Smokescreen and AAA

[B051LjKo]

Can someone please explain me the logic of the following.

 

1. Heavy smokescreen, cant see nothing, plane flys over smoke screen

2. Whole squadron dies in 3 seconds

3. Cruiser with defensive fire annihilates the whole squadron while remaining cloaked

 

Where is the common sense in that? That is just so retarded. How can a vessel behind a smoke screen hit anything in the air?

[Procrastes]

Any ship or plane that is visible to at least one enemy ship, is also automatically visible to each of that enemy's team mates.

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

 How can a vessel behind a smoke screen hit anything in the air?

 

Because its a game?

[Spithas]

Someone else spots the planes then the cruiser in the smoke shoots them down.

Same logic way your planes would still be able to hit the CA if it was radared in the smoke by someone else.

Common sense wise if you just fire all the flak or just drop bombs into the smoke both can hit... it's not impossible. It's how the tirpitz was bombed.

[Miragetank90]

''I say George - do you hear that?''

''Bloody 'ell Bill! This can of repellent made a whole lot of this mist, but those bugs just won't leave us alone! I'll get the mosquito coil''

''Just shoot the sky Dammit.''

''I can't see Bill! This mist makes my eyes watery!''

''PLAY IT BY EAR!''

 

Hope that explains it

[RAHJAILARI]

Hmmmh... Well airplanes are fast right? So why just leave your planes to hover right on top of an obviously angry smokescreen long enough for them all to get shot down, I wonder? It should be simple enough to move them somewhat further away, where that won't happen, they could be of more use and perhaps also do some damage to the enemy too instead of just taking it in. Just a thought.

[B051LjKo]

48 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

Any ship or plane that is visible to at least one enemy ship, is also automatically visible to each of that enemy's team mates.

It is just stupid. At minimum it should not stay cloaked since he is firing at the plan from point blank range. Game or not, it is just retarded.

[ForlornSailor]

4 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

It is just stupid. At minimum it should not stay cloaked since he is firing at the plan from point blank range. Game or not, it is just retarded.

 

No its not. Its called teamplay. Stop asking to remove more and more aspects of teamplay because you watn to turn this into a solo game. It ruined too many things by now.

[pra3y]

9 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

It is just stupid. At minimum it should not stay cloaked since he is firing at the plan from point blank range. Game or not, it is just retarded.

Why not? The smokescreen is not a forcefield. Just like how that CA can kill your planes, you can manually drop torps or bombs into the smoke. If you play a non-CV ship and is decent enough, you can shoot and hit the target in smoke. Its not like smoked ship is invulnerable.

 

Plus if you're potato engh to fly yr planes near smoke clouds without knowing what is in it im afraid you're a potato.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, B051LjKo said:

Can someone please explain me the logic of the following.

I'll try... might get a bit funny though.

 

1 hour ago, B051LjKo said:

1. Heavy smokescreen, cant see nothing, plane flys over smoke screen

Not true dude. Yes you can see. You saw a smokescreen. What do you think is in it? Maybe Santa. Maybe Kim Kardashian. But I do not think so.

You can check the minimap & use TAB for teamlist. What ships were near, which ones are still visible, which sunk? You can be fairly sure which ones are in it.

 

1 hour ago, B051LjKo said:

2. Whole squadron dies in 3 seconds

Well you have learned something. Either they fart a lot or it's something that has fat AA.

Might be two Texas BBs with full AA in it. Or 3 Atlantas. Maybe even a Flint. or something.

 

1 hour ago, B051LjKo said:

3. Cruiser with defensive fire annihilates the whole squadron while remaining cloaked

I do not play CVs, but hiow are you sure it's a cruiser in there, or did he get detected?

It may be Kim kardashian with a bad case of onion/garlic gas. 

 

1 hour ago, B051LjKo said:

Where is the common sense in that? That is just so retarded. How can a vessel behind a smoke screen hit anything in the air?

No man. Retarded is to fly over smokescreens when you have no idea what is in it.

