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SirDankII

Ship just gets obliterated?

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Hello,

 

Im new to world of warships. I played world of tanks for quite some time so i'm not completely unfamiliar to the mechanics. But ive reach tier 5 on the British Cruiser line, and every time i jump into a game, i get put up against tier 6 ships, which is fine except i seem to take one hit and lose about half of my HP instantly. Its not a torpedo, i have been watching out for them. What is it and how do i prevent it?

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WG Team, WoWs Wiki Team
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It's most likely a citadel hit. You can view your ship's armor in port. The citadel is the area of a ship where enemy shells do full damage, that can be over 10k for one battleship AP shell.

The British cruisers have some of the most vulnerable citadels in the whole game. That makes them very hard for new players. They get heal and later smoke to make up for it, but you have to be really careful with them.

The usual tactic to avoid hits to your citadel is to angle your ship and don't go broadside, so your side armor is more effective. Unfortunately, the Emerald doesn't have any :Smile_trollface:

In your case you have to make sure to not get hit at all, especially from battleships. Try to use cover from islands or smoke screens. Ask some friendly destroyer players to set smokes for you.

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19 minutes ago, SirDankII said:

I played world of tanks for quite some time so i'm not completely unfamiliar to the mechanics

2 very different games. Knowing one doesn't mean much for the other

 

19 minutes ago, SirDankII said:

tier 5 on the British Cruiser line

RN CLs is probably the worst line to start off on, it's the least newbie-friendly experience you can find out there. And the t5 is infamous for being kinda bad

 

21 minutes ago, SirDankII said:

i seem to take one hit and lose about half of my HP instantly

Those are citadel hits, they do 100% of the listed damage.

Citadel = the machinery (engine) and magazine spaces.

 

Lets take a t5 BB - Kongo - as an example (dmg given is approximate, may differ +/- a few points due to rounding)

  • AP dmg 10 000
    • Citadel hit 10 000
    • Penetration 3 300 (1 650 saturated / 1 000 on DDs)
    • Overpenetration 1 000
    • Bounce / Shatter 0
  • HE dmg 5 700
    • Citadel hit 5 700, can start a fire
    • Penetration 1 880 (940 saturated), can start a fire
    • Overpenetration / bounce impossible
    • Shatter 0, can start a fire

 

In port (right side, below captain / above ships stats) you have armour viewer, check your ship in that.

Basically you never want to give your broadside to enemies, it's the easiest way to get wrecked.

At the same time it's not like angling in a cruiser, especially a RN CL, matters much, you'll just get wrecked at weird angles no matter what. At least for now, as there was some mention of WG planing to buff CA armour to reward angling in the near-ish future

 

Apart from angling there of course is dodging. Speed up and down, wiggling the ship left and right, turning under the incoming shells (at least I find turning under them to be more effective than turning away, could be false tho), stuff like that

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15 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

It's most likely a citadel hit. You can view your ship's armor in port. The citadel is the area of a ship where enemy shells do full damage, that can be over 10k for one battleship AP shell.

The British cruisers have some of the most vulnerable citadels in the whole game. That makes them very hard for new players. They get heal and later smoke to make up for it, but you have to be really careful with them.

The usual tactic to avoid hits to your citadel is to angle your ship and don't go broadside, so your side armor is more effective. Unfortunately, the Emerald doesn't have any :Smile_trollface:

In your case you have to make sure to not get hit at all, especially from battleships. Try to use cover from islands or smoke screens. Ask some friendly destroyer players to set smokes for you.

Thanks for your helpful response. I've noticed the citadel when hitting other ships but never realised it could be quite so devastating. I will adjust my play accordingly. Thanks again :)

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Hello SirDankII

Very Nice of u to join us.

I highly recommend these vids here

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+it+works+world+of+warships+

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/media/?category=dev-diaries-media&category=head-over-keels&category=master-seas&category=naval-academy

Spend a little time to watch them, they explain alot of the Things u might Wonder about.

Cheers and happy hunting.

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Welcome @SirDankII

 

Nothing much to add other than a +1 for coming to the forums and asking your question so well - with a genuine desire to learn!

