Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
DinkyDi

Overpenetrations

26 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[SOTE]
Beta Tester
45 posts
1,016 battles

Nowadays, looks like most of the hits are overpenetrations. I am not talking about Roma.

Dunk - overpens almost everything
New Mexico - broadside cruisers overpens

Mass - most of the hits overpenetrations

 

Its getting really annoying. Cruisers now sailing full broadside and laughing into my face, while I burn, because instead of citadels, I do overpenetrations for 1.000 dmg - WHICH IS BS.

 

So, is there any reason to shoot APs ? (except some situations against BBs, if you are not bottom tier...). Or am I missing something with all these OPs ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SOTE]
Beta Tester
45 posts
1,016 battles

Like where ? Full salvo into mid ship from 12km too mainstream ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Players
4,631 posts
6,363 battles

Also depends what ship you are shooting, French Cruiser are very trollish on low-midtiers (emile, La gal) you basicly always overpen them.

Other things which can happen:

Aimed too high, or you are simply too close and overpen the citadel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BLITZ]
Modder
4,013 posts
7,380 battles
4 minutes ago, DinkyDi said:

Like where ? Full salvo into mid ship from 12km too mainstream ?

Would you mind to show a typical replay?

 

It is much easier to explain with actual gaming footage from you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,607 posts
5,708 battles
17 minutes ago, DinkyDi said:

Dunk - overpens almost everything

Does so since forever. This ship has always been the T6 equivalent of Roma in terms of gunnery. Or rather, Roma's guns are about the T8 equivalent of Dunkerque guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SOTE]
Beta Tester
45 posts
1,016 battles
Just now, principat121 said:

Would you mind to show a typical replay?

 

It is much easier to explain with actual gaming footage from you.

 

If I get one, I might post it. Or at least screenshot

 

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Also depends what ship you are shooting, French Cruiser are very trollish on low-midtiers (emile, La gal) you basicly always overpen them.

Other things which can happen:

Aimed too high, or you are simply too close and overpen the citadel.

 

Actually it was Le Gal, who got 6 overpens  in last ranked from my Dunk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BLITZ]
Modder
4,013 posts
7,380 battles
2 minutes ago, DinkyDi said:

If I get one, I might post it.

With one of the last patches of WoWs Replays are automatically enabled for all players. You will find a subfolder named "replays" in your WoWs-folder. There you will find at least your last 30 matches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,914 posts
7,006 battles
26 minutes ago, DinkyDi said:

Nowadays

Since you are talking about BBs - you mean always? Nothing new there

 

8 minutes ago, DinkyDi said:

If I get one, I might post it.

Everyone has 30 repays saved by default. Randomly pick one and drop it here.

 

9 minutes ago, DinkyDi said:

Actually it was Le Gal, who got 6 overpens  in last ranked from my Dunk

So you have a thin ship with a sheet of paper for armour vs guns with super-high shell velocity, and you wonder why that's just overpens?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SOTE]
Beta Tester
45 posts
1,016 battles
9 minutes ago, principat121 said:

With one of the last patches of WoWs Replays are automatically enabled for all players. You will find a subfolder named "replays" in your WoWs-folder. There you will find at least your last 30 matches.

Not sure, if you want to watch it (since its probably pain to watch it) but:

15:47 - 5 OPs on Dunk
14:48 - 6 Ops on Graf

20190103_232037_PFSB506-Dunkerque-1940_41_Conquest.wowsreplay

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,681 posts
2,941 battles
1 hour ago, principat121 said:

learn to aim proper

...and sacrifice lots of goats, sheep and chickens to RNGesus.

 

No really he has a point. Most of the time in game I am thinking where to aim my next shot.

Not only WHICH ship to shoot, but also WHERE to shoot it. Say I have AP loaded in my Monarch.

That broadside T8 French CL at 14km might look tempting, but maybe better the superstructure of Yamato at 20km.

Of course if that Frenchy is shooting at our DD, I'll let him have it. But getting some AP (irrepairable) damage on Yamato...

And if the Frenchy gets it, it will be aimed at the waterline - or I'll be getting him when he starts turning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
429 posts
881 battles

as far as im concerned, full broadsides are no longer worth it unless the target is quite wide in its beam. about 10-20 degrees from head-on depending on the width of said ship is better. RN BBs are slightly better vs cruisers due to their shortened fuse times as a result.

 

in short, as close to autobounce territory as you can without it actually bouncing, plus ale keep in mind shell normalisation thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,187 posts
2,396 battles

Recently, in my Leander, I put three full salvoes into a broadside Perth at a range of less than 8 km, aming midships and for the waterline. No citadels.

