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Atankean

NOT Carolina

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Allright, this is going to be kind of a "rant" and at the same time kinda looking for "help".

 

I have unlocked the North Carolina and am somewhat "confused" with it. I watched Flamus videos about the NC and he likes the ship so much that he said "its how BBs should be". After playing 13 games in the NC with abysmal results, I found myself STRONGLY opposing his comment.

 

Think whatever you want of Flamu, he is quite a competent player, far above my league. Also, I think most of the time he gets things right so i like to listen to his advice and I have improved my gameplay drastically thanks to him, so this is not about Flamu per se.

 

However, the NC has a couple problems which I consider to be quite "anti BB". First, the NC is insanely squishy. Sometimes it feels like a Mogami or even like the English Cruisers. I refuse to use the term "punished" when giving any form of Broadside in the NC. Punished is far too kind of a word. Absolutely Massacred, Utterly Devastated, Total Annihilation are terms that I would deem close to describing what the NC is. Considering one "selling point" of Battleships is their durability, I fail to see how this can be considered an "ideal" for a Battleship. The Bismarck, which I also have and in which I am doing comparably better, is a more fitting solution I think. The Bismarck is far from "invulnerable" and its Broadside can and will be punished but it does not blow up when someone "sneezes" in its direction.

 

Then there is the guns. Oh boy. This one really cracks me up. The NC has long range hard hitting guns, which is fine BUT the shells seem to be taking coffee brakes in the air :/. Even at 10 km I had to rely on my enemies incompetence to push a button to have a chance to hit them reliably. Even if I aimed perfectly, If the enemy ship was somewhat fast enough (Cruisers or even fast and nimble Battleships/Battlecruisers) and "slightly tapped" WASD, ding ding, you missed try again. A Ship that relies on the enemies incompetence to be "good" is NOT a good ship in my book. In higher tiers, incompetent enemies become rarer and rarer (I know some of you will disagree but compared to lower tiers I mean).

 

Now I generally hate those so called "floaty shells" but at least on Cruisers, you can fire your guns more often and so it somewhat compensates but floaty gambling shells every 30 seconds? yeah no thanks.

 

You could of course go into brawling distance to make your shells work but...well I allready made the point of the "squishyness".

 

The playstyle of the NC so far as I could see it from Youtubers, seems to be Nose in mid to long range snipey "stationary turret". It requires the brain of a chess champion with supercomputer speeds to determine the next moves of ally and enemy to be at the exact perfect spot and pray the enemy does not somehow rush your position or get to a better vantage point because then youre just done. Did I mention the NC handles like a ton of bricks chained to a Concrete Wall? makes it really "easy" to get out of situations if your chess brain fails you somehow (yes that was sarcasm).

 

The Bismarck is a far better solution. First, the Bismarck wants you to play and maneuver actively, long range sniping with german "accuracy"? yeah no! Ironically this is something Flamu himself is always griping about, BBs sitting back and sniping from long range EXACTLY THE GAMESTYLE THE NC IS ACTIVELY PROMOTING. So it confuses me when he says "how BBs should be". Seems paradox.

 

The Bismarck also wants you to draw fire (to some degree). It is tanky in many situations (not just nose in) and it not only provides firepower but also its Armor to the benefit of the team. That doesnt mean the Bismarck can just blindly rush in and do as it pleases, like many criticized because of its turtleback design. I tried that and unless your opponents are mentally challenged apes, your game will be over fast.

 

To keep it short, the NC so far is utter garbage. I had more fun with the Colorado and that should say all.

 

I may be doing something horribly wrong, this is possible but the last Battleship I did suck in so badly was the South Carolina (hmm, strange coincidence incidently) so I have some doubts. Am I alone?

