Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Negativvv

CV Rework: Change of Heart

35 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[NWP]
[NWP]
Players
8,241 posts
11,737 battles

Yes, believe it or not I think the Rework might actually be positive if tweaked properly.

 

Was losing a load of games just now and some were via very low skilled CVs vs competent ones.

 

Simply put our CVs got shut out, all planes shot down, unable to bomb much and poor target selection whereas their ones would know who to bomb, who to spot etc etc.

 

Now with the rework, the whole God-like spotting goes out the window as you have a single squadron so its a great leveller there.

 

Secondly, even a complete potato will never run out of planes so can always stay even slightly relevant.

 

Finally, the bombing looks fairly straight forward so again, the low skilled can do some damage atleast instead of auto drop failure.

 

My evening might have been improved if I was playing during the rework.

 

Then again I might have been permi CV rocket attacked as a DD...

 

Will still need a lot of work either way from what I hear from player feedback. 

 

We might not know if the rework is good or bad until it goes live, so my mind's more open that it was. :cap_book:

  • Cool 7
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,576 posts
5,698 battles

I mean, the issue to me is basically, yes, the potato might not get shut down by crappy air superiority. They still can get shut down by potatoing their aircraft into flak bubbles without WASDing (and let's be real, if people didn't learn it in BBs to avoid torps, why learn it now?) into fighters or into enemy CV AA. Meanwhile, the unicum is enabled to farm hard.

 

Frankly, if my team's CV was to get shut down in a balanced system, it'd be annoying, but that annoyance would have limits. Knowing that in a match with potato CV vs unicum CV my CV will be shutting themselves down still, while the unicum farms the team still, with noone in the team able to do much other than hug the CV for hope of passive flak kicking in, that sounds not like a whole lot of fun. At least at the moment, I can AA spec meaningfully and protect myself if the CV is too incompetent to do anything.

 

In short: The issue is not that my potato needs to be more useful. It's that we shouldn't be at the utter mercy of an enemy unicum in a class that as it is now allows for s**t-all counterplay by anything that doesn't have a controllable plane.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
[NWP]
Players
8,241 posts
11,737 battles
Just now, Riselotte said:

I mean, the issue to me is basically, yes, the potato might not get shut down by crappy air superiority. They still can get shut down by potatoing their aircraft into flak bubbles without WASDing (and let's be real, if people didn't learn it in BBs to avoid torps, why learn it now?) into fighters or into enemy CV AA. Meanwhile, the unicum is enabled to farm hard.

 

Frankly, if my team's CV was to get shut down in a balanced system, it'd be annoying, but that annoyance would have limits. Knowing that in a match with potato CV vs unicum CV my CV will be shutting themselves down still, while the unicum farms the team still, with noone in the team able to do much other than hug the CV for hope of passive flak kicking in, that sounds not like a whole lot of fun. At least at the moment, I can AA spec meaningfully and protect myself if the CV is too incompetent to do anything.

 

In short: The issue is not that my potato needs to be more useful. It's that we shouldn't be at the utter mercy of an enemy unicum in a class that as it is now allows for s**t-all counterplay by anything that doesn't have a controllable plane.

Yes that is very true, WG likely made a mistake in design or education (I say the latter) so the gulf between potato and unicum CVs is nearly impossible to make up and it drastically throws games in either direction. 

 

And yeah if Unicum CVs can laugh off even the heaviest AA then we will again be back to square one with the current issue of skewered teams. 

 

A lot of videos show Rocket Planes simply farming DDs back to port, if it's the same in 0.8.0 then the current CV imbalance will be exactly the same ultimately as Potato CVs farm BBs where as Unicum ones kill DDs and establish map control. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,576 posts
5,698 battles

 

I wonder how damn fun it was for all the people who were not in CVs for the last 8 minutes. To be honest, if it wasn't for that Des Moines holding out three minutes under constant plane harassment with nothing to do but try to not get murdered by [edited], they were all dead before half the match time was up. Meanwhile it took the rest of the time to not even be able to kill all enemy CVs and them feeding each other plane kills while trying to kill each other by a death of a thousand cuts. Is this what fun looks like? Is that Republique feeling the other fun that is having the current AA nerfed into being meaningless and sorely feeling that lack of a catapult fighter, the last ray of hope in such a situation?

