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Help Me Decide! - Bismarck or Amagi

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23 minutes ago, Nishi_Kinuyo said:

Do you want to sail around in a legendary ship?

Or in an actually decent BB? :Smile_trollface:

Go on. . . 

 

 

Edited by DiggerPH

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2 minutes ago, DiggerPH said:

Go on. . .

Thought it'd be obvious, but:

Bismarck is a legendary ship, afaik.

Legendary for getting crippled by a swordfish. :Smile_trollface:

 

While the Amagi is an actually decent BB.

Or should that be BC? :cap_hmm:

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unlocked Bismarck first, put on a secondary built and played her aggressively. Not regretted the decision.

 

then unlocked Amagi. Loved the main batteries which in my opinion are far superior to Bismarck and also liked her overall playstyle (a little, nearly not detectable less then Bismarck) but still havent regretted going for Bismarck  first. 

 

If I had to choose again, it would again be Bismarck.

 

Though, if you prefer to be "more effective" for maybe "a teeny weeny little less fun"  then you might wanna go for Amagi first.

 

Needless to say, I like em both (if that wasnt obvious enough).

 

There is one T8 BB that I dont like that much. The last time I mentioned which, the whole Forum basically went into "Witch Hunt" Mode. So I keep that for myself this time :).

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I have neither of them, though I played Bismarck on my divmates account and was less than impressed.

But I do meet them in the game and when I see a Bismarck I just smack it from > 12km. 

If it's an Amagi it's rather more risky... I just hope it doesn't pick me.

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2 hours ago, Yamato942 said:

Germans is the worst line at bb line 

The T9 and T10 are pretty poor, but up to T8 they are decent to quite good. 

2 hours ago, JimmyThePirate said:

I think everyone is forgetting the most important question:

 

Would you rather grind through the FDG, or the Izumo?

Izumo is a decent ship and gets buffed every second patch it seems. 

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As many have pointed out before, no much point in choosing Bismarck if you already have the Tirpitz. The torps on Tirpitz (assuming they don't get destroyed) will make it even more fun in brawling situations than Bismarck is. Don't take me wrong, Bismarck is a fine brawler, its hydro can help you avoid torps and spotting foolish enemies, but Tirpitz' torps are the ultimate agressive recipee for the most fun brawling you can get.

 

Now Amagi is a fine BB that withstood powercreep pretty well, has many solid guns and decent armor when angled (also surprising resistance to HE thanks to sizable torp belt extensions on the sides that eat shells similar to French spaced armor). Sure it may not offer the brawling fun as the Germans, but isn't deleting targets with your main guns satisfying? Amagi will do that more consistently than Bismarck.

 

When you factor in your goal is the Yamato, it really seems like a no-brainer: Get a lesser copy of what you have already that won't lead to a desired T10? Or a different ship that is considered decent/good and that leads to a T10 you want?

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3 hours ago, Toivia said:

Get a lesser copy of what you have already that won't lead to a desired T10?

Most times, hydro beats torps. Hydro helps get you through torp-infested waters, hydro allows you to get away with positioning and pushes where other BBs would struggle, hydro allows you to counter smoked up targets and allows Bismarck to brawl or bully away DDs, hydro spots around corners, hydro doesn't get destroyed. It's way easier to make a hydro count than to make torps matter.

 

Bismarck certainly is not the "lesser" Tirpitz. It's a more well-rounded BB, which in a high tier meta that does not exactly favour rushing in to brawl is certainly no disadvantage.

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12 hours ago, DiggerPH said:

Is the Bismarck a fun brawler like my Tirpitz which i always enjoy taking out for a quick skirmish?

The only difference is that Bismark has hydro and Tirpitz has torps.

 

I've got both the Bismark and the Amagi.  I'm not that fussed about continuing up the German BB line but I do want to get the Yamato even if it means grinding the Izumo (which has apparently been improved),

 

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13 hours ago, DiggerPH said:

Good Evening All,

 

Have a bit of spare time to devote to WoWs over the next month or so and fancy spending time with a new tech tree BB.

 

I can purchase either of the above 2 ships Amagi or the Bismarck as i currently have 28m credits.

 

 My dilemma is ultimately I can see my Tier X BB preference most definitely being the Yamato rather than the GK . . .  so the Amagi makes more sense right now!  . . . . BUT the Bismarck looks like a huge amount of fun ( in a Tirpitz brawling fashion sense?!) Can she brawl like the Tirp?