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  • show broadside --> get punished (how BB should be, not sailing around without a care in the world and get cuddled by WG nonetheless)
  • the guns are VERY accurate and extremly punchy, you just have to get used to the longer flight times (easy) and take advantage of the floaty arcs when shooting over islands
  • Bismarck and other german BB teach a too carefree playstile, you can make a lot of mistakes and survive
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One of the reason Flamu considers the NC to be how BBs should be is because it gets deleted if it gives broadside. Bismarck basically is more idiot proof in that regard, though the existence of a turtleback protecting your citadel still doesn't mean that anything but autobounce angle is great for tanking, as repeatedly losing 20k or so of your hp just from regular pens in the side due to being out of position is still hp thrown away for minimal gain. If you mind your angles, North Carolina is quite tanky too. 

 

As for the guns, yes, the shells are floaty. But it's entirely possible to play this ship from 12 km away, fade in and out of vision and see who reacts and who doesn't. North Carolina is obscenely accurate, almost like a T8 Yamato (though Yamato guns at overmatch and have a bit faster shells. Still needs getting used to after Izumo).I recommend that if your target actually dodges, you try to see if there is a pattern to their evasive action, then adjust accordingly (like, if they tend to angle away when you shoot, just raise the sight slightly to adjust for it. If you can fire all 3 guns, you also can fire the three turrets accounting for both possibilities, with one turret just shooting at an alternative course you suspect the target could take.

 

Bismarck's guns are not terrible, but their accuracy is very mediocre and they hit nowhere as hard as the USN 16 inch shells, which only have some competition in the IJN 41 cm gun BBs.

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as I allready stated in my post I do not think the Bismarck is as carefree as people assume. Yes it is unlikely to get deleted in one salvo but then again its a BATTLESHIP it is not supposed to get deleted with one salvo.

 

Heck, everybody was furious about how DDs got deleted by BB AP and WG then nerfed it so now its very hard to delete DDs in one Salvo. How is it right to not be able to delete flimsy DDs in one Salvo but wrong to not be able to delete supposedly tanky BBs in same Salvo. Again, seems paradox to me.

 

I have seen careless Bismarck players and I have seen them sink to the bottom fast. The Bismarck is not as Bulletproof as people make it out to be, any players giving too much Broadside in it, rely on the incompetence of the enemy team. Shots taken at the Broadside of a Bismarck will be felt and unless the player learns his lesson they will be sent back to the Harbor rather quickly.

 

The only real difference I see between those two concepts is, in the Bismarck you get punished for careless and incompetent gameplay while in the NC you just get punished.

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12 minutes ago, Atankean said:

as I allready stated in my post I do not think the Bismarck is as carefree as people assume. Yes it is unlikely to get deleted in one salvo but then again its a BATTLESHIP it is not supposed to get deleted with one salvo.

It gets deleted in one salvo by one BB if it gets hit by like 4 citpens and a punch of normal pens. Unless you get outflanked and get some BB unloading their 8-12 guns into your broadside from below 5 km, it's rare.

15 minutes ago, Atankean said:

Heck, everybody was furious about how DDs got deleted by BB AP and WG then nerfed it so now its very hard to delete DDs in one Salvo. How is it right to not be able to delete flimsy DDs in one Salvo but wrong to not be able to delete supposedly tanky BBs in same Salvo. Again, seems paradox to me.

Game balance and because BBs could devastate DDs from any angle, BBs can devastate BBs from very specific angles. If it makes you feel better, eating a torp can easily oneshot a DD too, especially IJN ones. So DDs can oneshot DDs too, not just BBs other BBs.

17 minutes ago, Atankean said:

I have seen careless Bismarck players and I have seen them sink to the bottom fast. The Bismarck is not as Bulletproof as people make it out to be, any players giving too much Broadside in it, rely on the incompetence of the enemy team. Shots taken at the Broadside of a Bismarck will be felt and unless the player learns his lesson they will be sent back to the Harbor rather quickly.

Yes. Then, why don't you apply your Bismarck lessons to NC and avoid showing broadside that leads to citpens?

18 minutes ago, Atankean said:

The only real difference I see between those two concepts is, in the Bismarck you get punished for careless and incompetent gameplay while in the NC you just get punished.

