IJN Torpedoes are still way too detectable.

[Pondachi]

No point of having torpedo boats if a troglodyte in a Battleship can press WASD once and dodge all of them.

 

[Verblonde]

Just now, Amaterasu_Regale said:

No point of having torpedo boats if a troglodyte in a Battleship can press WASD once and dodge all of them.

 

Whilst the detectability of most IJN torps is widely agreed to be too high, the key word in your sentence is 'if'...

[Pondachi]

Just now, Verblonde said:

Whilst the detectability of most IJN torps is widely agreed to be too high, the key word in your sentence is 'if'...

 

So my entire gameplan is to hope that my opponent is stupid enough.

Yeah, thats not inconsistent at all.

[Allied_Winter]

Just now, Amaterasu_Regale said:

So my entire gameplan is to hope that my opponent is stupid enough.

Has been this way since forever. In the old days of stealthy IJN torps all that changed was, that you snatched a larger perecntile of the bad players. Even some average ones.

 

On top of that: What's to torp if the enemy is fleeing all the time (lemming train with you being on the wrong side)

[Tyrendian89]

1 minute ago, Amaterasu_Regale said:

 

So my entire gameplan is to hope that my opponent is stupid enough.

Yeah, thats not inconsistent at all.

welcome to every torpedoboat in the game (except point-blank yolorushes) - it's not like someone needs to spot your torpedoes in the first place to dodge them...

[Verblonde]

Is it worth recalling that it's probably just as well that torps (in general) are relatively straightforward for a competent player - so, not me then - to avoid? When one considers the amount of damage even one Shima torp (say) can do, can you imagine the uproar if they were significantly harder to spot?

 

Personally, I'd be happy if they were just on par with other torps in terms of spotting...

 

To return to the original question, anyone who isn't applying at least a bit of WASD witchcraft will get blapped and deserve it, whereas working around people trying to avoid your torps is (I suspect - still working on this aspect) where the skill with DDs comes in?

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, Amaterasu_Regale said:

 

So my entire gameplan is to hope that my opponent is stupid enough.

Yeah, thats not inconsistent at all.

That is the way ALL torpedos work.

 

"Throw Deep Water Torps" BB uses WASD 30s before they would hit --> evasion.

[Migantium_Mashum]

So adapt.. On My Shimakaze I use 8km @ 76 or 6.4km @ 81.. My Yugumo is also 8km @ 76... The closer you are the harder it is for your target to dodge them and it also helps if you don't fire at the bow or stern.. If you come in from the blind angles undetected how can they avoid them unless your firing solutions don't account for ship speed and torpedo speed? 

You don't just fire using the guide do you? You will almost certainly miss if you do...Perhaps you just need to change how you do things.

When firing my torpedoes I try not to be over 7km before firing them at my target... and I never use the 20km crap.

[Pondachi]

There's a difference between spotting them at like 2km and spotting them from the moon, which may as well be the ijn torp detection range

 

[Migantium_Mashum]

Just now, Amaterasu_Regale said:

There's a difference between spotting them at like 2km and spotting them from the moon, which may as well be the ijn torp detection range

 

So go closer before you fire them and use faster torpedoes..

[Pondachi]

Just now, Migantium_Mashum said:

So adapt.. On My Shimakaze I use 8km @ 76 or 6.4km @ 81.. My Yugumo is also 8km @ 76... The closer you are the harder it is for your target to dodge them and it also helps if you don't fire at the bow or stern.. If you come in from the blind angles undetected how can they avoid them unless you firing solutions don't account for ship speed and torpedo speed? 

You don't just fire using the guide do you? You will almost certainly miss if you do...Perhaps you just need to change how you do things.

When firing my torpedoes I try not to be over 7km before firing them at my target... and I never use the 20km crap.

 

I love how every problem in this game can apparently be solved by blaming the player. Of course I don't fire on the guide line. If it's literally only possible to hit a target consistently at extremely short distances torpedoes become pointless. I'm not going within 8km of a Kurfurst to get shredded by his guns when I could just play Harugumo and drop the same amount of damage down from safety.

[Ubertron_X]

In contrast to the detectebility of IJN torpedoes here some actual footage of a Fletcher firing a torpedo at an unsuspecting IJN battleship:

 

Spoiler

 

[Allied_Winter]

3 minutes ago, Amaterasu_Regale said:

There's a difference between spotting them at like 2km and spotting them from the moon, which may as well be the ijn torp detection range

 

Well ... let's take the Shima:

 

The 20km torpedos are the only ones that are spotted further out than the 2km you mention. So ... hyperbole much? Yeah I get it's annoying that they are easily spotted, but it doesn't solve the 'core problem' of pure torpedo boats: They rely on the enemy to blunder into them (mostly). If the enemy is competent with WASD, even a torpedo with 0.4km detection range wouldn't hit anything.

[Migantium_Mashum]

Just now, Amaterasu_Regale said:

 

I love how every problem in this game can apparently be solved by blaming the player. Of course I don't fire on the guide line. If it's literally only possible to hit a target consistently at extremely short distances torpedoes become pointless. I'm not going within 8km of a Kurfurst to get shredded by his guns when I could just play Harugumo and drop the same amount of damage down from safety.

You are the one complaining... as a Shima you should have 5.6km concealment which means the GK cannot spot you above 6km because his Hydro is not good enough.. Sounds to me like you don't know your Destroyer that well.. so yes it is down to you. FYI I love attacking GK and I attack from 6km-7km and my torpedoes never miss even if GK has Hydro up.

