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Rosletyne

To Sims or not to Sims?

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I like Sims a lot, despite the problems with visibility.

 

My feeling is that she's probably not worth it at full price, but is probably worth if you can get a decent reduction on her. Stick a decent captain in her (13 point plus, say), and she still does okay, but her real strength is Dynamo - if you don't dig that Op, her value does rather decrease.

 

If you ignore the aspect of captain training, my feeling is that the two best DDs overall at the moment at T7 are Z-39, and Haida, simply because they're altogether better at the vision control thing than Sims is (also, recall that there is that new IJN thing in ST at the moment).

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5 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

(also, recall that there is that new IJN thing in ST at the moment).

I'd expect nothing less than Shiratsuyu's 5.8 km concealment on Yuudachi, so, yeah. Also, provided WG doesn't utterly butcher the ship, it has potential to be popular, because it's a meme, as a premium you can run any captain on it, Shiratsuyu is both reasonably popular and well-performing already (it seems to go toe to toe with Jervis for the #2 spot of T7 tech tree DDs after GM, which is unusual for an IJN torp boat). The concealment on that thing likely is one contributing factor to its success, as it is competitive with T8s and thus likely not too unpleasant when uptiered, compared to other DDs at T7, which was a major factor in how premium T7 DDs in recent times get balanced, with somewhat competitive concealment to make matches as bottom tier more bearable.

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31 minutes ago, GudmundurG said:

I can´t see any Operation Dynamo on the Sims sale page.

It's an operation ingame that can be played in division. It is not specific to Sims, but Sims is the best ship for it.

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11 hours ago, Rosletyne said:

Is the Sims worth it?

 

Need EXP? Like any EXP? You'll love this ship:

shot-18_12.26_23_32.43-0912.thumb.jpg.76b68a5ca2ae7b47fa04953d12052d0a.jpg

 

I've used her for the 12k Free-EXP mission that was there and got 40k in one battle :Smile_trollface:

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Thanks for the comments, everyone. I have now made my decision, and it is to skip the Sims for now. I may get her later, but meanwhile I discovered something more worthwhile to do with my doubloons - I invested them in permanent camos for odd tiered CVs, which are also discounted right now. If and when they are refunded when the rework goes live, I should have enough doubloons for not just the Sims, but something else too. Lo and behold, I found something positive about the rework! Who could have guessed?

 

I did get the Scharnhorst, and bought some port slots with what I had left.

 

10 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Imo, the best crew trainer is a ship you find fun to play and that allows you to get a 19 pt captain to get elite captain exp. And Sims is a case where I'd be reluctant to recommend it. It can be great fun, but only if you accept that the ship has some serious shortcomings and are actually interested in the few things she does reasonably well.

This was really the core of my issue with the Sims. I have seen it in action in Dunkirk, and I know how effective it is there, but ultimately I would want a ship I enjoyed playing instead of just grinding one operation.

 

10 hours ago, Riselotte said:

I mostly would argue Sims is awesome if you play in divs. For solo-play, I'd really rather get the Monaghan or get a different nation, like Z-39, Haida, T-61 or indeed a different ship type like Scharnhorst.

I mostly play solo. Another advantage the Monaghan would have is that it has access to tier 6 operations, and I do play destroyers in them too. But as I said, I'm not getting either right now.

 

9 hours ago, Riselotte said:

We need to be careful now, as there exist more than one ship with Prinz in the name.

I forgot about the Prinz Eugen too. I was referring to Prinz Eitel Friedrich, which could have been a viable alternative to Scharnhorst as a trainer, but I've wanted Scharnhorst too long to pass it up. Plus, Scharnhorst actually existed.

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4 minutes ago, Rosletyne said:

This was really the core of my issue with the Sims. I have seen it in action in Dunkirk, and I know how effective it is there, but ultimately I would want a ship I enjoyed playing instead of just grinding one operation.

It can be effective in randoms... just, never expect huge damage numbers. The main stopping power in form of the torpedoes is pretty crap.

6 minutes ago, Rosletyne said:

I mostly play solo. Another advantage the Monaghan would have is that it has access to tier 6 operations, and I do play destroyers in them too. But as I said, I'm not getting either right now.

Tbh, I'd never take a DD into a T6 OP. I just don't see a point. What you need is firepower and sustain. Cruisers and battleships basically flourish there. DDs typically lack the ability to leave an impact before running out of their small hp pools. Monaghan is more for randoms, where it's a T6 torp boat that gets T8 USN torps. For T6, that's decent. Got it from a Christmas crate. Not too interested in USN DDs, but Monaghan was not too unpleasant to play. Not Shinonome or T-61, but still ok.

10 minutes ago, Rosletyne said:

I forgot about the Prinz Eugen too. I was referring to Prinz Eitel Friedrich, which could have been a viable alternative to Scharnhorst as a trainer, but I've wanted Scharnhorst too long to pass it up. Plus, Scharnhorst actually existed.