Only BBs that can citpen you while angled are Yamato and Musashi, which is kind of their thing and they do it to any ship that has a citadel, except maybe Kurfürst, Moskva, Stalingrad and a properly angled Yamato/Musashi. Just because NC is harder to play than Bismarck doesn't mean that you get punished when actually being competent.

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10 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

It gets deleted in one salvo by one BB if it gets hit by like 4 citpens and a punch of normal pens. Unless you get outflanked and get some BB unloading their 8-12 guns into your broadside from below 5 km, it's rare. 

Im guessing you mean the Bismarck and yes it can get deleted but as you said its rare and it should be rare.

11 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Game balance and because BBs could devastate DDs from any angle, BBs can devastate BBs from very specific angles. If it makes you feel better, eating a torp can easily oneshot a DD too, especially IJN ones. So DDs can oneshot DDs too, not just BBs other BBs. 

I am all for game balance over historical accuracy, especially in a Arcade type game but think about it, a DD has allready a couple of advantages over BBs. Its Concealment, torps, ability to "stealth fire" from smoke, its speed, its maneuverability etc. so even before the nerf it was not completely helpless. I am not saying by the way that the nerf wasnt good, quite the opposite but I do not think that the game balance requires more stable DDs and more squishy BBs.

15 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Yes. Then, why don't you apply your Bismarck lessons to NC and avoid showing broadside that leads to citpens? 

Now you are just trolling me I hope :). Of course I tried to apply the lessons that I not only learned in the Bismarck but all other BBs before. However, I allready described why its very hard to do so especially in a random Battle environment where you also rely on your team (and we all know how this can turn out). Just had a game where I did everything "by the book" and just because my team decided to collectively turn around and flee and even though I reacted in time was not able to get back as fast, I got deleted with ease by the rushing enemy team. You know such situations, you had enough battles yourself.

19 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Only BBs that can citpen you while angled are Yamato and Musashi, which is kind of their thing and they do it to any ship that has a citadel, except maybe Kurfürst, Moskva, Stalingrad and a properly angled Yamato/Musashi. Just because NC is harder to play than Bismarck doesn't mean that you get punished when actually being competent.

Yeah sure but how competent do I need to be? Unicum levels competent? That is rather crucial information to know because there is reason why we call them Unicums. Such skill is rare and by no means the majority of even competent players.

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3 minutes ago, Atankean said:

Im guessing you mean the Bismarck and yes it can get deleted but as you said its rare and it should be rare.

No, I mean NC. NC only has a vulnerable citadel from the side, so unless it gets outflanked, it is pretty fine.

5 minutes ago, Atankean said:

I am all for game balance over historical accuracy, especially in a Arcade type game but think about it, a DD has allready a couple of advantages over BBs. Its Concealment, torps, ability to "stealth fire" from smoke, its speed, its maneuverability etc. so even before the nerf it was not completely helpless. I am not saying by the way that the nerf wasnt good, quite the opposite but I do not think that the game balance requires more stable DDs and more squishy BBs.

BB has a massive hp advantage, a massive firepower advantage, a massive armour advantage, a repair party... DDs aren't helpless, though you might argue, how do torps help survive getting fullpenned by a BB AP salvo and dying?

9 minutes ago, Atankean said:

Now you are just trolling me I hope :). Of course I tried to apply the lessons that I not only learned in the Bismarck but all other BBs before. However, I allready described why its very hard to do so especially in a random Battle environment where you also rely on your team (and we all know how this can turn out). Just had a game where I did everything "by the book" and just because my team decided to collectively turn around and flee and even though I reacted in time was not able to get back as fast, I got deleted with ease by the rushing enemy team. You know such situations, you had enough battles yourself.

I'm not trolling you. But NC isn't my first BB that has such issues. If you ever had played Izumo or Yamato/Musashi you know what it means to have a vulnerable side. It means planning ahead when to turn and be extra careful about what the situation around you is like, so you can try react while it's still possible. And in an NC with silly concealment it's way easier than Yamato with its 13.5 km on full concealment build.

