rule is the same +-2, sure, but it is well established that T8 are much more often bottom tier.

You may be fine with it, please acknowledge that many people are not.

To the point that WG has -although quite ineffectively- tried to address the issue.

Well, strangely enough, when I checked on that a while back (since I had similar complaints myself before) I only end up in majority tier 10 games with my tier 8's about 30-40% of the time, some days perhaps a bit more but not nearly all the time and one can deal with it just by adjusting his playstyle to play a bit more cautious when that happens. Of course, if you play tier 8 (especially Cruiser) early in the morning (say before 10am GMT), then you will be very likely to end up in a tier 10 match but that is to be expected. Now I am not saying that one should end up in tier 10 all the time, but that is quite obviously not the case and claiming that this happens 90% of the time is just plain BS. :cap_popcorn:

 

If you play tier 8 with a +-2 tier MM it will occasionally happen that you will end up in tier 10 match, that is a given so the only reliable solution to "Resolve" that for anyone, who never wants to be a bottom tier is just to FXP to tier 10 and play with them all the time, no issues. Of course, the problem here might be that too many people are actually doing just that resulting in an oversupply of many queuing tier 10's and small number of tier 8's being in MM queue at the same time, which would eventually result in the few tier 8's being matched against tier 10's just so that a team(s) can be assembled no matter how WG tries to prioritize the MM. :cap_tea:

 

In the end what all this will amount to is simply that since there are ways to deal with it, mostly just learning how to play as bottom tier, it is really no use whining about it but it would be more useful to focus one's attention and energies into learning how to do it and still have a good game. I'm pretty sure there are many people here in forum quite willing to share useful tips on how to do that and not only survive, but also do well:Smile_Default:

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16 minutes ago, AmiralPotato said:

Actually it's not. The rule is the same +-2, sure, but it is well established that T8 are much more often bottom tier.

You may be fine with it, please acknowledge that many people are not.

To the point that WG has -although quite ineffectively- tried to address the issue.

 

Actually it is...

However, after almost 3 years, people have failed their way to TX, so now you do have more chances of being in a TX game than 2 years ago.

 

The people that are not fine with the +-2 tier spread are going to need to find another game...

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18 minutes ago, AmiralPotato said:

Actually it's not. The rule is the same +-2, sure, but it is well established that T8 are much more often bottom tier.

You may be fine with it, please acknowledge that many people are not.

To the point that WG has -although quite ineffectively- tried to address the issue.

 

Can you and all others for the sake of humanity please start using basic logic? Dont you understand, that when there are more people playing T10 then T9 and there are more people playing T9 then T8 and there are more people playing T8 then T7 and there are more people playing T7 then T6 that means that.... EVERYONE NOT PLAYING T10 WILL BE UPTIERED MORE. This is math. This is logic. You can NOT change that. Can you and all others look here, use a calculator and check for yourself? http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190119/eu_week/average_ship.html

 

Des Moines   18965  
Salem  

14261

 

Baltimore   7644
Cleveland   12718

 

Dallas   5869
Pensacola   6640

 

There are some numbers. Now build me games where 50% of the time a T8 is facing T10 and 50% of the time T6. Maybe 12.000 of the 18.000 Des Moines players should get a message "We are sorry. You may not play your Des Moines right now. It would be unfair for the players of T8. Please pick a T6 ship and re-enter the queue so we can hold the 50% quota. thank you".

 

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You guys must be unlucky and the very opposite for me.

Every time I have used a tier 8 ship the majority of the time I am within my tier 8 group or Tier 9.. In only a few games, playing Asashio (B) or Kagero have I come up against Tier 10 opponents.

But, in saying this, if you play smart you can be just as effective as a tier 10 in most, not all, tier 8 ships.

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Oh, I'm all for learning and improving.

Just in the particular case of T8 MM, I feel that it's rather up to WG to fix what I (and I understand you may differ on that) consider to be badly balanced.

 

5 ore fa, ForlornSailor ha scritto:

 

Can you and all others for the sake of humanity please start using basic logic? Dont you understand, that when there are more people playing T10 then T9 and there are more people playing T9 then T8 and there are more people playing T8 then T7 and there are more people playing T7 then T6 that means that.... EVERYONE NOT PLAYING T10 WILL BE UPTIERED MORE. This is math. This is logic. You can NOT change that. Can you and all others look here, use a calculator and check for yourself? http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190119/eu_week/average_ship.html

 

Des Moines   18965  
Salem  

14261

 

Baltimore   7644
Cleveland   12718

 

Dallas   5869
Pensacola   6640

 

There are some numbers. Now build me games where 50% of the time a T8 is facing T10 and 50% of the time T6. Maybe 12.000 of the 18.000 Des Moines players should get a message "We are sorry. You may not play your Des Moines right now. It would be unfair for the players of T8. Please pick a T6 ship and re-enter the queue so we can hold the 50% quota. thank you".

 

Have you heard of T11 and T12 battles ?

Because if I understand what you wrote, this would be the answer.

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2 minutes ago, AmiralPotato said:

Oh, I'm all for learning and improving.

Just in the particular case of T8 MM, I feel that it's rather up to WG to fix what I (and I understand you may differ on that) consider to be badly balanced.