Scharnhorst basically is a solid ship. Great in T7 ops too (except Hermes where it is not allowed). Brutal fun in randoms. Prinz Eitel Friedrich has left mixed reviews. Personally I consider it an uncompetitive piece of trash, some like it, but Scharnhorst definitely is the better BB pick. But PEF makes me look at Prinz Eugen and think that that ship actually is a pleasant experience and frankly, I have little respect for the Hipper-class.

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Argh! I'm glad OP that you were able to make your mind up.

 

Me? Still not made up my mind, and time is ticking...

 

Because I'd have to actually buy the Doubloons first I can buy 5,500Dbs for £17.10. I'd spend 3,500 on the Sims and 500 on a perma camo for Ranger. And have 1,500 left over. Not ideal.

 

I already have 355Dbs, having just received 300 from a Santa crate.

 

To get Scharnhorst, Sims, and the perma camo would require an additional 10,295Dbs. So I could buy 10,000Dbs for £30.62. Or...perhaps the Ultimate Treat (12,500Dbs and 30-days Premium WOWS time) for £35.50.

 

But if I wanted to spend that kind of money I would just buy X4: Foundations now, instead of holding out for a later Steam sale.

 

....

 

I actually had around 3500Dbs before Christmas, but spent them all on cheap port slots...no regrets about that, but still...

 

I think I'm going to wait and pray for a 30% coupon.

 

I'm such a tight-walleted procrastinator!

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won the Sims..and still like it. Its fun to Play. just dont expect a OP or High Damage Ship. But having good Games in it is worth so much... because you have to Play it good. 

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On 12/31/2018 at 1:29 PM, Rosletyne said:

Thoughts? Is the Sims worth getting, or should I save my doubloons for something else?

 

Duhhhh I did 110k in Hood, mighty proud, LOL because what happens....

...my div-mate did 180k in Sims... also het murdered TWO Cossacks in one game (not this one).

 

I'd say definately worth it if you like DDs, he thinks it is hilarious. 

 

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10 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

 

Duhhhh I did 110k in Hood, mighty proud, LOL because what happens....

...my div-mate did 180k in Sims... also het murdered TWO Cossacks in one game (not this one).

 

I'd say definately worth it if you like DDs, he thinks it is hilarious. 

 

Well, that's two dumb Cossacks. There's a reason Sims is dead last on average damage among T7 DDs. And while the guns are ok, they are nowhere close to Cossack's gun armament. It's lulzy when you have such games, but I'd caution to sell a ship based on freak incidents.

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28 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Well, that's two dumb Cossacks. There's a reason Sims is dead last on average damage among T7 DDs. And while the guns are ok, they are nowhere close to Cossack's gun armament. It's lulzy when you have such games, but I'd caution to sell a ship based on freak incidents.

Nope, we checked the stats... those weren't two dumb Cossacks (might have been newyear drinking though) ... granted they were two dead Cossacks after meeting Sims.

Yes Sims is last. I don't know why. My div-mate seems to like it, a lot. Mind that premium can also suffer from getting bought by potatoes.

As usual it is probably a case of "if you like the ship or not". I remember KGV... that everybody says is OP. 

 

 1155099515_BoatDD6-8.JPG.4662f4f4a926353dc35cdb7ac2ecd088.JPG

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3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Nope, we checked the stats... those weren't two dumb Cossacks (might have been newyear drinking though) ... granted they were two dead Cossacks after meeting Sims.

Cossack has 5.5 km concealment, smoke + hydro (even if not a Loyang, it's no joke) and 4x2 120 mm guns that have the second highest HE dpm (and third highest AP dpm) of all T8 DDs, only really outperformed by the Akiduck and matching in AP almost the Harekaze, while in HE it is a bit above Benson and Kidd. Cossack has floaty arcs (reason I still prefer Harekaze, together with the awesome HE pen), but the Sims uses USN mortars too. Sims has a good HE dpm for its tier (not best though, Mahan and Haida have it beat, Gadjah Mada and Jervis are close) but nowhere in the same ballpark as a Cossack and while Sims can be insanely agile, Cossack is the second most agile DD at T8 (after Lightning) and with 6.6 km detectability, any Cossack easily can spot the ship first. Whatever the case is, Sims cannot handily defeat a Cossack and major misplays were made if a Sims can beat two Cossacks, even if sequentially.

 

Basically, the Cossack has to be baited into a chase of the Sims, but that relies on the Cossack to be dumb, not on Sims to be good. 

18 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes Sims is last. I don't know why. My div-mate seems to like it, a lot. Mind that premium can also suffer from getting bought by potatoes.

As usual it is probably a case of "if you like the ship or not". I remember KGV... that everybody says is OP. 

 

 1155099515_BoatDD6-8.JPG.4662f4f4a926353dc35cdb7ac2ecd088.JPG

Wanna add WR and number of battles too? It might tell you something.