13 minutes ago, Atankean said:

Yeah sure but how competent do I need to be? Unicum levels competent? That is rather crucial information to know because there is reason why we call them Unicums. Such skill is rare and by no means the majority of even competent players.

Not really. There exist 55%ers with a decent record in the ship, so you certainly don't need unicum skills.

 

Also, while the shells at T9 and T10 get a bit faster, the ships keep having an overmatchable citadel deck, so don't expect Montana giving broadside to work out that much better against BBs.

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Battleships got rekt in real life as well. Though it might've been a rare case,

34 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Unless you get outflanked and get some BB unloading their 8-12 guns into your broadside from below 5 km, it's rare.

...USS Washington (coincidentally a North Carolina-class battleship) needed a few salvo's to reduce Kirishima to a sinking wreck.

 

11 minutes ago, Atankean said:

Im guessing you mean the Bismarck and yes it can get deleted but as you said its rare and it should be rare.

I think it shouldn't be. I think @Fiery_Kathy hits the nail on the head in this topic:

I think battleships should have a vulnerable side. That would discourage screwing around. Some battleships are too forgiving at the moment I think, but I think North Carolina is fine.

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14 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

BB has a massive hp advantage, a massive firepower advantage, a massive armour advantage, a repair party... DDs aren't helpless, though you might argue, how do torps help survive getting fullpenned by a BB AP salvo and dying?

 

Even before the nerf, there were more then enough DD Players who could avoid getting in positions where a BB could get off a deadly Salvo at them. The torps are obviously not meant as a direct protection but they can work wonders in either distracting BBs, forcing them to change directions and therefore gaining time to get out of critical situation or outright delete BBs who could shoot at them. So it was an indirect protection in terms of game balance. Again, I am happy about the nerf, I did not like the ridiculous damage that AP did to DDs, making HE worthless for all but British BBs. Now there is a reason to switch to HE which adds more depth and sense to gameplay. So I am all in favor of this mechanic, just to make sure we understand each other.

 

However, ships like Bismarck (or any BB with hard to Citadel Broadsides) have shown that just because a BB can not be completely devastated by the first Broadside he gives does mean that BBs get OP. Would you consider Bismarck OP? Maybe this Citadel Mechanic is just like the DD AP mechanic before the nerf. It is unjustly and overly punishing....just a maybe I am not trying to say it is but why should something that has been a great nuisance to DD Captains (stupidly punishing AP against DDs) be allowed to be talked and thought about but considering Citadel Mechanics in BBs is a taboo and is always reacted with "get good". Why did we not tell DD Captains to "get good"?

 

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17 minutes ago, Atankean said:

 

Even before the nerf, there were more then enough DD Players who could avoid getting in positions where a BB could get off a deadly Salvo at them. The torps are obviously not meant as a direct protection but they can work wonders in either distracting BBs, forcing them to change directions and therefore gaining time to get out of critical situation or outright delete BBs who could shoot at them. So it was an indirect protection in terms of game balance. Again, I am happy about the nerf, I did not like the ridiculous damage that AP did to DDs, making HE worthless for all but British BBs. Now there is a reason to switch to HE which adds more depth and sense to gameplay. So I am all in favor of this mechanic, just to make sure we understand each other.

Doing damage to DDs wasn't dependent on positioning, it was dependent on RNG. If you were within any reasonable range of a BB, you could get blapped or overpenned or missed depending on RNG if you ever got spotted. That was bad game design, because not just is it more or less pointless what the DD does and what the BB does in order to heighten/reduce chances of a hit, but also, often you get spotted through surprising means. At T8 for example, 3 out of four radar cruisers basically can hit the radar button as soon as they get detected by ships they don't see and the DD is visible. And in that situation especially, as a DD, the BB becomes an afterthought, because that cruiser is the main issue as it requires far less RNG for them to kill you. If however you then get RNG blapped by BBs, it naturally is just silly.