While that may be true. Take a look at ForlornSailors data regarding the ships played. 

 

What is the MM supposed to do when there are 6000 T6, 12000 T8 and 20000 T10 ships in the queue?

 

1 minute ago, AmiralPotato said:

Have you heard of T11 and T12 battles ?

GREAT POINT! However: The devs already tried a simulation with battle tiers 11 and 12. Result: It marginally improved MM for T8 while at the same time increasing the problems for a T10 MM.

 

So: What else should the MM do?

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32 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Can you and all others for the sake of humanity please start using basic logic? Dont you understand, that when there are more people playing T10 then T9 and there are more people playing T9 then T8 and there are more people playing T8 then T7 and there are more people playing T7 then T6 that means that.... EVERYONE NOT PLAYING T10 WILL BE UPTIERED MORE. This is math. This is logic. You can NOT change that. Can you and all others look here, use a calculator and check for yourself? http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190119/eu_week/average_ship.html

 

Des Moines   18965  
Salem  

14261

 

Baltimore   7644
Cleveland   12718

 

Dallas   5869
Pensacola   6640

 

There are some numbers. Now build me games where 50% of the time a T8 is facing T10 and 50% of the time T6. Maybe 12.000 of the 18.000 Des Moines players should get a message "We are sorry. You may not play your Des Moines right now. It would be unfair for the players of T8. Please pick a T6 ship and re-enter the queue so we can hold the 50% quota. thank you".

 

I guess the only way is if not every game involves three tiers. E.g. If you put some kind of parameter which told the MM to make a great proportion of T10 matches involve onto T9-10, or even... T10 only. Yes, I know...

 

image.png.31060c234fe4cbad0616b7a0eb0d298a.png

 

Now that's not to say that I personally think that would be a net positive, due to the potential knock-on effect on T6 and the possible impact on queue times of introducing new parameters into the algorithm, nor do I necessarily think WG would do it – as people have pointed out, having people face +2 MM not too much, not too little, but just the right amount of the time is an important incentive to keep moving up the tiers, and hence an important part of their monetisation model.

 

It is simply to say that that is one way it would be techincally possible.

 

EDIT: And I see in a previous reply that the devs have already experimented with artificial T11/T12, and concluded that it would cause more problems than it was worth. So there we go.

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8 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

While that may be true. Take a look at ForlornSailors data regarding the ships played. 

 

What is the MM supposed to do when there are 6000 T6, 12000 T8 and 20000 T10 ships in the queue?

 

GREAT POINT! However: The devs already tried a simulation with battle tiers 11 and 12. Result: It marginally improved MM for T8 while at the same time increasing the problems for a T10 MM.

 

So: What else should the MM do?

 

I certainly don't deny that the T8 poor MM is a consequence of unequal tier populations. After all, it's not some evil plot against the poor T8 :D

 

As for the unsuccessful attempt, I would go with a diplomatic answer: Good effort guys, maybe try again and do a bit better, pretty please ? :)

(I realise this may not be very constructive, but unlike my job, I am not paid for this, it's actually the other way around. So I'll just complain for my selfish entertainment ^^)

 

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1 minute ago, AmiralPotato said:

Good effort guys, maybe try again and do a bit better, pretty please ? :)

Who said it was one (!) unsuccessfull attempt? Doing simulations in my daily work I know how easy it can be (depending on the simulation) to alter some parameters and let it run again. So I doubt that WG made just one or two simulation runs and then called it quits.

 

Also: I assume they do reruns of the situations with every major MM change just to make sure. And if 20 simulations show me that the proposed solution of BT11 and BT12 fail, why should I run yet another simulation where my goal is to show that BT11 and BT12 works?

 

Maybe the most recent EU stream can shed some more light on this: In the wake of pointing out why +/-1 MM would be bad for the game, the game balance dev in the stream said, that it would be particularly bad for T10. Indicating that WG WANTS T10 to meet T8s (on a more or less regular basis).

 

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2 hours ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

Do you think that my idea of fun is to join two games in my Lightning and get into 90% T10 games in both matches? It`s the only T8 I currently play (for good reasons) and get uptiered 80% of the time. I made a list.

Why do you fear Tier 10 in Lightning?

My Lightning and Cossack with 5.5km concealment do very well against Tier 10 opponents.

They are fast, turn quickly and have some powerful torpedoes, importantly played right they are damn hard to hit. They also have some good guns, in my Cossack (second screenshot) I latched on to the rear of a Yamato (Tier 10) matching turns and speed; I just kept burning his [edited]for about 5 minutes with HE and apart from an odd secondary hit came away pretty healthy after Yamato was sunk..

 

Without meaning any insult to your play I think that if you're having problems with these ships perhaps you should try a few games in COOP where you can understand the + side to them..

 

I have included 3 screenshots from games where T8 faced T10 ships.

292657572_Screenshot(794).thumb.png.104ea8d5b8486e95edff7864c5fd0244.png

1587872645_Screenshot(795).thumb.png.339a76d9c1924363fcad621147be5794.png

1894580633_Screenshot(824).thumb.png.e0a7c3ea3a249b3f5cfde2bc1eb3657a.png

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