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WindSplitter1

Additional noob questions

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I apologize in advance if I am littering the forums with these questions but learning a different game can be troublesome...

 

Before anything else, though, I must say... this is a frickin awesome game! Had a blast (literally) playing my Kongo vs a Prinz (lost the 1vs1 but I won in "fun", 4 guys witnessed the battle ) It's just awesome to see full Mains and Secondaries from either ships shooting each other! :D

 

With that said... umm..~Le List:

 

1 - I see some BBs can launch torpedoes too. Isn't that... too much?

 

2 - Speaking of which, I'm interested in the Tier VI IJN Mutsu (which can launch them lol) but I have only gone up to Tier V in most lines I'm interested exploring and have no immediate plans to get any higher. So, would you consider "healthy" (skill-wise, considering MM spread, will likely see VIIIs) for me to get one?

 

3 - What exactly is "overmatch" here in WoWS? even if I have a large caliber shell shooting armour plating that is thin, won't it just overpen for 10% dmg?

 

4 - Again about the Prinz, when playing CV, I lost all my air force to its AA. I could no longer support my team but both allies and enemies were still very polite and kind regardless. Which type of ships should I avoid targeting (apart from US which I already know)?

 

5 - I find my Torpedo runs, also in CV, to miss a lot, even when cross dropping against a ship sailing forwards without changing course. How do I point against such targets?

 

6 - Premium and standard, but specially standard, are there any IJN ships whose AA doesn't let you down?

 

7 - About the Yamato... What advice do you have (let's say I just unlocked one)?

 

8 - Still on the Yamato, Are AA skills and equipment (if applicable) worth it on it?

 

9 - I find IJN DDs much better than the US ones but people say US are better? Why? IJN DDs have greater range for instance.

 

10 - Is there permanent camo, like in WoT?

 

 

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Vor 18 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

1 - I see some BBs can launch torpedoes too. Isn't that... too much?

It's very few that can and they are balanced by being weaker in other fields.

Vor 19 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

2 - Speaking of which, I'm interested in the Tier VI IJN Mutsu (which can launch them lol) but I have only gone up to Tier V in most lines I'm interested exploring and have no immediate plans to get any higher. So, would you consider "healthy" (skill-wise, considering MM spread, will likely see VIIIs) for me to get one?

One tier jump should be ok, just don't get a T8 premium at your current level. The mm will be similar to T5.

Vor 20 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

3 - What exactly is "overmatch" here in WoWS? even if I have a large caliber shell shooting armour plating that is thin, won't it just overpen for 10% dmg?

Overmatch happens when the caliber is at least 14.3 times the armor it hits. In that case the shell won't bounce off, no matter at which angle it hits. This mechanic itself has nothing to do with the damage, the shell can still be a pen for 33% damage and even a cita for 100% damage.

Vor 24 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

4 - Again about the Prinz, when playing CV, I lost all my air force to its AA. I could no longer support my team but both allies and enemies were still very polite and kind regardless. Which type of ships should I avoid targeting (apart from US which I already know)?

Prinz, Gneisenau, Lyon, Atlanta, Flint. Some other BBs and many cruisers can have strong AA as well if they are built for it.

Vor 26 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

5 - I find my Torpedo runs, also in CV, to miss a lot, even when cross dropping against a ship sailing forwards without changing course. How do I point against such targets?

It helps to know the speed of other ships, but other than that there is no basic rule and you just need experience by playing more.

Vor 27 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

6 - Premium and standard, but specially standard, are there any IJN ships whose AA doesn't let you down?

Premium ship Kii, and if you put AA module and some captain skills on them, Kongo and the standard cruisers at T7 and higher.

Vor 29 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

7 - About the Yamato... What advice do you have (let's say I just unlocked one)?

Go full tank/concealment build, play at a distance of about 13-14km most of the time, stay mobile to use all 3 turrets and shoot 99.9% AP.

Vor 30 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

8 - Still on the Yamato, Are AA skills and equipment (if applicable) worth it on it?

Not really, though that might change with the CV rework next patch.

