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kingzy2013

kronshtadt overpenning bbs?

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Hi all, recently bought this ship and i am having quite a lot of issues of overpenning broadside battleships. everything else obviously gets overpenned also. 

Do i need to hit directly at the waterline to expect to do any damage? aiming at the main armor belt is resulting in way to many overpens. typically from 10km or closer.

 

any further out than 15km and my dispersion is causing to many issues with actually hitting targets reliably. 

 

any advice would be welcome :)! 

 

everyshot in that photo was against a broadside monty at 9km. little disappointed his armor belt didnt get a little more of a beating let alone not a single citidel. 

image.png

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Couple of days ago i overpenned a Tirpitz broadside aswell at <10km...

The shells are just really fast, which makes hitting at range easier, but it also means that you get more overpens. Even if the shell is arming, it might detonate outside the ship because its too fast.

 

But with monty there is another possibility actually: Its upper belt isnt armored enough to arm Kronshtadt shells. So if you hit that at flat broadside, you will most likely overpen it. Aim lower for the armored belt and it should overpenetrate imo - BBs are kinda fat

And Montys citadel sits kinda low in the water. With those railguns its probably hard to get to the citadel. :fish_book:

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5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Couple of days ago i overpenned a Tirpitz broadside aswell at <10km...

The shells are just really fast, which makes hitting at range easier, but it also means that you get more overpens. Even if the shell is arming, it might detonate outside the ship because its too fast.

 

But with monty there is another possibility actually: Its upper belt isnt armored enough to arm Kronshtadt shells. So if you hit that at flat broadside, you will most likely overpen it. Aim lower for the armored belt and it should overpenetrate imo - BBs are kinda fat

And Montys citadel sits kinda low in the water. With those railguns its probably hard to get to the citadel. :fish_book:

Yeah when i decided to get this ship i had in mind - more pen! no more shatters etc etc...lolno. welcome to overpen land. shooting broadsides just comes natural when shooting slightly angled targets might yield better results...

 

kind of hard to get used to potentially avoiding a broadside target because theres a very high chance u will just overpen...

 

not generally one for campying at 18km as the guns just are not consistent enough for it. but getting much closer than 15 seems to be to close due to overpens....hmm hard to find this ships optimum range. 

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Somethings quite not right since the last patch in my opinion. It's over pen city for me particularly in my Musashi. It's gotten so bad that I've left it in port. Here are just a few examples of other ships.

 

SMbMWY3.jpg

 

xgYAIEn.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Merlin851526 said:

Somethings quite not right since the last patch in my opinion. It's over pen city for me particularly in my Musashi. It's gotten so bad that I've left it in port. Here are just a few examples of other ships.

 

SMbMWY3.jpg

 

xgYAIEn.jpg

Roma has always been a sod for overpens...but it has seemed a lot more common as of late. used to see them when u hit a soft spot like the superstructure but getting more common on straight broadsides these days. doesnt help there are a few troll ships with paper armor which only ever get overpenned. 

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16 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

Roma has always been a sod for overpens...but it has seemed a lot more common as of late. used to see them when u hit a soft spot like the superstructure but getting more common on straight broadsides these days. doesnt help there are a few troll ships with paper armor which only ever get overpenned. 

I always expect Roma to over pen generally but it seems more prevalent lately. But it's not just ships like Roma as I've stated before it's all over the tiers . Catch a broadside cruiser and it's over pens all over the place. Caught a Wooster recently in my Mushasi broadside at roughly 9 km 6 over pens and a bounce 4 k damage if I remember correctly. LOL had I been in that Cruiser I would have been blapped back to port:Smile_facepalm: Another one from today from the Romas sister 

 

bR0eudk.jpg

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  1. Those are high velocity shells. Even if they arm the fuse at close ranges they may easily leave the ship before exploding
  2. Krons 305s need to pass through 51mm of armour to arm the AP fuse. On a flat broadside the 32mm BB plating (or 37mm on Montanas midships) is not enough to do it so you just overpen it
    1. To make 32mm armour arm your fuse you need to hit it at at least 57° away from perpendicular (before normalization) which is just 3 degrees away from autobounce
  3. Superstructure is generally a really easy overpen

 

So yeah, you will overpen a lot

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There's one thing people don't mention -- Even if you hit the main belt, if the shell is fast and has enough penetration, the shell might actually leave the ship through the other side of the main belt, that's a real possibility.

