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fat_rooster

Stalingrad sucking the fun out of clan wars.

Stalingrad Percieved Effect  

143 members have voted

  1. 1. Does Stalingrad make CB less fun?

    • No, I have one and it is fun to play.
      26
    • No, I'm enjoying this season more and I don't play a Stalingrad.
      45
    • Yes, Even though I play it I am having less fun.
      18
    • Yes, but I'm still enjoying it.
      25
    • Yes, to the point that I'm not playing CB anymore.
      29

168 comments in this topic

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[-BSH-]
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This is sort of an open letter to wargaming, and wondering if anyone else feels the same. I am not enjoying this season of clan wars nearly as much as I have in the past, and I put it entirely down to the Stalingrad. It has started appearing almost every game, and it is just toxic to play against. The vast majority of ships can do sweet [edited]all to it. Moskva this was fine with, as it was not that dangerous back. This POS however cannot be ignored, or even played around. They just dominate the game.

I could rant about the specific things I think are wrong with it, but I keep typing things and then deleting them. The important thing is that I think they make the game less enjoyable, to the point that I am considering giving up on CBs. Our clan doesn't have any and it just feels like a waste of time going into battles without them.

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[NWP]
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Most of the time i like HE spamming them in my Hindi :cap_rambo:

They just sit at islands, and even when they arent detected you can still farm em :cap_haloween:

 

Couldnt answer the poll as its my first season - but i dont have a problem in general with Stalin.

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[TRRC]
[TRRC]
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Another topic about stalin......this getting a bit bored.In my clan only I got stalingrad, and not a big benefit.its big, easy to counter.Me and the boys hapily bring other ships, that can move freely.My experience was when I used stalingrad is either I was focused out by 5 players by fire, or just need to move but hard to re position with it.Easy to counter it, just use your head and the clan mates help you out too.Think a tactic:)

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[OM]
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I dont see a problem there, Stalingrad has so many downsites...holy. it has strong AP, ok. but there are a lot of strong ships with good AP...US CA with better APangles and those insane DPM and shellarcs to stay pretty safe...concealment from mino and worcester (stalingrad cannot even stealtradar like a mino), stalingrad hates fire much more like other cruisers...it is clumsy, u can flank it...no hydro vs torps...henri and Hinden can farm them pretty safe without the risk of being plebbed by it whil angling enough...Stalingrad HEW DPM is garbage... u rlly need teamwork and okish players to counter them, that is true. but there is a reason we mostly see 1, sometimes 2 Stalingrad in higher leagues...

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[ADRIA]
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23 minutes ago, fat_rooster said:

This POS however cannot be ignored, or even played around. They just dominate the game.

It kinda can and it absolutely can be.

 

Also it's the player outskilling you not the ship. Even if that same player would be playing a different ship you'd still get wrecked, because skill difference. If you are equally skilled Stalingrad suddenly isn't nearly as much of a problem as long as you don't misplay, but that same misplaying apart then goes for any ship.

And what about the plebs who got Stalingrad tnx to Christmas? Please, the probably is no ship that's less dangerous out there right now

 

I'm quite happy that there are more BBs properly viable than just the Montana with a slight taste of Republic (hell, Montana seems to be barely played and I myself haven't met a single Rep this whole season), and what's even better is that there are barely any Woosters played. God damn last season towards its end was cancerous with the Wooster spam there.

Just sad that this season we have the worst map rotation of all the seasons. I'd gladly keep overplaying the Mountain Range for yet another time instead of playing the same island-spam map with a different lighting on it over and over again (*khm* Land of Fire, Islands of Aids, Warriors Path, probably some more *khm*)

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[NWP]
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My Henri LOVES having Stalingrad around. All that warm fire damage, bliss. 

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[ASSC]
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That ship is so easy to play around it is not even funny. Especially for people sailing HE monsters. I see no problem with it. If anything I am very happy to see more of them, because Moskva is much harder to dislodge from positions.

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[BGBRD]
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3 hours ago, OttoZander said:

Moskva is much harder to dislodge from positions.

No, its not and you know it.

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[I401]
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3 hours ago, OttoZander said:

That ship is so easy to play around it is not even funny. Especially for people sailing HE monsters. I see no problem with it. If anything I am very happy to see more of them, because Moskva is much harder to dislodge from positions.