23 minutes ago, Atankean said:

However, ships like Bismarck (or any BB with hard to Citadel Broadsides) have shown that just because a BB can not be completely devastated by the first Broadside he gives does mean that BBs get OP. Would you consider Bismarck OP? Maybe this Citadel Mechanic is just like the DD AP mechanic before the nerf. It is unjustly and overly punishing....just a maybe I am not trying to say it is but why should something that has been a great nuisance to DD Captains (stupidly punishing AP against DDs) be allowed to be talked and thought about but considering Citadel Mechanics in BBs is a taboo and is always reacted with "get good". Why did we not tell DD Captains to "get good"?

Almost all German BBs are balanced with their citadel protection in mind. It is hard to overlook the fact that in return for its armour, Bismarck gets only 8 38 cm guns at T8. Even with faster reload, it's behind Monarch with 9 38 cm guns with even faster reload, NC with normal reload but 9 40.6 cm guns and the Amagi with normal reload and 10 41 cm guns. Accuracy on the Bismarck also is far more questionable than on Amagi and NC. So, arguing about all BBs needing German levels of cit protection is like arguing that all DDs need Russian levels of speed and hp, regardless of their other strengths.

 

And we are talking about git gud for NC players, because there is an obvious mistake that leads to an expectable result. Presenting broadside => Eating citadel hits with high likelihood. For a DD prior to the AP fix, whether you lived or died was mostly up to RNG. Given BBs overmatch DDs, there was no right or wrong course of action. You could try present broadside to get overpenned, but even then you'd at times see full pens happen. And not presenting broadside is easier than never getting spotted near a BB.

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@Atankean

At tier 8 the gameplay becomes more advanced. Some useful tips the others didn't provide:

 

  • NC has 406mm guns. These guns can overmatch the bow armour of all cruisers, so you can strike really hard no matter the angle of a cruiser.
  • NC has slow velocity shells. They teach you fast that it is useless to shoot at kiting cruisers. It is a fight you will lose in any battleship.
  • NC has good accuracy for a BB. You can strike broadside ships really hard.
  • NC has decent concealment. Make use of this to strike ships really hard. 



Bismarck for example can't overmatch the bow armour of KM and US CA's. A Hipper can rush a Bismarck without taking much damage and torp it or a Baltimore can sit bow on and burn them down. So it are basically trades that are being made. Weaker main guns for better citadel protection. Yamato and Musashi for example are pretty easy to citadel when they make a mistake, but get really good main guns in return. Those ships can overmatch the bow armour of all ships, except the GK.

As your presumptions of DD I'd say play DD yourself.

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3 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Bismarck for example can't overmatch the bow armour of KM and US CA's. A Hipper can rush a Bismarck without taking much damage and torp it or a Baltimore can sit bow on and burn them down.

You can rush or spam German BB if you know you can minimise the time spent in their secondary bubble, else you are just throwing hp away. BB has repair party, Hipper has not. Prinz Eugen can try the yolorush, but even then...

Spoiler

shot-18_12.16_20_46.04-0636.jpg.a4d9e467

 

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On 12/31/2018 at 7:56 PM, Riselotte said:

If however you then get RNG blapped by BBs, it naturally is just silly.

again, completely agree, as stated, I am absolutely pro BB AP nerf towards DDs. You wont find me arguing against it.

 

On 12/31/2018 at 7:56 PM, Riselotte said:

And we are talking about git gud for NC players, because there is an obvious mistake that leads to an expectable result. Presenting broadside => Eating citadel hits with high likelihood. For a DD prior to the AP fix, whether you lived or died was mostly up to RNG. Given BBs overmatch DDs, there was no right or wrong course of action. You could try present broadside to get overpenned, but even then you'd at times see full pens happen. And not presenting broadside is easier than never getting spotted near a BB.