 

As mentioned, RN CL's are some of the hardest ships to play/master. The normal advice (which has more or less worked for me) is for new players to gain experience by playing the IJN and/or USN cruiser lines. Also don't forget to get an invite code (these will still work for you as long as you have less than 300 battles I think). You get free stuff which is always nice!

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As stated, yes, RN cruisers are hard to play, Leander and Fiji are quite decent though but always use caution when smoking up.  Neptune and Minotaur are just citadel pignatas, even a tier 1 can citadel you. :)
I had made a mistake when started playing the game and my first tier x was Minotaur because it would always be the mostly targeted ship on the enemy team, it can be very deadly but 1 second of carelessness and you're dead.
I think IJN line is the safest to start with or even the German one, Nurnberg at tier 6 is quite fun to play with.

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On 1/13/2019 at 12:51 AM, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Unfortunately, the Emerald doesn't have any

Not sure if its emerald but i looked at its armor model once and it has 40mm + plating on on the bow , same as moskva 

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On 1/12/2019 at 5:33 PM, SirDankII said:

Im new to world of warships.

Welcome!

 

Besides what others have said, something else to have on your radar: you get protected MM up to T4, but from T5 onwards you switch to +2; as in WOT, this means that your T5 RN cruiser is being shelled by much scarier opponents i.e. as well as getting citadelled, you're getting citadelled by much more powerful ships.

 

I'm another WOT convert: as others have said, the two games are not much alike (although the concept of angling still applies) - I would suggest playing several different nations/lines up to T4 for a bit, to get used to the differences, in a more benign environment.

 

If you dig cruisers, give the US and IJN lines a try - the former are all about the guns (T6+ they have no torps), whilst the latter retain decent torps (10 km range at T5 is really rather splendid), at the expense of less lethal gunfire. I would also give some DDs and BBs a go as well - besides them possibly being fun (they both have a happier time in the current meta than cruisers, in general), it'll demonstrate what they can/can't do, as well is make you more knowledgable about what they're trying to do to you.

 

Also, bear in mind that (unless WG change their mind) the (somewhat controversial) CV rework is due to be released an a little over a week; besides making playing CVs pointless until then, it may well change the game out of all recognition.

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On 1/12/2019 at 11:33 PM, SirDankII said:

Hello,

 

Im new to world of warships. I played world of tanks for quite some time so i'm not completely unfamiliar to the mechanics. But ive reach tier 5 on the British Cruiser line, and every time i jump into a game, i get put up against tier 6 ships, which is fine except i seem to take one hit and lose about half of my HP instantly. Its not a torpedo, i have been watching out for them. What is it and how do i prevent it?

Your ship is an oversized DD with a citadel. Almost any hit is a hit to citadel, so you bleed HP. It`s pain to play, especially if you are a new player, my advice, play some other line or suffer. Only few tips if you really want to play this ship: Use islands, use smoke, use smoke of other DDs, if no smoke, do not shoot, against BBs, use mainly torps, your guns are mostly useless. Do not rush, Emerald is not a first line ship, do not go alone anywhere.

Until T6 almost all cruisers are without any useful armour, but Emerald is like a wooden ship. You will have more fun with any other line, you may try Japan line, you will get big guns on T5 with torps or French line. Emerald is probably the worst silver ships of all. Had several good games in this abomination, but only when no one fired at me.

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Thank you everyone for your advice, really helpful. I will perhaps look at another line for now, until i get more used to the mechanics, then return to the heart ache.

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10 hours ago, tsounts said:

As stated, yes, RN cruisers are hard to play, Leander and Fiji are quite decent though but always use caution when smoking up.  Neptune and Minotaur are just citadel pignatas, even a tier 1 can citadel you.

 

4 hours ago, Verblonde said:

Welcome!

If you dig cruisers, give the US and IJN lines a try

 

48 minutes ago, colonel_duce said:

Your ship is an oversized DD with a citadel

 

Out of curiosity, do any of the British lines of ships have anything special in the game? Are the British DD or BB lines any good? 

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1 hour ago, SirDankII said:

Out of curiosity, do any of the British lines of ships have anything special in the game? Are the British DD or BB lines any good? 

The British ships are literally the most speschul/gimmicky lines this game currently has.