[Pondachi]

2 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

You are the one complaining... as a Shima you should have 5.6km concealment which means the GK cannot spot you above 6km because his Hydro is not good enough.. Sounds to me like you don't know your Destroyer that well.. so yes it is down to you. FYI I love attacking GK and I attack from 6km-7km and my torpedoes never miss even if GK has Hydro up.

 

Presuming there's nobody around, of course. Which then still relies on the other player being an idiot. Or if I get airspotted, I'm instantly dead. Meanwhile with Harugumo I can drop down consistent DPS from invisibility, safely out of range. Where's the balance in the risky playstyle being less rewarding than the safe one? When IJN Torpboats only do one thing well, they better do it better than everyone else. Which they don't, in some sort of sick irony, the US Destroyers for some reason get Torpedoes so close to the performance of IJN torpedoes whilst having guns of several magnitudes more power. Good balancing.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 12 Minuten, Migantium_Mashum sagte:

So adapt.. On My Shimakaze I use 8km @ 76 or 6.4km @ 81.. My Yugumo is also 8km @ 76... The closer you are the harder it is for your target to dodge them and it also helps if you don't fire at the bow or stern.. If you come in from the blind angles undetected how can they avoid them unless you firing solutions don't account for ship speed and torpedo speed? 

You don't just fire using the guide do you? You will almost certainly miss if you do...Perhaps you just need to change how you do things.

When firing my torpedoes I try not to be over 7km before firing them at my target... and I never use the 20km crap.

Please don't forget not to complain about radar then.

[Migantium_Mashum]

16 minutes ago, Amaterasu_Regale said:

 

Presuming there's nobody around, of course. Which then still relies on the other player being an idiot. Or if I get airspotted, I'm instantly dead. Meanwhile with Harugumo I can drop down consistent DPS from invisibility, safely out of range. Where's the balance in the risky playstyle being less rewarding than the safe one? 

If you are answering like this you're not ready for any high tier IJN and it is as simple as that... The rewards come from being aggressive and smart... If you cannot judge how to avoid air detection and surface detection with 5.6km concealment you're in the wrong tier...If you don't know the radar and hydro ranges of your enemy you're in the wrong tier... You complaints show you're not ready and if you cannot take criticism you're certainly not ready.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 11 Minuten, Amaterasu_Regale sagte:

. I'm not going within 8km of a Kurfurst to get shredded by his guns when I could just play Harugumo and drop the same amount of damage down from safety.

Of course part of the art is not to be seen. In which case the GK most likely will not hit you.

[Migantium_Mashum]

2 minutes ago, Donnerturm said:

Of course part of the art is not to be seen. In which case the GK most likely will not hit you.

How you get shredded by GK with 5.6km concealment or Yugumo @ 5.5km or even Kageroo @ 5.4km shows the OP is not ready to play IJN DD's... GK hydro is 6km.

[Migantium_Mashum]

5 minutes ago, Donnerturm said:

Please don't forget not to complain about radar then.

I never complain about radar as it rarely bothers me... I took the time to learn enemy radar ranges...

[Pondachi]

5 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

If you are answering like this you're not ready for any high tier IJN and it is as simple as that... The rewards come from being aggressive and smart... If you cannot judge how to avoid air detection and surface detection with 5.6km concealment you're in the wrong tier...If you don't know the radar and hydro ranges of your enemy your in the wrong tier... You complaints show you're not ready and if you cannot take criticism you're certainly not ready.

 

World of "Legitimately poor balancing decisions are actually the player's fault lol git gud" Warships. Your literal only argument is that I must be bad because you disagree with me because you've never had a problem with your personal experience, which is [edited]stupid lmao. 

[Verblonde]

5 minutes ago, Amaterasu_Regale said:

Presuming there's nobody around, of course. Which then still relies on the other player being an idiot. Or if I get airspotted, I'm instantly dead.

Full disclosure: I suck in Shima.

 

Most of this is standard 'Tao of DDs' stuff though, surely - you're also in as much trouble if you get radared as well, for example?

 

As said earlier, torps pretty much have to be flaky, at best, otherwise they'd be too dominant in the game. Whilst I would love my Shima to chuck out (essentially) Spearfish, only with a WW2 warhead, I know it would horribly unbalance the game if it did. Obviously, blowing up BBs is righteous and glorious, it's only sporting to give the blighters a fighting chance, no?

 

Even using the sneaky stuff outlined already (TA is a bugger for your target if they don't expect/know about it, for example), torps have to be avoidable for the good of the game.

 

Incidentally, I had a quick look earlier - most of my torp hit rates (although rubbish), seem to fall in a similar range, regardless of nation; Shima is one of the worst though...

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 10 Minuten, Amaterasu_Regale sagte:

 

Presuming there's nobody around, of course. Which then still relies on the other player being an idiot. Or if I get airspotted, I'm instantly dead. Meanwhile with Harugumo I can drop down consistent DPS from invisibility, safely out of range. Where's the balance in the risky playstyle being less rewarding than the safe one? When IJN Torpboats only do one thing well, they better do it better than everyone else. Which they don't, in some sort of sick irony, the US Destroyers for some reason get Torpedoes so close to the performance of IJN torpedoes whilst having guns of several magnitudes more power. Good balancing.

Well, then the problem is solved: play Harugumo instead of Shima. If you do not like thetorp boats from IJN play the boats you enjoy playing.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 1 Minute, Migantium_Mashum sagte:

I never complain about radar as it rarely bothers me... I took the time to learn enemy radar ranges...

Good man.

[Pondachi]

Just now, Donnerturm said:

Well, then the problem is solved: play Harugumo instead of Shima. If you do not like thetorp boats from IJN play the boats you enjoy playing.

 

Whats the point of expending effort into ships that simply don't work unless the enemy team are literally stupid?