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Praevasc

Brainstorming about the hordes of new 35% winrate high tier players

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With the great discounts in this Christmas season, there seems to be a high number of new players entering random battles with high tier ships.

Just like that infamous Eternal September, they are here, and it's no use to whine about them. As long as it generates income to let them bribe their way to high tiers, such players will always exist.

 

The question is how to mitigate this problem.

 

I'm no elitist who says that no one below 50% winrate should be allowed to play high tiers. In my opinion everyone has the right to play.

 

However, I've seen plenty of times, that a high tier player

- doesn't know that there are two ammo types, AP and HE, and one can switch between them.

- doesn't know that destroyers can lay smoke.

- doesn't know that their cruisers have hydro and it can see through smoke

- doesn't know that shells cause different amount of damage depending on the ship part they hit and the angle they hit at.

- doesn't know that firing the main guns makes the ship more visible

- doesn't know that random battles are not pleasure cruises to sail far away from everyone else while admiring the ship and the scenery (and they could use the training room for that)

 

Such players indeed ruin the fun for 23 other players.

 

I'm not talking about elevating 45% winrate players into unicum. I'm not even appalled from seeing 45% players on my team from time to time, if they at contribute at least a little to the battle.

But I'm losing my patience when I see 30% players sailing high tier, who not only don't know the basic differences between ship classes, but they even struggle with the controls.

 

What can we do? Obviously, the hints at the loading screen are not enough. Trying to instruct them in chat is not enough, they probably don't even look at it. And if they do, they will mostly see only swearing.

 

 

One proposal:

If you unlock any ship of tier 5 or higher, you have to complete a tutorial mission with that specific ship, before you are allowed to take her to random or ranked battles. (having a certain amount of battles at that tier or at one tier lower, with a winrate above a certain threshold would allow you to skip that tutorial)

 

This tutorial would be almost like an interactive movie, showcasing typical cases which highlight the advantages/disadvantages of this specific ship, while guiding the player how that ship is to be played.

For example, an angled target ship with great armor comes up, they player starts with AP loaded. The instructor tells you to fire. After enough shells hit (and are bounced/shattered), the instructor says that you should note that you did no damage, instructs you to position yourself so that you can fire at a better angle, and see how much more damage you do. If you are in a cruiser with good HE, they tell you to switch to HE and aim at the superstructure.

Or they give you a path to follow in a mock battle.

Other things to showcase could be how much more or how much less damage you yourself receive depending on your angle, to not instantly extinguish the very first fire when driving a full HP battleship because you will have soon 3 fires and a flooding while your DC is on cooldown, to not halt when torpedo bombers are approaching, etc. etc. Not just tell it on a loading screen, but showcase it in an interactive tutorial.

 

I remember there is a tutorial after installing the game on a new account, but that's for learning which button to press to move forward.

That's obviously not enough.

 

Getting into a high tier ship, and having to complete a tutorial mission (if your total winrate is poor enough), where that tutorial is specifically tailored to that ship (highlighting strengths and weaknesses, guiding through how such a ship has to be played) could help a lot in making battles more enjoyable, both for the new player, and for the others as well.

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11 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

30 to 35% players are rare to the extreme.

No hordes found.

You were lucky then. I've seen plenty in this last vacation period.

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WoWs numbers lists over 150k players for EU (yes, that are not all). 8 fit your criteria, none worse than 33%.

Are you sure you are not looking at ship winrating?

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13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

WoWs numbers lists over 150k players for EU (yes, that are not all). 8 fit your criteria, none worse than 33%.

Are you sure you are not looking at ship winrating?

Either that or it's a made up number as per usual whine topics. 

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5 minutes ago, bushwacker001 said:

Either that or it's a made up number as per usual whine topics. 

Hm, does what I wrote really look like a typical whining post? In that case I must apologize and try to improve my writing skills.

But if you think it's OK to see people with tier 8 battleships who don't know AP exists, that the circles mean a zone to be captured, or that torpedoes travel in a straight line, then feel free to disagree with me.

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4 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

Hm, does what I wrote really look like a typical whining post? In that case I must apologize and try to improve my writing skills.