Vor 30 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

9 - I find IJN DDs much better than the US ones but people say US are better? Why? IJN DDs have greater range for instance.

IJN DDs are very torpedo focused, and while their torps are extremely strong, they are unreliable. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they miss. Guns are more reliable for damage and the US guns are more useful.

And US DDs get the ability to use DefAA to protect against CVs, IJN DDs can't do much to protect themselves against planes.

Vor 33 Minuten, WindSplitter1 sagte:

10 - Is there permanent camo, like in WoT?

Yes, every premium ship and most ships in higher tiers can have them.

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1 hour ago, WindSplitter1 said:

1 - I see some BBs can launch torpedoes too. Isn't that... too much?

2 - Speaking of which, I'm interested in the Tier VI IJN Mutsu (which can launch them lol) but I have only gone up to Tier V in most lines I'm interested exploring and have no immediate plans to get any higher. So, would you consider "healthy" (skill-wise, considering MM spread, will likely see VIIIs) for me to get one?

3 - What exactly is "overmatch" here in WoWS? even if I have a large caliber shell shooting armour plating that is thin, won't it just overpen for 10% dmg?

4 - Again about the Prinz, when playing CV, I lost all my air force to its AA. I could no longer support my team but both allies and enemies were still very polite and kind regardless. Which type of ships should I avoid targeting (apart from US which I already know)?

5 - I find my Torpedo runs, also in CV, to miss a lot, even when cross dropping against a ship sailing forwards without changing course. How do I point against such targets?

6 - Premium and standard, but specially standard, are there any IJN ships whose AA doesn't let you down?

7 - About the Yamato... What advice do you have (let's say I just unlocked one)?

8 - Still on the Yamato, Are AA skills and equipment (if applicable) worth it on it?

9 - I find IJN DDs much better than the US ones but people say US are better? Why? IJN DDs have greater range for instance.

10 - Is there permanent camo, like in WoT?

  1. No. Everyone can know which BB have torps and act accordingly.
  2. No. She is one of the weaker Tier VI BB and needs an experienced player.
  3. Overmatch means penetration, no matter the effective armor thickness (angling). Since the effective armor is used for setting of the fuse, the fuse is activated.
  4. Depends on your ship and the Tier of the enemy. Prinz has strong AA, but she is not that challenging when sitting in a Tier VIII CV and Prinz got warmed up a bit by HE shells.
  5. Practice, training room or CoOp can help.
  6. Yubari
  7. Practice more
  8. Depends on your playstile and what you find challenging.
  9. Depends on playstile and Tier. The high Tier US DD are very good. The low and mid Tier US DD are good DD hunter and have a very strong smoke that works well with teamplay.
  10. Yes.

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2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

1 - I see some BBs can launch torpedoes too. Isn't that... too much?

It's not as it's taken into their balance.

Just remember that Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Mutsu and Kii are the torp BBs and you'll be fine

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

2 - Speaking of which, I'm interested in the Tier VI IJN Mutsu (which can launch them lol) but I have only gone up to Tier V in most lines I'm interested exploring and have no immediate plans to get any higher. So, would you consider "healthy" (skill-wise, considering MM spread, will likely see VIIIs) for me to get one?

If you're at t5 - t6 isn't that far off.

 

But if you're not in a hurry to get her - actually playing t6 so you get the feel from the MM, or maybe even getting the Nagato (as Mutsu is a Nagato class BB - just an older version of that) to get the feel for the ship might make for a better gameplay experience for you

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

3 - What exactly is "overmatch" here in WoWS? even if I have a large caliber shell shooting armour plating that is thin, won't it just overpen for 10% dmg?

Overmatching is when your shell can go through the armour plate regardless of angle. It's calculated as caliber divided by 14.3 (always rounded down)

 

Normally shells auto-bounce at 60 degrees away from perpendicular, but with overmatch they'd still go through

 

For example the 356mm guns of Kongo can overmatch 356 / 14.3 = 24.8.... = 24mm armour. Kongo herself has 19mm bow plating, this means that regardless of angle Kongos AP shells will go through her bow armour. This is why in low & mid tier BBs you tank by angling your belt not going straight bow in :cap_like:

 

Meanwhile overpenetrations are your shell simply entering and then exiting the target. 2 ways of this happening - either your AP shells fuse didn't arm (target was too thinly armoured) or your shell was traveling so quickly it just passed through the enemy ship before it could explode

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

4 - Again about the Prinz, when playing CV, I lost all my air force to its AA. I could no longer support my team but both allies and enemies were still very polite and kind regardless. Which type of ships should I avoid targeting (apart from US which I already know)?