Why is a Moskva so much harder to dislodge?

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[COR3]
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13 minutes ago, OTECa1 said:

No, its not and you know it.

Yes it is....

 

12 minutes ago, kfa said:

Why is a Moskva so much harder to dislodge?

Glad you asked. First Moskva has a better Profile and is harder to hit from the ranges you engage to dislodge.

Second her Armor is better in the Situations it usually get placed in. And it gets a hydro. She just don't has the lol pen stalinium ap rounds like Stalin and can't play backup BB like her.

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[ADRIA]
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There should be "indifferent" option in the poll

 

I think it changes the meta, but i don't think it's more or less fun to play with or against it. 

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[TTT]
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The main Problem i have with the Stalin is the fact, that you can create a BB Crossfire without an BB. And it replaces nearly complety the Moskva The AP is the main Problem: Its to stronk™, you must just use google for results of this retarded AP. The fireresistance nerf witch is coming for Alaska and Azuma is maybe also coming for the Stalin. Would be fine.

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Jeah Stalingrad can suck, because that Ap has Angles that are too potent imho. You get full pens even by angling properly.
But. I have to say it can be countered easily. Especially in CWs. Because you sit in voicechat with your Team, and you can focus it.

I bring Henri with me as a Harcounter. IFHE, and you can Kite at 40 Knots 18 KM Away, and deal 5-8 K HE Dmg per volley and set the Stalin on fire.
This ship may excell in random Battles, because coordination is lacking there, but with a well thought out tactic, it's not that big of a deal in CW.

 

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[BGBRD]
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3 minutes ago, HoJSimpson said:

Jeah Stalingrad can suck, because that Ap has Angles that are too potent imho. You get full pens even by angling properly.
But. I have to say it can be countered easily. Especially in CWs. Because you sit in voicechat with your Team, and you can focus it.

I bring Henri with me as a Harcounter. IFHE, and you can Kite at 40 Knots 18 KM Away, and deal 5-8 K HE Dmg per volley and set the Stalin on fire.
This ship may excell in random Battles, because coordination is lacking there, but with a well thought out tactic, it's not that big of a deal in CW.

 

Building an entire set up to counter one ship (the second BB in the clan battles; the raid boss)... sound like a tiny bit broken.

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Why do I have to enjoy the season "more" in your only viable answer? What about enjoying it as usual? 

 

The reality is that you usually meet 1-2 enemy Stalins and it is not a big deal, just mixing things up again. 

 

What you have is an L2P problem, if you can't adapt to a Moskva with better AP angles. 

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Vor 5 Minuten, OTECa1 sagte:

Building an entire set up to counter one ship (the second BB in the clan battles; the raid boss)... sound like a tiny bit broken.

No we dont entirely build around it. But a Henry as a fast ship is helpfull regardless of a Stalingrad beeing in the Opponents Team.
You have a decent firechance, you can Pen German BBs, Stalingrad, Moskva(which every Team in all the Battles i've played had at least one of), and you have very potent AP, which can punish enemies even at Range, and fast due to the reload Booster.

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[GOLD]
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We scrapped the Hindenburg to get in Henri for our set up. Its faster has reload booster for punishing broadsides and to stack up fires on a recently repaired ship. All in all its way better compared to a Hindi. And it counters a Stalingrad quite nicely. So no adjustments need for set ups.

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[OM]
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12 minutes ago, OTECa1 said:

Building an entire set up to counter one ship (the second BB in the clan battles; the raid boss)... sound like a tiny bit broken.

That's called "meta"

And it changes. First competitive game modes were all about smoke and hiding there. So teams brought radar to counter it, developed strategies to bring their radar into position to counter that.

 

There will always be something to "build around" because there will always be a meta. And how to counter it is up to the players. And countering the meta will often end up being the meta, shifting it again to counter the counter of the meta...and so on. All you do is swap hindenburgs with hivs because of recent changes. U take ifhe, that''s the only adjustment u rlly make...otherwise that would be something like rpf on those flanking cruisers. Wow. Sooooo much to build around to specifically counter all ship...switch rpf to ifhe

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[BGBRD]
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@TT_ReWinD I can agree, but the problem with the current "meta" (and maybe the next), is that is build around a non-tech-three ship...  I know that with the current missions and campaings you can acquire the needed resource (or some of it)... If it was a ship from any of the tech-trees I don't think there would have been such an outcry.