 

When the Stalingrad hits a ship at close range, the shell will travel 20 metres AFTER the fuse was triggered(950 metres/second * 0.022 seconds fuze time = 20,9 metres). 

With the Kronstadt it's 29.7 metres, due to it's longer fuze delay(0.033). If you hit the lighter armoured upper belt, the shell may very well penetrate out the other side. Same story with turrets!

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5 hours ago, IronJew said:

There's one thing people don't mention -- Even if you hit the main belt, if the shell is fast and has enough penetration, the shell might actually leave the ship through the other side of the main belt, that's a real possibility.

Lets see...

On 1/13/2019 at 1:08 PM, DFens_666 said:

The shells are just really fast (..) but it also means that you get more overpens. Even if the shell is arming, it might detonate outside the ship because its too fast.

18 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Those are high velocity shells. Even if they arm the fuse at close ranges they may easily leave the ship before exploding

Yep, noone mentioned it :Smile_trollface:

 

5 hours ago, IronJew said:

When the Stalingrad hits a ship at close range, the shell will travel 20 metres AFTER the fuse was triggered(950 metres/second * 0.022 seconds fuze time = 20,9 metres). 

Don't forget that the speed is massively scaled up. You should multiply that by either 2.61 or 5.22, don't remember which one. I think it was the 2nd for shells

 

Also, since mentioning Stalingrad - while she has the same 305s as Kron, she doesn't nee 51mm of armour to arm those fuses. For some reason which I've never been able to understand Stalingrad gets same 34mm as ships with 203mm guns

 

 

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On 1/13/2019 at 11:46 PM, wilkatis_LV said:
  1. Those are high velocity shells. Even if they arm the fuse at close ranges they may easily leave the ship before exploding
  2. Krons 305s need to pass through 51mm of armour to arm the AP fuse. On a flat broadside the 32mm BB plating (or 37mm on Montanas midships) is not enough to do it so you just overpen it
    1. To make 32mm armour arm your fuse you need to hit it at at least 57° away from perpendicular (before normalization) which is just 3 degrees away from autobounce
  3. Superstructure is generally a really easy overpen

 

So yeah, you will overpen a lot

Was it really WG intention to leave just 3 deg window for a Kronshtadt to punish a fully broadsiding battleship? Is it working as intended? @MrConway

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it needs an dispersion buff and a reduction time for the shells to fuse. right now it is nothing but free damage for t10 crusiers and american light ones if they know what they are doing you stand no chance.

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15 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

Was it really WG intention to leave just 3 deg window for a Kronshtadt to punish a fully broadsiding battleship? Is it working as intended? @MrConway

That's only on the 32mm plate. And keep in mind it may strike some thicker internal armour plating on its path. But yeah, highly sketchy

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16 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

Was it really WG intention to leave just 3 deg window for a Kronshtadt to punish a fully broadsiding battleship? Is it working as intended? @MrConway

 

Well, Kron has enough pen to not shatter on the main belt most of the time...

Missouri has like 340mm there, and Kron has even 410mm at 18,2km. Ofc angling will make it shatter, but still more likely to pen the belt armor than to get enough angle on upper belt pens.

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5 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

That's only on the 32mm plate. And keep in mind it may strike some thicker internal armour plating on its path. But yeah, highly sketchy

thats why the stalingrad (which has even MORE pen) got a shorter fuse......:fish_nerv:

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On 1/13/2019 at 12:15 PM, kingzy2013 said:

Yeah when i decided to get this ship i had in mind - more pen! no more shatters etc etc...lolno. welcome to overpen land. shooting broadsides just comes natural when shooting slightly angled targets might yield better results...

 

 

with this ship you also got "lolz" citadeling 19 km BBs....And you will never overpen citadel spot, so when close, aim lower, water will slow down shell and it will lose speed and pen value

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Just had a battle where I citadelled a Gneisenau at 17km but got 7 overpens in a broadside waterline shot on a Seattle.

 

With cruisers you don't want a full broadside  you want a good angle and you may as well switch to HE under 7km (not really!)

 

I wonder what the Alaska will be like less pen and shell speed plus better dispersion and ricochet angles, sounds very dangerous for cruisers.

 

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17 hours ago, EdiJo said:

Was it really WG intention to leave just 3 deg window for a Kronshtadt to punish a fully broadsiding battleship? Is it working as intended? @MrConway

 

I would call it more of a side-effect of the game mechanics than a flat-out intention. Kronshtadt performs very well on average and is more suited to long-range engagements. If we were to adjust the fuse time to reduce the number of overpens I can easily see it becoming OP.