 

As they say  . . . Decisions Decisions. 

 

Shall I continue with IJN or go with ze Germans? ;)

Go for Amagi... Bismark is fun ship which can brawl but the results are inconsistent... 

 

Amagi is very decent ship... 

 

P. S. Bismark is legendary ship, but Amagi  is on the way of even greater legend - Yaa-maa-too! 

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I have all T10 BB's and Yamato was my favourite BB for some time, but I got bored with playstyle and now GK is my favourite T10. If I would choose now, I would go for German, because it is more fun in the long run (with secondaries/tankyness). Even T9 grind is fun with IFHE build.

PS. I still like Amagi over Bismarck.

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17 hours ago, DiggerPH said:

Good Evening All,

 

Have a bit of spare time to devote to WoWs over the next month or so and fancy spending time with a new tech tree BB.

 

I can purchase either of the above 2 ships Amagi or the Bismarck as i currently have 28m credits.

 

 My dilemma is ultimately I can see my Tier X BB preference most definitely being the Yamato rather than the GK . . .  so the Amagi makes more sense right now!  . . . . BUT the Bismarck looks like a huge amount of fun ( in a Tirpitz brawling fashion sense?!) Can she brawl like the Tirp?

 

As they say  . . . Decisions Decisions. 

 

Shall I continue with IJN or go with ze Germans? ;)

As I'm a Bismark owner with a 12pt captain I'd say go IJN. Bismark in the current meta and MM doesn't cope well at T10 at all

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7 hours ago, Seiranko said:

Most times, hydro beats torps. Hydro helps get you through torp-infested waters, hydro allows you to get away with positioning and pushes where other BBs would struggle, hydro allows you to counter smoked up targets and allows Bismarck to brawl or bully away DDs, hydro spots around corners, hydro doesn't get destroyed. It's way easier to make a hydro count than to make torps matter.

 

Bismarck certainly is not the "lesser" Tirpitz. It's a more well-rounded BB, which in a high tier meta that does not exactly favour rushing in to brawl is certainly no disadvantage.

Technically you are right, but I was taking the "fun and agressive playstyle" point of view. And I do consider torps an agressive and fun tool, hydro is neither. It's the smart, defensive, calculated tool.

 

Original poster was asking about fun, so that's why I was compeled to comment in such a way. (And obviously, if you are to take a smart, calculated and defensive ship, Amagi is still far better than Bismarck. I'd say Bismarck is somewhere between the two, sort of a tempered, controlled agression, to make it work best. But that is freaking hard.)

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1 hour ago, Toivia said:

Technically you are right, but I was taking the "fun and agressive playstyle" point of view. And I do consider torps an agressive and fun tool, hydro is neither. It's the smart, defensive, calculated tool.

 

Original poster was asking about fun, so that's why I was compeled to comment in such a way. (And obviously, if you are to take a smart, calculated and defensive ship, Amagi is still far better than Bismarck. I'd say Bismarck is somewhere between the two, sort of a tempered, controlled agression, to make it work best. But that is freaking hard.)

Honestly, I don't consider the difference in power between a well-played Amagi and well-played Bismarck to be great. Bismarck is imo the last truely competitive KM BB, with a good balance overall and no massive weakness except AP DBs. If someone where to ask me whether to get Bismarck or Amagi solely based on which of the two ships to get, to me it'd be a toss-up. In this case though, with circumstances as they are, Amagi is clearly the better choice for a good few reasons.

 

Also, hydro can be used aggressively. Bismarck can do quite a bit of work leading pushes into caps and such vs enemy destroyers with hydro, as DDs have to give way to her. They have a hard time torping the ship and even a Harugumo would struggle to gun it down in time. Hydro is not as offensive as torps, which can decide BB vs BB fights (and nuke the occasional idiot in smaller ships), but with its newly buffed massive range and Bismarck's decent maneuverability (unlike later Germans), it really has a ton of potential for pushes.

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Amagi is a Master Race BB.

 

10 sweet 16" guns and a fast ship also. 

 

Bismarck is a derpy under gunned ship that isn't even that heavily armoured unless you're rushing something...

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Amagi any day in the week. I do enjoy Bismarck but its not a particularly good ship and the two after it are absolutely awful. The problem in my oppinion with Bismarck is that it sacrifices so much compared to other tier 8s just to have good secondaries. The problem in that is that the ship doesnt have the armor and survivability to use its secondaries. Same thing with GK. Its worse than Montana in every way except for on paper armor, but because the superstructure is so giganticly massive it takes massive amounts of HE damage.