CVs & AA are getting a full rework in about 2-ish weeks, so I wouldn't invest too much time in them right now

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

5 - I find my Torpedo runs, also in CV, to miss a lot, even when cross dropping against a ship sailing forwards without changing course. How do I point against such targets?

Mostly prediction & luck. Torpedoes do have some spread in them, as well as the targets ability to change speed and / or movement direction

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

6 - Premium and standard, but specially standard, are there any IJN ships whose AA doesn't let you down?

Standard - high tier cruisers if spec'd for it.

Premium - t8 BB Kii

 

But again, all of this is likely to change with the mid-January patch

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

7 - About the Yamato... What advice do you have (let's say I just unlocked one)?

Watch some tutorials

Don't expose your side, or at least do it as rarely as possible

Fire AP as long as it's not a bow-on GK or a DD that you're shooting at

Just like on all BBs - don't underestimate concealment builds (also building tanky helps a lot)

 

Something like that

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

8 - Still on the Yamato, Are AA skills and equipment (if applicable) worth it on it?

Right now - not particularly. In next patch - we'll have to see, probably still no

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

9 - I find IJN DDs much better than the US ones but people say US are better? Why? IJN DDs have greater range for instance.

IJN DDs (the Shimakaze line) are torpedo DDs, but their torpedoes are spotted from the moon. The Harugumo line's much stronger, but they are pure gunboats with some torp capability from t8 and up.

Meanwhile US DDs are gunboats which (especially at high tiers) still get very capable torpedoes

 

2 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

10 - Is there permanent camo, like in WoT?

From... t6 up I think. Also for all premium ships, and then some even camos.

 

You'd have to buy it for each ship in the exterior -> camouflages section

 

But don't fall for the "cheap" gold camos like Type59, those still are single use. Permacamos prices start at 1000 doubloons

 

 

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Am 29.12.2018 um 14:54, WindSplitter1 sagte:

1 - I see some BBs can launch torpedoes too. Isn't that... too much?

No, it's just right. If you're in them.
 

Zitat

2 - Speaking of which, I'm interested in the Tier VI IJN Mutsu

She's only got two per side and the reload is quick but the firing angles are dismal. So you can only fire them while showing all of your broadside. Also the armour is very squishy in general.

 

All of this combined means you don't get to use them very often because you usually get obliterated before you can close in. They are mostly relegated to ruin the day of idiots who rush you while forgetting about them. If you're lucky.

 

Much better to grind the Gneisenau, which you don't even have to pay real money for.

 

Or to buy a Scharnhorst, even though that's not easy to play either.

 

Zitat

6 - Premium and standard, but specially standard, are there any IJN ships whose AA doesn't let you down?

 

 

With the upcoming carrier rework in th next update, all of that is completely academic.

 

Zitat

9 - I find IJN DDs much better than the US ones but people say US are better? Why? IJN DDs have greater range for instance.

 

 

Just try killing a US or Russian DD, or contesting a cap which holds one, and you will soon find out. Also British ones, at least those of T VII and above.

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18 hours ago, WindSplitter1 said:

I apologize in advance if I am littering the forums with these questions but learning a different game can be troublesome...

 

Before anything else, though, I must say... this is a frickin awesome game! Had a blast (literally) playing my Kongo vs a Prinz (lost the 1vs1 but I won in "fun", 4 guys witnessed the battle ) It's just awesome to see full Mains and Secondaries from either ships shooting each other! :D

 

With that said... umm..~Le List:

 

1 - I see some BBs can launch torpedoes too. Isn't that... too much?

 

 

They're lucky if the launchers don't get destroyed before closing the distance. Pretty much anything can knock them out with HE at any range.