Yes but there is one small issue here. You cannot completely eliminate RNG. If the ships are "perfectly" balanced, the players, especially in random will not. That will lead to situations, where despite even your best efforts, even if you did everything perfectly, you will find yourself in a situation where its impossible not to show Broadside. Besides, every Salvo that is controlled by mathematical equations like Sigma (so basically every shot) is RNG in its nature. You can give perfect Broadside, the enemy can shoot at your exact location and still miss with every shot (or hit with every shot respectively) so there is also RNG there. Whether we like it or not, this is not Chess and RNG is actually an integral part of the game. To completely eliminate RNG, every ship would have to be basically the same with laser accurate guns but I strongly doubt such a game (which would be boring quite fast) would have any player left after the first week.

 

The real issue is, to make sure that RNG is not an overly "unfair" feature. Such was the case with the DDs and BB AP.

 

I find it a little odd, that a BB, especially one that looks so "glorious" like the NC feels as flimsy and paper as the worst Cruiser (Hell I feel safer in my Mogami tbh). That throws me off a little.

 

I believe you that the NC is a good BB and as I said, I have seen people make it work. So after another couple games (with at best mediocre results), I made a decision. I will sell the NC and abandon the American BB line. It was a tough decision to make but I had to realize that the NC and I are not made for each other. Thanks for your effort though. I leave the NC to the professionals, she is obviously wasted in my hands.

 

Thank you all for your replies!

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BB in general and NC in particular are tough ships, especially compared to cruisers.

Good luck tanking these shots in a Mogami.

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NC imho is the best T8 BB. It can dish out damage reliably, shoot down any air attack from T8 CV and most planes from T9 CVs that dare to attack it. Accuracy is great, maneuverability is great, speed is good, turret traverse is also good... No real drawbacks for me.

Yes, shells are slow but penetration values are still very good - learn how to aim and kill camping CA/CLs behind islands, leaving them in awe.

Yes, the ship has vulnerable citadel but that is irrelevant when you have some basic knowledge of armor angling.

 

After Colorado, NC seems a bit too vulnerable, especially if you have not played other similar fast battleships. Colorado is more forgiving due to its great side armor - you can almost play like a very slow KM BB. Show too much side in NC and you will get killed.

I find the best armor angle for NC to be when you can fire all your guns at the ship shooting you. Just a tiny bit more broadside and you may take citadel hits, a bit less and you lose 1/3 of your firepower.

 

OFF TOPIC: 

7 hours ago, Atankean said:

again, completely agree, as stated, I am absolutely pro BB AP nerf towards DDs. You wont find me arguing against it.

I strongly disagree with the current implementation. Indeed lucky BB salvo deleting a DD from 10km is plain stupid. However, the current meta promotes DDs to simply rush BBs and torp them from point-blank range. I died several times in my Monty and Yama due to this - when supporting cruisers retreat or die, DDs immediately chase me down and torp me from <5km. My first salvo is usually AP because it is the default ammo that I use. When I switch to HE, it's usually too late. In my Monty this is especially bad as I use accuracy upgrade instead of reload and I can never switch ammo in time.

Another point is that you just can't convince me that a BB AP going through a DD lengthwise should do 10% of its max damage...

Notser had a good suggestion about this (for the sake of balance) - at less than certain distance, BB AP should behave as it did (let's say less than 6km) and at longer ranges than that it should only overpen.

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8 hours ago, Atankean said:

I find it a little odd, that a BB, especially one that looks so "glorious" like the NC feels as flimsy and paper as the worst Cruiser (Hell I feel safer in my Mogami tbh). That throws me off a little.

 

I believe you that the NC is a good BB and as I said, I have seen people make it work. So after another couple games (with at best mediocre results), I made a decision. I will sell the NC and abandon the American BB line. It was a tough decision to make but I had to realize that the NC and I are not made for each other. Thanks for your effort though. I leave the NC to the professionals, she is obviously wasted in my hands.

It's a shame, it is a good ship and will give even mediocre players good results (me).

