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Saltface

What If?

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Happy New Year to all as this is the first post of mine for 2019.

 

This post is putting forward a hypothesis for critical analysis and argument.

As such, it is in the Gameplay section and not in the Proposals to WG.

Should the result of the discussion be positive (the hypothesis is valid) then we could consider a proposal to the development team.

 

Here it goes:

 

What if same team collisions (green with green) result in same damage as if ones vessel collides with an enemy vessel?

 

Would that improve gameplay? 

Would that make players more attentive to what is happening around them?

Would the game benefit in any way or form?

 

Looking forward to reading your comments, critique and suggestions.

 

My humble opinion is that we would have a totally new game in our hands. More organized and structured. Less cluster____ (add a four letter word)

 

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7 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Would that improve gameplay? 

Would that make players more attentive to what is happening around them?

Would the game benefit in any way or form?

  • no
  • yes
  • no
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19 hours ago, Saltface said:

What if same team collisions (green with green) result in same damage as if ones vessel collides with an enemy vessel?

Hitting other ships and hitting islands is all part of it being a single player game. As a new player I spent most of my time humping islands, and since then I spend a lot of time bouncing off other ships and occasionally humping islands, or the map edge. 

 

It's hardly a feature of the game at all beyond everyone trying to hide behind the same island or occasionally two ship trying to avoid fire bumping into each other. Making BB players less risk adverse and sticking carriers - post update - in their own games where people can choose to deal with their [edited] would be much better ideas. 

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It might make some players more attentive, but it would also be a griefer's wildest dreams come true. I don't think the current system harms the game, so I'm afraid I can't see this idea improving the game.

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It would of course be far more realistic as almost all the collisions in real life were by ships on the same side. However this is an arcade game and having such a rule would result in a preponderance of pink ships!

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I agree with the pink ship scenario, maybe after all it is a bad idea.

That is why it was proposed as a hypothesis.

It would make players more attentive for sure.

I don't really know about adding in the game-play, the idea came by watching my son play Call of Duty. They have a game mode among others that friendly fire does kill you and you don't re spawn. It was a more carefull game-play.

Anyways, food for thought.

Thank you for the comments.

Very useful to hear what more experienced players have to say.

 

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8 hours ago, Saltface said:

#1 Would that improve gameplay? 

#2 Would that make players more attentive to what is happening around them?

#3 Would the game benefit in any way or form?

 

#1 - yes

#2 - no

#3 - yes

 

And a bit more detailed:

 

#1 anything that calls for people being less oblivios to their surroundings is potentially a good idea. Doing the same, full damage might be a wee bit too much though. I guess 50% of the damage that would be done to an enemy ship should be enough

 

#2 The problem would be, that many players still would sail on, eyes glued to the periscope view, oblivious to their surroundings - allies, enemies, torpedoes, planes, islands, Godzilla coming from the depths of the waters... - and all those potatoes would still potate as hard as always. But at least they would be penalized by getting damage, which might enhance the chances that they get sunk by enemies earlier and therefor removed from battle. Or they might even turn pink and get restricted to play only CoOp sooner or later, which would also be a positive result, as they wouldn't bugger the less potatoish players any longer...

 

#3 As said under #2, it might help to get potatoes to play where they fit better than in random battles -> CoOp - which I think would be a very beneficial result

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18 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

 

#1 - yes

#2 - no

 

 

#2 The problem would be, that many players still would sail on, eyes glued to the periscope view, oblivious to their surroundings - allies, enemies, torpedoes, planes, islands, Godzilla coming from the depths of the waters... - and all those potatoes would still potate as hard as always. But at least they would be penalized by getting damage, which might enhance the chances that they get sunk by enemies earlier and therefor removed from battle. Or they might even turn pink and get restricted to play only CoOp sooner or later, which would also be a positive result, as they wouldn't bugger the less potatoish players any longer...

 

 

And the other guy...

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

And the other guy...

 

Ah, but that's okay... either he's a potato too, so it's "kill two horses with one stone" or he isn't, then he does some battles in CoOp and is back to random in a whiffy, while the real potato will continue to hump allied ships - even bots - in CoOp and stay there 'til the end of time or WG stops the servers (whatever comes first)

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9 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

yes

 

FXLThSZ.jpg

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Vor 2 Stunden, Deckeru_Maiku sagte:

 

Ah, but that's okay... either he's a potato too, so it's "kill two horses with one stone" or he isn't, then he does some battles in CoOp and is back to random in a whiffy, while the real potato will continue to hump allied ships - even bots - in CoOp and stay there 'til the end of time or WG stops the servers (whatever comes first)

Always think about that other guy being yourself. At the start of a battle somebody hits you - half HP gone. Ine the middle of the battle you are fighting ferociously, a less aware team member hits you - both are dead, enemy overruns rest of your team. You lose.