But if you think it's OK to see people with tier 8 battleships who don't know AP exists, that the circles mean a zone to be captured, or that torpedoes travel in a straight line, then feel free to disagree with me.

I doubt your assumptions about most of your points....Choosing to fire HE doesn't mean they don't know about AP for instance. 

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Just now, bushwacker001 said:

I doubt your assumptions about most of your points....Choosing to fire HE doesn't mean they don't know about AP for instance. 

Believe me, I've seen them. You can usually tell from a behavior of a player. Choosing to fire HE requires at least some minor thinking.

Did you ever see battleships (besides the King George V) who start the game by turning 90° on the starting position, never moving (or moving slowly in a straight line never turning), shooting HE the whole match, even at a cruiser who comes close and showing broadside, again and again and again? And do you think they chose to fire HE because the tactical situation required it?

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Just now, bushwacker001 said:

I doubt your assumptions about most of your points

 

Should I start telling you about all the Worcesters and Grozovois who never even activate DFAA when I attack them in a CV? Or that GK who told me to l2p because "ONLY CRUISERS HAVE HYDRO"?

The average standard of play is abysmal. I don't think anyone can deny that.

 

Regardless though, WG has already stated a few months ago that they're not interested in making any ingame tutorials.

The funny thing about that is previously they stated in-depth tutorials are in the making with the first about to launch. That was sometime in 2017 I believe.

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13 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

Hm, does what I wrote really look like a typical whining post? In that case I must apologize and try to improve my writing skills.

But if you think it's OK to see people with tier 8 battleships who don't know AP exists, that the circles mean a zone to be captured, or that torpedoes travel in a straight line, then feel free to disagree with me.

There is a difference between playing badly and 35% bad.

I have see players who play against their team on purpose most of the time with higher winrating.

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5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Should I start telling you about all the Worcesters and Grozovois who never even activate DFAA when I attack them in a CV? Or that GK who told me to l2p because "ONLY CRUISERS HAVE HYDRO"?

The average standard of play is abysmal. I don't think anyone can deny that.

 

Regardless though, WG has already stated a few months ago that they're not interested in making any ingame tutorials.

The funny thing about that is previously they stated in-depth tutorials are in the making with the first about to launch. That was sometime in 2017 I believe.

I would believe you El2aZeR as, unlike the OP, you have played  over T7 :Smile_smile:

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Should I start telling you about all the Worcesters and Grozovois who never even activate DFAA when I attack them in a CV? Or that GK who told me to l2p because "ONLY CRUISERS HAVE HYDRO"?

 

... DDs saying Hindenburg has radar, so they cant cap

CVs thinking they did awesome because they have equal amount of kills and planekills (4!!) - on T10 that is (both CVs did play ofc)

Hightier US CAs who dont know what Radar is

Chapa using Radar 1 min into the game to "check for DDs" ??

BB asking any non-smoke Cruiser for smoke - if you tell them you dont have smoke, they start to insult you

 

I believe we had the same GK :Smile_teethhappy:

 

8 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

Did you ever see battleships (besides the King George V) who start the game by turning 90° on the starting position, never moving (or moving slowly in a straight line never turning), shooting HE the whole match, even at a cruiser who comes close and showing broadside, again and again and again? And do you think they chose to fire HE because the tactical situation required it?

 

Ive seen an Iowa turn in spawn, then reverse towards a cap. Sometime into the game (after it was clear there is nothing coming to C) he decided to accelerate back into the spawn :cap_old:

Also seen BBs shoot nothing but HE (my favorite is Musashi/Yamato) and Cruisers shoot nothing but AP at angled *insert any ship here* IN THE SAME MATCH as previously mentioned BBs :cap_fainting: Thats when you know you are f***ed

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2 minutes ago, bushwacker001 said:

I would believe you El2aZeR as, unlike the OP, you have played  over T7 :Smile_smile:

I've seen plenty of tier 8 ships in my tier 6 and 7 battles.

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3 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

I've seen plenty of tier 8 ships in my tier 6 and 7 battles.

 

Your 1k games sample is rather small, but what do we know...

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49 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Are you sure you are not looking at ship winrating?