I didn't notice if there were any overpenetrations, as my eyes were suddenly filled with tears for some reason. And before you say it, yes - I am fully aware that I am the problem here. It seems that after four years of naval gunnery, I still can't aim well enough to score consistent citadels even under optimal conditions. The overpenetrations, I don't mind so much. I simply take them as insult added to injury.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SOTE]
Beta Tester
45 posts
1,016 battles
4 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

Recently, in my Leander, I put three full salvoes into a broadside Perth at a range of less than 8 km, aming midships and for the waterline. No citadels.

I didn't notice if there were any overpenetrations, as my eyes were suddenly filled with tears for some reason. And before you say it, yes - I am fully aware that I am the problem here. It seems that after four years of naval gunnery, I still can't aim well enough to score consistent citadels even under optimal conditions. The overpenetrations, I don't mind so much. I simply take them as insult added to injury.

I am perfectly fine to score penetration hits. But if I see more overpenetrations that penetrations it is frustrating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,187 posts
2,396 battles
1 minute ago, DinkyDi said:

I am perfectly fine to score penetration hits. But if I see more overpenetrations that penetrations it is frustrating.

Yes, I have sometimes wondered about the overpenetration mechanic. And about how the typical conversation on the bridge might go if this would reflect reality.

 

Captain: "Damage report, if you please, Mr Bush."

Second: "Four direct hits to the boiler room, sir."

Captain: "Good heavens! What's our status?"

Second: "Tip top, sir. Not a man lost and no loss to engine power, either. They all went right through."

Captain: "..."

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Players
4,631 posts
6,363 battles
1 minute ago, DinkyDi said:

I am perfectly fine to score penetration hits. But if I see more overpenetrations that penetrations it is frustrating.

 

There are 2 things preventing getting penetrations:

- You need a certain amount of armor to fuse the shell, general rule is caliber/6 (only exception i know seems to be Stalingrad and short-fuse AP from RN ships). So Dunkerque guns have 330mm / 6 = 55mm of armor to fuse. Pretty much no Cruiser has that kinda armor except at the Citadel (this ofc changes when the armor is at an angle). La Gal has something like 16mm everywhere. So if its flat broadside, your shell simply doesnt fuse, or if it does after penetrating multiple layers of armor, then comes this

- Shells detonate only 0,33 seconds (most of them, some have lower values) after they fuse. So if the ship is small enough - or if you are too close, the shell wont detonate in time to give you a penetration.

 

Basicly either the shell doesnt fuse at all, or it detonates too late, both resulting in overpenetrations.

 

14 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

Recently, in my Leander, I put three full salvoes into a broadside Perth at a range of less than 8 km, aming midships and for the waterline. No citadels.

I didn't notice if there were any overpenetrations, as my eyes were suddenly filled with tears for some reason. And before you say it, yes - I am fully aware that I am the problem here. It seems that after four years of naval gunnery, I still can't aim well enough to score consistent citadels even under optimal conditions. The overpenetrations, I don't mind so much. I simply take them as insult added to injury. 

 

RN sAP rarely ever overpenetrates. Can happen on DD superstructure f.e.

Im not sure about Perth armor layout - is it the same as Leander?

You have to hit really close to the water, from the smoke stacks backwards, but not till the rear turret. If you dont hit the citadel right away, pretty much the sAP and or armor can prevent citadel hits. Directly under the smoke stack, Leander citadel deck is 6mm, which you can overmatch, but your shell might detonate too early. After the smoke stacks, the citadel deck is 32mm so it bounces off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
88 posts
14 hours ago, DinkyDi said:

Not sure, if you want to watch it (since its probably pain to watch it) but:

15:47 - 5 OPs on Dunk
14:48 - 6 Ops on Graf

20190103_232037_PFSB506-Dunkerque-1940_41_Conquest.wowsreplay

How do you play these files. I am trying to play my own replay with no luck. The seem rather small file size to be replay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CMP]
Weekend Tester
513 posts
4,035 battles
3 minutes ago, GudmundurG said:

How do you play these files. I am trying to play my own replay with no luck. The seem rather small file size to be replay

Download it to your computer, close Wows, and doubleclick the file.

It will be opened by the wows client (which is why you have to close wows before clicking)

It contains only the ships and player inputs, which is why it is so small.... all the rendering and stuff is done by your own comp when you play the replay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,187 posts
2,396 battles
14 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Im not sure about Perth armor layout - is it the same as Leander?

