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A topic borne of desperation

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It is past the time of egos and stuff, I don’t care if I make an [edited]of myself as long as there is even the slightest chance the CV concept can be helped.

 

I have in the past made a large amount of highly wishful and far fetched thinking on concepts for the CV rework, including straightforward but drastic suggestion of measures such as removing all torpedo bombers and solely balancing/designing CV gameplay (at least initially) around the other less dreadful types of bombers. Other examples included separating CV tech trees into smaller escort carriers and larger fleet carriers, which have broad implications including MM fixing and fine tuning. But I digress.

 

Recently I am beginning to follow WG’s line of logic better, keeping the game simple while just playable and interesting enough. And here lies a critical flaw. One of the most difficult yet critical systems in this game, the Vision System, is an Achilles heel in the whole design structure. And the disproportionate effect the CV has on this area was already well known even before the rework, from DD griefing, torpedo spotting, surprise torpedo-insertion on BBs due to planes having stealth range as well, and last but not least, CV sniping using plane stealth. While I cannot make a hasty conclusion on whether stealth and vision system for surface ships is good or bad, though it was copied off WoT systems and not custom-made for naval combat, it certainly was not very compatible with CV gameplay at all.

 

And a critical flaw of the current rework is how few direct improvements, or even adjustments, were made to the way CVs interact with the vision sphere in the game. While torpedo spotting was outright removed, and ship spotting nerfed, the reverse which was plane spotting was not, and in fact as they themselves mentioned in their public address, stealth torping (with TB!) was still a minor “exploit” turned tactic. In more conclusive terms, the very essence of CV gameplay in a strategic or tactical sense which was area and info control aka. ‘Spotting’ was not fixed nor improved into their rework, and CV interaction with the surface sphere in this sense was also outright ignored or shoved aside (just remove their total spotting ability and interaction).

 

And you don’t fix a faulty part by simply removing the part, or completely isolating the part from the rest of the system. It’s just not good practice. In complex systems like this, balancing is also a larger job than just making sure the AA maths and don add up. There’s “qualitative” things too, like fuzzy maths, like capabilities that can’t be simply summarized into numbers, and how actual human thought processes work.

 

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Furthermore, in poetic irony, in their rush to make WoWs, and CV, compatible with consoles, they neglected the zeitgeist of console gameplay, which is a very heady, rushing, flow-based kind of gaming. A confounding mechanic like the vision system is not something a console player would enjoy while they are trying to have fun, they simply can’t be bothered to put in the extra mind-power, and the separate category of mental processes needed for that particular form of thought. Thus, I believe, they will not enjoy getting surprise-rudder insertions by planes materializing out of nowhere (or in reverse, getting jump-scared by a DD suddenly hammering your CV out of nowhere), nor enjoy the game much with ships that adversely rely on the vision system at all, because even on PC it’s a fine dance of managing your pathing and constantly doing distance-tallies and mental notes of what ships are all around you (including enemies). But on console on a big screen it’s just not that kind of experience, if you get this.

 

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So in conclusion, even if the current rework gets the go-ahead, and it is still playable after all, there is still this theoretical danger that WoWs on console will not be very popular, and one of the key reasons could be because of how vision works in this game, and how this game is adversely affected by this hidden factor, just as how CVs were adversely affecting the game due to how their mechanics worked, and this is making the console experience far less than ideal. This is the key danger.

 

The secondary danger is that due to how detached and incompatible (unintegrated) the CV reworked gameplay is from the practical intricate workings of the present surface ship system (such as the example given how all vision related things were just swept under the carpet), that even after 1-2 months of “balancing”, CV gameplay will still be a sore thumb in this game, and a far cry from what some of us in our heart of hearts had dreamed it would bring to WoWs, a breath of fresh air, masterful and creative design, to not just save CV, but save this game, and give it second wind to continue improvements in its very design.

 

(I would like to call for an emergency stop in this rework, and the reasons in writing above is why. I understand I have no authority nor proven knowledge to make such a call but I am doing it shamelessly anyways, because I will shamelessly claim that I as a player love the CV as a concept and what it’s gameplay could have been, and this rework as it is, as a concept, is not something that someone could love. I am incapable of expressing with concise grace exactly why, but it just feels very wrong. So wrong that I am desperate.)

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Beta Tester
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Even if nothing of what I say ever gets through, as usual, at least consider this idea, air-based radar, to give a bit more advanced warning of the inevitable surprise stern insertions incoming. Maybe it can become an idea for a few balancing methods or gimmick ships. Just an idea.