Same as sailing near one. I wasn't looking for Kim Kardashian, but at least expected a mermaid or something interesting in it. 

Guess what, there were two DDs sitting in it and they blew my BB full of rather big holes. But hey, that was in T3... 

 

Now I just shoot into the smoke. Yesterday I kill-shotted a DD. Dead T9 DD, hey presto.

You can do that too, or drop torps into that screen. That will teach them. 

Of course if you think Santa or Kim is in there, maybe not. 

 

[Corvi]

In beta you got spotted in smoke when you had your AA on. I think that was quite a nice mechanic.

[El2aZeR]

In the rework you can judge quite accurately where a ship is based on the flak tracers. 

[B051LjKo]

On 1/9/2019 at 2:37 PM, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'll try... might get a bit funny though.

 

You really need to work on your sense for humor. I hope you don't earn your money as a comedian. 

On 1/9/2019 at 2:37 PM, BLUB__BLUB said:

Not true dude. Yes you can see. You saw a smokescreen. What do you think is in it? Maybe Santa. Maybe Kim Kardashian. But I do not think so.

 

 

Who cares what is inside. It can be santa, or Kim Kardashian, who cares. The smoke screen is there to hide it. It is not transparent. You cant see what is inside, neither should they be able to see outside. It makes the whole concept of smokescreen rediculous. 

 

On 1/9/2019 at 2:37 PM, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well you have learned something. Either they fart a lot or it's something that has fat AA.

Might be two Texas BBs with full AA in it. Or 3 Atlantas. Maybe even a Flint. or something.

Or it can be an island, with 10 000, 88 mm flak guns pointing in the sky, who cares, they cant see or aim anything. At best ,if radar assist, they should have severe penalty, and I mean severe.

 

On 1/9/2019 at 2:37 PM, BLUB__BLUB said:

I do not play CVs, but hiow are you sure it's a cruiser in there, or did he get detected?

It may be Kim kardashian with a bad case of onion/garlic gas. 

It doesnt matter, same goes for the DD inside HE spamming, while still being hidden. The idea that you can see the tracer, but can not see the ship is just stupid. Same goes fdor cruisers camping behind the island. You cant shoot a naval gun with no line of sight and expect to hit something. It just doesn't work. You shouldnt be able to see the vessel to begin with,m and if seen by your teammates, it should be minimap only. At worst, the accuracy penalty should be severe. 

On 1/9/2019 at 2:37 PM, BLUB__BLUB said:

Now I just shoot into the smoke. Yesterday I kill-shotted a DD. Dead T9 DD, hey presto.

You can do that too, or drop torps into that screen. That will teach them. 

Of course if you think Santa or Kim is in there, maybe not. 

I've been with WoT since the begging, tried WOWS when it was released, didn't like it, now I am trying again, and it is still not good. Check the tactics, it has nothing to do with how these ships were used. The best tactical maneuver of any naval battle (T crossing) works horrible for the one who manages to pull it of. Battleships are camping by not moving and facing bow. And that is the best tactics? That is the current meta? It is just wrong. Complete loss of touch with ''reality''. They might as well include Klingon Bird of prey, or similar fantasy vessels. It would not hurt the game experience. 

 

 

[Namuras]

16 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

 

[...]

Check the tactics, it has nothing to do with how these ships were used. The best tactical maneuver of any naval battle (T crossing) works horrible for the one who manages to pull it of. Battleships are camping by not moving and facing bow. And that is the best tactics? That is the current meta? It is just wrong. Complete loss of touch with ''reality''. They might as well include Klingon Bird of prey, or similar fantasy vessels. It would not hurt the game experience. 

 

Crossing the T died with the age of sail... 

 

As for the rest of you complaints: it is not a simulation, but an action mmo. So aslong as someone else is spotting for them, ships inside of smoke can and will shoot at whatever without problem. 

 

Wonder why you didn't like the gamemechanics in WoWs from the start, but somehow managed to stay with WoT and the everpresent cloaks all around?

