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Linkaex

Brainstorm session: How to increase the skill level of the playerbase

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Hi there, 

 

Since there have been a lot of threads about bad players and teams. Is there something we can think of and what WG could do to increase the overall skill level of the playerbase?

It took me a quite a while to get a grip of the basics. And frankly if I never registered here on the forum I would probably still be at 40% w/r and not improving. 

I think it could be good for WoWs to guide players better so they don't drop out. Or worse, long time players dropping out because because they get fed up with a part of the player base. 

It also could increase the competitive scene which is good for WoWs overall. Could lead to more competition > streams > more viewers > publicity > new players. But thats is just a wild assumption. 

 

To get this started let me throw some ideas up. And please give your feedback or post your own ideas. But please keep it civil. 

 

- Tutorials, most games have them and seems pretty straight forward but WoWs seems to miss them. 

- Incentives for overall stats (dammage, w/r etc.). Like you are able to compete in some game modes if you hit a certain criteria, you will get a container/signals/flag if you hit [x]. 

- Incentive for watching the "how it works" serie on the YT page of WG.

- Force players to watch or do a tutorial when moving up a tier, introduce them to new game mechanics. For example; how does radar work at entering T7/8. 

@Crysantos and @MrConway do you guys read along or might even want to throw some ideas in here as well? :Smile_honoring:

 

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If people cared to learn they would, as most of us did.

 

Its 2018, you dont need to "look for information", its there at your fingertips, again, people that cares, finds it and learns.

 

What you want is to change the way people behaves, and, good luck with that...

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3 minutes ago, Juanx said:

If people cared to learn they would, as most of us did.

 

Its 2018, you dont need to "look for information", its there at your fingertips, again, people that cares, finds it and learns.

 

What you want is to change the way people behaves, and, good luck with that...

You're right about that. In the age of information ignorance is a choice. 

So maybe it is doomed but could we try? Like anything?!? :cap_haloween:

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11 minutes ago, Linkaex said:

- Tutorials, most games have them and seems pretty straight forward but WoWs seems to miss them. 

- Incentives for overall stats (dammage, w/r etc.). Like you are able to compete in some game modes if you hit a certain criteria, you will get a container/signals/flag if you hit [x]. 

- Incentive for watching the "how it works" serie on the YT page of WG.

- Force players to watch or do a tutorial when moving up a tier, introduce them to new game mechanics. For example; how does radar work at entering T7/8. 

Tutorials are only for bascis. When a new player starts the game, I guess the game explains the basics? Also new players have to level their account, they get everything step by step and a new players start without captains and stuff. So there is learning curve. Beside that new players have to play coop until a certain level.

Tutorials are not really the issue, it's just that some players are worse than others. You can play the game with the best tutorial, I bet there are really bad players as well ;)

 

 

 

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I know of one sure fire way for people to learn and skip the ignorance, but if i mention it here im pretty sure i'll have interpol knocking at my door... or Dasha with KGB:Smile_trollface:

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17 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Tutorials are only for bascis. When a new player starts the game, I guess the game explains the basics? Also new players have to level their account, they get everything step by step and a new players start without captains and stuff. So there is learning curve. Beside that new players have to play coop until a certain level.

Tutorials are not really the issue, it's just that some players are worse than others. You can play the game with the best tutorial, I bet there are really bad players as well ;)

 

 

 

To some extent yeah. I mean It took me roughly 10 co-op games until I figured out I was playing vs bots and not players. And that I could already switch to PVP. And that was just at the lower tier bracket. 

After that many new game mechanics got thrown to me when grinding silver lines, and yes those mechanics slowly increase when you going up in tiers true. 
But if you watch the "How it works" serie by WG things go so more in depth than they look at first glance. 

 

I also rushed the first lines I played just because I wanted a shiny T10 ship and by doing so trying to skip the learning curve the game gives you. I see a lot of players making the same mistakes. 

If there was a guide or something else to slow me down before entering a certain tier, I think it would have helped me. Let's say, play 100 battles to advance to next tier or something. 