 

It is a great all-round BB, but doesn't fare well in an early push (unless you happen to choose an empty flank, which is rare). Early game, be more cautious - position semi-bow in to the cap you want to defend, with your detection range just inside the far-side of the cap circle (on smaller caps). Make sure you have an island between you, your broadside and the enemy team, and provided you have a DD and/or CA/CL with you (mostly to prevent a torp-rush), you should comfortably be able to deal with 3 enemies no matter who they are (Musashi and Yamato the exceptions). once you have secured that cap and flank or got down to 1 lowish health enemy (whilst keeping an eye on the MM to see how the team fares) that is generally the time to start your more aggressive push (making sure you have DCP ready and heal party almost ready). If the situation turns sour, time it right for a turn and you can kits just as well as you can bow-tank.

 

Keep at it. Yes, showing your broadside is a mistake but if you don't do it then you'll be fine :).

 

My results (and I'm not a good player!)

 

image.thumb.png.1933d48b315eb61d17d2c41d581017dd.png

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On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 9:48 AM, almitov said:

 

OFF TOPIC: 

I strongly disagree with the current implementation. Indeed lucky BB salvo deleting a DD from 10km is plain stupid. However, the current meta promotes DDs to simply rush BBs and torp them from point-blank range. I died several times in my Monty and Yama due to this - when supporting cruisers retreat or die, DDs immediately chase me down and torp me from <5km. My first salvo is usually AP because it is the default ammo that I use. When I switch to HE, it's usually too late. In my Monty this is especially bad as I use accuracy upgrade instead of reload and I can never switch ammo in time.

Another point is that you just can't convince me that a BB AP going through a DD lengthwise should do 10% of its max damage...

Notser had a good suggestion about this (for the sake of balance) - at less than certain distance, BB AP should behave as it did (let's say less than 6km) and at longer ranges than that it should only overpen.

Maybe it's just the ships I've been using more recently (FR BBs and Montana) but I haven't noticed a big issue - from the BB side -  with the nerf. I have blapped DDs with regularity, and if the mains don't get them (usually 3-10k damage from the mains) then the secondaries finish them off or at least highlight an easy kill to the team.

 

On topic I think the OP just needs to click with NC. One of the hardest things to get used to with this ship is muzzle velocity and flight time. Once you get in the groove (and improve anticipation of enemy movements) then you will regularly be getting 10-30k hits on enemies at most non-autobounce angles. NC (and Alamba, Iowa, Missouri) is a perfect flank pushing ship; keep your noise pointed at the enemy and use your speed to get round the side and get crossfires.

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On 1/2/2019 at 10:48 AM, almitov said:

OFF TOPIC: 

I strongly disagree with the current implementation. Indeed lucky BB salvo deleting a DD from 10km is plain stupid. However, the current meta promotes DDs to simply rush BBs and torp them from point-blank range. I died several times in my Monty and Yama due to this - when supporting cruisers retreat or die, DDs immediately chase me down and torp me from <5km. My first salvo is usually AP because it is the default ammo that I use. When I switch to HE, it's usually too late. In my Monty this is especially bad as I use accuracy upgrade instead of reload and I can never switch ammo in time.

Another point is that you just can't convince me that a BB AP going through a DD lengthwise should do 10% of its max damage...

Notser had a good suggestion about this (for the sake of balance) - at less than certain distance, BB AP should behave as it did (let's say less than 6km) and at longer ranges than that it should only overpen.

You are out of position if you can only shoot one salvo vs rushing DD.

Even with 20 knot BB with bad dispersion I can usually kite DD long enough and sink them before they sink me.

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On 1/2/2019 at 10:48 AM, almitov said:

OFF TOPIC: 

I strongly disagree with the current implementation. Indeed lucky BB salvo deleting a DD from 10km is plain stupid. However, the current meta promotes DDs to simply rush BBs and torp them from point-blank range. I died several times in my Monty and Yama due to this - when supporting cruisers retreat or die, DDs immediately chase me down and torp me from <5km. My first salvo is usually AP because it is the default ammo that I use. When I switch to HE, it's usually too late. In my Monty this is especially bad as I use accuracy upgrade instead of reload and I can never switch ammo in time.