 

And while this is of course completely anecdotal, I just played a game to test it and got a very decent ratio of pens/overpens at a variety of ranges - your mileage may very.

 shot-19.01.16_09.53.12-0555.jpg

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lately so many shells overpenetrate, its almost beneficial to be broadside, then angle ship. because of OPs you might receive less damage. This does not make much sense. Even New Orleans is overpenetrating ships

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On 1/14/2019 at 6:06 PM, wilkatis_LV said:

Also, since mentioning Stalingrad - while she has the same 305s as Kron, she doesn't nee 51mm of armour to arm those fuses. For some reason which I've never been able to understand Stalingrad gets same 34mm as ships with 203mm guns

+

18 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

thats why the stalingrad (which has even MORE pen) got a shorter fuse......:fish_nerv:

+

46 minutes ago, MrConway said:

I would call it more of a side-effect of the game mechanics than a flat-out intention. Kronshtadt performs very well on average and is more suited to long-range engagements. If we were to adjust the fuse time to reduce the number of overpens I can easily see it becoming OP.

 

Okay reduced fusetime is not the same as reduced minimum armor to fuse and MrConway is talking about Kronshtadt but still.... this is balancing on the edge of saying Stalingrad is op isn't it? :Smile_hiding:

 

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Am 13.1.2019 um 19:15, kingzy2013 sagte:

Yeah when i decided to get this ship i had in mind - more pen! no more shatters etc etc...lolno. welcome to overpen land. shooting broadsides just comes natural when shooting slightly angled targets might yield better results...

 

kind of hard to get used to potentially avoiding a broadside target because theres a very high chance u will just overpen...

 

not generally one for campying at 18km as the guns just are not consistent enough for it. but getting much closer than 15 seems to be to close due to overpens....hmm hard to find this ships optimum range. 

 

No idea what you are talking about.I citadel cruisers left and right. It must be your aim.

Vor 18 Stunden, Animalul2012 sagte:

it needs an dispersion buff and a reduction time for the shells to fuse. right now it is nothing but free damage for t10 crusiers and american light ones if they know what they are doing you stand no chance.

 

No, it doesn`t need any buffs, it`s the most powerful T9 cruiser already.

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2 hours ago, MrConway said:

I would call it more of a side-effect of the game mechanics than a flat-out intention. Kronshtadt performs very well on average and is more suited to long-range engagements. If we were to adjust the fuse time to reduce the number of overpens I can easily see it becoming OP.

Bit of a correction: fuse time only matters after the shell has already armed the fuse. And that's the 3° between autobounce and going to shallow to arm that were mentioned up above.

 

The fuse time might be 0.000000000001s, Kron would still overpen everything broadside

 

 

But yes, I do agree that Kron overall is performing fine.

 

1 hour ago, Miessa3 said:

Okay reduced fusetime is not the same as reduced minimum armor to fuse and MrConway is talking about Kronshtadt but still.... this is balancing on the edge of saying Stalingrad is op isn't it? :Smile_hiding:

Case-by-case basis. Kron with improvements could go OP, doesn't mean that a similar ship which already has these improvements is OP, she might have paid for it with something else. Also going up a tier generally means some kind of improvement even if the base for that thing remains the same

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3 hours ago, MrConway said:

If we were to adjust the fuse time to reduce the number of overpens I can easily see it becoming OP.

cough * cough staling cough

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Case-by-case basis. Kron with improvements could go OP, doesn't mean that a similar ship which already has these improvements is OP, she might have paid for it with something else. Also going up a tier generally means some kind of improvement even if the base for that thing remains the same

Which is why I said: "this is balancing on the edge", but now I am interested what do you think she "paid" with. Even worse consealment which doesn't really matter much more at the scale those two are anyway?

Also we all know that Kronshtadt is a Tier X cruiser in disguise.

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3 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Bit of a correction: fuse time only matters after the shell has already armed the fuse. And that's the 3° between autobounce and going to shallow to arm that were mentioned up above.

 

The fuse time might be 0.000000000001s, Kron would still overpen everything broadside

 

 

But yes, I do agree that Kron overall is performing fine.

 

Case-by-case basis. Kron with improvements could go OP, doesn't mean that a similar ship which already has these improvements is OP, she might have paid for it with something else. Also going up a tier generally means some kind of improvement even if the base for that thing remains the same

 

I stand corrected.

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