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Donforce

Isokaze and my run of bad luck...

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Ok, i'm now getting desperate with this ship.

Although i'm a more recent addition to the wows community, I've never seen such a run of bad luck in a vehicle that a lot of people praise or find still enjoyable after its 'nerf' (i guess i'm on the 'nerfed' one considering i've just started).

 

It started two days ago when all i wanted to do was complete my 'daily' +50% extra xp which doesnt matter a whole lot as you know, but it bugs me when its the elephant in the room on my list of ships i'm still grinding. 

I believe my first two games i won, no problem, but were both on the same evening before the next day's 'daily' reset. So i go in, and lose time and time again. No matter what tactic or strategy, help my team, suicide run, support, whatever, the games always end up as a loss. I've had a mixture of derp games where i would die nearly instantly due to misjudging my position, and great games where i end up on the back foot and i'm fighting off 2 cruisers and a dd before i go down, earning lots of credits especially for a loss, but a loss none the less.

 

So i check guides or tips on the internet by this point, right use the stealth approach and surprise torp the enemy, which in two games of my newfound knowledge were again, both losses. Derp ai that rush you and stick a 'shoot me sign' for half their team to primary me, or my teammates die around me and once again i'm the next primary target for the enemy.

Maybe the play style of this ship is so precisely thin that I just need to do everything at the right time on the right maps, being with support and keeping range on the enemy, spotting them and providing cover with smoke screens...

...or maybe it's the ship that's cursed? :cap_hmm: 

I expected even an accidental win by now but nothing, leaving me to ride on a 15% win ratio for this ship.

 

Or am I missing something that I can try for tomorrow? Or just keep going and eventually win a game by sheer willpower and determination?

TL;DR I cant win any games in an Isokaze or i'm having a terrible losing streak on this ship alone.

 

(Also I'm actually writing this to try and jinx the losing streak into giving me a win next time I play)

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55 minutes ago, Donforce said:

I expected even an accidental win by now but nothing, leaving me to ride on a 15% win ratio for this ship.

 

Or am I missing something that I can try for tomorrow? Or just keep going and eventually win a game by sheer willpower and determination?

TL;DR I cant win any games in an Isokaze or i'm having a terrible losing streak on this ship alone.

I'll just leave you with a couple things to think about:

1. You have played 1 battles in Isokaze. What it means is that there's a lot of luck factoring into the results. And bad streaks just sometimes happen. Even more likely for a new player with little experience and low-point captains.

2. You made a mistake of trying very hard to win. This is what makes losing streaks more likely and longer than they need to be even for experienced players: you lose a couple matches so you get frustrated, get impatient, perhaps start experimenting with some strange tactics (you mentioned suicide run, right?) or just making stupid mistakes that you wouldn't have made otherwise. This makes defeat more likely. Basically, after having lost, say, 4-5 battles in a row it's usually a good idea to draw a line and, at the very least, go play some other ship. Preferably: take a couple hours break or just leave the game for the day.

3. Don't get too hang up on the winrates of some 10-20 battles. Even veteran players with global winrates closer to 60 than 50%, sailing their favorite ships can find themselves suffering a bad streak where they win one or two battles among 10 played. To put it simply:

 - there's no way you deserve 15% winrate on your Isokaze. Mainly because it's almost impossible to deserve a winrate this low (you'd need to REALLY go out of your way to try and sabotage your team without getting banned in the process). Someone who only moves around enough to not get flagged as AFK is going to have around 30% winrate over enough battles.

 - likewise there's no way you deserve a mere 37% winrate in your Kuma - you dealt some damage, scored over one kill per battle and still lost most of them; this is quite obviously some bad luck there

 - similarly, your 75% in Myogi and over 83% in Kawachi are largely influenced by luck (good luck this time): even the very best players would be really, REALLY hard pressed to sustain 75% in Myogi and sustaining 83% in Kawachi seems outright impossible, even a unicum division would be very unlikely to pull this off, much less a solo player regardless of skill.