 

And Flamu acknowledges himself, this wasn't even masterful CV play, that was him derping around half the time. Frankly, that Des Moines seems to have had a decent game despite its team dying around it. Its CVs seem to have been not too useful, but this mediocre skill was enough to just walk all over the Des Moines and win the game. I see no skill gap fixed, no interesting new way to interact with planes meaningfully that is more engaging than ctrl+click and trying to dodge, compared to sector switching (and potentially screwing yourself over) and dodging.

  • Cool 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MIRKO]
Players
407 posts
4,172 battles

I like this rework. Few tweaks is all we need and I will make sure to exploit every AA weakness allowed by WG. This way we will reach the balance faster, just need a community meltdown after people realize their AA is useless. Welcome the rocket-perma-spot meta.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
[NWP]
Players
8,241 posts
11,737 battles
16 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

 

I wonder how damn fun it was for all the people who were not in CVs for the last 8 minutes. To be honest, if it wasn't for that Des Moines holding out three minutes under constant plane harassment with nothing to do but try to not get murdered by [edited], they were all dead before half the match time was up. Meanwhile it took the rest of the time to not even be able to kill all enemy CVs and them feeding each other plane kills while trying to kill each other by a death of a thousand cuts. Is this what fun looks like? Is that Republique feeling the other fun that is having the current AA nerfed into being meaningless and sorely feeling that lack of a catapult fighter, the last ray of hope in such a situation?

 

And Flamu acknowledges himself, this wasn't even masterful CV play, that was him derping around half the time. Frankly, that Des Moines seems to have had a decent game despite its team dying around it. Its CVs seem to have been not too useful, but this mediocre skill was enough to just walk all over the Des Moines and win the game. I see no skill gap fixed, no interesting new way to interact with planes meaningfully that is more engaging than ctrl+click and trying to dodge, compared to sector switching (and potentially screwing yourself over) and dodging.

Hmm true again...  That game looked worse than the current system as the Republique was cheesed out the game almost straight away.

 

 

Ah WG, I try to be optimistic and see it's probably misguided :Smile_amazed:

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[YARRR]
Beta Tester
8,695 posts
14,617 battles

Saw an enemy Grozovoi captained by a player in my last match on the PTS.

Sent him back to port 3 minutes into it. He barely even reached the cap he was going for before he died.

If I tried that with current CVs I would've easily lost my entire strike to little or no effect provided said Grozovoi can find the DFAA button (and many can't. Yes, I'm serious).

Also needless to say that cap stayed neutral until I killed everything in the area, then I went ahead and took it myself. CVs are the best cap contesters now, too.

 

I also found some new ways to cheese fighters in the rework.

2019 year of the CV everyone.

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
980 posts
7,897 battles

This is what's coming to the Live Server guys. 

I would say 'Hold on to your butts.' 

But let's face it, they're gonna get rekt anyway. 

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
1,580 posts
13,490 battles
1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Saw an enemy Grozovoi captained by a player in my last match on the PTS.

Sent him back to port 3 minutes into it. He barely even reached the cap he was going for before he died.

If I tried that with current CVs I would've easily lost my entire strike to little or no effect provided said Grozovoi can find the DFAA button (and many can't. Yes, I'm serious).

Also needless to say that cap stayed neutral until I killed everything in the area, then I went ahead and took it myself. CVs are the best cap contesters now, too.

 

I also found some new ways to cheese fighters in the rework.

2019 year of the CV everyone.

CV's are OP AF in PTS. AA is basically useless unless you fly into flak. Plus, you can just strike over and over again. 

Def AA is useless. Especially on DDs. I tested full AA Gearing. I mean full AA. Everything you can imagine AA wise, and i shot down 1 plane whilst being attacked by a two CV's for 15 minutes. 

 

#Balance comrade! :Smile_veryhappy:

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[FL4-0]
Players
1,444 posts
7,289 battles
2 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Yes, believe it or not I think the Rework might actually be positive if tweaked properly.

 

Was losing a load of games just now and some were via very low skilled CVs vs competent ones.

