What's with torpedoes' alpha?

[Takeda92]

I noticed this when playing Mutsuki and again now while playing Hatsuharu:

Hatsuharu has 17k damage for her torpedoes, yet every time 1 of my torpedoes hit, I get 9-10k hits, occasionally 11k. Mutsuki even get 8k damage hits.

 

Now I don't know about you guys, but for a ship with only 6 torps with 0.6 rate of fire, and the extreme difficulty to hit at least 1 torp (if any) you want to at least to do more than that. This damage output and that way IJN DDs are played is just frustrating and very inconsistent. 

 

I know it probably has something to do with battleships armor, but I did notice the same on some cruisers. If you can do your maximum damage against destroyers and light cruisers what's the point if you're not going to even hit them from the ranges you're supposed to be shooting at?

 

And it's ok if they want you to do damage by hitting more rather than hitting once and hitting the jackpot, that's actually the way I like it, but shouldn't they have torpedoes that can actually do that?  

[Fominator]

I don't know the exact percentage, but torpedoes do between ~50% to 100% of the damage, then BBs get extra bulge reduction.

 

Now I don't know about you guys, but for a ship with only 6 torps with 0.6 rate of fire, and the extreme difficulty to hit at least 1 torp (if any) you want to at least to do more than that. This damage output and that way IJN DDs are played is just frustrating and very inconsistent.

 

Don't play anything after Minekaze if you want to maintain your sanity.

[DtXpwnz]

I assume that damage is calculated based on the impact position

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_belt

[OVanBruce]

It's the same as a shell's alpha I suppose. You can do max damage if your torp manages to hit the citadel of the ship.

[Orkel2]

The damage depends on the spot the torpedoes hit. The middle of the ship usually has bulges so they get reduced damage, so hitting the very bow or stern of the ship will do much more.

[Takeda92]

The damage depends on the spot the torpedoes hit. The middle of the ship usually has bulges so they get reduced damage, so hitting the very bow or stern of the ship will do much more.

 

Most of my hits hits at the stern, and the damage difference is usually between that 12k and 9k.... so you still don't do you full potential.

[SBS]

We can also assume that this might have something to do with the unfinished armor mechanics yet. Also as others have said, torpedo bulges, large variation in damage from maximum-minimum, possibly angle of impact and so on. A lot of things can be factored in to how much damage you do. Maybe more info will become available in the future.

[Arakus]

Funny, there are players who says torpedoes are to strong, and now a post they are to weak.

I think if both sides are complaining it must be the right way atm.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

Impact Position seems to be extremely important. 

Last match in my Sims I managed to put 9 Torps into the bulg of a BB and only dealt like 45k dmg. 

[Aerroon]

You can also magazine with torpedos (or you could in the past), I've once been hit by that and I've once hit an enemy like that. Or at least I got the "magazine damaged" pop up when I got hit with torpedos once and I've put 12 full hp torpedos into a battleship only to have me get just one hit.

 

Oh, I've also hit a Cleveland for more than half its hp with dive bombers.

 

So it's all about where your hits land.

[Jexter]

You can also magazine with torpedos (or you could in the past), I've once been hit by that and I've once hit an enemy like that. Or at least I got the "magazine damaged" pop up when I got hit with torpedos once and I've put 12 full hp torpedos into a battleship only to have me get just one hit.

 

Oh, I've also hit a Cleveland for more than half its hp with dive bombers.

 

So it's all about where your hits land.

 

I'm pretty sure this is still the case. On the NA server my Amagi got sunk by a single torpedo that did a massive 52653 damage , I assumed it hit my ammunition magazine or something like that.

 

 

[Takeda92]

Yeah single hits happen but rare. I one shotted a Nagato for 65k with 1 torp with Hatsuharu, that's triple my average damage in this ship.

I'd still prefer to do a low but steady damage rather than those once in a lifetime "hit-the-jackpot" hits.

[Fominator]

Funny, there are players who says torpedoes are to strong, and now a post they are to weak.

I think if both sides are complaining it must be the right way atm.

 

Well, some people actually played after tier 6.