 

Basically, you have less than 10 battles clocked on most ships and barely more (13 at the moment) on Isokaze. As long as it seems like you are doing something, scoring some damage, perhaps capping something - that's well enough. Now, if you happen to reach 50-100 battles in a single ship and WR is still abysmal - then it's the time to start getting worried; 30% winrate after 100 battles strongly implies that you suck in the ship in question, even if you're also unlucky. But with just 13 under your belt? As helpful as WR is for gauging your performance, it has the fatal flaw of requiring a substantial number of battles to stabilize - and you're nowhere near that number. So, don't worry about the winrate for now and keep trying to play in a way that helps your team and hurts the enemy. Having a brief look at your stats so far, it doesn't seem like anything more serious than an unlucky streak. Then again - the amount of battles you've played so far is low enough that even the stats much quicker to stabilize than WR are going to be pretty volatile :Smile-_tongue:

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1 hour ago, Donforce said:

Ok, i'm now getting desperate with this ship.

Although i'm a more recent addition to the wows community, I've never seen such a run of bad luck in a vehicle that a lot of people praise or find still enjoyable after its 'nerf' (i guess i'm on the 'nerfed' one considering i've just started).

 

It started two days ago when all i wanted to do was complete my 'daily' +50% extra xp which doesnt matter a whole lot as you know, but it bugs me when its the elephant in the room on my list of ships i'm still grinding. 

I believe my first two games i won, no problem, but were both on the same evening before the next day's 'daily' reset. So i go in, and lose time and time again. No matter what tactic or strategy, help my team, suicide run, support, whatever, the games always end up as a loss. I've had a mixture of derp games where i would die nearly instantly due to misjudging my position, and great games where i end up on the back foot and i'm fighting off 2 cruisers and a dd before i go down, earning lots of credits especially for a loss, but a loss none the less.

 

So i check guides or tips on the internet by this point, right use the stealth approach and surprise torp the enemy, which in two games of my newfound knowledge were again, both losses. Derp ai that rush you and stick a 'shoot me sign' for half their team to primary me, or my teammates die around me and once again i'm the next primary target for the enemy.

Maybe the play style of this ship is so precisely thin that I just need to do everything at the right time on the right maps, being with support and keeping range on the enemy, spotting them and providing cover with smoke screens...

...or maybe it's the ship that's cursed? :cap_hmm: 

I expected even an accidental win by now but nothing, leaving me to ride on a 15% win ratio for this ship.

 

Or am I missing something that I can try for tomorrow? Or just keep going and eventually win a game by sheer willpower and determination?

TL;DR I cant win any games in an Isokaze or i'm having a terrible losing streak on this ship alone.

 

(Also I'm actually writing this to try and jinx the losing streak into giving me a win next time I play)

Firstly, take her into co-op. Learn to get used to sitting on the edge of ships detection range. In an IJN DD you should never really be spotted. Try and learn to predict the paths of enemy ships and you'll land more torps. Don't just spam where the white zone says a ship is going as they will most probably turn, and try keeping one set spare so if you do land torps, you'll have a follow up set to cause perma floods (applies to all IJN and Torp DD's). You are more dangerous and useful in any DD the longer the game goes on. Spotting is key and you should actively do so, and remember my advice from earlier, spot without being spotted back. Use your guns, but try make it a favourable situation for you and have an escape plan. If you can get the hang of all of this at low tier, it will massively help you in the high tiers. Peace out from an IJN DD main and always happy to help others learn (especially IJN DD players). Also this might be 2 years old but it still holds true so watch for tips 

 

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Check online the available stats for Isokaze, then compare the average damage and/or experience with yours., that you can find it in your game profile. 

For example, on average Isokaze has a 50.89% winrate with 22.9 k damage and 685 exp. 

If you have on average over 23 k damage and 700 exp, but a winrate under 50%, then it s the game screwing you, giving you only bad teams. If not, you re the bad one that s screwing your teams. 