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the wish to improve must come from within - so, if someone's stats fall below certain level he/she gets offer that when he gets his stats over some level wg will give some prize (some mid level ship for example).

lets say person has wr 40, after getting it to 43 the prize will be murmansk and new offer to get wr to 47 etc etc

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4 minutes ago, Linkaex said:

To some extent yeah. I mean It took me roughly 10 co-op games until I figured out I was playing vs bots and not players. And that I could already switch to PVP. And that was just at the lower tier bracket. 

After that many new game mechanics got thrown to me when grinding silver lines, and yes those mechanics slowly increase when you going up in tiers true. 
But if you watch the "How it works" serie by WG things go so more in depth than they look at first glance. 

 

I also rushed the first lines I played just because I wanted a shiny T10 ship and by doing so trying to skip the learning curve the game gives you. I see a lot of players making the same mistakes. 

If there was a guide or something to slow me down before entering certain tiers. I think it would have helped me. Let's say play 100 battles to advance to next tier or something. 

Yes, didn't know that my first games as well.

Guess that would be also an issue. For new players a tutorial wouldn't help much, if it is too detailed. After my first 1000 battles I was still learning stuff about this game. Improving the skill of "older" players with tutorials wouldn't do much as well, since there is often a reason, why they're so bad. Those player are not often looking for tutorials and information. That could be casual players, who rarely play a game, or they just don't have the mentality to figure out mechanics and become better.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it, if someone wants help other players, but I guess it won't do much. Otherwise, what thigs game could need is a in-game wiki with all important stats and mechanics

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1 minute ago, hellhound666 said:

the wish to improve must come from within - so, if someone's stats fall below certain level he/she gets offer that when he gets his stats over some level wg will give some prize (some mid level ship for example).

lets say person has wr 40, after getting it to 43 the prize will be murmansk and new offer to get wr to 47 etc etc

Would be actually a nice reward. But otherwise bad players would maybe not enjoy the game that much, if they only play for winrate.

Myself I don't play for a good winrate, I just play this game. But if I play ranked, I want rank 1 for the dubloons, and then I'm annoyed by losing. That's not really enjoyable ;D

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  1. Stop balancing everything for the lowest common denominator
    1. Requiring skill is not a bad thing
    2. Rewarding & promoting teamwork is a good thing
  2. Proper tutorials
    1. 5 base directions - General, DD, Cruiser, BB, CV
    2. Upon introduction completing General tutorial once is mandatory for everyone
      1. The other 4 are clearly pointed towards, but volunteered
    3. Completing a tutorial has a reward. Something like a bit of gold, couple premium days, some credits... something like that
      1. Each tutorial has a separate reward, even if they all are identical
    4. There is some incentive to repeat the tutorial - like reduced (or the same) reward once more for successfully completing it X times (3? 5?)
    5. Even after that tutorials are repeatable as many times as the player wants to do it with no further in-game rewards
    6. Teaching basic but important game mechanics, as well as aiming, firing and dodging. Things like (but not only):
      1. Explaining basic settings (looking at controls tab here) - points like the "Alternative Interface" and "Smoke Timer"
      2. Basic movement - W, S, A&D + Q&E
      3. Very basics of spotting and concealment - reference to video tutorial for a more in-depth look
      4. Minimap, its settings
      5. Shooting a stationary target, broadside, AP, idea for citadels
      6. Shooting a stationary target, bow-on, AP, bounces, introducing HE, mentioning respective video tutorials
      7. Shooting a target moving in a predetermined path, free choice of ammunition
        1. Path includes 2x 180° turns + 2x longer stretches of straight line movement
      8. Launching torpedoes
        1. Moving target, straight line, basics of aiming with the indicator
          1. Mentioning the DWT inability to hit some ships
        2. After completing "Task 1" of this stage player is give access to TRB, forced usage of it unlocks "Task 2"
        3. Moving target, maneuvering (turning) with short intervals, basics of aiming at such a ship, game still tells player where to aim (before the indicator) thus landing torpedoes
      9. Recognizing incoming gun fire, maneuvering to reduce hits.
        1. Preferably AP with incentive to angle
      10. Incoming torpedoes, maneuvering to dodge
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1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Tutorials are only for bascis. When a new player starts the game, I guess the game explains the basics? Also new players have to level their account, they get everything step by step and a new players start without captains and stuff. So there is learning curve. Beside that new players have to play coop until a certain level.