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5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Cossack has 5.5 km concealment, smoke + hydro (even if not a Loyang, it's no joke) and 4x2 120 mm guns that have the second highest HE dpm (and third highest AP dpm) of all T8 DDs, only really outperformed by the Akiduck and matching in AP almost the Harekaze, while in HE it is a bit above Benson and Kidd. Cossack has floaty arcs (reason I still prefer Harekaze, together with the awesome HE pen), but the Sims uses USN mortars too. Sims has a good HE dpm for its tier (not best though, Mahan and Haida have it beat, Gadjah Mada and Jervis are close) but nowhere in the same ballpark as a Cossack and while Sims can be insanely agile, Cossack is the second most agile DD at T8 (after Lightning) and with 6.6 km detectability, any Cossack easily can spot the ship first. Whatever the case is, Sims cannot handily defeat a Cossack and major misplays were made if a Sims can beat two Cossacks, even if sequentially.

I'd definately agree a Cossack is better. But it tells me the Sims is definately not crap.

 

5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Basically, the Cossack has to be baited into a chase of the Sims, but that relies on the Cossack to be dumb, not on Sims to be good. 

Wanna add WR and number of battles too? It might tell you something.

WR ~50%, varying what we did last... well we did play during holidays. :Smile_trollface:

He has almost NO battles solo, but you can check for yourself. PR well over 1000.

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14 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'd definately agree a Cossack is better. But it tells me the Sims is definately not crap.

6.6 km concealment is basically just about workable. Jervis and Akatsuki have you beat by a couple hundred metres, against the likes of GM, Shiratsuyu, Haida, Z-39 they outspot you easily. The hp pool of the Sims is also nothing special. For solo play, I rather play Akatsuki than Sims, because better ballistics, better fire chance and better torpedoes. If I even want to play T7 DD, because when you get outspotted by an Akizuki by about half a kilometre it's not very fun and as a support ship Sims offers great smokes and defAA, but neither intimidating firepower nor a good set of torps (in contrast Akatsuki can still fire 9 torps every 69 or so seconds, which have great range and are actually lethal when they hit).

 

Sims in randoms basically is a good enabler for team mates, but unless I play div, I'd rather not.

14 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

WR ~50%, varying what we did last... well we did play during holidays. :Smile_trollface:

He has almost NO battles solo, but you can check for yourself. PR well over 1000.

For the Sims, WR is 50% if you round to the nearest 50%. PR of Sims gets inflated by increased base exp modifier, which the ship is famous for. The person in question has few games in other T7 DDs and across the board has not great performance in any DD.

 

And regarding holiday season, that person likely didn't just start playing in holiday season and over the last 180 days their WR averages fluctuated within a margin of only 1.04 percentage points overall. I'm not going to go dissect stats further, but this is at best an average player and while they at least on average aren't a massive burden on their team, one shouldn't pretend that this performance is anything to be proud of. Up to them whether they want to improve or not, but if this was me, I'd rather not have my stats posted on here for comparison.

 

And in no way does it justify the Sims. There are better T7 premiums out there for anything other than AA and Operation Dynamo. Maybe in T7 CB (if it ever was a thing, which I doubt, as it is the Payfast tier), you could see Sims being used due to the smoke (though I'd guess replacing Sims with Flint and taking a Gadjah Mada or Haida is more useful).

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30 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I rather play Akatsuki than Sims

He says that too.

 

But well, first you say Sims is the lowest, and now you talk about "...gets inflated by increased base exp modifier".

i wonder how it is still the lowest then. Mmmmm... 

 

FWIW I think he is more useful than the average Yolo DD, and usually he ends up top 3.

How that is 'average' is beyond me. :Smile_teethhappy:

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Just now, BLUB__BLUB said:

But well, first you say Sims is the lowest, and now you talk about "...gets inflated by increased base exp modifier".

i wonder how it is still the lowest then. Mmmmm... 

Because...

2 hours ago, Riselotte said:

 There's a reason Sims is dead last on average damage among T7 DDs. 

 

36 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

PR of Sims gets inflated by increased base exp modifier, which the ship is famous for.

Those are two different parameters.

3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

FWIW I think he is more useful than the average Yolo DD, and usually he ends up top 3.

How that is 'average' is beyond me. :Smile_teethhappy:

Average stats say he is average. If he ends up there in Sims, then because the increased exp modifier makes it easy to get there.

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2 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Average stats say he is average. If he ends up there in Sims, then because the increased exp modifier makes it easy to get there.

That is at least a plausible explanation. 

However... I think he is then at least best of the rest.

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8 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That is at least a plausible explanation. 

However... I think he is then at least best of the rest.

Or mediocre, but the only person in a ship that gets silly modifier.

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Sims is hard to understand and play but when you know how to do with her, she's very very good and you can carry games. I don't even use Def AA. I prefer to get the speed boost. When I want to dakka, I can use the 12,9km gun range to burn BBs. I can use my 4 awesome smokes to protect my teammates or shoot. With her agility and Vigilance I can easily dodge torps even sitting in my smoke. And I regularly hit torps (9,2 km) then I burn the ships that have Damage con.

In gunfight with other DDs you are quite resistant and your agility allow you to do a lot of dodging. 

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