Yamato might not be particularly consistent for a ship that is supposed to be the most accurate BB in the game (which it isnt in actual gameplay). But the difference is that its shells almost always do damage since they can overmatch pretty much any ship it can face from the front.

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24 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

Same thing with GK. Its worse than Montana in every way except for on paper armor, but because the superstructure is so giganticly massive it takes massive amounts of HE damage.

Yamato might not be particularly consistent for a ship that is supposed to be the most accurate BB in the game (which it isnt in actual gameplay). But the difference is that its shells almost always do damage since they can overmatch pretty much any ship it can face from the front.

Hmm slightly off topic but the extra 50mm armour on a GK is pretty insane at bouncing AP.

 

Also I find Yam needs it's Legendary Module for consistent accuracy.

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23 hours ago, DiggerPH said:

Good Evening All,

 

Have a bit of spare time to devote to WoWs over the next month or so and fancy spending time with a new tech tree BB.

 

I can purchase either of the above 2 ships Amagi or the Bismarck as i currently have 28m credits.

 

 My dilemma is ultimately I can see my Tier X BB preference most definitely being the Yamato rather than the GK . . .  so the Amagi makes more sense right now!  . . . . BUT the Bismarck looks like a huge amount of fun ( in a Tirpitz brawling fashion sense?!) Can she brawl like the Tirp?

 

As they say  . . . Decisions Decisions. 

 

Shall I continue with IJN or go with ze Germans? ;)

Amagi is better ship. Very precise guns, turtle back armor, maneuverable. So if you look which one is better it is easy choice.

If you look for fun factor B with full secondary build is fun ship it will perform worse than Amagi but if you like fireworks that secondaries does you will be satisfied.

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The Amagi never existed as a battleship (there was an aircraft carrier called Amagi, torped and capsized in dock 1945)

The Bismarck is a legend.

 

That being said I think the Amagi is the better of the 2 in the long run and does lead to the Yamato but some games the Bismarck is really gonna shine and you will have a ton of fun with it.

I ´d say get both. 

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On 1/21/2019 at 7:24 PM, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

The problem in my oppinion with Bismarck is that it sacrifices so much compared to other tier 8s just to have good secondaries.

  • Untouchable citadel
  • HE resistant armour scheme
  • hp pool
  • hydro
  • turret traverse

Bismarck has more than just good secondaries. And if you ignore the secondaries, you could even add concealment up there. In straight up comparison to Amagi also AA. It's not necessarily the best, but I'd certainly not sell the last decently well-balanced KM BB short.

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10 minutes ago, Seiranko said:
  • Untouchable citadel
  • HE resistant armour scheme
  • hp pool
  • hydro
  • turret traverse

Bismarck has more than just good secondaries. And if you ignore the secondaries, you could even add concealment up there. In straight up comparison to Amagi also AA. It's not necessarily the best, but I'd certainly not sell the last decently well-balanced KM BB short.

Bismarck is HE resistant?? 

 

Thought IFHE sprinkled on the superstructure pretty much crushes the ship...

 

Also it maybe fairly hard to citadel but it can still take 20k+ from a single salvo in the upper hull.

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Just now, Negativvv said:

Bismarck is HE resistant?? 

 

Thought IFHE sprinkled on the superstructure pretty much crushes the ship...

 

Also it maybe fairly hard to citadel but it can still take 20k+ from a single salvo in the upper hull.

IFHE is not necessary to pen any superstructure. 19 mm gets penned even by DD HE (except the 114 mm guns). But that's not a Bismarck-specific thing. Every BB suffers from that. The difference is that hitting anywhere apart from the superstructure is mostly resulting in shatters, whereas many others (including Amagi) take full pens when all the deck is 32 mm.

 

And sure, it can take 20k from a salvo. What BB doesn't take tons of damage from getting fullpenned? If you angle the ship though the belt is pretty solid and vastly less easy to pen than Amagi's (before autbounce angle) and eating 20k is still far better than ceasing to exist because you got your citadel deck overmatched as can happen on the USN ships or Kii.

 

I find it silly to point out "weaknesses" of a ship that basically universally apply to the class and are only "weaknesses" because the ship doesn't suffer from worse. Like, the only reason you have to farm Bismarck superstructure (til saturation) is because the rest of the hull is pretty much a middle finger to HE spam) and the only reason the ships eats heavy AP salvos is because it doesn't eat worse from cits. It's imo even more questionable than the often-claimed "Bismarck burns well", which basically is just a combination of people not taking FP unlike on other ships and fire damage outscaling direct HE damage whereas on other BBs you lose massive amounts of hp already from the HE shells themselves so fires become more of an afterthought.

