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Aragathor

Blyskawica - WG says it can't buff it because of "stats".

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During today's balance stream the WG lead game developer said they can't buff the Blyskawica because it would make the ship OP. He stated that the ship is already very strong as the stats show.

But are they? Or is WG using sikrit stats?

 

Let's look at the 2 month EU stats of the Blyska compared to other premium DDs at T7:

 

  WR Damage Kills K/D Survival
Blyskawica 47.02 24070 0.55 0.72 23.63
Haida 52.62 28749 0.85 1.27 33.21
Z-39 50.38 26860 0.72 1.04 30.50
Leningrad 52.24 31738 0.81 1.24 34.44
Sims 47.29 20796 0.55 0.76 27.25

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190112/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

In every category, save avg. damage, Blyskawica is last. So based on EU stats we can put the claim that the stats are good among other WG made up explanations. But let's stop here and remember that WG devs ignore anything outside Russia, because that's the center of the world. Let's look at the 2 month ship stats in Russia:

 

  WR Damage Kills K/D Survival
Blyskawica 50.17 27862 0.74 1.02 27.44
Haida 51.95 29890 0.89 1.37 34.91
Z-39 53.63 28114 0.76 1.10 31.19
Leningrad 52.69 28363 0.77 1.06 27.74
Sims 49.21 21928 0.63 0.86

26.99

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190112/ru_2month/average_ship.html

 

Blyskawica is second last in all categories on the RU server, with Sims being worse (Sims will be getting a buff to both torpedo choices in 0.8.0). So even on the RU server Blyskawica is lackluster compared to other premium DDs at tier.

Also the amount of games shows that Blyskawica isn't that popular on RU, it has 5962 games played compared to EU's 12704. When it comes to statistics, the larger the data set the better the results.

We can safely put the claim that the stats are ok among fairy tales.

 

There is no reason for the lack of even a slight buff to this ship, as it has been power creeped very harshly by other ships.

There is currently no reason to buy it nor a reason to play it, as several silver ships are just straight up better. And I can prove that too.

 

PS: I have used 2 month stats because they are reliable. Compared to 1 week they better illustrate the general state of the ship, irrespective of current events. I also refuse to use total stats as the meta changes have made many ships either weaker or stronger over time. In the case of the Blyskawica her original state was much more stronger than she is now.

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He probably meant "stops", remember english is not their main language...

 

Spoiler

:Smile_trollface:

 

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

I would not mind an improvement, but I still like her A LOT!

A lot of people have asked for a buff during the stream. The ship is loved by many, especially since it is one of the few remaining WW2 non-USN destroyers in existence, together with Anshan, Cavalier, Chi Lin, and Haida.

 

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1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

Let's look at the 2 month EU stats of the Blyska compared to other premium DDs at T7:

 

  WR Damage Kills K/D Survival
Blyskawica 47.02 24070 0.55 0.72 23.63
Haida 52.62 28749 0.85 1.27 33.21
Z-39 50.38 26860 0.72 1.04 30.50
Leningrad 52.24 31738 0.81 1.24 34.44
Sims 47.29 20796 0.55 0.76 27.25

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190112/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

In every category, save avg. damage, Blyskawica is last. So based on EU stats we can put the claim that the stats are good among other WG made up explanations. But let's stop here and remember that WG devs ignore anything outside Russia, because that's the center of the world. Let's look at the 2 month ship stats in Russia:

 

  WR Damage Kills K/D Survival
Blyskawica 50.17 27862 0.74 1.02 27.44
Haida 51.95 29890 0.89 1.37 34.91
Z-39 53.63 28114 0.76 1.10 31.19
Leningrad 52.69 28363 0.77 1.06 27.74
Sims 49.21 21928 0.63 0.86

26.99

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190112/ru_2month/average_ship.html

 

Blyskawica is second last in all categories on the RU server, with Sims being worse (Sims will be getting a buff to both torpedo choices in 0.8.0). So even on the RU server Blyskawica is lackluster compared to other premium DDs at tier.

Also the amount of games shows that Blyskawica isn't that popular on RU, it has 5962 games played compared to EU's 12704. When it comes to statistics, the larger the data set the better the results.

