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GulvkluderGuld

Upcoming AA rework (= removal)

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Looking at what WG has in store for us, how many of you will be taking a break from ships next patch?

Personally I look to take an extended break from WoWs for the next 1-2 months, apart from maybe some Ranked (arms race looks possibly fun, and there will be no CVs).

 

So for anyone who didnt watch Flamu and Notsers videos on the upcoming AA rework (accompanying the CV rework), here's the links.

 

 

So, where is the fun in that for the 90% who don't play CVs?

Ranked (arms race) will be playable, but will random battles? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Looking at what WG has in store for us, how many of you will be taking a break from ships next patch?

Personally I look to take an extended break from WoWs for the next 1-2 months, apart from maybe some Ranked (arms race looks possibly fun, and there will be no CVs).

 

So for anyone who didnt watch Flamu and Notsers videos on the upcoming AA rework (accompanying the CV rework), here's the links.

 

 

So, where is the fun in that for the 90% who don't play CVs?

Ranked (arms race) will be playable, but will random battles? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That Notser video is pain to watch. He start to switch the AA sector, when the planes approach and not before they approach. The carrier was in the north, so why having the south sector enforced? That is bad played. The AA sectors affect only long and mid range aa, and with his managing he doesn't do much.

The AA is not only swapping the sectors, it needs some preparation and maneuvering. Not like Notser played that.

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I'm going to switch to ranked and coop. I might put some effort into ranked for once.

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1 hour ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

ow many of you will be taking a break from ships next patch?

I'm honestly considering that.

 

Then again, hoping that this will be just the next patch... beyond optimistic. Wasn't it even said that WG plans to keep testing & changing stuff till like 0.8.4 which would be May?

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Notser, the guy claiming IFHE DM plays better than DM without it? Nuff said...

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1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That Notser video is pain to watch. He start to switch the AA sector, when the planes approach and not before they approach. The carrier was in the north, so why having the south sector enforced? That is bad played. The AA sectors affect only long and mid range aa, and with his managing he doesn't do much.

The AA is not only swapping the sectors, it needs some preparation and maneuvering. Not like Notser played that.

Sure, and after that it will be more effective ? Can you show us a vid how that should work ? thanks ...

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10 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Sure, and after that it will be more effective ? Can you show us a vid how that should work ? thanks ...

You could answer the question yourseld: What is stronger an AA denstity of 50% or of 150%? Density seems to be "shots", so 150% means 50% more shots than normal.

 

Here a video. Also take a look at this torpedo bombers, he started two squads at th beginnig, than he don't get a full squad the whole game

 

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17 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You could answer the question yourseld: What is stronger an AA denstity of 50% or of 150%? Density seems to be "shots", so 150% means 50% more shots than normal.

 

Here a video. Also take a look at this torpedo bombers, he started two squads at th beginnig, than he don't get a full squad the whole game

 

What I see:

 

Basically he flies around inside Worchester AA + Mogami AA for 1 minute and his planes doesn't give a crap about it.

 

Starts with squad of 9 planes, first drop of 3 without losing even one, finally two excorting TBs go down at the end of 2nd drop which is still two full drops and 1 surviving TB after doing 2 drops.

 

Sure why should planes care about the best AA cruiser in the game (provided Worchester knows where to find his DFAA button).

 

I realize WG has to work out CV UI and gameplay before they can start balancing AA against that, but this level is just toxic. Infinite planes is more than enough for that purpose.

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That Notser video is pain to watch. He start to switch the AA sector, when the planes approach and not before they approach. The carrier was in the north, so why having the south sector enforced? That is bad played. The AA sectors affect only long and mid range aa, and with his managing he doesn't do much.

The AA is not only swapping the sectors, it needs some preparation and maneuvering. Not like Notser played that.

Lots of room for improvement, but this is still Minotaur AA and he doesnt even shoot one plane down at the start.

 

Also take a look at his BB video and you will see Montana AA in the reinforced side doing exactly squat to attack squadrons.

 

Finally, notice the bugs? Torpedoes in the water merrily hitting ships despite having not red triangles on them (twice) as if they still unarmed.

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3 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

What I see:

 

Basically he flies around inside Worchester AA + Mogami AA for 1 minute and his planes doesn't give a crap about it.

 

Starts with squad of 9 planes, first drop of 3 without losing even one, finally two excorting TBs go down at the end of 2nd drop which is still two full drops.

 

Sure why should planes care about the best AA cruiser in the game (provided Worchester knows where to find his DFAA button)

Look at how fast the HP pool of the planes is depleting before he drops. 

EDIT: Fara also has a better view on CVs than Flamu or Notser imo. Flamu is just playing his new toy on a stream...