In your case, you have 15% winrate with 29 k damage and 764 exp, so it s the game giving you bad teams. 

In this case, just exit the game and stop playing for a few days, and come back after a while.

However, dont forget than in a destroyer you dont have to only do damage, but also cap. 

Even if you do a lot of damage, if the enemy has all the caps, you will still lose. 

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@Donforce - post a replay (there should be a replay folder in your game folder - I think they are automatically kept now (we used to have to edit a file to get them)) of a game so others can comment on how your playing.   As it's a team game it may not just be your play that is causing the losses.

 

What captain skills have you selected for your DD?  Having the 'right' captain skills can help a ship perform better.

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Can you post a screenshot of your Modules, upgrades, setup and commander skills?

If you are using a Captain with less than 10 points your will not have CE (Concealment expert) which equates to losing 10% concealment values.

Replays would also be good because if people in this forum can see your playstyle they can offer support, which you can choose to adopt or ignore, there is no pressure.

 

DD's can be lethal in any game but with the lowest HP in the game they also have to be certain of a move more than any other ship... Always, always have the escape route in hand before you go in to any situation, always watch the mini map for it will keep you alive if you do and always be aware of your concealment value.. Stay beyond that value and you cannot be detected.

 

As you do progress, and you will, learn enemy radar and Hydro capabilities by heart... there is no escape from it.

 

From experience I can tell you that learning good DD play can be hard, more so if you don't listen to advice given, but once you've cracked the requirements of the DD the games are immensely fun and rewarding.

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Everyone gets losing streaks. It's part of the package. Also I'm having "these ships." Meaning most people love them, yet I can't make them to function no matter what I do. Jutland f.e. Perhaps same issue you're having? 

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13 hours ago, Donforce said:

TL;DR I cant win any games in an Isokaze or i'm having a terrible losing streak on this ship alone.

PFFTH! Amateur.:Smile_bajan2:REAL Men play at least 86 games with 36% WR before even noticing... :Smile_great:

 

The point, losing streaks happen. just 13 games is nothing, when you keep in mind that we have roughly 30.000 players, each playing perhaps a dozen games in a day = 360.000 games daily, statistically 11 lost games does not mean a pip. It may seem big to you, but in the overall numbers it hardly shows, just bad luck that's all. There will also be days, when you win most or all your 12 or 13 games and in most of them (if we are honest) you had nothing much to do with achieving victory but were just getting a free ride with the team. So take em' as they come, doing your best and trying to play well, is all that matters.:Smile_glasses:

 

My theory is that in roughly 1/3 of the games you basically will lose whatever your contribution. Similarly 1/3 will be wins, even if you went AFK the entire game (I have proof too, was AFK 1 game recently, as my computer crashed and voila, when I got back the game was won and I was pink - YAY!). In only the remaining 1/3 of the games your personal effort will actually make a difference either way, so if you potato you will contribute to your team losing it and likewise if you are awesome, your team will be that much more likely to win it. So it is best to take the WR with a bit of salt and instead focus on your own game performance, as shown by "Personal Rating"/ XP earned or straight HP damage output.:cap_old:

 

There's no point in fretting over your winrate until you have played a statistically significant amount of games, so wait until you've some 1000+ games overall and at the least 100 battles in any particular ship before bothering.:cap_tea:

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10 hours ago, Donforce said:

Derp ai that rush you and stick a 'shoot me sign' for half their team to primary me, or my teammates die around me and once again i'm the next primary target for the enemy.

If you play coop, stay undetected by bots in a DD and when using smoke be sure that when smoke ends you won't be spotted either unless you kill spotter in next 5 seconds.

Besides as i recently found out killing 4 bots and last od them by ramming is not always an option. You have to survive as long as possible even in coop to secure win for your teammates as many get scared of bots easily and run away from them even if its 3v1.

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4 hours ago, Ferry_25 said:

Everyone gets losing streaks. It's part of the package. Also I'm having "these ships." Meaning most people love them, yet I can't make them to function no matter what I do. Jutland f.e. Perhaps same issue you're having? 