You have to hit really close to the water, from the smoke stacks backwards, but not till the rear turret. If you dont hit the citadel right away, pretty much the sAP and or armor can prevent citadel hits. Directly under the smoke stack, Leander citadel deck is 6mm, which you can overmatch, but your shell might detonate too early. After the smoke stacks, the citadel deck is 32mm so it bounces off.

To tell you truly, I have never got off to learn all those armour schemes by heart, which is of course another reason why I keep having difficulty in landing reliable citadel hits. I'm simply never going to reach that level of dedication, although I am having a lot of fun in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Players
4,631 posts
6,363 battles
22 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

To tell you truly, I have never got off to learn all those armour schemes by heart, which is of course another reason why I keep having difficulty in landing reliable citadel hits. I'm simply never going to reach that level of dedication, although I am having a lot of fun in the game.

 

Trial and error does work ofc aswell. In general i feel Leander can be quite trollish sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-RM-]
Beta Tester
1,430 posts
5,600 battles
1 hour ago, Procrastes said:

To tell you truly, I have never got off to learn all those armour schemes by heart, which is of course another reason why I keep having difficulty in landing reliable citadel hits. I'm simply never going to reach that level of dedication, although I am having a lot of fun in the game.

To be honest you don't need that much dedication or learning. Beneath the turrets and smoke stacks/chimneys/pipes(?) you will find the citadel location of pretty much every ship in the game. So really all you have to learn is to aim beneath the turrets or smoke stacks and as long as you hit you will often get citadel penetrations.

 

Exceptions are offcourse lightly armored ships that are discussed here. In those cases aiming slightly beneath the waterline means the water will act as "armor" and slow the shells down enough so that they detonate inside the citadel. Failing that aiming at them while they angle will also give your shells enough armor to dig into and you can citadel them through overmatch (this is if you are in a BB, in a cruiser you should have no real issues arming on broadside ships).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,187 posts
2,396 battles
6 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

To be honest you don't need that much dedication or learning. Beneath the turrets and smoke stacks/chimneys/pipes(?) you will find the citadel location of pretty much every ship in the game. So really all you have to learn is to aim beneath the turrets or smoke stacks and as long as you hit you will often get citadel penetrations.

Thanks!

And yes, this is pretty much how I've been doing this so far - glad I got the theory right, at least, even though the skills to implement it are still somewhat in arrears...! :Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[RO-RN]
Players
433 posts
5,911 battles

you know why? because you are playing the most useless class in the game, battleship! why play battleship when you can play henry, zao and hindenburg and burn it down? why play battleship when you are hopeless aganist a destroyer that spots you from the corner of the universe? why play battleship anymore when you are free damage for planes? and i mean the future aircraft carriers!

battleships in general are useless they depend to much on the team and rely heavy on RNG! 

and about those over penetrations try to aim lower and do not hit theyre super structure or zones where they have 30,32 mm of armor unless they are angled and you can overmatch them, then you can score pens on them!

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,187 posts
2,396 battles

All ships, irrespective of class, depend heavily on the rest of the team. It's one of the basic ideas of the game. But it's true that a lone battleship tends to be more vulnerable if it's caught out on its own, or finds itself at the wrong side of the map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SOTE]
Beta Tester
45 posts
1,016 battles
On 1/4/2019 at 1:59 PM, DFens_666 said:

 

There are 2 things preventing getting penetrations:

- You need a certain amount of armor to fuse the shell, general rule is caliber/6 (only exception i know seems to be Stalingrad and short-fuse AP from RN ships). So Dunkerque guns have 330mm / 6 = 55mm of armor to fuse. Pretty much no Cruiser has that kinda armor except at the Citadel (this ofc changes when the armor is at an angle). La Gal has something like 16mm everywhere. So if its flat broadside, your shell simply doesnt fuse, or if it does after penetrating multiple layers of armor, then comes this

- Shells detonate only 0,33 seconds (most of them, some have lower values) after they fuse. So if the ship is small enough - or if you are too close, the shell wont detonate in time to give you a penetration.

 

Basicly either the shell doesnt fuse at all, or it detonates too late, both resulting in overpenetrations.

 

 

RN sAP rarely ever overpenetrates. Can happen on DD superstructure f.e.

Im not sure about Perth armor layout - is it the same as Leander?

You have to hit really close to the water, from the smoke stacks backwards, but not till the rear turret. If you dont hit the citadel right away, pretty much the sAP and or armor can prevent citadel hits. Directly under the smoke stack, Leander citadel deck is 6mm, which you can overmatch, but your shell might detonate too early. After the smoke stacks, the citadel deck is 32mm so it bounces off.

 

Thanks for explanation about the formula caliber/6 - didnt know about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×