Hindenburg - the buff changed nothing

[Aragathor]

Over a month ago Hindenburg (and Roon) received a buff by having its Heal charges increased by 1.

When the change was announced I posted a 2 month (September-October) stat average of the ship:

Spoiler

	WR	Avg. XP	Avg. Damage	Avg. Kills	Survival Rate	Kill/Death Ratio
Hindenburg	48.02	1516	71228	0.67	39.43	1.11

 

Today I took a look at how the ship performs after the change:

Spoiler

	WR	Avg. XP	Avg. Damage	Avg. Kills	Survival Rate	Kill/Death Ratio
Hindenburg	48.20	1467	69576	0.64	38.38	1.04

 

As we can all see the buff changed nothing and the stats of the ship dropped after the buff, save for a minor jump in WR. And I'm not comparing the ship with others.

The buff failed and I believe Wg will hide behind the lame excuse of needing more data, the fact will remain that Hindenburg has no place in the current meta, having been replaced by Henri IV and Zao.

 

Source: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20181222/eu_2month/average_ship.html

[Bear__Necessities]

But it’s WR has improved....

 

hell, in the last 50 games I’ve managed to drag it from a personal low WR of 44% to just over 50% and increasing it every time. 

[HaachamaShipping]

25 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

The buff failed and I believe Wg will hide behind the lame excuse of needing more data, the fact will remain that Hindenburg has no place in the current meta, having been replaced by Henri IV and Zao.

Honestly, maybe the buff wasn't there to give Hindenburg a place. Maybe it was actually there so people spec out of SI, wonder what to do with 3 points, then go Vigilance, thus finally allowing Franz von Jutland to have a place.

[Prospect_b]

3 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Honestly, maybe the buff wasn't there to give Hindenburg a place. Maybe it was actually there so people spec out of SI, wonder what to do with 3 points, then go Vigilance, thus finally allowing Franz von Jutland to have a place.

The moment there are free respecs I'll probably try that out.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Saiyko said:

The moment there are free respecs I'll probably try that out.

I don't, because I can't be bothered to make sacrifices on my Graf Spee captain just so my Hindenburg gets better. But I'd think that it's no worse than DE, if you just want to spot ALL the torps.

[Hesp]

Hindenburg did not need any buff. Hindenburg is a German cruiser that the great German community uses as its first cruise experience, hence its statistics.

 

Look for example the statistics on the Russian server.

[Prospect_b]

9 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I don't, because I can't be bothered to make sacrifices on my Graf Spee captain just so my Hindenburg gets better. But I'd think that it's no worse than DE, if you just want to spot ALL the torps.

I rebought nurnberg just to give von Jutland a place somewhere ;)

 

(and I don't play graf Bleh)

[Prospect_b]

10 minutes ago, Hesp said:

Hindenburg did not need any buff. Hindenburg is a German cruiser that the great German community uses as its first cruise experience, hence its statistics.

Well, Hinden didn't need a nerf a few months before that, right before buffing Zao and Moskva, either.

 

[Hesp]

2 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Well, Hinden didn't need a nerf a few months before that, right before buffing Zao and Moskva, either.

 

 

I agree

[Aragathor]

13 minutes ago, Hesp said:

 

Look for example the statistics on the Russian server.

Here are the 2 months statistics for the RU server, italics show where they are worse than EU:

 

Spoiler

	WR	Avg. XP	Avg. Damage	Avg. Kills	Survival Rate	Kill/Death Ratio
Hindenburg	48.67	1417	69483	0.68	37.88	1.09

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20181222/ru_2month/average_ship.html

 

So on the RU server the Hindenburg does less damage, earns less XP, and gets killed more often. Otherwise the stats are similar.

 

The reload nerf hit the Hindenburg and the Roon hard, while the extra heal has not changed anything. And that on all servers it seems.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

I rebought nurnberg just to give von Jutland a place somewhere ;)

 

(and I don't play graf Bleh)

I just kept him in reserve, as I have enough Hippers, Theas and regular high level captains to go around.

 

Also, I find more joy derping around in Graf Spee in T6 than with Hindenburg in T10. It's basically the original large cruiser with straight up 1/3 more hp than most other T6 cruisers and guns that people underestimate till they lose 8k to a citadel. With stuff like Ranked Sprint, one can play this gem even competitively.

[Hesp]

14 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Here are the 2 months statistics for the RU server, italics show where they are worse than EU:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

	WR	Avg. XP	Avg. Damage	Avg. Kills	Survival Rate	Kill/Death Ratio
Hindenburg	48.67	1417	69483	0.68	37.88	1.09

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20181222/ru_2month/average_ship.html

 

So on the RU server the Hindenburg does less damage, earns less XP, and gets killed more often. Otherwise the stats are similar.

 

The reload nerf hit the Hindenburg and the Roon hard, while the extra heal has not changed anything. And that on all servers it seems.

 

Well that is quite enlightening. Maybe it's not good at destroying DDs due to its concealment and lack of radar. Its average damage is of the highest but it seems that it is not quality damage.

Actually the fifth heal does not help the average player, to use the fifth heal you need to make a long game.

[Aragathor]

11 minutes ago, Hesp said:

Its average damage is of the highest but it seems that it is not quality damage.