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Just now, GulvkluderGuld said:

What I see:

 

Basically he flies around inside Worchester AA + Mogami AA for 1 minute and his planes doesn't give a crap about it.

 

Starts with squad of 9 planes, first drop of 3 without losing even one, finally two excorting TBs go down at the end of 2nd drop which is still two full drops.

 

Sure why should planes care about the best AA cruiser in the game (provided Worchester knows where to find his DFAA button)

So one aa cruiser should shoot down every plane before one drop? That's what we have live, but that is not the gameplay style now. It changes.

The AA needs to hit multiple times to destroy a plane, because aa does certain damage, and planes have HP. That takes time, until a plane goes down.

But the CV needs also time to drop all his load. That is the new concept.

The "skill" is now: A good CV will know how to dodge a lot of AA fire and pick good targets with the right plane type. A good cruiser will know how to maneuver with the enforced sector and dodge the enemy CV.

 

 

 

 

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Hm, with AA practically reduced to self-defense instead of area denial, and with the removal of fighter squads, won't most carrier games start with a direct torpedo bomber strike against the enemy carrier? Who can stop that?

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4 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Look at how fast the HP pool of the planes is depleting before he drops. 

EDIT: Fara also has a better view on CVs than Flamu or Notser imo. Flamu is just playing his new toy on a stream...

You cannot invalidate Flamus performance just because he was "only playing with a new toy". He is still better than 95% of the bobs out there that you and I will have to contend with after next patch.

 

True Fara has more depth in his video, but even he says new CVs are very strong. 

5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So one aa cruiser should shoot down every plane before one drop? That's what we have live, but that is not the gameplay style now. It changes.

The AA needs to hit multiple times to destroy a plane, because aa does certain damage, and planes have HP. That takes time, until a plane goes down.

But the CV needs also time to drop all his load. That is the new concept.

The "skill" is now: A good CV will know how to dodge a lot of AA fire and pick good targets with the right plane type. A good cruiser will know how to maneuver with the enforced sector and dodge the enemy CV.

One DD sailing out in front of a Worchester shouldnt be in huge trouble?

One cruiser saling broadside on the a BB shouldnt get punished?

 

The idea of the rework and chip damage isn't what I'm attacking. Its the current implementation where aa is so weak is might aswell not be there.

Fighterplanes are the only threat to CV planes at this stage. 

 

Also there as long as the speedboost consumable flamu used to strike a CV can be used during attack runs, the whole idea about "needing time" rings rather empty.

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2 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

Hm, with AA practically reduced to self-defense instead of area denial, and with the removal of fighter squads, won't most carrier games start with a direct torpedo bomber strike against the enemy carrier? Who can stop that?

That's not correct.

The CV has fighters, which delete one squad almost instantly. Same kind of fighter get every ship with catapult fighters. They start now 4-6 catapult fighters, which deletes a squads pretty hard.

If you looked at the Fara video, he started with torpedos, lost the squad, then he started a second torpedo squad, lost it too, after that he couldn't start a full torpedo squad for the rest of the game, also he has the module for a higher flight capacity, otherwise he would be depeleted on torpedo planes even faster.

I don't see, why AA should be only self defence. An AA-cruiser can give other ships cover

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6 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

Hm, with AA practically reduced to self-defense instead of area denial, and with the removal of fighter squads, won't most carrier games start with a direct torpedo bomber strike against the enemy carrier? Who can stop that?

CVs get self-defence fighter squads that are higly effective.

Also flood time = 30s and burn time = 5s

 

CVs are hard to kill for other CVs so they wipe out all the other ships, then its CV king-of-the-hill at the end (if there are many CVs in the battle)

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Just now, GulvkluderGuld said:

One DD sailing out in front of a Worchester shouldnt be in huge trouble?

One cruiser saling broadside on the a BB shouldnt get punished?

 

The idea of the rework and chip damage isn't what I'm attacking. Its the current implementation where aa is so weak is might aswell not be there.

Fighterplanes are the only threat to CV planes at this stage. 

 

Also there as long as the speedboost consumable flamu used to strike a CV can be used during attack runs, the whole idea about "needing time" rings rather empty.

Guess you don't see the depth of it.

The gameplay has changed.

 

Just an example.

-An AA-minotaur on live just needs a few seconds to delete a squad. A CV just needs a few seconds to drop the load off.

--> AA works fast, drop of the load of the planes works fast.

 

-On the rework the AA has to damage and destroy the planes over time, that takes more than a few seconds. The CV can only drop in small groups over time.

--> AA needs time to destroy, CV needs time to drop the load.

 

The AA is adapted to the playstyle of the CV. You can't keep the instant kill AA with the reworked CV, neither you could take the new AA with the old RTS gameplay. That just doesn't work

 

No idea what you mean with need time, but they nerved the speed in this test round. Also wasting planes leads, that you can't start full squads of the same type. You can see that in the video.