We can safely put the claim that the stats are ok among fairy tales.

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Lebedjev said:

Blyska is fine, i don't think she need help.

 

I would suggest from the facts above that you are wrong. You maybe able to make the Bylskwa work but the stats prove that it's the worst Premium DD on EU and 2nd Worst on Ru servers.

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Well do we know what 'target' WG has in mind for the stats?

 

I mean, if you want her to have 45% WR and less ... she's overperforming a bit. :Smile_hiding:

 

 

To be fair though, they admitted that to many players she's not fun to play.

 

 

So (to keep it constructive): How to buff something to be more fun to play but DON'T alter her game stats TOO much (since WG fears she'd be an overperformer)?

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Stat only show the average result and prove nothing by themself, like at the start we don't have the same poll of player.

For what i see, she is not really far behind the competition and she still outclass some silver ship.

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37 minutes ago, Lebedjev said:

Stat only show the average result and prove nothing by themself, like at the start we don't have the same poll of player.

For what i see, she is not really far behind the competition and she still do fine.

i really tried to comprehend this somehow....but what?

so you would like to compare 1000 worst players of T7 DDs or 1000 best players...you will always end up with some average of "something"

and no matter from what angle you look at it, blyska is in very bad spot right now. She used to be great during the stealth fire era, but thats looog gone.

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Being last in stats is not a reason to buff ship. Keep in mind that 100% of the time one ship is last in stats. According to your logic we should buff one ship every day.

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Do you mean, since the stealth fire era, she struggle against other dd (premium/silver) ?

Like i can't believe, she is the Krasny Krym of T7... 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Kenliero said:

Being last in stats is not a reason to buff ship. Keep in mind that 100% of the time one ship is last in stats. According to your logic we should buff one ship every day.

with your logic, we don't have to nerf/buff anything, ever. Something always has to be best and last right?

buffing/nerfing aka balancing happens to eliminate the gaps between bad vs good performers. So if the players are able to win 53% of the games in Haida, but just 47% in Blyska its kinda obvious. Its up to WG to consider also other stats of the ship to come up with some conclusion...it can take years (see Izumo).

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Either a little concealment buff or reload buff would be welcome. The Torps are good, HP good, overall ship handling good. Just needs a little love, nothing major or game breaking. Still really like her as a ship though. 

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38 minutes ago, aboomination said:

WG has access to more data than we do.

This. For example what is the average commander XP used by Blyskawica compared to the other Premium Tier 7 Destroyers? You don't know, but WG does.

 

For the sake of argument, there is a difference between under-powered and under-performing.

 

I'd be open to seeing evidence of her comparative stats, alpha damage HE and AP, dpm, etc. From what I can see her paper stats are good enough. That suggests if there is a problem it is with the drivers and not the ship itself.

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10 minutes ago, Verdius said:

If any DD needs help it would be Le Terrible

Well, at least it's living up to it's name. 

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29 minutes ago, Verdius said:

If any DD needs help it would be Le Terrible

I find it a hilariously fun ship to play. I can't however carry or truly impact most games. Awful WR so far in it but loved every game I've played in it. 

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I mean the Blyska is not a bad ship, with AFT your main battery range goes up to 14+ km and with CE she become a very good alrounder (her torps still suck except the reload time). Imo WG could add a heal in the smoke spot that you can choose if you want to play the ship like a gunboat or an alrounder.

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6 hours ago, Kenliero said:

Being last in stats is not a reason to buff ship. Keep in mind that 100% of the time one ship is last in stats. According to your logic we should buff one ship every day.

The stat difference between the worst and best ship should be as small as possible. That's why Sims is getting buffed, as its stats are even worse than those of the Blyskawica.

The discrepancy Blyskawica shows to table leaders is significant.

 

6 hours ago, aboomination said:

WG has access to more data than we do.

Yes, but we play the ship in the current meta. And I don't honestly believe that the people calling for a buff haven't been experiencing the short end of the stick Blyska has received in the current meta.

 

I played my game nr. 11.000 in the Blyska to celebrate my 2 years playing WoWS. It was a short game. Being bottom tier DD in a T9 match does that to you. An enemy DD spotted me, the carrier parked a fighter squad above, and a Saint Louis deleted me as i tried to escape (smoke wasn't an option due to being radared). I paid for this ship with money, I have good stats from 92 games i played in it. Currently this ship is a horrible experience and not worth being played. If I could get doubloons for it, I would have gotten rid of it.