Tutorials are not really the issue, it's just that some players are worse than others. You can play the game with the best tutorial, I bet there are really bad players as well ;)

 

 

 

 

I've seen too many tier 8 players who don't know that there are two ammo types, don't know there are ways to see through smoke, and don't know that damage depends on what part of the ship is hit from what angle.

The in-game tutorial, as far as I remember, only deals with what button to press to move and what button to press to shoot. World of Tanks has a better tutorial, it actually guides your way around an enemy which is impossible to penetrate from the front, explaining visibility mechanics as you go.

 

1 hour ago, Juanx said:

If people cared to learn they would, as most of us did.

 

Its 2018, you dont need to "look for information", its there at your fingertips, again, people that cares, finds it and learns.

 

We are not talking about trying to train professionals. Only about players at least learning the very basics. Not everyone will start searching the forums looking for "how can I play like a pro?", they will mostly be "oooh, shiny, pew-pew-pew"! Having to complete a simple tutorial mission demonstrating that shots deal different damage (and might fail to do damage at all) depending on where they come from, could at least alleviate that problem a little.

Most players are not tired of having teammates with slightly lower skill than themselves. They are tired of players who struggle with the very basic concepts.

 

Also, the in-game hints only mention game mechanics, they don't mention strategy (like how ineffective is for the BB to reverse in the spawn and stay at the far border for the entire match.)

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1 hour ago, Linkaex said:

Since there have been a lot of threads about bad players and teams. Is there something we can think of and what WG could do to increase the overall skill level of the playerbase?

The problem is that the game is based on a fundamental untruth. It's pitched to appeal to fans of real naval history and tech, but this is a game themed around naval combat, not a game of historical naval combat.  Players should be told to abandon everything they know about actual naval battles and concentrate on mastering the arbitrary rules and concepts of the game, but WG won't say that because it will put potential players off, and they need the quantity of players more than they need quality. They can certainly do more to educate the part of the playerbase which wants to know more about the actual game (good examples above) but I don't see that a game whose commercial survival is based on the amount of games played, not the quality of those games, will ever satisfy people who want ultra-high quality matches.

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:
  1. Stop balancing everything for the lowest common denominator
    1. Requiring skill is not a bad thing
    2. Rewarding & promoting teamwork is a good thing
  2. Proper tutorials
    1. 5 base directions - General, DD, Cruiser, BB, CV
    2. Upon introduction completing General tutorial once is mandatory for everyone
      1. The other 4 are clearly pointed towards, but volunteered
    3. Completing a tutorial has a reward. Something like a bit of gold, couple premium days, some credits... something like that
      1. Each tutorial has a separate reward, even if they all are identical
    4. There is some incentive to repeat the tutorial - like reduced (or the same) reward once more for successfully completing it X times (3? 5?)
    5. Even after that tutorials are repeatable as many times as the player wants to do it with no further in-game rewards
    6. Teaching basic but important game mechanics, as well as aiming, firing and dodging. Things like (but not only):
      1. Explaining basic settings (looking at controls tab here) - points like the "Alternative Interface" and "Smoke Timer"
      2. Basic movement - W, S, A&D + Q&E
      3. Very basics of spotting and concealment - reference to video tutorial for a more in-depth look
      4. Minimap, its settings
      5. Shooting a stationary target, broadside, AP, idea for citadels
      6. Shooting a stationary target, bow-on, AP, bounces, introducing HE, mentioning respective video tutorials
      7. Shooting a target moving in a predetermined path, free choice of ammunition
        1. Path includes 2x 180° turns + 2x longer stretches of straight line movement
      8. Launching torpedoes
        1. Moving target, straight line, basics of aiming with the indicator
          1. Mentioning the DWT inability to hit some ships
        2. After completing "Task 1" of this stage player is give access to TRB, forced usage of it unlocks "Task 2"
        3. Moving target, maneuvering (turning) with short intervals, basics of aiming at such a ship, game still tells player where to aim (before the indicator) thus landing torpedoes
      9. Recognizing incoming gun fire, maneuvering to reduce hits.
        1. Preferably AP with incentive to angle
      10. Incoming torpedoes, maneuvering to dodge