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5 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

IFHE is not necessary to pen any superstructure. 19 mm gets penned even by DD HE (except the 114 mm guns). But that's not a Bismarck-specific thing. Every BB suffers from that. The difference is that hitting anywhere apart from the superstructure is mostly resulting in shatters, whereas many others (including Amagi) take full pens when all the deck is 32 mm.

 

And sure, it can take 20k from a salvo. What BB doesn't take tons of damage from getting fullpenned? If you angle the ship though the belt is pretty solid and vastly less easy to pen than Amagi's (before autbounce angle) and eating 20k is still far better than ceasing to exist because you got your citadel deck overmatched as can happen on the USN ships or Kii.

 

I find it silly to point out "weaknesses" of a ship that basically universally apply to the class and are only "weaknesses" because the ship doesn't suffer from worse. Like, the only reason you have to farm Bismarck superstructure (til saturation) is because the rest of the hull is pretty much a middle finger to HE spam) and the only reason the ships eats heavy AP salvos is because it doesn't eat worse from cits. It's imo even more questionable than the often-claimed "Bismarck burns well", which basically is just a combination of people not taking FP unlike on other ships and fire damage outscaling direct HE damage whereas on other BBs you lose massive amounts of hp already from the HE shells themselves so fires become more of an afterthought.

 

Yeah true but that works both ways. I don't feel that German BBs offer anymore protection than BBs of other nations providing the attacker knows where to shoot. Maybe the GK with the extra 50mm armour makes some difference but otherwise no. 

 

 

Bismarck will save itself a citadel but will still take comparable damage, the other side of it is that Bis won't be able to punch back all that hard due to the lower calibre and lesser amount of guns.

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On 1/21/2019 at 5:52 PM, Negativvv said:

Amagi is a Master Race BB.

 

10 sweet 16" guns and a fast ship also. 

 

Bismarck is a derpy under gunned ship that isn't even that heavily armoured unless you're rushing something...

Omg this is so funny! But it's true.

 

Amagi >> Bismarck.

Amagi any day of the week :Smile_great:

And Bismarck? Just weak. lol :Smile_hiding:

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1 minute ago, Negativvv said:

 

Yeah true but that works both ways. I don't feel that German BBs offer anymore protection than BBs of other nations providing the attacker knows where to shoot. Maybe the GK with the extra 50mm armour makes some difference but otherwise no. 

 

 

Bismarck will save itself a citadel but will still take comparable damage, the other side of it is that Bis won't be able to punch back all that hard due to the lower calibre and lesser amount of guns.

How does HE resistance work both ways? It's not HE immunity, but at some point your superstructure runs out of hp. Also, if they only shoot your superstructure you basically only burn in 1-2 places. Compare to Amagi where I can basically hit anywhere on the deck and deal damage and set 3-4 fires without aiming at sections where I don't do damage. It's a straight up advantage.

 

Similarly, no, it's silly to argue "you get as much damage as if you had gotten citadelled". Yes, if I empty a broadside of a Colorado into a Bismarck point blank so 8 out of 8 pen, I might reduce the Bismarck by half its hp. Up to almost 33k damage might be chunked out (subject to damage saturation, 50% repairable) that way, which is like 3 citadels. But if I do that against a NC, I likely will get 3 actual citadels (not subject to damage saturation, 10% repairable) if not more and the rest will still be full pens, at which point it may very well happen that the NC just explodes.

 

It's like people are crying about how Bismarck doesn't have the best T8 survivability just because it's not Magnu-S forcefield and you still can eat some damage and die.

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2 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

The Amagi never existed as a battleship (there was an aircraft carrier called Amagi, torped and capsized in dock 1945)

The Bismarck is a legend.

 

That being said I think the Amagi is the better of the 2 in the long run and does lead to the Yamato but some games the Bismarck is really gonna shine and you will have a ton of fun with it.

I ´d say get both. 

 

Off topic but Amagi together with its sister Kaga were planned as battlecruisers but cancelled because of the washington naval treaty. The hulls were built, Kagas hull was converted into an aircraftcarrier and Amagis hull was too badly damaged in an earthquake so it was scrapped.

Later there was another aircraft carrier built and called Amagi but it had no relation to the first.

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