 

5 hours ago, DanSilverwing said:

I'd be open to seeing evidence of her comparative stats, alpha damage HE and AP, dpm, etc. From what I can see her paper stats are good enough. That suggests if there is a problem it is with the drivers and not the ship itself.

I'll see what I can whip up, the amount of material to be worked with is quite large though.

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3 hours ago, Kenliero said:

Being last in stats is not a reason to buff ship. Keep in mind that 100% of the time one ship is last in stats. According to your logic we should buff one ship every day.

 

holy feth what a bad argument. if somethings underperforming you obviously buff it dude lmao

 

 

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It hurts the most because in real life it was the best DD of the era. Quite a few years before the war-time development acceleration. Yet in this game has mediocre AA (in RL having absolutely top, comparable only to 1943-44 Allied DD), has mediocre torps (in RL she could load all the newest French 550 or UK 533mm models), has lowered speed (in RL she was way faster than fantasy Russians), has idiotically long rudder shift time, artificially increased concealment range compared to other much larger ships in this tier range. In RL she was built as a better Tribal and was stronger than Cossack in almost all aspects. 

Well, it is hard to avoid seeing Russian bias here, as Błyskawica was specifically (and successfully) designed to counter all Soviet destroyers of the time, which in the game are disproportionately buffed. 

The ship is living reminder of Polish national defense effort in 1930s being the oldest still existing destroyer in the world.

 

orp-grom-blyskawica.jpg

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I have a lot of games in it, but most of them go back to 2017 or earlier. In the current meta this ship just doesn't perform well enough as a gun boat. Sure, as long as you're top tier you'll do all right, but the moment you're not the ship starts suffering badly.  I mean, it got powercreeped the moment they introduced Leningrad, basicly a ship with the same role but better all the way (because RU bias is a thing).

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It took me only two hours to get the overall values of all T7 DDs listed and sorted, so let's dive in. I have excluded AA and consumables, and also taken stock ships with only the camo applied.

 

Survival

That is health, concealment and maneuverability.

 

Spoiler
Survival HP Speed Turning Circle Rudder Shift Concealment
Blyskawica 15500 39 610 5.8 7.47
Haida 15700 36.5 630 3.8 6.31
Leningrad 15200 43 690 3.7 7.37
Minsk 15100 43 690 3.7 7.47
Shiratsuyu 12800 34 590 3.1 6.5
Akatsuki 13100 38 640 3.2 7.18
Mahan 14100 35 560 2.7 7.37
Sims 13800 38.5 500 2.7 7.37
Maass 17500 37 640 4.2 7.47
Z-39 19600 36 670 4.5 6.72*
Gadjah Mada 14300 36 590 3.5 6.79
Jervis 14300 36 590 3.5 6.98

 

Health - Germans play in a league of their own while Haida turns its nose at the Blyskawica. There's a 2700 hp difference between Blys and Shiratsuyu, but most of the ships are only 1k away from what the Blyskawica has. It's solid but not world changing compared to the 4000 hp the Z39 has on the Blys.

Speed - Blyskawica is in the upper average, by having 1kn more than Akatsuki and Sims. Otherwise she has a 3 kn advantage over others, save for the Russians.

Turning - An almost perfect average for the tier in the turning circle (616m is the average), but with the worst rudder shift at tier and by far at that. Even the Z-39 has a 1,3s advantage.

Concealment - Worst at tier when unadjusted for CE. Even Leningrad is better, which is ridiculous. Everyone and their dog will see the Blyskawica before she sees them, so forget about open water ambushes and scouting, also don't try to cap. Maass is in a similar situation, but he has hp and hydro, while Z-39 has the concealment module, plus hydro and 4k more hp.

 

No real strengths here, as every advantage is more than nullified by disadvantages. The rudder shift is just brokenly bad, leaving you with bad reaction time.