British cruisers uniquely (except the Kutuzov, Flint and some expatriated british premiums) for cruisers get their own smoke screen from T5 and up (same consumable slot as the planes),

Heal from T4-5 ? (which other lines get at t9), short fuse AP (and AP ONLY) with massively improved bounce-angles, improved acceleration , a massivley improved heal from T8 up and single-launch torps.

 

British DDs have single-launch torps, very short smokescreens with very short reload, they get hydro from T6 up, improved acceleration, single launch-torps

and at t9-10 better ap-angles plus a heal (only some same-tier russian gun-boat-dds get those, but they have to sacrifice their smokes for that)

 

British BBs have the strongest HE of all BB-lines, short fuse AP, generally good concealment,

usually no citadel cuz superior empire-science:cap_haloween: and from t9 on the same massive heal the british cruisers get at t8.

(edit: thx for checking @wilkatis_LV)

 

All of the lines are fairly strong, but with the exception of the BBs you need to be a bit more advanced in the game to really use them well.

Don't get me wrong the same is true for all ships, including RN BBs, but with them you get away playing relatively poorly (load the Skill and burn everything), whereas RN DDs and CLs don't give you that much leeway.

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21 minutes ago, SirDankII said:

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, do any of the British lines of ships have anything special in the game? Are the British DD or BB lines any good? 

RN BBs has potent HE shells that hit very hard with AP(they are short fuse ones) being questionable vs bbs but better vs crusiers, with t9-10 having zombie heals, but suffer from lack of hp and thinner armour(so more HP bleed), while lower tiers is thick plates everywhere, and certain ships in the line have very good concealment for a BB, conquer can out spot certain cruisers if fully speced.. RN DDs lack speed boost, also a bit on the slow side for dds but have high acceleration to make up for it, very short duration smoke but you have more charges+ faster reload, single fire torps, hydro from T6 onward and heals at higher tiers.

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28 minutes ago, SirDankII said:

Out of curiosity, do any of the British lines of ships have anything special in the game? Are the British DD or BB lines any good? 

I'm not a BB meister, so I'm not hugely informed on the RN BBs, but their reputation is as monster HE spammers, due to their HE rounds being rather good; this is probably dumb much of time, as anyone with a healing potion can recover 100% of fire damage. The conventional wisdom is that they're worth playing, but shouldn't be anyone's first BB line, due to teaching bad habits. US and IJN are first BB lines of choice. FWIW I'm only up to T7 on the RN BBs, and generally only play them in Coop.

 

The RN DDs are more my cup of tea, and I like them a lot. Excellent acceleration (they essentially have Propulsion Mod built in), and good stealth. Not hugely fast (and no speed boost consumable, aside from the premium ships), but they don't bleed much speed in the turn. Torps are a bit short-ranged, but you can stealth torp from T6 (I think), although your captain needs CE for the window to be useful. If you want to do damage, they aren't easy mode, as you really need to use guns, at which point your stealth is (obviously) shot; T9-10 are generally felt to require IFHE to do consistent damage, which is an expensive build. RN DD smoke is weird too - you get a lot of charges, but they don't last long, so you don't get to hide in smoke for half the battle; they're great for breaking contact though. The line also gets short-ranged hydro, with a long(ish) run-time; this makes those ships that get it functionally immune to torps (assuming you're awake), which is very nice - you can't do the offensive hydro thing (like Loyang and the KM DDs) really though.

 

My feeling is that the RN DDs are great fun, and pretty effective (I don't have either yet, but the T9-10 are doing very well in the overall performance stats), but their eccentricities make them more suitable as a third DD line to play - one and two should (arguably) be the IJN torp line, and the US line...

 

Edit: I forgot about the DDs' single-fire torps - they're great when you get the hang of them, but it does add another skill wall, so further suggesting 'third' line.

 

 

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1 hour ago, rnat said:

with improved angles? <- someone check me on that

Only couple premiums

 

1 hour ago, rnat said:

British BBs have the strongest HE of all BB-lines

Someone always will have "the strongest" anything. RN BB HE isn't that far off of IJN or MN BB HE, all 3 are quite comparable

 

1 hour ago, rnat said:

generally good concealment

With heavy weakness against air-spotting, especially vs floatplane spotters

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6 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Only couple premiums

Thx. Wasn't sure wether it was some premiums that had normal angles or the way it really is.

edited post to reflect that.