Those losing streaks sometimes happens to focus on specific ships. I've had those on Nagato, Chapayev, and most recently Akizuki. Despite other stats being well above average (and mostly top or high placements on the scoreboard), the winrate is abyssmal. Winrate isn't necessarily a sign that you're playing the ship wrong, and it's only really accurate if you have something like a thousand matches. Even a hundred matches, which seems like it would be a good sample size, can easily be skewed by a single losing (or winning) streak. It's likely to show some kind of tendency, but it's still not certain, especially if that ship sticks out from all your other ships.

 

Don't focus on your winrate. Focus on playing well. Do what you should do. If you focus too much on trying to force a win, you're more likely to take risks you shouldn't. That usually means more losses instead.

 

Take it easy. Relax. Enjoy the game. It's supposed to be fun. So make it fun.

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@Donforce at time of writing you're only showing 64 battles total - that's *very* early days; as others have said, it's way too early to be worrying about WR (and I wouldn't worry about it excessively ever - it's just one of several indicators of how you're performing).

 

If you're having a 'mare with a particular ship/mode, I would suggest changing ships and/or modes for a bit - frustration can often make you do dumb stuff, and that can make the situation even worse. You seem to be mainly focusing on IJN ships at the moment, which is a good thing - they're one of the sensible nations to start with. Maybe give the US a run-out as well though; it'll provide you with a bit of variety.

 

Do you have friends that play the game too? If so, playing in a division can help with exasperation, plus it ensures that at least one member of your team is (you hope) at least vaguely working in cooperation with what you're doing. Either way, look to join a clan; early on, a clan that's happy to teach is a good move too - they'll help you refine what you're doing, as well as providing some economic bonuses.

 

BTW if you haven't found it yet, have a look at the wiki: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Warships Although not 100% complete, it's a pretty good source of information on most aspects of the game, including sensible captain builds etc. With the IJN DDs (most ship lines, come to that), for example, you'll probably find that better captains make a significant difference (as well as lots of practice), especially when they have Concealment Expert (CE) - that 10% reduction in detectability makes a big difference.

 

Incidentally, in case the thought has occurred -  resist the urge to push for T5 too soon; when you play T5 (and above), you lose protected MM i.e. you'll start to face opponents two tiers higher than you, rather than just one tier higher.

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8 hours ago, BrusilovX said:

I think they are automatically kept now

afaik they are not But u can activate it with the modstation. there is a mod in there.

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Well I didn't expect this sort of response from people, so first off thank you all for providing feedback!
 

A lot of what you guys say make sense, even i should have realised some of the solutions myself. I guess staying up late on a working weekday doesn't help as well as staying focused on just WR, however it was just the fact i had 11 losses in a row out of 13. Yes it is early days to be concerned, and I don't want to have such things sway my thoughts on what could be a fantastic ship. I will work hard on not working hard (wait, what?), to just enjoy the game and start building up skills on a game I said to myself 'I wont take stats and scores seriously'.

I did that on WoT to the point where I cut off WoT completely from my life when a jpanzer E100 with a 170mm gold round bounced off an IS3's headlight 200m away. So new focus from now on is to look at myself and focus what i originally came to this game for - fun.

 

Later on tonight i'll smash out games to have fun with and to try and use the ship's strengths and see what the results are. Same goes for the Kuma, find out its strengths and utilise what people suggest to be useful tactics and just forget the stat pages even exist for a while. I'll probably report back after well into triple figures with that ship alone and find out if I've learnt anything. Who knows maybe someone down the line will be in a similar situation and will find this thread useful even for other ships.

Thanks once again guys! Now its time to enjoy the game as originally intended... 

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good plan, and very good general attitude - with that mindset, I have very little doubt you'll end up being a good player at least (if not a lot better) if you decide to stick with the game for long and "seriously" enough. And if you don't - ah well, there are other games out there to have fun with if Warships ends up not being quite right for you^^

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