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Recently started playing Gneisenau which has torps.  Don't get too excited about it.  Firstly it launches a salvo of only three fish at a time which is hardly torp spamming material, secondly it has tissue paper side armour and really suffers from being hit by retaliatory torpedoes if it closes to torp launching range of other torp carrying ships and thirdly, having only 6 main guns of huge calibre it is best suited to standing off and sniping rather than getting into close combat.  I'm not sure why the Kriegsmarine opted to have the tubes installed when the ship  was refitted.  I suspect that in real life it was because this ship was originally more concerned with sinking unarmed merchantmen than entering combat with heavily armed naval vessels.  It's fast but I usually get sunk if I get too close to DDs.  Of course that's also because I'm a reckless and less skilled player! :cap_fainting:

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If you use her for sniping, you are misplaying the ship.

Number of guns and dispersion make it necessary to get close to the enemy.

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On 12/29/2018 at 2:54 PM, WindSplitter1 said:

2 - Speaking of which, I'm interested in the Tier VI IJN Mutsu (which can launch them lol) but I have only gone up to Tier V in most lines I'm interested exploring and have no immediate plans to get any higher. So, would you consider "healthy" (skill-wise, considering MM spread, will likely see VIIIs) for me to get one?

I like the Mutsu a lot, but I'm an IJN player, so I like almost every IJN ship. The Mutsu has torps, but she has trouble to use them. She can only launch the torpdes to the side with very bad angles, so you would show a lot broadside. Beside that the armor is weak and the citadell easy to hit. That makes the torpdeos kinda bad. The only strength are the guns, which can overmatch a lot

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Vor 3 Stunden, Tatsfield sagte:

Recently started playing Gneisenau which has torps.

You have really not understood that ship.

It's an up-close-and-personal brawler extraordinaire.

Sitting back and sniping is the worst thing you could ever do in a Gneisenau. Completely ineffectual, with the few main guns, horrible dispersion, super tanky armour and powerful secondaries.

 

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Vor 3 Stunden, Tatsfield sagte:

Recently started playing Gneisenau which has torps.

You have really not understood that ship.

It's an up-close-and-personal brawler extraordinaire.

Sitting back and sniping is the worst thing you could ever do in a Gneisenau. Completely ineffectual, with the few main guns, horrible dispersion, super tanky armour and powerful secondaries.

 

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8 hours ago, Tatsfield said:

having only 6 main guns of huge calibre it is best suited to standing off and sniping rather than getting into close combat.

Whilst I'm pretty bad with BBs, even I can tell you're probably doing it wrong:

  • Similarly to things like Bismarck and Tirpitz, the main guns struggle to hit anything at range - you have to get close(ish) to stand any chance of doing decent damage.
  • Just because you have torps doesn't mean they're your primary source of damage - view them as a valuable bonus if someone messes up and allows you to nail them.
  • You have excellent secondaries for the tier - they'll help discourage a lot of DDs from getting too close, especially with a bit of specialisation in that direction.
  • You have turtleback armour - that works best at shorter ranges; sure, you'll take pen damage, but you're very hard to citadel from closer range.
  • Basically, everything about the ship is optimised for brawling (armour and weapons); the hard bit is judging how and when to close with the enemy, and when to go dark (this is where I regularly mess up).

Speaking as a DD main, a Gneis at range is no threat, and something to be farmed at leisure; a Gneis driven aggressively (and well - this is the hard part) is a distinctly formidable opponent...

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18 hours ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

You have really not understood that ship.

It's an up-close-and-personal brawler extraordinaire.

Sitting back and sniping is the worst thing you could ever do in a Gneisenau. Completely ineffectual, with the few main guns, horrible dispersion, super tanky armour and powerful secondaries.