 

7 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Someone always will have "the strongest" anything. RN BB HE isn't that far off of IJN or MN BB HE, all 3 are quite comparable 

Got to give you that for basically all tiers 'cept t10. My mistake, was too fixated on KGV and Conq to actually make a more thorough comparison till now.

I'd remark though that it's usually ony ~1ship per tier that gets similar values (except for Monarch and QE, that get outclassed).

Also Weeb-BBs confirmed 2nd best with speschul playstyle. ^^

 

27 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

With heavy weakness against air-spotting, especially vs floatplane spotters

Only compared to the surface concealment. The air-spotting range tends to be in the middle of the pack to best of the tier from mid-tiers on.

So i wouldn't call it a heavy weakness, only relative to the strenght of the ship-ship concealment.

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6 minutes ago, rnat said:

Got to give you that for basically all tiers 'cept t10.

Why except t10?

 

Yamato and Conq 419 both have 7.3k alpha, just that Yamato lags behind in fire chance. What she lacks number of shells fired she makes up with accuracy

Meanwhile Rep and Conq 419 both have 48% fire chance, just that Rep is 1k behind in alpha (so 330 behind in actual pen dmg)

 

Quite comparable

8 minutes ago, rnat said:

The air-spotting range tends to be in the middle of the pack to best of the tier from mid-tiers on.

So i wouldn't call it a heavy weakness

With a spotter plane a you can spot a fulls stealth Conq out to 16.3km with the plane spotting Conq before you can surface spot it for about 53% of the circle. Imagine what 2x flatplanes do to that.

This reminds me, if WG goes through with their spotter plane changes (smaller flight radius) most BBs will lose their most reliable way to outspot RN BBs. Montana, for example (simply haven't tested others) will do that to Conq out to 13.88km

 

And it's a heavy weakness because air spotting range outrages the surface spotting range

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6 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Why except t10?

 

Yamato and Conq 419 both have 7.3k alpha, just that Yamato lags behind in fire chance. What she lacks number of shells fired she makes up with accuracy

Meanwhile Rep and Conq 419 both have 48% fire chance, just that Rep is 1k behind in alpha (so 330 behind in actual pen dmg)

 

Quite comparable

The Rep has similar dispersion (with better sigma) but on 8 guns with ~21s reload compared to ~26s, so you're behind 20% in dpm. Add in the alpha and that adds up to ~40%

And while i technically have to yield on the 460mms (bit worse as a package, but comparable) i refuse to acknowledge that HE-spamming Yamatos exist.

 

6 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

With a spotter plane a you can spot a fulls stealth Conq out to 16.3km with the plane spotting Conq before you can surface spot it for about 53% of the circle.

[...]

And it's a heavy weakness because air spotting range outrages the surface spotting range

... wut ?

Concealment on my Conkek: Surface: 11.8km ; Air: 12.1km

Lion gets those down to 11.5 and 10.2 resp.

How do you get to 16.3 ? Only thing on a full-stealth Conq that's close is when she's on fire (15.1 by air) or firing from smoke (16.7)

I mean Conq gets spotted easier by planes. marginally.

But not in any way siginificantly enough to call it a heavy weakness.

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I made the same mistake I started off with the british cruisers (well I am british lol) and really struggled with them up until tier 7 when you get to the fiji great ship and lots of fun the line gets better from there i.e Fiji great ship, Edinburgh was my go to ship for tier 8 ranked, Neptune I have over a million xp in her and the minotaur very fragile but also devastating. My advice is the same as others either look forward to tier 7 and suffer or try something else. I personally went American BB's and Cruisers. If you can play the old pensacola you can play anything lol.

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1 hour ago, rnat said:

The Rep has similar dispersion (with better sigma) but on 8 guns with ~21s reload compared to ~26s, so you're behind 20% in dpm. Add in the alpha and that adds up to ~40%

And while i technically have to yield on the 460mms (bit worse as a package, but comparable) i refuse to acknowledge that HE-spamming Yamatos exist.