Not sure what that would do to the blood pressure of many players.

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I love your thinking OP. You forgot one thing though: a lot of players don't read patchnotes. Can you imagine the rage in chat and on these forums when they all start taking massive damage for no apparant reason?

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14 hours ago, Saltface said:

 

My humble opinion is that we would have a totally new game in our hands. More organized and structured. Less cluster____ (add a four letter word)

 

 

Respectfully disagree.

Would be so unfun to get destroyed by the BB Players that try to hide in your smoke when you play an UK Cruiser or a DD, it also would be massively unfun to get rammed out by players that panic turn out lose almost all their health and hit you with 5khp left in the Side and depending on what you sail either severely cripple or outright sink you.

On that matter it would give some of the more dispicable players an easier tool to just outright grief you with a ram...

No thanks i really would not appreciate this mechanic change :/

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We had this in beta.

The current system is way better. Small mistakes by teammates should not cost you half your hitpoints. 

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16 hours ago, Saltface said:

What if same team collisions (green with green) result in same damage as if ones vessel collides with an enemy vessel?

 

a) Would that improve gameplay? 

b) Would that make players more attentive to what is happening around them?

c) Would the game benefit in any way or form?

 

15 hours ago, ColonelPete said:
  • a) no
  • b) yes
  • c) no

This.

 

Having collisions do full damage to allied ships would quickly put that at the top of the cause of death list. Ships in game start out, and continue to maneuver, in much closer proximity to each other than they would in most real life combat situations. And the same goes for islands, for that matter - aside from (ex) Captain Francesco Schettino of the Costa Concordia, no ship commander would ever deliberately sail as close to land as is the norm in World of Warships. I have lost count of the times I have accidentally bumped into an allied ship, or sailed onto an island. In the former case I have typed a quick apology in chat and kept on driving, while in the latter I have of course ended up in any number of difficulties depending on the tactical situation - but I am quite happy to be able to say that none of these collisions have immediately, in and of themselves, ended my naval career.

 

Full collision damage when driving into an ally or an island, would most likely destroy the gameplay. It would mean not only that game after game would be ruined simply due to slight cases of inattention or miscalculation by oneself or a nearby team mate, but also an instant power-boost to all griefers out there. For my part, I would be sailing around in constant dread. My main aim in any battle would change from sinking enemy ships, into not sinking an ally. The game would turn from a naval battles arcade experience into a crash course derby. It would be bad.

 

That said, Captain @Saltface, please accept my compliments for a well conceived thread! Brainstorming and discussions on game mechanics are good for keeping the game vital. Happy New Year to you as well!:Smile_honoring:

 

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15 hours ago, Saltface said:

I agree with the pink ship scenario, maybe after all it is a bad idea.

That is why it was proposed as a hypothesis.

It would make players more attentive for sure.

I don't really know about adding in the game-play, the idea came by watching my son play Call of Duty. They have a game mode among others that friendly fire does kill you and you don't re spawn. It was a more carefull game-play.

Anyways, food for thought.

Thank you for the comments.

Very useful to hear what more experienced players have to say.

 

first 

 

Welcome to the Forum....

 

It used to be like this.. That collision  Green on Green did almost the same damage as Green on Red. It was there in the closed beta... It ruined game play..  Even the best players in the world hit friendly ships sometimes. It would not really make people more attentive of the surroundings. All it would do is make people more salty at each other.  Also an accidental collision could end the game.. just think 2 ships collide at start , one team is 2 ships down before the fleets even spot each other. 

 

Also pink ship scenario.. This and the punishments was brought in to stop the greafers that have fun destroying others fun by attacking friendly's. IF we did not go pink because of ramming these greafers would have a field day..

 

 

As for realism.. It douse not even add to that.. as distances between ships in game is way way closer than it would ever be at sea. Just look at Jutland.. Beattys ships (in close formation) were in 3 columns with about 5km between each column and this was close formation. Even the ships in the same column probably had a good Km or more between them

Also  very few if any battles were in such proximity to land and Islands as we have in game 

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I remember Beta as being more unfriendly in this regard, too.

 

But I have to admit, I would find it helpful, if hitting islands would result in some damage to the ship. No catastrophic damage, but some damage nevertheless. 