[_ramrus_]

50% damage hits are almost a rule, getting 15k damage is very rare.

My Hatsuharu got hit by a Fubuki torp for 10k damage and I survived. In fact USN destroyers can sometimes survive 2 torp hits they carry themselves ( 5k damage out of 11k).

[Captain_Edwards]

Funny, there are players who says torpedoes are to strong, and now a post they are to weak.

I think if both sides are complaining it must be the right way atm.

 

A single torpedo is not so bad. However current mechanics allow for 20+ torpedoes at a time very easily from a few DD and a CV's bombers. The spamming is the problem with torps atm.

[Sukulaku]

I find destroyers very underwhelming because of the torpedoes atm. They feel like an IQ test because they're incredibly easy to dodge even with a battleship. If you're not moving in a straight line - a skill you will learn after a dozen games - you won't be caught off guard by torpedoes. ever. Sure DDs have other duties like scouting and capping points but CVs are better at scouting and capping is just plain dull.

 

Catching ships with torpedoes is hard while avoiding them is very, very easy. They you have to wait for 2 minutes to get another salvo and there's nothing to do during that period if you don't want to get blown up.

 

Captain_Edwards, on 29 April 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

 

A single torpedo is not so bad. However current mechanics allow for 20+ torpedoes at a time very easily from a few DD and a CV's bombers. The spamming is the problem with torps atm.

 

If a team can coordinate a combined salvo of over 20 torpedoes, they deserve to get a couple of hits.
 

[Magni56]

 

A single torpedo is not so bad. However current mechanics allow for 20+ torpedoes at a time very easily from a few DD and a CV's bombers. The spamming is the problem with torps atm.

 

That "spamming" requires several players to collectively gang up on you. Would you also complain about "shell spam" if two or three cruisers all decided to start pounding you simultaneously?

[Captain_Edwards]

 

That "spamming" requires several players to collectively gang up on you. Would you also complain about "shell spam" if two or three cruisers all decided to start pounding you simultaneously?

 

I am talking about my own team members and the enemy shooting at one another, not at me. Its extremely easy to sail around and find yourself watching 20+ torpedoes get launched in a matter of seconds, with all of them on varying courses making navigation nigh on impossible. The way you are acting its like you have never played a match with more than one destroyer or cruiser. The games I have played, morons fire torpedoes at targets 20km away completely ruining a teams efforts to sail in to position resulting in numerous Tk's. Ships being able to launch multiple spreads ad infinitum is a problem, and a bad one that the devs need to resolve. Personally I would make torpedoes have a finite amount (4 salvoes max imo). And if someone says "but what does a DD/CA do when its out of torps, thats not fair", I will simply point to CV having a limited number of aircraft. Without which the CV is completely useless. A DD/CA still has guns to fight with, even if they are not as effective.

 

 

[Sukulaku]

 

I am talking about my own team members and the enemy shooting at one another, not at me. Its extremely easy to sail around and find yourself watching 20+ torpedoes get launched in a matter of seconds, with all of them on varying courses making navigation nigh on impossible. The way you are acting its like you have never played a match with more than one destroyer or cruiser. The games I have played, morons fire torpedoes at targets 20km away completely ruining a teams efforts to sail in to position resulting in numerous Tk's. Ships being able to launch multiple spreads ad infinitum is a problem, and a bad one that the devs need to resolve. Personally I would make torpedoes have a finite amount (4 salvoes max imo). And if someone says "but what does a DD/CA do when its out of torps, thats not fair", I will simply point to CV having a limited number of aircraft. Without which the CV is completely useless. A DD/CA still has guns to fight with, even if they are not as effective.

 

 

Just because some people launch them without any regard for teammates' safety, doesn't mean every DD captain should be punished. Or do you feel that DDs are somehow overpowered and should be nerfed? They get any kills at all only because people don't yet know how to dodge torpedoes and sail into smoke clouds with BBs. I don't see competitive clan matches having that many DDs.

 

I'm fine with 4 torpedo salvos if you give BBs for example 12 salvos worth of ammunition. Wouldn't that be fun, right?