 

Guns

Spoiler
Guns Range Velocity HE Alpha HE DPM AP Alpha AP DPM
Blyskawica 12.01 900 11900 109837 15400 142142
Haida 12.32 808 11400 136800 12600 151200
Leningrad 11.56 870 9500 114000 12500 150000
Minsk 12.19 870 9500 114000 12500 150000
Shiratsuyu 11 915 10750 86000 11000 88000
Akatsuki 10.37 915 12900 103200 13200 105600
Mahan 11.67 792 9000 135000 10500 157500
Sims 12.88 792 7200 129312 8400 150864
Maass 10.85 830 7500 112500 15000 225000
Z-39 11.84 835 8800 70400 14800 118400
Gadjah Mada 11.94 808 10200 122400 12600 151200
Jervis 12.08 808 10200 122400 12600 151200

 

Range and velocity - one of the best combinations at tier. Others might have better base range or velocity, but not combined. This is the only advantage of the ship that hasn't been nerfed into the ground.

HE Alpha - The crown has been taken by the Akatsuki, with Haida breathing on Blyskas neck from behind. Shiratsuyu is close by, with only 5 guns, one more and Blyska would have been in third place.

HE DPM - Only the Japanese and Z-39 are worse. And let's remember that the poi-boats are torpedo focused and the Z has 150mm cruiser guns. The moment anyone decides to dance with you, you're toast, especially RN designed ships.

AP Alpha - impressive, until you realize it's a 120mm destroyer gun. Still, no one is better than you when firing a single broadside.

AP DPM - speaking of which, most other DDs will fire more often and do more AP damage. Blyska is 4th from the bottom here.

 

The range and velocity are the ship's strengths, because everything else isn't. With a severe DPM deficiency and the fact that your opponents most likely out spot you, your Alpha strike ability is useless unless you can pull off corner ambushes. Sitting at range and shooting people is better done with the Russians, as they can better reposition when needed and their DPM is better (more fires).

 

Torpedoes

Spoiler
Torpedoes Setup Damage Reload Range Speed
Blyskawica 2x3 14400 70 8 57
Haida 1x4 16766 96 8 62
Leningrad 2x4 15100 92 8 60
Minsk 2x4 17933 98 4 65
Shiratsuyu 2x4 17233 101 10 62
Akatsuki 3x3 17233 76 10 62
Mahan 3x4 11600 87 9.2 55
Sims* 2x4 11600/8500 87/72 5.5/9.2 65/49
Maass 2x4 14400 90 8.5 65
Z-39 2x4 14400 90 8.5 65
Gadjah Mada 2x5 15866 120 8 61
Jervis 2x5 15733 120 7 59

Sims torps are getting buffed in 0.8.0, I have ignored them in the comparison.

 

Setup - worst at tier after Haida. Everyone else can put more torps into the water.

Damage - second worst after the USN torps.

Reload - best, because you are using triple launchers.

Range - most DDs at tier have this range.

Speed - third slowest at tier, after Mahan and Sims.

 

Blyskawica's torpedo armament is garbage. Others compensate with extra damage, range, or sheer amount, while Blyskawica trails behind them.

 

Before I summarize the raw value situation of the ship, I must say that I'm surprised at how strong the power creep is at this tier.  It's incredible that introducing a few more ships made Blyskawica obsolete in the meta.

 

So where does the ship stand? On the way out, sadly. There is nothing really outstanding about Blyska. The one remaining strength, the range and velocity combo, suffers from bad DPM. You can take another ship, take a hit in one of the two categories and perform better. On a lark I looked at Akatsuki's HE DPM with BFT and it was better. That's right, a Japanese torpedo boat has better guns now than a dedicated gunboat named Blyskawica. Every other category has better ships, and where the Blyskawica could have had an advantage it has been power creeped by new arrivals.

 

What can be done?

A straight 1s (15%) reload buff would return Blyskawica to the top of the gunboats as the Alpha combined with RoF would make it the third highest DPM DD at tier (after Haida and Mahan).

Another option would be to increase the comfort of the ship by lowering the detection range by 150m and improving the rudder shift by 1s. This would allow players to be more aggressive, as they would be able to ambush others and better juke the enemy's shots.

Neither of those two buffs, assuming one is applied, would make the ship overpowered, but anything less would have no effect as the ship is already in a very bad spot.

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