 

OK I'll persevere with close up but I had noticed that the GN is very vulnerable to torps.  I also run the Bayern which can take torp after torp and repair, can fire eight shells close up as against the GNs six.  Even the ship description of the GN says that it has thin side armour. so my take was that it has very high velocity flat trajectory main guns which I find very accurate and the shell size is large so a few hits are very telling.  But since I'm getting very strong contrary advice, I'll give the GN a go close up and personal and see if I can get the results that you are suggesting.  Thanks for taking the trouble to advise. :Smile_Default:

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14 hours ago, Verblonde said:

Whilst I'm pretty bad with BBs, even I can tell you're probably doing it wrong:

  • Similarly to things like Bismarck and Tirpitz, the main guns struggle to hit anything at range - you have to get close(ish) to stand any chance of doing decent damage.
  • Just because you have torps doesn't mean they're your primary source of damage - view them as a valuable bonus if someone messes up and allows you to nail them.
  • You have excellent secondaries for the tier - they'll help discourage a lot of DDs from getting too close, especially with a bit of specialisation in that direction.
  • You have turtleback armour - that works best at shorter ranges; sure, you'll take pen damage, but you're very hard to citadel from closer range.
  • Basically, everything about the ship is optimised for brawling (armour and weapons); the hard bit is judging how and when to close with the enemy, and when to go dark (this is where I regularly mess up).

Speaking as a DD main, a Gneis at range is no threat, and something to be farmed at leisure; a Gneis driven aggressively (and well - this is the hard part) is a distinctly formidable opponent...

Thanks for your advice.  I'll give the GN a go at close quarter work and see if it fares better.  My experience ran counter to what you said but that may well be down to my poor skippering rather than the ship.   It's just funny that I found the ship much more fragile close up than its predecessor, the Bayern. But it's certainly worth giving it another go and seeing if I can improve its performance.

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4 hours ago, Tatsfield said:

I'll give the GN a go at close quarter work and see if it fares better. 

Suggest not going *too* close - you still want to have a chance of being able to react to incoming torps. FWIW (and bearing in mind I'm rubbish in BBs), I tend to keep half an eye on my secondary range indicator on the mini-map, and try and arrange matters such that targets are just inside that, remembering to ctrl-click on whoever you want your secondaries to focus on.

 

There seem to be (broadly-speaking) two approaches to 'how to Gneis'; the more effective one, that I totally haven't been able to get the hang of, seems to be to build mainly for survival, and rely on your main guns to do maximum damage; the more fun one, which is perhaps less effective, is to focus to a degree on your secondaries, which I'm erring towards (and it works pretty well in Ops, which is a consideration) - I get a bit confused between my T7 and T8 KM BB builds, but I *think* my Gneis has the secondary range module, as well as BFT and AFT on her captain (soft secondary build though, as I haven't got manuals, and spent the points on hiding/surviving skills).

 

I would really talk to some people who can actually produce results with Gneis though - I mess up too frequently to be a reliable source of good info! I'm too prone to playing her like a really tubby DD...

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Vor 6 Stunden, Tatsfield sagte:

OK I'll persevere with close up but I had noticed that the GN is very vulnerable to torps.  I also run the Bayern which can take torp after torp and repair,

I think that's just an impression you might have gotten from playing lower tier opponents.

 

All BBs are more or less vulnerable to torps and Bayern is no exception. Torp damage reduction is 19% vs 22% on the Gneisenau.

Bayern is a fair bit smaller with 200m less turning circle. I'd not necessarily call her "more agile" since the rudder shift is roughly in the same ball park, though I could see the argument you have an easier time avoiding torpedo hits in the first place. But 'take hit after hit and just repair' - neither my own experience nor the specifications seem to really bear that out. Action and cooldown times of damage control and repair party are the same, and the maximum amount of health recovered by the repair party is a bit higher on Gneisenau because as far as I recall, it's proportional to the total hitpoint pool, as is the damage over time inflicted by fire/flooding.

 

The one thing that comes to my mind to possibly have created that impression is the matchmaking, which means you get pitched against lesser opponents on Tier VI than Tier VII, and some of their torpedoes just do less damage. MinekazeAcasta and Monaghan have fairly wimpy torps and in the Tier VI operations, you also tend to meet even lower tier DDs whose fish do even less damage. But on the whole - better just not catch any in the first place. Resilience against torpedo hits only really goes up significantly in the high tiers.

 

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