 

Also, in the past I have suggest multiple times, for a tiered vision system instead of the current black-white spotting system. Or even making the game less hinged on vision and spotting. Fixing the game will not just involve CV, but many of its current systems as well which includes vision.

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6 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

CV-Rework sucks and needs to be stopped (I guess).

I mean, everyone knows that, we don't need a book written about it

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39 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

TL;DR?

 

36 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

CV-Rework sucks and needs to be stopped (I guess).

Na, the real TL;DR is WG do whatever the f**k they want and care not for forum whiners since we are only a tiny percentage of their playerbase.#

 

Think back to all the changes, the vast majority go through despite anyone's complaints. 

 

Also I think WG are sneaking in the Concealment "tweaks" as they know people are more salty about CVs, some of us are not stupid WG :cap_viking:

 

 

Happy New Year boys :Smile_honoring:

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Oh right, this

9 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Concealment "tweaks" (..) CVs

Concealment changes will probably require a lot of tweaking & rebalancing

CV changes most definitely needs a lot of tweaking and balancing

 

Why the hell are those 2 being released together? Especially since the influx of planes will completely screw with concealment??!

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8 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Oh right, this

Concealment changes will probably require a lot of tweaking & rebalancing

CV changes most definitely needs a lot of tweaking and balancing

 

Why the hell are those 2 being released together? Especially since the influx of planes will completely screw with concealment??!

WG just love tinkering. They'll say the usual rubbish in their interviews like "we are aware of the problem" or "we need more data". No offense to WG's community staff but I stopped listening to a thing they've said for a long time now as it's always the same generic answers. Might as well have a WG Press Release Bingo Card made up :Smile_trollface:

 

Someone mentioned recently the real test server is actually the live one in 0.8.0 which beggars the question. What's the point of the ST and PT?

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9 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Someone mentioned recently the real test server is actually the live one in 0.8.0 which beggars the question. What's the point of the ST and PT?

"We can't test stuff in test environment" has to be one of my favorite things WG have claimed in the recent history

 

At least get stuff half-balanced before you plan any kind of release instead of just showing middle finger to everyone willing to play the game in the next 4...5 months... if not even longer

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8 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

What's the point of the ST and PT?

 

Ive been wondering this myself. If WG is/was so concerned about the state of CVs, like those recent long posts and videos suggest, then why didnt they in the last 2+ years test different things? Could have tested all the different kind of suggestions from the community. Yet they did nothing. Now all of a sudden, we should buy that they care so much and they only way is a complete rework? Yea right.

 

1 minute ago, wilkatis_LV said:

"We can't test stuff in test environment" has to be one of my favorite things WG have claimed in the recent history

 

Yea. And this one! If that is so - FKKIN SCRAP THE TESTSERVERS.

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9 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Yea. And this one! If that is so - FKKIN SCRAP THE TESTSERVERS.

Test servers have universally sucked d1ck for years, it started with WoT and it hit WoWs just as fast. No one "tests" anything, it is just an even more unbalanced chaotic mess than the live servers.

 

The ST program or testing things on live while not perfect at times atleast give you a more representative look of what things might be.

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Just now, ollonborre said:

Test servers have universally sucked d1ck for years, it started with WoT and it hit WoWs just as fast. No one "tests" anything, it is just an even more unbalanced chaotic mess than the live servers.

 

The ST program or testing things on live while not perfect at times atleast give you a more representative look of what things might be.

WoWS TS are just AFK for flags and the WoT one is just to shoot full gold at everything with T10 stuff no? :cap_haloween:

 

ST status makes me laugh tho. Jump through hoops getting it, devote loads of time testing. Give WG feedback and watch them do what they want anyway :Smile_sceptic:

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Look, Drama Queen give us a thread for the end of the year!

And, as always its a wall of text....

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The main problem with WoWs on console is multiplayer game play.

 

What people with consoles like to do is plopp down on the couch with their friends, kids or spouses at home, get a drink, pick up the controllers and just play.

 

On the same screen.

 

It might work, especially since the screens keep getting bigger and bigger. But I doubt it.

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40 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

The main problem with WoWs on console is multiplayer game play.

 

What people with consoles like to do is plopp down on the couch with their friends, kids or spouses at home, get a drink, pick up the controllers and just play.

 

On the same screen.

 

It might work, especially since the screens keep getting bigger and bigger. But I doubt it.

WoT:C doesn't have split screen support and was doing fine - until WG:CB screwed the pooch and ruined the game...

 

If anything WoWs console should do well as it is a more natural fit for gamepad and slower paced gameplay than tanks.

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