 

Simply put our CVs got shut out, all planes shot down, unable to bomb much and poor target selection whereas their ones would know who to bomb, who to spot etc etc.

 

Now with the rework, the whole God-like spotting goes out the window as you have a single squadron so its a great leveller there.

 

Secondly, even a complete potato will never run out of planes so can always stay even slightly relevant.

 

Finally, the bombing looks fairly straight forward so again, the low skilled can do some damage atleast instead of auto drop failure.

 

My evening might have been improved if I was playing during the rework.

 

Then again I might have been permi CV rocket attacked as a DD...

 

Will still need a lot of work either way from what I hear from player feedback. 

 

We might not know if the rework is good or bad until it goes live, so my mind's more open that it was. :cap_book:

I congratulate you for having discovered that the success of a CV player is based on the ineptitude of the opposing CV. It only took him 11k of battles to discover it.

 

It's a seal clubbing class where you only need to beat 1 player.

 

Now excuse me but I have to prepare tons of popcorn while I see that the inflated WR of some players collapses in the coming months.

  • Cool 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MUMMY]
Beta Tester
92 posts
6,929 battles
5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Saw an enemy Grozovoi captained by a player in my last match on the PTS.

Sent him back to port 3 minutes into it. He barely even reached the cap he was going for before he died.

If I tried that with current CVs I would've easily lost my entire strike to little or no effect provided said Grozovoi can find the DFAA button (and many can't. Yes, I'm serious).

Also needless to say that cap stayed neutral until I killed everything in the area, then I went ahead and took it myself. CVs are the best cap contesters now, too.

 

I also found some new ways to cheese fighters in the rework.

2019 year of the CV everyone.

I also love the fact that now you don't even have to waste time cutting down enemy fighters or spot torps for your team but can focus on playing with the enemy ships... and i do mean playing in a sense of licking the tears off their faces to feel the salt just before they die :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MUMMY]
Beta Tester
92 posts
6,929 battles
3 minutes ago, Darth_Glorious said:

The irony is that CV stock AA is far better than a full AA specced BB, CA or DD in new CV rework :cap_haloween:

 

Well in first 3 iterations of closed tests it was super easy to snipe out the other cv tbh... and from that point on it was game over for enemy team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,576 posts
5,698 battles
14 minutes ago, SirCaitlynJenner said:

Well in first 3 iterations of closed tests it was super easy to snipe out the other cv tbh... and from that point on it was game over for enemy team

When that vid from Flamu up there is any indication of the current state, then now it's just CVs cleaning up the trash for half the game, then the real battle begins when only glorious CV master race survived to end game...

  • Funny 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,437 posts
17 minutes ago, SirCaitlynJenner said:

Well in first 3 iterations of closed tests it was super easy to snipe out the other cv tbh... and from that point on it was game over for enemy team

It is funny now that 2 T10 CV staying together can block any air attack until when you attack them from afar with Jap deep water torp bombers.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,437 posts
5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

When that vid from Flamu up there is any indication of the current state, then now it's just CVs cleaning up the trash for half the game, then the real battle begins when only glorious CV master race survived to end game...

yes, no other class survives after 10 min of the game :cap_haloween:

CV-war.jpg

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,576 posts
5,698 battles
4 minutes ago, Darth_Glorious said:

It is funny now that 2 T10 CV staying together can block any air attack until you attack them from afar with Jap deep water torp bombers.

 

Just now, Darth_Glorious said:

yes, no other classes survives after 10 min of the game :cap_haloween:

CV-war.jpg

Honestly, I feel like this might not equalise CV skill gap, but it might equalise BB skill gap, because I get the feeling that my new "favourite" T10 will be range Mod Yamato so I can always stay next to my CVs for actual AA protection and snipe CVs across the map. I would think that'll get boring fast though. It might sound retarded, but if the alternative is certain death...

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[KAKE]
Players
1,254 posts
3,473 battles

I feel like I'm in a minority here, but as a non-cv player I am genuinely not that bothered by the current (RTS) CVs.

 

I mean, for one thing they're rare enough that you see plenty of games without them. Of the games that have them, a fair number are reasonably balanced. And you win because the enemy cv was a potato as often as you lose because it was the other way around.