Reps horizontal dispersion is very similar, but still slightly worse. Meanwhile vertical... French have the same "problem" as IJN - those high velocity shells get spread around a massively elongated area. RN wins massively in this regard

But yeah, 2080dmg pen vs 2410 dmg pen with identical fire chance - there's not much difference. (plus tnx to people normally misplaying Conq they actually land about the same amount of shells per min)

 

Also there are situations where it's correct to use HE in a Yamato. Like firing at GKs bow

 

1 hour ago, rnat said:

... wut ?

Concealment on my Conkek: Surface: 11.8km ; Air: 12.1km

Lion gets those down to 11.5 and 10.2 resp.

How do you get to 16.3 ? Only thing on a full-stealth Conq that's close is when she's on fire (15.1 by air) or firing from smoke (16.7)

I mean Conq gets spotted easier by planes. marginally. 

But not in any way siginificantly enough to call it a heavy weakness. 

The clue was in these points:

8 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

the plane spotting Conq before you can surface spot it for about 53% of the circle

8 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

if WG goes through with their spotter plane changes (smaller flight radius)

Spotters rotate around your ship at a 4.2km radius. 12.1 + 4.2 = 16.3km. Hence that "up to that distance" part. And yeah, WG wants to reduce that rotation radius, which is why the potential spotting distance drops despite spotters having their view range increased even beyond 15km

 

And trust me, it is a significant weakness. Just that nearly noone uses it because nearly noone knows about it. I can't remember last time I had a problem with Conq with my Montana... Being able to dominate the concealment, as in I always see him - he seems me only when I fire, is a massive advantage against anything. And with Conq being balanced around that concealment to dominate these kinds of BB on BB battles - taking that away basically strips it from most of its abilities to do anything

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just my last 2 cents: For me, the whole RN line is bit boring, i am on T7 with DDs, CLs, BBs and i don`t like to play them.

for DDs, i prefer Japan or German line, they are just  better at what they do, what is RN DD for? for gunboat it`s too squishy without working smoke, single launch torps are great, but range is too short

for cruisers, i prefer any other, got T7 or higher on any other line, those cruisers are just more versatile and much more fun to play

for BBs, they have nothing special for me. At T7, you can have funny Gneisenau, Shotgun Lyon, hard-hitting Colorado or Nagato or nice looking KJV. and at T8 there is even more fun anywhere else

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On 1/15/2019 at 8:07 AM, wilkatis_LV said:

Spotters rotate around your ship at a 4.2km radius. 12.1 + 4.2 = 16.3km. Hence that "up to that distance" part. And yeah, WG wants to reduce that rotation radius, which is why the potential spotting distance drops despite spotters having their view range increased even beyond 15km

 

And trust me, it is a significant weakness. Just that nearly noone uses it because nearly noone knows about it. I can't remember last time I had a problem with Conq with my Montana... Being able to dominate the concealment, as in I always see him - he seems me only when I fire, is a massive advantage against anything. And with Conq being balanced around that concealment to dominate these kinds of BB on BB battles - taking that away basically strips it from most of its abilities to do anything 

I indeed missed that. Prolly shouldn't browse the forum before i finish my first coffee ^^

But again Conq isn't significantly worse in that aspect that the rest of the pack, as you can do the same to any T10 BB.

Montana and Yama have about 1km less of that zone (plane-spotted before being hard spotted), being best of the bunch in that regard.

But that is entirely irrelevant for the comparison, since it's about the surface/air concealment of the one spotting it using the plane v. the air-concealment of the target. And viewed that way Conq is still top of the pack. It has to be seen in context though as

1) Conq and Rep are the ones that react worst to getting farmed among all of them (as you noted). and

2) All other T10 BBs have almost the same concealment, so they can't kite and fade back into stealth while keeping the opposition spotted without using their own aircraft to extend the spotting range, to which popping the plane is a nice counter. Didn't think of that before tbh ^^

So again it's a relative weakness. A significant one since it counters one of Conqs strenghts but it's a weakness of all the T10s.

(Btw with on average you only get an additional ~2.7km air spotting in any specific direction, though you're above that for ~56% of the time)

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