A midway needs over 13,5 minutes to reload a full squad of 9 torpedo bombers.

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Can't say I like the manual AA system. Why is it so big on-screen? Why do I have to click an extra button?

 

Something like the shield management system in Star Trek Online would be better. That just gives you four areas around the model of the ship in the UI which displays damage, HP, etc - if you want to improve your shields, you just click on the area you want to enhance. Two clicks, done. 

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22 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

A CV just needs a few seconds to drop the load off.

 

Ah, yes, I must've forgotten that aircraft can just teleport to the drop zone.

Reworked CVs drop their ordinance much faster than current CVs ever will. Multiple attacks take far less time to pull off than one full strike in a current CV.

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Ah, yes, I must've forgotten that aircraft can just teleport to the drop zone.

Reworked CVs drop their ordinance much faster than current CVs ever will. Multiple attacks take far less time to pull off than one full strike in a current CV.

The RTS carrier doesn't have to fly to the target, than fly away, turn, attack again, fly away, turn, attack, fly away, turn attack. (damage over time)

RTS just need to approach one time in a few seconds to drop everything off.

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30 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Guess you don't see the depth of it.

The gameplay has changed.

 

Just an example.

-An AA-minotaur on live just needs a few seconds to delete a squad. A CV just needs a few seconds to drop the load off.

--> AA works fast, drop of the load of the planes works fast.

 

-On the rework the AA has to damage and destroy the planes over time, that takes more than a few seconds. The CV can only drop in small groups over time.

--> AA needs time to destroy, CV needs time to drop the load.

 

The AA is adapted to the playstyle of the CV. You can't keep the instant kill AA with the reworked CV, neither you could take the new AA with the old RTS gameplay. That just doesn't work

 

No idea what you mean with need time, but they nerved the speed in this test round. Also wasting planes leads, that you can't start full squads of the same type. You can see that in the video.

A midway needs over 13,5 minutes to reload a full squad of 9 torpedo bombers.

Thanks for explaining your reasoning, I really am curious.

However, I do see the depth (at least so far). But. I'm not talking about the general principles of the new gameplay (there are other threads about this), the topic was more about current toxic balance, next patch and how to cope with it.

As I see it, there are CVs and targets untill WG decides to buff AA.

 

To reiterate, I dont see any real counterplay at the moment.

At the end of the strike, that CV lost only 1-2 planes out of a full squad and each strike did about the normal DB squad damage (but there is now fewer squads, so that may be okay).

Those numbers are disproportionately in the CVs favour compared to present balance, where the CV would lose at least 2/4 squads striking a Minotaur.

It's probably fun for the CV, but unlikely to be fun for anyone else.

Games consisting of 3-4 CVs will see them mop up the surface combatants for the first 10 minutes, then once BB, DD and CA is dead, the CVs fight it out.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Thanks for explaining your reasoning, I really am curious.

However, I do see the depth (at least so far). But. I'm not talking about the general principles of the new gameplay, the topic was more about next patch and how to cope with it.

As I see it, there are CVs and targets untill WG decides to buff AA.

 

To reiterate, I dont see any real counterplay at the moment.

At the end of the strike, that CV lost only 1-2 planes out of a full squad and each strike did about the normal DB squad damage (but there is now fewer squads, so that may be okay).

Those numbers are disproportionately in the CVs favour compared to present balance, where the CV would lose at least 2/4 squads striking a Minotaur.

It's probably fun for the CV, but unlikely to be fun for anyone else.

Games consisting of 3-4 CVs will see them mop up the surface combatants for the first 10 minutes, then once BB, DD and CA is dead, the CVs fight it out.

 

 

Well, 2 squads are like losing the half squad of the rework, and that defintely happens. Even the Mogami shots down few planes which are like shooting 1 or 2 squads of the RTS. I played the Izumo and hot 4 planes of a T8, that's his half squad.

And it's not like losing just 1-2 planes, in some situation the CV will lose the whole squad, if bad played. (moving into a Mogami and Wooster for e.g. like Farazelleth in the video did)

 

You can see, planes will go down :D

20181227204156_1.thumb.jpg.57a88625833f5641aa7aee8f487b830d.jpg

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1 hour ago, 159Hunter said:

Notser, the guy claiming IFHE DM plays better than DM without it? Nuff said...

People still bring this up? Really? still.... after... all.. that.... time... :fish_book:

 

Give him a break 

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17 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

RTS just need to approach one time in a few seconds to drop everything off.

 

Then needs fly back, service and fly out again. Just circling your target and attacking over and over again is much, MUCH faster than that.

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