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1 hour ago, Procrastes said:

Ships in game start out, and continue to maneuver, in much closer proximity to each other than they would in most real life combat situations

 

Plus IRL you have different people responsible for different roles whereas in game the captain, helmsman and gunnery officer are all combined into one.

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3 hours ago, T0byJug said:

......As for realism.. It douse not even add to that.. as distances between ships in game is way way closer than it would ever be at sea. Just look at Jutland.. Beattys ships (in close formation) were in 3 columns with about 5km between each column and this was close formation. Even the ships in the same column probably had a good Km or more between them...

 

Both main bodies at Jutland (Scheer and Jellicoe) had issues when they manouevered 'drastically' and a lot f ships risked collision both between same column ships and also between columns:-

 

Scheer - during both battle turn aways, some had to take avoidance actions (slowing to stationary etc) to prevent collisions.

Jellicoe - during the deployment from column to battle line, had the same issues as Scheer above.

 

While the distances between columns for all was decent, the distance between ships within each column  (or battle line once formed) was not great (away for my sources currently so cannot add more detail to that). 

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35 minutes ago, philjd said:

Both main bodies at Jutland (Scheer and Jellicoe) had issues when they manouevered 'drastically' and a lot f ships risked collision both between same column ships and also between columns:-

 

Scheer - during both battle turn aways, some had to take avoidance actions (slowing to stationary etc) to prevent collisions.

Jellicoe - during the deployment from column to battle line, had the same issues as Scheer above.

 

While the distances between columns for all was decent, the distance between ships within each column  (or battle line once formed) was not great (away for my sources currently so cannot add more detail to that). 

Thats what i mean and thats with 5km between columns and 1 km between ships in column

1329668564_51GAOxsdCL.jpg.8b734b71b3bb849db516ff3abfb3ed28.jpg

On side note.. This book is fantastic read....

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21 hours ago, Saltface said:

My humble opinion is that we would have a totally new game in our hands.

Indeed

 

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2 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

Plus IRL you have different people responsible for different roles whereas in game the captain, helmsman and gunnery officer are all combined into one.

Very true; this is another one reason why I think it would be somewhat unfair to have an insta-kill mechanic tied to collisions with allied ships and (neutral) islands.

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Dear @Procrastes, thank you for your compliment. One, adores constructive discussions and criticism. Happy New Year once again.

 

Gentlemen, (I failed to recognize a lady in the posts so kindly excuse me if I have overseen)

I do recognize the complexity of the hypothesis. Indeed, on second thoughts, after reading your replies, I understand that most probably, as @Procrastes said, the game focus would shift from "gunnery arcade" to avoiding collisions exercises.

 

Further to that, as several of you kind gentlemen mentioned, the somewhat lacking in attentiveness team mates (on both sides) or for that matter our fellow tunnel vision prompt  co players would unjustly penalize themselves and the unlucky teammate with whom they collided. Rather complicated and unfair, I agree.

 

Also, taking into account that this is an arcade game (with a Naval Flavor or lets say Naval Graphics) and by no means a Naval Simulation, I think the overall hypothesis should be rejected. However, I do find merit in @The_Pillager's comment that bumping into land masses should be associated with some damage to one's own ship.

 

I will request you to accept my apology for posting this as I was unaware that this same issue was beta tested. Should I have known I would most probably not bring it up. Nevertheless, it was a real pleasure reading from all of you. Most constructive.

However, I find it most annoying when they "bump" on my vessel. Maybe a projection from real life, that obviously should not be as this is a game. Still, I will try to avoid "bumping" into land masses and other players to the best of my ability. As @Capra76 noticed, the crew in the game is a one man show.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I will request you to accept my apology for posting this as I was unaware that this same issue was beta tested. Should I have known I would most probably not bring it up. Nevertheless, it was a real pleasure reading from all of you. Most constructive.

However, I find it most annoying when they "bump" on my vessel. Maybe a projection from real life, that obviously should not be as this is a game. Still, I will try to avoid "bumping" into land masses and other players to the best of my ability. As @Capra76 noticed, the crew in the game is a one man show.

Please, Captain, there is no need to apologize for bringing up the subject. A lot of stuff that was alpha- and beta-tested have since been subject to further discussions in an ever-changing game environment.

 

And you're right that it can be annoying when someone drives into you. One should obviously try to be careful to avoid "allied collisions" if possible, and not just because it deals team damage to both ships. As a rule, I type an apology in chat whenever I have been part in a collision with an allied ship, irrespective of whose fault it may be thought to be - as a gesture of simple courtesy, if nothing else. Accidents will happen, and as long as people are polite about it, it's really not an issue.

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