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ABED1984

Tirpitz or Massachusetts?

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Both ships Tirpitz or Massachusetts have good secondaries but which is more reliant than the other especially in T10 MM?

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6 hours ago, ABED1984 said:

Both ships Tirpitz or Massachusetts have good secondaries but which is more reliant than the other especially in T10 MM?

Massachusetts only has 18k shooting range and a slow top speed of 27 knots, something you should keep in mind playing at T10. It has a plane to shoot further, but only using it for a short time when you can. You can extend the main battery guns to 21k with the plotting Room module (but doing it at the expense of sacrificing not using the secondary gun module). Not something you really want to do if going for the full secondary spec build.

 

The Tirpitz already has 21.45k shooting range and plane for using to extend that range even further. It also has torps, which is plus factor in T10 matches that the Massachusetts lacks for close up brawling with T10 BB. So I'd say the Massachusetts is only really better in T10 matches than the Tirpitz because of its more powerful main battery guns. But you may struggle to put them to good use with a short base firing range of only 18k.

 

AA on the Massachusetts  is awesome though, far better than Tirpitz to combat CV planes.

 

I have not played the Tirpitz to know what its main battery guns are like (pen wise) at T10. I've had the Massachusetts B and it's main battery guns seem pretty okay to use at that level, just that short base firing range of 18k limits you "somewhat" in T10 matches at the start. Mostly because T10 games tend to be more of a stand-off and shoot at distance type games for BB's at the very start.

 

I think having already played the Massachusetts B at T10. I would probably go for the Tirpitz now due to its better flexibility playing at T10. I found that short 18k main battery range was too much of an issue at T10, plus I wasn't willing to lose the secondary build on the ship just to extend it to 21k to suit playing T10 matches better.

 

I think ship building wise, it's easier to make a decision which way to go with the Tirpitz. It's AA is only average, so the obvious choice is build secondary guns instead. The Massachusetts though has both good AA and Secondary, so you're kind of stuck between building either the AA or Secondary further - or doing neither with the AA/Secondary module and extending the main battery guns instead using Plotting Room. Easier decision to make with the Tirpitz, as it's rather pointless going the AA build route instead of secondary (not worth it for the AA), and its main battery guns are okay on range already

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Tirpitz any day if you're asking me. 

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greetings.

 

Thread cleared.

 

Answer OP's question, and don't go off-topic, don't post if you have nothing useful to say, thank you.

 

Admiral Hierrark

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Tirpitz, it just fits better with the general KM commander and torps is a uniqur flair over its tech tree counterparts.

 

That said, Massa is overall a better ship imo.

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On 1/6/2019 at 10:54 AM, Affeks said:

Tirpitz, it just fits better with the general KM commander and torps is a uniqur flair over its tech tree counterparts.

 

That said, Massa is overall a better ship imo.

I completely agree with the first sentence. Massa requires a dedicated commander to leverage its pros.

 

For the second part - it's of course a matter of personal preference, but I find Tirpitz better for me. It's just better for brawling and CQB, while at longer range both suck. If I could trade my Massa B for Alabama, I would.

Also don't forget that Massa's secondary shells are sent via US postal services and take ages to reach their target.

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On 1/8/2019 at 10:45 AM, almitov said:

For the second part - it's of course a matter of personal preference, but I find Tirpitz better for me. It's just better for brawling and CQB, while at longer range both suck. If I could trade my Massa B for Alabama, I would.

Also don't forget that Massa's secondary shells are sent via US postal services and take ages to reach their target.

personally disagree. Tirpitz is too crippled when up tiered where a lot of cruisers have 27mm platings. Not only that, but the far inferior turret layout makes for some bad mid range effectiveness in matchups where you cant play super aggressive. To top it off the half CD heal Massa gets lets her get away from some sticky situations.

 

But I agree, Alabama > Massachusetts... buuut then again NC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alabama, even more so now that NC got .66 heal and buffed rudder.

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17 hours ago, Affeks said:

personally disagree

 

From what I can see you are a better player than me, so maybe you are also better at making the Massa work.

I find the secondary spec mostly useless on this ship and a waste of modules/points... and it's its main gimmick. The heal is nice though. 

Tbh I somewhat regret buying it.

 

18 hours ago, Affeks said:

Alabama > Massachusetts... buuut then again NC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alabama

NC is a keeper for me. Sadly my stats in this ship are not that good because I've played most of my games in it while still learning the basics - the USN BB line was my first. When I play it now the results are a lot better.

 

18 hours ago, Affeks said:

Tirpitz is too crippled when up tiered where a lot of cruisers have 27mm platings. Not only that, but the far inferior turret layout makes for some bad mid range effectiveness in matchups where you cant play super aggressive.

I never found the lack of overmatch capability a real issue - when they are bow-on to me, I just focus my secondaries on them while shooting something else. As for the turret layout - yup, it sucks.

For me it seems similar to Massa and NC when it comes to Tirpitz and Bismarck. The latter is just better as it has hydro, allowing for much more aggressive gameplay. The torps on Tirpitz are mostly unusable - a couple of HE hits and they're gone.

Overall for KM BBs for me what best works is to be near islands close to a capture point and bully everything that comes near. The island cover allows you to pick your fights - otherwise you may get focused and killed very fast. As most of the targets will be CA/CL/DD, that also helps stat-padding :D

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I prefer Massachusetts, although both are tremendous fun to play.

 

Massa, as has been mentioned, needs her own captain at at least 18 points. Her main guns are better than Tirpitz and she can angle/bow on to targets and do more main damage that way, of course at parallel brawling angles (~90deg to enemy guns) she suffers more than Tirp due to Tirps better armour profile but I find if I can control the engagement I can use her bow to blap an enemy down before it gets to that stage. Also, while she has a uniform 5in secondary suite, having the captain specced for secondaries means you will absolutely pepper anything in range of them, constantly. I have had a double strike on DDs before using this spec.