 

Probably that, especially if he is running MM monitor (from what i know, i dont use it)

as it displays ship WR. Even good players can be unlucky in the first dozen games or so - i got 36% in my GK, so if he spots me in it, id be in that list aswell :Smile_trollface:

I even think he is correct if he sees lots of low WR guys in hightiers. They might have 40-45% on account, but can be <35% on T10.

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7 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

Your 1k games sample is rather small, but what do we know...

And this proves what point? That players with <100 battles playing tier 8-9 ships in random, without knowing even the basics of controls is a good thing, there is nothing to be improved in that regard, and that as I have only 1k random battles instead of 3k I'm incapable of identifying such phenomena as a problem?

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9 minutes ago, Juanx said:

Your 1k games sample is rather small, but what do we know...

 

3 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

And this proves what point? That players with <100 battles playing tier 8-9 ships in random, without knowing even the basics of controls is a good thing, there is nothing to be improved in that regard, and that as I have only 1k random battles instead of 3k I'm incapable of identifying such phenomena as a problem?

 

Read below, since you seem to have missed that one.

 

57 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

WoWs numbers lists over 150k players for EU (yes, that are not all). 8 fit your criteria, none worse than 33%.

Are you sure you are not looking at ship winrating?

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13 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

BB asking any non-smoke Cruiser for smoke - if you tell them you dont have smoke, they start to insult you

My "favorite": tier 9 BB+DD division, the rest of the battle mostly tier 7. BB stays in the spawn, spamming HE (It was an Iowa if I remember well), DD deploying smoke around the BB in the first minute of the game, then staying around and re-deploying smoke periodically.

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3 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

My "favorite": tier 9 BB+DD division, the rest of the battle mostly tier 7. BB stays in the spawn, spamming HE (It was an Iowa if I remember well), DD deploying smoke around the BB in the first minute of the game, then staying around and re-deploying smoke periodically.

 

I think @ForlornSailor had the same stuff :cap_wander:But it was Asashio + Tirpitz div if i recall correctly.

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7 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

My "favorite": tier 9 BB+DD division, the rest of the battle mostly tier 7. BB stays in the spawn, spamming HE (It was an Iowa if I remember well), DD deploying smoke around the BB in the first minute of the game, then staying around and re-deploying smoke periodically.

 

Pff, that's nothing.

Ever seen a triple Khaba div all trying to play like a torp boat? Then :etc_swear:talking you when you tell them she's a gunboat because "LOL DDS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE GUNS"?

Because I have.

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39 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

GK who told me to l2p because "ONLY CRUISERS HAVE HYDRO"

Now I understand that GK that went right after a DD that disappeared in a corner and got faceful of torps for its trouble. No, he never used hydro.

 

If people would put the same amount of effort in winning they do in losing this game would be much more enjoyable.

 

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In all seriousness, i haven't seen this much weird, illogical and flat out silly gameplay in the tier X matches. I feel like I'm tripping.

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Not a whining post at all, World of Tanks has step by step tutorials to get through, and I am not saying those are perfect, but they do help get a feeling and avoid the initial pitfalls. Adding this in ships is a nice bonus!

 

Praevasc has a good point, and eliterian remarks have no place here. This is not work. It's a game we can only improve.

 

Best wishes all :)

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15 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Pff, that's nothing.

Ever seen a triple Khaba div all trying to play like a torp boat? Then :etc_swear:talking you when you tell them she's a gunboat because "LOL DDS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE GUNS"?

Because I have.

 

olennahnytkaiken.png.9ed4b358e5be117b1b8e40a1f84e5735.png

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8 minutes ago, Alina_Puscau said:

Not a whining post at all, World of Tanks has step by step tutorials to get through, and I am not saying those are perfect, but they do help get a feeling and avoid the initial pitfalls. Adding this in ships is a nice bonus!

 

Praevasc has a good point, and eliterian remarks have no place here. This is not work. It's a game we can only improve.

 

Best wishes all :)

True, I played very little WoT, but I remember that there were several missions introducing game mechanics one by one. For example, guiding you on a route behind bushes, and telling you that the enemy can't see you there, presenting an enemy you can't hurt from the front and guiding you to get behind him to shoot at the weaker rear armor, and so on.

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