Another point is that you just can't convince me that a BB AP going through a DD lengthwise should do 10% of its max damage...

Notser had a good suggestion about this (for the sake of balance) - at less than certain distance, BB AP should behave as it did (let's say less than 6km) and at longer ranges than that it should only overpen.

I have had more issues with Moskvas deciding to yoloram my ship than with DDs trying to yolotorp me. But I also don't go "well, that's retarded, that cruiser shouldn't get 50 mm plating to be bowtanking my BB", but rather I consider that maybe I should account for the possibility that a cornered Moskva can actually go for the ram and that a DD might actually try rush me with torps.

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Is someone really complaining about the strongest silver tier 8 BB ? Wow.

 

I don't even wants to elaborate. The only answer to this is "GIT GUD". 

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55 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You are out of position if you can only shoot one salvo vs rushing DD.

Even with 20 knot BB with bad dispersion I can usually kite DD long enough and sink them before they sink me.

If a DD is chasing me I can kite a long time. If I am pushing a position with CA/CL support and suddenly my backup shows broadside and gets blapped, and the DD yolo-rushes me then... I get killed. I can't turn away before he slams all his torps at my broadside and if I stay nose-in, he'll just torp me from point-blank range. Changing ammo, even with expert loader will take about 13-15s, during which time he can kill me. I have died several times in this exact situation already. A stupid solution is not to count on teammates and play safe at a longer range >> Everyone complains about BBabies staying at 20+km and being useless, yet WG tends to kill any incentive to stay up close in a BB. For me now it looks like - no division >> no BB.

 

42 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I have had more issues with Moskvas deciding to yoloram my ship than with DDs trying to yolotorp me. But I also don't go "well, that's retarded, that cruiser shouldn't get 50 mm plating to be bowtanking my BB", but rather I consider that maybe I should account for the possibility that a cornered Moskva can actually go for the ram and that a DD might actually try rush me with torps.

I already gave an example of the situations I've died by yolo-rushing DDs. If I'm alone I would never rush a flank like that. As for Moskva ramming - never had this issue. There were several attempts but most BBs can and do outspot Moskva - it is really hard to get in such situations. Also, Moskva and Stalingrad turn like $hit and it's not too hard to avoid ramming (did it twice in Yamato and once in Conqueror but got rammed in GK).

 

Anyway - I've contributed to pushing the topic even more off-course now...

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2 minutes ago, almitov said:

If a DD is chasing me I can kite a long time. If I am pushing a position with CA/CL support and suddenly my backup shows broadside and gets blapped, and the DD yolo-rushes me then... I get killed. I can't turn away before he slams all his torps at my broadside and if I stay nose-in, he'll just torp me from point-blank range. Changing ammo, even with expert loader will take about 13-15s, during which time he can kill me. I have died several times in this exact situation already. A stupid solution is not to count on teammates and play safe at a longer range >> Everyone complains about BBabies staying at 20+km and being useless, yet WG tends to kill any incentive to stay up close in a BB. For me now it looks like - no division >> no BB.

You do not need 20km, just 10km.

Remove enemy DD before you push.

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8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You do not need 20km, just 10km.

This is about the typical range I engage ships from (10km, not 20 :D ). I tend to play all my ships aggressively and at mid to close range, which is the main reason I have high damage stats and low survival rate. 

 

10 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Remove enemy DD before you push.

This is why I push with CA/CL/Gunboat DD support. In randoms however, they often get killed the moment they are spotted and DDs see this as the best moment to rush me - before I can just turn around and flee. What annoys me is that they push so close that I can spot them, but I am rarely able to kill them before they launch torps (since the change).

 

As I mentioned, partial solution for now is to play in a division with competent players that can support the BB better than the average random teammate. Because launching a shell the size of a DD's turret at it does nearly no damage... 

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That is why I said you push after the enemy DD is removed.

As soon as your spotters are sunk, you have to turn around. Enemy DD should be 8+km from you (otherwise they would have been visible before and you could have reacted sooner).

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