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In case you haven't made your choice yet, yup, forget Tirpitz, you would go from frustrations to frustrations.

 

I own both and I don't want even to play that german BB. In comparison, when uptiered the game is still fine with Massachusetts (is secondaries specced). I play her sitting somewhat on choke points and sometime running assaults. Quite everything is better on her : main accuracy and power (i regularly got citadel), secondaries, anti-air, torpedo caisson, faster heal. German BB line is completely outdated and obsolete : IFHE spam burn them, AP penetrate them and planes harass and burn/leak/citadel them. Forget them and save your money for now.

 

note : the only thin is that you would have to put on her a whole new captain given that you will probably choose to specc her for secondaries (fun and good choice)

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Dont own Tirp but i will. Huge advantage of the Tirpitz vs Massa are armor layout and torps and speed. In a straight up 1 vs 1 Massa stands little chance. She cant outrun Tirp, cant citadel it, without support Tirpitz will take Massa down almost with ease.

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5 hours ago, McGregorski said:

IFHE spam burn them,

All BBs are vulnerable to HE-spam and except for the Yamato (and Izumo) the KM BBs are the most resilient to HE-spam over-all

Literally the worst example you could have picked.

 

5 hours ago, McGregorski said:

AP penetrate them

Again, it does that to ALL BBs if you don't angle carefully and most of those aren't nearly citadel proof like the Germans (except the British)

So again not a good example.

 

5 hours ago, McGregorski said:

planes harass and burn/leak/citadel them

A good, high tier CV does not really give much of a crap which (solo) BB he/she attacks unless it's literally a USN fast BB, JB or Rep fully build for AA (and even that that just slows them down if they really want you dead)

 

This is a good point in the Massas favour but not against the KM v most other lines.

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Did a comparison of  sorts earlier, and I have to say..They're both good.

shot-19.05.19_17.51.09-0867.jpg

shot-19.05.19_17.51.15-0261.jpg

shot-19.05.19_18.35.03-0792.jpg

shot-19.05.19_18.35.08-0466.jpg

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Massachusetts for me , I have both and while secondary's look the same'ish on paper German secondary's only scare away DD's mostly,

Massachusetts will shred a DD that strays too close.

yes you need a captain trained for it , so it isn't a captain trainer ,

but it is great fun and as long as it can get close enough to use main guns let alone secondary's it doesn't really mind tier X battles, which is more than can be said for some tier 9 BB's

you will find your self firing loads of HE in the Tirpitz as well, while the Massa only needs it while hunting DD's and well angled BB's even then AP will do 4-5K damage every other salvo at range

the heal beats the torps on the Tirpitz for me any way.

but if you want to train geman BB captains the Tirpitz is a good choice and is quite good ,

I just take the Masachusetts out as I find it more fun, Tirpitz might be more fun when top tier with loads of 6's , but lets face it when is that happening in a tier 8

 

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When the guns on the Tirpitz ( Just like on any german BB ) decides to work the ship is amazing , good speed , great secondaries , great armor, the downside is crap AA and the RNG guns which can either be great or horrible depending on the position of the stars. Overall the Tirpitz is a great ship that has two good builds , full secondary and standard tank build, Massa is kinda meme , you play her just for the secondaries , and thus you must invest your captain into full secondary build which has no other use on any other US ship so its a dud captain for one ship. And if you dont go full secondary on the Massa , why buy it ? get the Alabama and have a much better crewtrainer.

 

Go with the Tirpitz if you play or plan to get the German BB's, the captain will fit on all ships T7+ without retraining, and the ship is a good credit earner that can be played in funny ways, if aggressive is your game the Tirpitz is for you , if tanking damage like a boss is your thing , the Tirpitz is for you.

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Don't you think that Massachusetts need a small buff to his main cannons?? shooting even in close range <10km he is so inaccurate... :(

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On 7/16/2019 at 4:31 PM, Avakol said:

Don't you think that Massachusetts need a small buff to his main cannons?? shooting even in close range <10km he is so inaccurate... :(

Thumbs up for that. I doubt it however...

The only good thing that I've gotten so far from this ship is that when I bough the Georgia recently, I already had a well-developed captain.

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Big Mamie (a.k.a. Massachusetts) is better than Tirpitz anytime!

Big Mamie has better secondaries with higher shell volume and rate of fire!

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On 11/16/2019 at 11:46 AM, Jean_Bart said:

Big Mamie has better secondaries with higher shell volume and rate of fire! 

And less penetration and worse arcs on each of them.

That means besides fire-starting they need IFHE to do direct dmg to lower tier BBs and same- and higher tier cruisers,

forget about penning T8+ BBs anywhere but the superstructure. So over-all the secondaries are about equally useful give or take.

 

On 11/16/2019 at 11:46 AM, Jean_Bart said:

Big Mamie (a.k.a. Massachusetts) is better than Tirpitz anytime! 

Mamie is better at holding a position, Tirpitz is better at making a play/pushing.

Their relative strength depends on the situation they find themselves in.

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10 hours ago, FarQ2 said:

Interesting thread,I do have the Tirpitz, and also looking at the Massachusetts, what about the Alabama or the Kii as alternatives to the Massa?

Imo, Alabama is kind of without role, as in a close-quarters role, the Massachusetts is flat out better. In any other role, NC is better.

 

Kii is ok by itself, having been an Amagi that traded some main weapon performance for torps and AA to be basically versatile but not specialised. She lost the AA and got some buffs for it, but a brawler she still is not.

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