Cruiser damage is not equal. Hindenburg shares the same "niche" as Zao and Henri IV, it should be therefore compared with them and not DD hunters like Des Moines or Minotaur.

The average damage on RU for Zao is 74712 and for Henri IV 81735, in both cases the damage is higher than that done by the Hindenburg

 

11 minutes ago, Hesp said:

Actually the fifth heal does not help the average player

The 5th heal doesn't even help experienced players as most of the damage taken can't be healed by the ship. I often struggle to use the 4th one effectively.

[mariouus]

15 minutes ago, Hesp said:

Actually the fifth heal does not help the average player, to use the fifth heal you need to make a long game.

Bigger problem is, that fifth heal has nothing left do heal.

 

1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

As we can all see the buff changed nothing and the stats of the ship dropped after the buff, save for a minor jump in WR. And I'm not comparing the ship with others.

The buff failed and I believe Wg will hide behind the lame excuse of needing more data, the fact will remain that Hindenburg has no place in the current meta, having been replaced by Henri IV and Zao.

It is no real surprise, that it did not change anything. Just like we told that nerf is not needed, we also told that this sorry excuse for a "buff" will not improve anything. But like @MrConway sayed, they can always change it again, I sense sixth heal coming, not that you can ever use it (not like you can really use fifth either) .

[DFens_666]

Well, that was quite obvious wasnt it?

As average players simply cant survive long enough to make use of the heals - and fire is never the greatest threat for a Cruiser anyway (well some exceptions ofc).

I do see an advantage in CBs tho, as there you receive firedamage most of the time, so i can get a little bit of extra HP out of it.

But for randoms, this "buff" was a joke.

[mariouus]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

As average players simply cant survive long enough to make use of the heals - and fire is never the greatest threat for a Cruiser anyway (well some exceptions ofc).

It has little to do with average players. Hindenburg used purposfully can not use it, not because it dies too early, but because damage it takes.

 

Last time I played Hindenburg, did very well, but at the end had 2500.hp, 2X Heal ready to go, but no HP do recover. (this was after the buff). It was actually very common before do have no actual use for fourth heal, thats why I pointed out that fifth would be useless.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I do see an advantage in CBs tho, as there you receive firedamage most of the time, so i can get a little bit of extra HP out of it.

 

My expirience in CBs with Hindenburg and its legendary modul is that fire is even a lower problem than my cat jumping on my keybord.

With this modul and fully specced for anti fire, I never used repair when fired up.

[DFens_666]

14 minutes ago, Alipheese_XV said:

 

My expirience in CBs with Hindenburg and its legendary modul is that fire is even a lower problem than my cat jumping on my keybord.

With this modul and fully specced for anti fire, I never used repair when fired up.

 

Wouldnt that be an arguement for an extra heal, as you dont use DCP?

[Flavio1997]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Wouldnt that be an arguement for an extra heal, as you dont use DCP?

Not when your fire last 7 secs and deals 2.5% of you hp worth of damage ( and a heal heals up for 18%

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

Not when your fire last 7 secs and deals 2.5% of you hp worth of damage ( and a heal heals up for 18%

 

Well, that makes sense yes, but its also the reason why i personaly wont use the legendary module.

Fires shouldnt be an issue most of the time. Either you die to HE alpha or AP... At the same time, have to get a shitty concealment ontop, which isnt necessary crucial, but can be at times.

[Flavio1997]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, that makes sense yes, but its also the reason why i personaly wont use the legendary module.

Fires shouldnt be an issue most of the time. Either you die to HE alpha or AP... At the same time, have to get a shitty concealment ontop, which isnt necessary crucial, but can be at times.

Especially because you surpass the 13.5 kms concealment of all the others t10 bbs

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, that makes sense yes, but its also the reason why i personaly wont use the legendary module.

Fires shouldnt be an issue most of the time. Either you die to HE alpha or AP... At the same time, have to get a shitty concealment ontop, which isnt necessary crucial, but can be at times.

 

Yes, a concealment somewhere between a moskwa and a OPgrad is hard to handle.

On the other hand, you have your Repair ready for your guns or other things, when they are really necessarie.

[Aragathor]

Speaking of concealment, she will soon get a concealment nerf together with all other ships that are not DDs. This will push her to 12.6km with both skill and upgrade.

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Wouldnt that be an arguement for an extra heal, as you dont use DCP?

When the only source of damage that 5 repair parties reasonably adress is negligible, then you could have 3 of them and still be fine. Hindenburg with LU is like the ship that really needs repair parties the least.

9 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Speaking of concealment, she will soon get a concealment nerf together with all other ships that are not DDs. This will push her to 12.6km with both skill and upgrade.

As it's a global nerf, this hurts her less than competition, imo. Hindenburg thankfully is one of the less stealth dependant cruisers at T10, while having still workable values. BBs will get hit harder and that helps Hindenburg a bit. It's more problematic for any cruiser that could actually use the stealth, so T8 ships like Mogami getting less window for torp attacks (but still enough) and Edinburgh or Cleveland losing out on counter-radar potential.

[Miscommunication_dept]

It’s too many heals for a cruiser.

You are not a target of HE spam  and have 30 fires. 

Its a buff that is not a buff