[Magni56]

No, no it really is not a problem and any "solution" to it would just flat-out make DDs unplayable and reduce torpedos to be only used in suicidally close attacks, removing the overwhelming majority of their actual uses.

Pointing out that CVs have limited aircraft is a complete red herring as that is an utterly differnet situation alltogether. You wanna make that comparison, let all gun-only ships only have enough ammo to fire twenty or so slavoes while you're at it. It's just fair, after all.

 

If you drive in between your team and the enemy team, you are quite simply making a mistake. Trying to blame others for it does not make it any less of your mistake.

[Captain_Edwards]

Same argument I already countered. BB don't get torpedoes whatsoever, they have a limited use repair ability. BB and CV already have finite resources in the repair skill and aircraft respectively. DD and CA have zero limitations on resources. You still have guns to fight with, with no limitation on ammo. Sure they are not as effective, but that's the point. People keep using the excuse that "guns r bad, needz infinite torps" when the fact is if the guns are that bad, they should be complaining about the guns rather than leaning on the crutch of infinite torps. Hell I have a screenie here of a "typical" match with 25+ torps in the water in various locations. Thats SOP for the game atm, and saying its not an issue is belittling the efforts to make the game a balanced and rounded game.

 

The only ship class that should have infinite torpedoes is the CV's imo. They are large enough and have more than enough stores spaces to fire off as many torps with their aircraft as they like in a match. However DD and CA should absolutely have finite torpedoes. Its a secondary ability, and should be limited as per other secondary abilities.

 

And trying to make it about my skippering is complete nonsense. I have zero issues with getting torpedoed by another player. My issue is precisely as stated, the ability to infinitely torpedo spam.

[Sukulaku]

Same argument I already countered. BB don't get torpedoes whatsoever, they have a limited use repair ability. BB and CV already have finite resources in the repair skill and aircraft respectively. DD and CA have zero limitations on resources. You still have guns to fight with, with no limitation on ammo. Sure they are not as effective, but that's the point. People keep using the excuse that "guns r bad, needz infinite torps" when the fact is if the guns are that bad, they should be complaining about the guns rather than leaning on the crutch of infinite torps. Hell I have a screenie here of a "typical" match with 25+ torps in the water in various locations. Thats SOP for the game atm, and saying its not an issue is belittling the efforts to make the game a balanced and rounded game.

 

The only ship class that should have infinite torpedoes is the CV's imo. They are large enough and have more than enough stores spaces to fire off as many torps with their aircraft as they like in a match. However DD and CA should absolutely have finite torpedoes. Its a secondary ability, and should be limited as per other secondary abilities.

 

And trying to make it about my skippering is complete nonsense. I have zero issues with getting torpedoed by another player. My issue is precisely as stated, the ability to infinitely torpedo spam.

 

I'm a bit confused about what your problem with torpedoes. You don't have a problem with getting hit by one so it doesn't seem like you think they're over-powered. If it's a realism thing, you're playing the wrong game. The game is as far from a realistic naval combat sim as a game can be Also BBs couln't take 10 torpedoes on one side and float. Plus torpedoes were used in bunches IRL. The Battle of Jutland ended when the german fleet deployed a massive torpedo attack and the british turned tail to evade them.

[Zenith]

The Battle of Jutland ended when the german fleet deployed a massive torpedo attack and the british turned tail to evade them.

 

At least the British had a good reason for turning tail eh? I'm not exactly sure what the German excuse was, given that they disengaged pretty damned quickly, and then left with all due haste. 

[Wischmob_von_Eimer]

Funny, there are players who says torpedoes are to strong, and now a post they are to weak.

I think if both sides are complaining it must be the right way atm.

 

 

It depends on the tier level, in low tier games the damage and rate of fire of torps is to strong.

 

High tier DD on the other hand realy could use some buffs, be it either damage or rate of fire.

[Zenith]

 

 

It depends on the tier level, in low tier games the damage and rate of fire of torps is to strong.

 

High tier DD on the other hand realy could use some buffs, be it either damage or rate of fire.

 

RoF is insanely fast at low tier, but the higher you go the longer it gets, to the point where you're just waiting... waiting... waiting... waiting... waiting... and waiting some more.