 

Meanwhile, a far greater number of games is lost because the DDs on your team potato and die early on.

 

The reworked CVs on the other hand just look like they're going to make playing as other classes frustrating for both teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ICI]
[ICI]
Players
724 posts
4,083 battles
34 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

 

 

Meanwhile, a far greater number of games is lost because the DDs on your team potato and die early on.

 

 

You mean with the new rework they will die even quicker?!? :cap_haloween:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OP-B]
Beta Tester
583 posts
3,307 battles
39 minutes ago, Linkaex said:

You mean with the new rework they will die even quicker?!? :cap_haloween:

It is more that every potato can hit a DD now, where before it was only for unicum CVs with a cross drop. On the other hand we've been mostly playing against bots, so I still have a good feeling about the rework. All high tier ships can strike hard, so why not CVs as well?

 

 

1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

 

Honestly, I feel like this might not equalise CV skill gap, but it might equalise BB skill gap, because I get the feeling that my new "favourite" T10 will be range Mod Yamato so I can always stay next to my CVs for actual AA protection and snipe CVs across the map. I would think that'll get boring fast though. It might sound retarded, but if the alternative is certain death...

Ships that have access to the fighter plane can launch a fighter squadron. I believe Yamato can do this as well, so you don't really need the CV. 
I think an important job of the CV is trying to get as close as possible to a certain cap for maximum cover. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
7,858 posts
10,066 battles
7 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

It is more that every potato can hit a DD now, where before it was only for unicum CVs with a cross drop. On the other hand we've been mostly playing against bots, so I still have a good feeling about the rework. All high tier ships can strike hard, so why not CVs as well?

Because CVs don't have to risk getting fired upon whilst farming damage.

 

The prevous rationale was that their combat effectiveness was measured in form of strike aircraft numbers rather than ship HP and that's why CVs had to pick their targets to preserve their striking capability, but with infinite plane reserves that argument crashes straight on the runway before even taking off. And with those aircraft being so much faster now you don't even have to be close to the action to keep your strikes cycling fast enough to do damage. A potato can go straight for A1/J10 in a mapcorner and still attack ships on the opposite side of the map in a handful seconds tops, not like the same playstyle wasting precious minutes when trying the same nonsense right now.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,576 posts
5,698 battles
13 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Ships that have access to the fighter plane can launch a fighter squadron. I believe Yamato can do this as well, so you don't really need the CV. 
I think an important job of the CV is trying to get as close as possible to a certain cap for maximum cover. 

And that fighter squad is up there forever and effective? What about ships like Republique without aircraft? Fun times when Yama has more effective air defense than a Repu. Not that I put much stock in either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SB]
Players
52 posts
1,383 battles
8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Saw an enemy Grozovoi captained by a player in my last match on the PTS.

Sent him back to port 3 minutes into it. He barely even reached the cap he was going for before he died.

If I tried that with current CVs I would've easily lost my entire strike to little or no effect provided said Grozovoi can find the DFAA button (and many can't. Yes, I'm serious).

Also needless to say that cap stayed neutral until I killed everything in the area, then I went ahead and took it myself. CVs are the best cap contesters now, too.

 

I also found some new ways to cheese fighters in the rework.

2019 year of the CV everyone.

How? You also mentioned that it's possible to dodge long range flak, is that by timing the flak clouds and then changing course half a second or so before they hit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OP-B]
Beta Tester
583 posts
3,307 battles
1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

And that fighter squad is up there forever and effective? What about ships like Republique without aircraft? Fun times when Yama has more effective air defense than a Repu. Not that I put much stock in either.

By your first reply I thought you weren't aware that they changed the fighter consumable. 

Yamato is a more static ship than the Rep, so it makes sense to me that it has a consumable to give it some time to speed up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,437 posts
1 minute ago, MadGunna said:

How? You also mentioned that it's possible to dodge long range flak, is that by timing the flak clouds and then changing course half a second or so before they hit?

Speed rules the flak bursts game, just stack speed boost to your plane and you can outrun the flak when using booster, slow speed when zig zag to fast change direction and you will see how trashy the AA became.

In low tier your plane speed is too slow and you don't get the bonus speed module so your planes are much harder to dodge flak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×