 

P.S.

I think will have the same threads about the next "real" ranked season... I think it will be with T9 ships... plebs will be plebs (me included) and they will cry every time, but not entirely unjustified (for once).

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The meta is not build around stalingrad anymore. Ppl learned how to counter it with teamplay, how to adapt. There were a lot of strategies with moskva pushes before. They were somewhat strong if played correctly.

 

Moskva can dish out serious ap salvos aswell and it has better he vs dds. OnlY the hp pool is a meh. It is accurate, got hydro, good armor aswell...Only the ap salves are weaker. So u can change Stalin vs moskva, especially when u wanna be a thread to dds. U can always switch around ships. Moskva is an ok choice. The meta is not all about stalingrad...there are way more things than just stalingrad

U can still smoke worcetera if u want and wanna play with that.

There are a lot of different approaches atm, playing with several gunboat dds to kill the other dd in the cap...that has nothing to do with stalingrad.

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38 minutes ago, TT_ReWinD said:

That's called "meta"

 

That's called BS.   Your Balancegrad is doing 20,000 average damage more then your Henri and kicking the living hell out of your Moskva.  Their is a reason for this and you know why.

 

A OP ship is still a OP ship regardless.  Hiding/masking it as a change of meta is simply concealing the main problem.  It's extremely strong for a cruiser in the first place and a Battlecrusier has no place in Clans where cruisers are in the majorly. 

 

Riddle me this: How many Grads do OM currently use in Clan.  Nuff said.

 

There is a bloody good reason why most teams have swapped this for their Moskva and they are very strong to begin with.  You see 2 at least in Typhoon.

 

Moskva has lower HP, lower fire chance, lower callaber guns, no auto bounce and AP that shatters half the time.  Not to mention a huge difference in reload.  A DD that gets hit by a Grad know it's been hit. Relying on RNG to start a fire is a awful.  Yes it can be done, like any bloody cruiser, but not without concentrated fire from 2+ more ships as it's Battleship tanky.  That is not right for a cruiser.

 

Henri's are still only cruisers with cruiser armour, cruiser guns cruiser  and HP.  They still get annihilated by Des, Hindy, Zao.  Having the worse concealment of any flanking ship does go against it, alot.  The BalancedGrad doesn't have to worry about that as they simply plant and provide fire form across the Map.

 

The Henry is also accessible to most, even on the loan system.  That's "fair".

 

10 hours ago, fat_rooster said:

This is sort of an open letter to wargaming, and wondering if anyone else feels the same. I am not enjoying this season of clan wars nearly as much as I have in the past, and I put it entirely down to the Stalingrad. It has started appearing almost every game, and it is just toxic to play against. The vast majority of ships can do sweet [edited]all to it. Moskva this was fine with, as it was not that dangerous back. This POS however cannot be ignored, or even played around. They just dominate the game.

I could rant about the specific things I think are wrong with it, but I keep typing things and then deleting them. The important thing is that I think they make the game less enjoyable, to the point that I am considering giving up on CBs. Our clan doesn't have any and it just feels like a waste of time going into battles without them.

 

You are not gonna win anything in here mate, really.

 

The only time you see top Clans respond in their droves is when the BalanceGrad is mentioned.  I wonder why.

 

Even our own Clan mates that play them call them OP.  Flamu, IChase, LWM and everyone else says the same and so does the stats.  Only the elites say otherwise.

 

So @fat_rooster, clans like yours and ours know the score but things wont change (Money).

 

You wanna know the sad thing? We currently have one in the team and on Saturday placing one more in the team.  So it's working like WG has intended it too.  But it's wrong in all respects and creates yet another gap between casual clans and elite ones. 

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[BGBRD]
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Yes there are a lot if different approaches atm (that don't include Stalingrad), but how many of them are with high win rate?

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[NWP]
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Every day there are new Stalin complain threads.

 

Is it the Anakin Skywalker of WoWS?

 

Bringing Balanz to the game? :Smile_trollface:

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2 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Every day there are new Stalin complain threads.

 

Is it the Anakin Skywalker of WoWS?

 

Bringing Balanz to the game? :Smile_trollface:

 

18th this week :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Nothing wrong it tho :Smile_facepalm:

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