[Ubertron_X]

On 1/9/2019 at 1:26 PM, B051LjKo said:

How can a vessel behind a smoke screen hit anything in the air? 

[Exocet6951]

28 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

The best tactical maneuver of any naval battle (T crossing) works horrible for the one who manages to pull it of.

 

Hold on, let me ask the Yamato to see how well crossing the T would have worked out for it.

[DFens_666]

36 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

It doesnt matter, same goes for the DD inside HE spamming, while still being hidden. The idea that you can see the tracer, but can not see the ship is just stupid. Same goes fdor cruisers camping behind the island. You cant shoot a naval gun with no line of sight and expect to hit something. It just doesn't work. You shouldnt be able to see the vessel to begin with,m and if seen by your teammates, it should be minimap only. At worst, the accuracy penalty should be severe.

 

1. Its still a game... if you dont like the mechanics -> play something else ?!

2. If everyone would need to spot for themselves.. man that would be a crap game.

[B051LjKo]

45 minutes ago, Namuras said:

 

Crossing the T died with the age of sail... 

 

 

Tell that to the High Sea Fleet at Jutland

 

45 minutes ago, Namuras said:

 

As for the rest of you complaints: it is not a simulation, but an action mmo. So aslong as someone else is spotting for them, ships inside of smoke can and will shoot at whatever without problem. 

 

I know they can, that is the problem.

 

45 minutes ago, Namuras said:

Wonder why you didn't like the gamemechanics in WoWs from the start, but somehow managed to stay with WoT and the everpresent cloaks all around?

 

WoT cloak is gone after you fire at point blank range. DDs do not have problems with shooting at the vessel from point blank range maintaining their cloak. 

 

And no, WoT never solved the spotting issue either.

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, B051LjKo said:

The best tactical maneuver of any naval battle (T crossing) works horrible for the one who manages to pull it of.

 

Holy . Are you really telling us, that you trying "Crossing the T" in this game? And thinking, this is intelligent and suppose to make you win? O M F G. But yea, guys, we start to see explanations for all those ships going broadside infront of us. They are all dressed as Admiral Nelsons in front of their PC, exercising "perfect naval tactics". The terms "Captain beach commander" or "armchair admirals" have never been more accurate.

[B051LjKo]

33 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

1. Its still a game... if you dont like the mechanics -> play something else ?!

 

 

So your suggestion is to disable reply option in the gameplay section, just add ''If you dont like the mechanics -> play something else'' message and lock the thread?

 

33 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

2. If everyone would need to spot for themselves.. man that would be a crap game.

Not really, as long as you have direct line of sight, someone else can spot for you. Alternatively, add a penalty for shooting at the field with no direct line of sight and the problem is solved. 

[Aotearas]

1 hour ago, B051LjKo said:

The best tactical maneuver of any naval battle (T crossing)

Okay, this is just horribly uninformed nonsense.

 

Crossing the T is a tactic from the bygone age of wooden sailing ships exchanging broadsides and I can tell you exactly why:

 

• What should be obvious if one just looked at such an ship-of-the-line of the sailing age is that basically all its firepower is concentrated on its broadside, with little to none cannons firing directly for- or rearward. Hence sailing broadside to the enemy meant you could project maximum firepower, whilst a ship sailing either directly at or away from another ship had little to no offensive capabilities.
• Secondly in those old days, armour wasn't a thing and a solid iron shot had increasingly devastating effects the more of a ship it had to fly through. Hence sailing broadside didn't only maximize one's own firepower, it also minimized the potential damage as a solid shot punching through the width of the ship had a lot less ship (and seamen) to pass through on the way than if the shot went through lengthwise when a ship was hit sailing directly towards or away from the one shooting at it. See "raking fire"

 

 

Crossing the T ceased to be a legitimate tactic with the advance in naval, protective and offensive engineering:

 