Can I just add to that:

 

3. Automated post-battle evaluation feedback (don't they do this in WOT?), e.g. at the most simple level if you made a mistake and suffered for it the game will comment that you were broadside to a BB, or ignored a torpedo warning and continued to sail in a straight line at the same speed, etc, and hints how to improve performance. For example low damage because a) too far away, b) turrets not pointing in direction of target causing low rate of fire.

 

I'm sure obvious issues would be easy to detect and provide for, for every class. I do sometimes worry about the localisation though.

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These threads have only been here now for 3 years?

I missed the first year, because I was the potato myself :) Who cares... it is part of the game. At least I don’t care...

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First and foremost I'd like to have definate stats instead of the raw data.

Now we thing a 45% player is kinda bad. Who knows, he might be 'doing OK'.

He also might be doing bloody awful. But we do not know, as all we have is raw data.

 

And yes this means statistics have to take account for the changes in meta when they add the latest OP (or not...) ship.

 

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I don't think you can realistically do a lot.

Those specific win rates are a bit problematic, someone's always going to be the below average guy. Even in La Liga or Bundesliga some teams lose a lot, and this is not because they are bad players of football. IIRC the median win rate in this game is somewhere like 48-49% (yes, really it's below 50%, the reasons were debated a while ago in another thread). The 45% guy is not the real issue, maybe more the 40% guy (in my experience the people who contribute ~nothing to the matches have about 40% W/R).

Any sort of "skill gates", e.g. to be allowed to play in high tiers, are wholly unrealistic, however good it might sound to the 2% of playerbase sitting on forums like this. The game exists by making lots of people strive towards higher tiers.
 

I think  the only thing you CAN try is add some in-client gameplay guides -- Anything on Youtube or forums like this won't cut it. These in-client guides need to be integrated to the natural progress of the player's account. Something that teaches basics of angling, ammo type selection and such. But it needs to be fun -- if this starts to feel like school or work, then you start to lose some players, and that won't do in a F2P game.

 

But in a Random queue of a F2P game you largely just have to accept that this is where "everyone plays" -- it's not for the competitively minded and dedicated players in any special way.

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Move the economy away from pure damage farming and reward team based actions instead.

That means those that do not play for the team literally become incapable of doing so above a certain tier as they become bankrupt.

 

Not that WG will ever do something like this ofc. It'd bankrupt ~90% of all players.

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as to #1: "Is there something we can think of and what WG could do to increase the overall skill level of the playerbase?"
 
...ohh yes, there is an 100%-sure-result way to do so! The solution is right in front of you (...has always been, maybe it was overlooked, possibly because it is so easy and too simple), even relatively easy to implement by WG and, very importantly, the change (= more a little addition) making it possible for players to faster and more easily obtaining much higher reallife wows-skills and in even very pleasant and highly entertaining ways. My suggestion would even be relatively easy to implement by WG at the same time resulting in huge positive, vibrant results: obviously an easy win-win-solution:
 
implement 1x stats-reset for each individual player; which reset can be used 1x time only:
 
1)
players will get a "real drive" for exploring far more freely (= no more crampy play!) and can play ALL kinds of ships, experiment with all ships classes, exploring it all-----> hugely speeds-up the learning process(!) in even very entertaining ways. Players can & will do so because they know they still have 1x stats-reset. Reset can be used by each individual player at some point in time when he/she opines that he/she accumulated enough reallife wows-skills & experiences to opt for the final stats-phase (= by using their 1x stats-reset).
2)
Would this benefit the battles? oh, yes, for sure, since there would no longer be a need for any player for "crampy/stressy-stats-play": they can play each and every ship enthousiastically (in all kinds of ways, tactically & strategically), get the experience of all ship-classes----> would result in say, randoms-battles, getting even more vibrant (= more risk-takings + more entertaining play + more experimenting, all ships included):cap_rambo:+:cap_rambo:=:cap_like:
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9 hours ago, Linkaex said:

Is there something we can think of and what WG could do to increase the overall skill level of the playerbase

 

That's easy, kill all of the BB players.