• With the emergence of ironclads, ship protection advanced to such a point that the thickness of protection was the deciding factor in survivability, far less so where they got hit. Look up the Battle of Hampton Roads where USS Monitor and CSS Virginia spent days ineffectually bouncing shots off one another. In stark contrast, the CSS Virgina was in full progress of utterly demolishing sailing warships that had little effective protection, until the USS Monitor showed up to interdict and save what remained of the USS Minnesota.
• Speaking of the USS Monitor, with the developement and deployment of rotating turrets, naval architects suddenly had a way of mounting their weaponry in less static positions, allowing warships in turn to keep tracking targets with the maximum amount of guns without necessitating a broadside course.
• Last but not least, with weapon capabilities and gunnery evolving into more and more effective range, not getting hit eventually became the prime defensive methodology in naval warfare, with ships engaging in defensive manouvering (whilst keeping their own guns firing via the means of rotating turrets of course).
• Expanding on the weapon capability and firing/combat range increase, plunging hits became a much more serious concern for naval architects than presenting any kind of broadside. Armour protection was redefined into a save zone, which describes a range interval to the enemy in which a ship is, by virtue of armour protection and impact angles protected against a predefined offender (say 16'' guns).

 

 

Even the much quoted Battle of the Surigao Street is falsely credited with spreading the nonsense of crossing the T still being a relevant tactic in modern baval warfare. What actually won that battle decisively was the employment of destroyers in a devastating torpedo crossfire as the IJN line advanced up the strait, well prior to any capital ship engagement. By the time the US battleship line, the infamous T, actually sprung into action what was left of the IJN taskforce was one battleship, one heavy cruiser and one destroyer, up against the combined USN battleship fleet. They could've been arranged in literally any other formation than a crossing firing line and would've crushed what little remained of the japanese.

 

 

14 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Tell that to the High Sea Fleet at Jutland

 

 

You mean the one that despite getting crossed (twice, iirc) suffered no worse damage than the supposedly superiour positioned RN fleet?

 

Hmm, why would that be. Surely it has nothing to do with modern armour, evasive manouvering doctrines or some such black magic.

[B051LjKo]

2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Holy . Are you really telling us, that you trying "Crossing the T" in this game? And thinking, this is intelligent and suppose to make you win?

No, I am trying to enjoy the game. You don't have to be intelligent to play a game, or to participate in the forums. You are the living proof of that.

 

2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

They are all dressed as Admiral Nelsons in front of their PC, exercising "perfect naval tactics". The terms "Captain beach commander" or "armchair admirals" have never been more accurate.

 

Can you please share a single battle in the history of naval warfare where the winning tactics was parking the battleship facing bow, no movements, just acting as shore artillery, with cruiser supporting from the back with no direct line of sights, and destroyers laying a smokescreen around them selves and then shooting at BBs at 7 km away?

[DanSilverwing]

On 1/9/2019 at 12:26 PM, B051LjKo said:

Where is the common sense in that? That is just so retarded. How can a vessel behind a smoke screen hit anything in the air?

RNG. The ship put up a 'wall of flak'. Planes flew into the wall. Planes got shot down. What you never see is the hundreds of rounds expended that simply missed.

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, B051LjKo said:

No, I am trying to enjoy the game. You don't have to be intelligent to play a game, or to participate in the forums. You are the living proof of that.

 

Nope, its the people that throw the first personal insults, who show, they lack intelligence and have no arguments to support their position.

 

2 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Can you please share a single battle in the history of naval warfare....blabla

 

I will not. Its irrelevant, has nothing to do with this game. Share us a single battle in WoWs where a braodside BB crossing infront of a bow-on BB won. IF you could do that - which you cant - you COULD have a point in this discussion.

[B051LjKo]

2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Nope, its the people that throw the first personal insults, who show, they lack intelligence and have no arguments to support their position.

 

No, throwing insults is not the sign of lack of intelligence, that is just rude. And I was not being rude, I was just stating an obvious fact.

 

2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

I will not. Its irrelevant, has nothing to do with this game. 

Thank you for your comments.