 

Not saying that's a good idea, but this is a brainstorming session.

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6 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Move the economy away from pure damage farming and reward team based actions instead.

That means those that do not play for the team literally become incapable of doing so above a certain tier as they become bankrupt.

 

Not that WG will ever do something like this ofc. It'd bankrupt ~90% of all players.

This! Bad players need more feedback about how bad they are. Economics is one side, showing them their bad results is another. Maybe even some skillwalls before you can enter higher tiers.

 

Do you think WG would ever do something like this?

 

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7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Move the economy away from pure damage farming and reward team based actions instead.

That means those that do not play for the team literally become incapable of doing so above a certain tier as they become bankrupt.

 

Not that WG will ever do something like this ofc. It'd bankrupt ~90% of all players.

Well, for those players already struggling there are all those fancy premium paints to purchase, so combined with premium account they can yolo their way through and still make monies:cap_book:

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9 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Not that WG will ever do something like this ofc. It'd bankrupt ~90% of all players.

...so...why mentioning it??...would result in diminishing, stagnating of any further great influx of new players (= bad economics... & besides that, isnt brainstorming the "strive" for improvement, the "strive" for the next higher level to be reached?)...this great game has sooooo much potentials to grow with many tens of thousands enthousiastic new players, logically & easily... so i have to totally disagree, better go for the win-win-solutions (= those guarantee further huge progress, imho):cap_popcorn:

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2 hours ago, Oely001 said:

This! Bad players need more feedback about how bad they are. Economics is one side, showing them their bad results is another.

 

We had a CV in a game not too long ago, who said he did awesome because he had 4 kills :cap_old:

Meanwhile he shot down 4! planes, and never spotted anything with his fighters. Afterwards i came to think, that both CVs had a "truce" and they just kept farming the rest of the team, as the enemy CV didnt shoot down many planes either. But atleast he was spotting for his team.

Still the point being, our CV farmed damage and kills thus thinking he did great. Reality he sucked balls, and i think he got reported 4-6 times of it because many did complain. (3 fighters sitting ontop of each other like 10-15km from the closest enemy :Smile_facepalm:)

 

And you also see those back line (HE) sniping BBs who survive till the end will full HP being on the top half of the XP table. You could argue that the game tells them they did good, while infact they are part why the team lost.

WG doesnt teach them how to play properly, and gives the wrong incentive (damage farming) while at the same time rewarding them with more XP than teamplayers. This is wrong on every level.

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Give half xp for fire damage

give bonus xp for citadel ribbon 

give bonus for defended ribbon

give triple xp for capping/cap assist

give quadruple xp for damage tanking/damage upon spotting

 

Everyone will play the objectives and push.

 

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14 hours ago, Linkaex said:

- I think it could be good for WoWs to guide players better so they don't drop out. Or worse, long time players dropping out because because they get fed up with a part of the player base. 

- It also could increase the competitive scene which is good for WoWs overall. Could lead to more competition > streams > more viewers > publicity > new players. But thats is just a wild assumption. 

- WoWs was never designed with as much foresight as to "what to do with long-time players" besides giving them clan wars and some seasonal stuff. There is no such thing as prestige or leadership or even mentorship in this game, despite the Navy being all about that.

 

- How suitable a game is for the competitive scene, and how much good a competitive scene does for a game besides the publicity, also depends on how the game is structured. This game is too stagnant and basic to be highly competitive, and even with the added publicity and marketing and whatever they can throw at it, in the end it's still a rather basic game. If the players themselves do not find the game interesting, then no matter how much a streamer tells them "this is a great game", they won't have incentive to play it seriously, nor want to learn about it further. 

 

-TL:DR make a better game. Should have done it while you still had the chance, like, 3 years ago.

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